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Posted: 6/5/2003 1:46:21 PM EDT
GMM is CHL unfriendly. I just learned that they do not want any weapons in their parking lot. And they apparently have the backing of the Grapevine Police. This is a quote from theTexas State Rifle Association's site. You can find this under the Concealed Handgun Info tab under the Businesses Reported Prohibiting Concealed Handgun Licenses link.


ps. additional note concerning Grapevine Mills Mall and surrounding perimeter stores. I forgot that Mill Corporation bans CHL legally, and upon seeing the signs at the mall entrances, asked a security guard to bring out a manager so that I could complain and give them a copy of the nice letter from TSRA website. Instead I was surrounded by the police in the parking lot walkway and after writing down my auto plate, all my personal information from the driver's license, and running me up on their computer, notified me that I was in violation of carrying concealed in the parking lot and requested that I leave the private property immediately. Even though the signs are only at the mall entrances, the Grapevine Police told me the intent of the management is to ban CHL all the way out to the public streets, and has a police office in the mall to enforce it. There are other businesses sharing the mall parking lots (such as the AMC theater who does not have signs banning CHL) that will not lose patrons' business because according to Tom Perales (security chief) and the Grapevine Police on site, "the premises definition that allows CHL to carry on the sidewalks of public places do not pertain to private property such as this mall sidewalks and parking lots." Since the management has the Grapevine Police backing them concerning the enforcement of banning CHL all the way out to the public streets, one cannot keep a pistol in a lockbox in the car parked outside in the parking lots. 

You might want to also notify all the management of the stores inside and outside perimeter the Grapevine Mills Mall complex of the litigation perils (transfer of responsibility) of having their store under the Mills Corporation policy of banning CHL. Another idea is to have a few hundred to possibly a thousand customers per day specifically going to the manager's office and security office requesting shoulder-to-shoulder armed escort to their cars, saying that they will return the merchandise immediately if they cannot comply with the request of an armed escort. Hundreds of people per day returning merchandise will get the notice of the vendor/store tenants of the mall and possibly get the CHL ban removed. 

Grapevine Mills Tel (972)724-4910 Fax (972)724-4920 

Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:48:01 PM EDT
I forgot to add,

FUCK 'EM!
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 2:25:04 PM EDT


Let's start making some phone calls and lodge a complain.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 2:50:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 2:51:41 PM EDT by Energizer]
That's fucked up! no signs, not illegal.

Since it is public access private property, like a restaurant, I think the sidewalk & parking lot rules apply...
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:03:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bung:
I forgot to add,

FUCK 'EM!



yep
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:05:48 PM EDT
Those signs are hard to see, with 5 or 6 doors wide its hard to see the signs on the sides. I believe they are on tan background with green letters. I live 15 minutes from there & do know what you mean. I wondered why they had no sporting goods stores in the store, until I saw the sign. Don't think they can apply to the street or parking lot...

Ill second the above reply....

Prosise
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:17:01 PM EDT
I think if they want to keep guns out of the parking lot they have to post the parking lot. I have never seen a sign at the entrance of the parking lots. Also, I've gone into Sun and Ski from their exterior entrance and it is not posted.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:34:47 PM EDT
There ARE sporting goods stores in that mall...

Also, regarding the signs with tan background with green letters: don't they have to be a certain color? (white & black)
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:48:42 PM EDT
I know Bass Pro/Outdoor World is right next to GMM, but is it in the same parking log? That's the only store that I *really* like up there anyways...
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:58:16 PM EDT
While I wholely disagree with the policy, I am aware that the GMM parking lot tends to be a congregation point for "cruisers" and other "hanger outers".
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:05:03 PM EDT


If I go to that mall, I WILL carry mine. I'll take NO chances. If caught, the worst is they kick me out.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:12:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 5:16:10 PM EDT by Johnphin]
www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0003000.html#pe006.30.06

Above is the link to the relevent section of Texas CHL law, section 30.06.

While I'm not lawyer, it would seem that in order to be in violation of the law:

1. You carry a handgun under the terms of your CHL onto someone's property who has not consented.

AND

2. You have been given written or oral notice by someone in apparant authority that you are not allowed to carry there. OR Upon having notice, you fail to leave.

What this means:
If you had not been told that it was illegal, you could carry a handgun in the parking lot. It only becomes illegal if they tell you to leave and you don't.

As for having the handgun locked in the car in the trunk, it would appear that that is perfectly legal, as long as you have not been given notice otherwise. It would appear that the 30.06 sign is not effective notice, as that law states that it is illegal to carry the gun under your CHL. Having a gun in the trunk of your car has nothing to do with a CHL, so therefore the 30.06 sign does not apply.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:27:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johnphin:
I know Bass Pro/Outdoor World is right next to GMM, but is it in the same parking log? That's the only store that I *really* like up there anyways...



The Bass Pro Shop is across the street. I don't think they have the same policies as the mall. It'd be unreasonable to do that since they sell both firearms and ammunition and have a shooting range inside.

mm
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:18:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Energizer:
There ARE sporting goods stores in that mall...

Also, regarding the signs with tan background with green letters: don't they have to be a certain color? (white & black)



I thought the same thing but apparently not.

"A legal trespass sign that bans the carrying of licensed concealed handguns in Texas must be posted as above. The lettering is to be in one inch block letters, contrasting colors, in two languages, with the specific wording shown above. A sign made according to these specifications will be almost three square feet in size."
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:23:50 PM EDT
I will never go there and buy anything.

Fuck em!
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 10:10:24 PM EDT
I forget the name of the place, but I bought a pair of Nike sandals about 4-5 years ago from a sporting goods store in that mall (and it was not just a shoe store). I wonder if they are still there...
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:29:59 PM EDT
this mall blows anyway.. it's so overrun by punk kids dropped off by their parents who use it as free daycare it's prolly a good thing to not be armed there.

so besides being a genuine violation of our chl rights, what's the problem with having that place off limits to cc. or is the idea to take a stand here to keep every other place from randomly inventing it's own version of the law?

just curious.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:44:24 PM EDT
Never noticed a sign at BPS. I stay away from GMM because of the above mentioned issue.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 8:55:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 7:12:03 AM EDT by RenegadeX]
I saw the signs shortly after it opened, have never been back. Thought it was common knowledge.

If they want to extend 30.06 to the parking lot, they need to move the signs to the parking lot entrances.

Of course, you can still carry long arms, and you can still have your handgun, as long as it is not on or about your person.

This has nothing to do with Bass Pro - two completely different places.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 8:29:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johnphin:

As for having the handgun locked in the car in the trunk, it would appear that that is perfectly legal, as long as you have not been given notice otherwise. It would appear that the 30.06 sign is not effective notice, as that law states that it is illegal to carry the gun under your CHL. Having a gun in the trunk of your car has nothing to do with a CHL, so therefore the 30.06 sign does not apply.



I agree. If my handgun is locked in the trunk of my car it is legal even with no CHL. How would they know it was there?
How could they ban concealed carry in the parking lot? That can't apply as being on the premises can it? It's a public area of private property, like the parking lot of a bar- right?
There are other, friendlier places to shop, and hell, I didn't like it even before I heard about this crap. Let 'em keep the kids.
Sounds like they are trying to stretch the law further than it was intended.
Jim
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