Signed up.  I’ve never shot a match before.

Time to go shopping I reckon.

I’ve got a number of different systems for holding mags and shells.

Reading the event loadout requirements is very helpful:  https://www.ar15.com/forums/Hometown/APC-Firearms-Qualifications-Basic/69-647751/#top

From that, i have chosen a battle belt style setup that will hold my handgun, two ar mags, 3 pistol mags, and 12 shotgun shells. That will stay out of the way when prone or kneeling, while giving easy access to what I will need for the qualifier and two gun match.

If we were doing just a handgun match after the qualification portion, I would just run a competition style belt and holster that is a little faster, but it’s a tradeoff to carry reloads for different weapons.

That also dictates what guns im bringing. A recce AR setup with bipod for prone, with the ability to engage targets at the specified distances.  A semi auto shotgun with ghost rings, and a handgun I feel comfortable with running the various scenarios.

I took today to have a practice run.  I was fine with the handgun.  The wads made a mess at 15 yards, but the buck pattered fine.  It took a while to sight in my new 1-4x at 100 yards, and im really rusty at it,  with some groups im not proud of.

I appreciate the info. However, I was just being a smart ass. I meant to imply I was currently carrying everything in a Giant bag.

I was more curious about gear requirements.  Shooting with a PC is much different than shooting with a chest rig or just a belt.

I’ll have a RDS equipped rifle, a MRDS equipped pistol, and a borrowed shotgun with unknown sighting system. Probably a belt. Maybe a PC for fun.

Bipods are a no-go for the qual...at least according to the rules in the link you posted.

Literacy fail. Guess ill take that off then.

Thanks for pointing that out man.

Can we just mag dump the target instead of applying marksmanship?

Only if you yell Leroy Jenkins first.

That shouldn’t be a problem...

After my 100yd practice run, that might be a more viable strategy for me. It will look like I'm patterning a shotgun. I’m as steady as Marion Barry lately.

I mean, I’m pretty sure you already set the precedent for that, so I’d say - yes.

Registered.

Working on it SGT Airborne!

PLFs all day today, two tons of fun.

Finally got the green light to go. Registered.

I’m loading up to leave tomorrow and stay the night before there in Lexington.

Im looking forward to the range time with you fine folks.

One quick question,  

Are we meeting on the northern or southern rifle range?  Where should we park?

out of staters ok?

(I was in Richmond on Jan 20 )

The NCO in me needs to know. Are meeting at 0900...or starting, gear on, ready to go, at 0900?

Do I need to be 30 mins early to get my shit ready to go?

Good shoot today, nice meeting you all. I look forward to next time.

Side note:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/hometown/Hite-Hollow-monopolized-by-a-class-this-morning-Is-our-community-really-this-selfish-and-obnoxious-/24-648035/?r=7136309&page=1&anc=7136309#i7136309

Great event. The planning and effort that went into it are very much appreciated.

Agreed. Thank you all for all of your hard work and preparation. One of the smoothest and safest qualifications I have ever ran through. I enjoyed meeting everyone and am looking forward to the next event.

Someone has their non-tacticrap panties in a wad.

THANK YOU!

Sincerely, thank you to the APC, and to each and every person that was there and made the day such a pleasure. I really enjoyed meeting all of you, and I appreciate all of the instruction and camaraderie.

I really learned a few things about myself, my skill level, and what works.  It was an eye opening experience, and I honestly believe that every single man should do this. It's a great way to get a better mindset, handle on marksmanship, fitness, and most importantly, that there are very nice, dedicated individuals that are generous with their time and talents.

I am looking forward to the next event, and I hope everyone made it home safe and sound.

-Tracy

Post your After Action Take Aways here too!

1.  The self induced stress of having to shoot for a score, having a shot clock or shooting in front of others, brings out training and equipment issues.

2.  Positional shooting requires practice.

AAR:

1) should had a posted group sign

2) too much “tacicrap” gear

3) wasted too many resources

Seriously though, I thought the qual went really well. Good targets and stands. Only thing I did not like was the prone shooting (laying down hill/shooting up hill).

The drills and 2 gun stuff was fun. Given the range circumstances and that we were sharing it (*just not with Elmer), it went smooth. Good training.

Thanks again to those who planned it, I know they don’t get planned/ran on their own.

- Shooting prone with armor (which I don't do much) requires adjustments to your setup you use normally.

- "standing" in an informal manner doesn't mean freehand. I wish I'd thought to use a brace, like a pillar. I've noticed this in 2 gun competition, but it's not drilled into me yet, as I'm pretty new to the sport. As a bonus, ideally it trains you to find cover, as well as steadying the rifle.

- I do not normally shoot short distances (15yd) with rifles. POI is different that close depending on zero, so I embarrassingly missed some close in paper hit areas while having no problem with longer range ones.

- I have been told all your mags should face the same direction. A few months ago a Cola Warrior told me to have pistol mags face benis and rifle mags (the way I like them) facing back. I like this setup better.

- I'm continuously reminded fundamentals carry over any time I do APC/CW/2Gun. I'm never the best shooter, but I often do things better than I think I would. If you only have access to 25 and 50yd ranges, don't worry. Just practice on improving. When you get a chance to try fun stuff, you'll do okay. Obviously practicing things as they are is the best, but if you can't... any practice helps.

- Anyone who hates on SAO Sig Sauers is dumb, because they are amazing.

- I need a Benelli M4

- When you get a bunch of arfcommers together, there's always plenty of ammo, nice guns and good guys.

But, but, but...my DA/SA P226 is just as good.  I'll keep telling myself that.

I'm a 1911 lover and both of those triggers I tried were insanely amazing. I don't need another gun but Holy crap

I have a stock P226 and P229 (both non railed German guns) and the factory triggers (non SRT) are actually decent on DA. They're almost even/consistent like a revolver's pull.

AAR:

1. Cardio.  I definitely dislodged some bacon grease, and used up most of the oxygen on the 100yd line. I came in knowing I would be the least fit person there.  I gave it my all, but when your body doesn’t cooperate, it’s a significant negative.  I am far from a soldier, and I don’t think I will ever keep up, but I want to improve as much as possible. Thank you all for the encouragement.
2. Foot ware.  I wore tennis shoes.  I lost footing twice, once during the buddy drag, once climbing the bank.  More aggressive hiking boots would have likely prevented the problems, sprains, and wasted time.
3. Retention. The bungee mag pouches worked fine for rifle mags.  Open pouches ones without a magnet or pressure let my pistol mags fly.  The Nylon pistol holster wasn’t ideal.  The stretch shotgun loops were OK.
4. Weapon zero. I failed to check rifle zero prior to the session.  On the initial qualification, I was shooting 6-12” low. It had a significant impact on everything.  Adjusting the zero between live fire exercises was effective. But it took time. By the end of the day, I was scoring hits reliably.  I wish I would have rerun the rifle qualification at the end.
5. Sight picture.  Unsupported prone caused me to mis the eye relief window and I spent a lot of time looking at black or distorted images in the scope. I have to learn to compensate for that better.
6. Ears. Using active earmuffs made the day far more enjoyable. I could clearly hear all instructions, conversations, etc, yet had great hearing protection.
7. Load carrying.  I found the simple “war belt” with shoulder harness was comfortable all day, easy to work with, and did not impact going prone at all. I intend to refine that setup.
8. Rifle speed.  I found my typical grip on the fore end, closer to the mag, let me tuck my chicken wings in well. But the full length of a 16” barrel, with a full length rail, made the gun lead more like a long shotgun.  Moving between multiple targets was therefore not as fast or precise as I would like.
9. Front sight.  I went with a CZ75 with solid black target rears,  red light pipe front.  It allowed me to focus on the front sight under stress and take much better shots.  This became very apparent to me after running 100yds+, and shooting those 25yd targets.  My heart was pounding, but I was able to tag all of the targets with only a few misses.  That bright red front sight was instrumental.

Past the AAR:

I really enjoyed the environment everyone created. It was safe, responsible, and fun.  

I liked shooting some of the interesting firearms you all brought during the down time. I especially liked the 329PD, the West German 220, and Benelli M4. A simple “try this out” range day where everyone brings something cool would be a blast. Thank you for letting me try some great guns.

The guys that spent time teaching, giving advice, and some excellent personal instruction... wow!  Thank you. I not only learned some new things, but it has me looking at things differently, especially adapting to the environment, and making up for personal or gear shortcomings quickly.  

And. Thank you Ben for pulling everything together and running the event.

Esstac is what you seek.

I was in a bullseye club at an indoor range for a few years.  The other shooters turned me on to single action guns with 2lb or so triggers.  The short reset and clean breaks make the handgun.  Now, the current trend of flat triggers is up for debate. I think I operate curved triggers a little more instinctively.  Flats take me a mag or two to get used to.  Also, those long slide sight pictures are easier.  Black target sights too.  The more of those elements you pull together, the better they shoot for me.

A few guns that I Personally find are the most accurate:

Sig P226 X and Legion series.
CZ 75 Tactical sport and shadow 2s.
Smith and Wesson Model 41, PC 929
Higher end 1911s (Dan Wesson, Upper model Kimber, Para, STI.)

My top two are the X6 and Shadow2.

You totally sold me on those today:

I think a Legion is in my future.

I'm scared of X mag costs and also I'd like a standard holster for doing competition.  It's funny, I hate DA/SA Sigs and I love SA (read 1911s).

So now that everyone hates me....I went with Glock. It's fine. Cheap mags, cheap guns, very reliable, great aftermarket support, etc.

SAO with 15+ is my wheelhouse, GD be dammed. I don't care if you can train to be as good as me with a ____ I really like this style of pistol and action. Couldn't justify it before today though. So... yeah

Well I'm glad we could hang out and swap cool stuff but to be fair you got off cheaper than me.

The Mastershop Xs are harder and harder to come by, especially under $4k. I used mine for some competitions, but the fear of breaking it curtailed it as parts get harder to find, especially on 6” versions. Mags were nuts, but they finally started making them again and the price dropped to like $60.  Still, I have it as a gun I put fewer rounds through now, and switched to the Shadow.

The Legion was an EDC and my nightstand gun for the longest. The 18rd mecgar mags are cheap and work perfectly. It’s very accurate and you don’t need to do anything out of the box.  You can carry it, nightstand it, and compete with it, and be really happy.  It’s tough as nails too. They did everything right with the SAO Legions.

For a straight target gun, I hear the new P210s are stunningly good too.

Had a great time thanks Ben whiskers and Tim for setting everything up and the instruction.

I think the constant exercise over the last 9 months is paying off. My heart rate is not going crazy like it used to when I run around or whatever. I think between the hikes and everything this has been the biggest improvement in my skills. I’m still lighter with my armor than I was and have been doing almost all of my cardio exercise with them on. Was a good test to see how exercise and stress affected shooting. Not at all the same as standing or sitting in a shooting bay and shooting at leisure.

As far as gear it was my first time actually shooting in armor and took a little getting used to. I feel pretty comfortable at this point, just need to remember to adjust the stock position slightly. I used a battle belt I’ve had for a while for reloads and pistol which was too bulky. It got the job done, but I’m in the process of building a more simplified setup.  If I had the appropriate mag pouches I would have use that.  My rifle is really growing on me. Both eyes open I feel like a cyborg with the 3x acog. Completely functional for shooting up close and far. I have an astigmatism so the Acogs reticle is super crisp compared to any red dot.  

My pistol skills are crap. I shot the rifle and shotgun fine, but I need to do some work on pistol fundamentals.  Kind of sad whiffing a target right in front of you multiple times. I’d be interested in some sort of training tailored to getting my pistol on target. I think an rmr is in my future as well.

Overall great day, great weather and people.

Not sure where you live, but if you ever want some pistol coaching, let me know. I shot next to you on the line, and wasn’t able to watch you actually firing. There’s probably just a couple things you can adjust or work on that will really improve your pistol shooting.

That would be great, appreciate the offer. I live in Alexandria.

I’m in Leesburg. I’ll pm you later.

My quick AAR:

Excellent work by Ben, Tim, Whiskers and anyone else I missed who was involved in setting this up. It’s great to be able to participate in something like this.

I don’t think it could have been any faster once we got all the target stands and parts.  I’ve been a part of numerous military and police quals and even a few classes.  I was impressed with how everyone paid attention and kept things moving, especially considering this was a first time for several guys.  Well done to all.

My top two takeaways:

1. The rounds impact wherever the dot is when the trigger breaks. Put the dot where you want the rounds to go. In this case, the 8 ring or better.  Sounds stupid, but I was aiming for my normal POA (high in the chest box) my first go, which put rounds from the hundred in the 7 ring and up.

You should also aim for your own target.

2.Pistol MRDS is a game changer.  You have to put in the work initially, but it makes longer shots easy. Especially when you get old and the front sight is just a blackish area with points.


It’s inspiring to be around so many great Americans, and a pleasure to see there are still dedicated and competent men in this nation.

And then there’s the greatest thing I saw all day.

Attached File

The group on your target proved this point.  Looked like something I would do at 7 yrds, slow fire, no stress.

Tim’s target did look good...but a few of us saw him bust the whistle/time limit tho. Shame shame.

DQ’d  

“I’ve never seen a stopwatch in a gunfight.”
    - Clint Smith

“The most important lesson I learned from those proficient gunfighters was the winner of a gunplay usually was the man who took his time.”
    - Wyatt Earp

“In battle, the only bullets that count are those that hit.”
    - Theodore Roosevelt

Clint Smith quote...well played good, sir. Well, played.