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Posted: 9/9/2010 6:20:23 AM EDT
Hey guys,

Looks like I'll be coming home to NJ for Christmas. I haven't been back in years so I'm not up on current NJ gun law.

I have a KY CCDW permit and plan to carry my Glock G19 with me on the journey through OH and PA. I know my CCDW doesn't mean shit in NJ and I will have to disarm and lock up the firearm before entering the state. I will be in a van so locking it in the trunk is not an option. I plan to purchase a GunVault "Microvault" with it's Security Cable to secure the firearm in the rear of the van. My questions are...

1. I assume the GunVault "Microvault" will satisfy the requirement of "If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle’s glove compartment or console"? What is not clear is, does the weapon need to be unloaded and the ammunition locked up in another container? I don't see anything stating that the ammo and weapon must be kept separate but I want to verify that as I know some states have that stipulation?

2. While in the state, I may stay in a hotel\motel and if I do, I plan to bring my weapon into the room with me and have it loaded and ready on my nightstand just in case. Should something happen, are there any specific NJ laws pertaining to an out of state resident using a firearm for self defense?
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:26:33 AM EDT
PS - What are the current knife laws in NJ?

I EDC a Benchmade 942 which has a 3.4" blade and I carry it in my front pocket using the clip meaning that the clip and about 1" of the body stick out of my pocket
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:56:32 AM EDT
The microvault should be sufficient but the weapon does need to be unloaded, ammo kept in a seperate container. In my opinion it just needs to be kept in a seperate conatiner, nothing as crazy as another microvault or anything.

I'm not sure about the second point, someone else will answer shortly.

As far as knife laws there isn't really a law against knifes or size of knives per say, just whether or not you're carrying them with intent to use it as a weapon. So if you're carrying a folding knife and if anyone asks you say "its a tool I use everyday to open things etc" no worries. The size doesn't matter but carrying a machette is going to be difficult to justify up in the suburbs. If someone asks and you say you're carrying it for self defense, thats going to get you in trouble. You could hurt some poor criminal up here and that's unacceptable.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 8:58:02 AM EDT
IMO, transporting a handgun in to NJ without having a NJ permit to carry (or transporting a long gun without having an NJ FID) is illegal. I don't see anything in 2C:39-6e or 2C:39-6f that would exempt your activity.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 11:30:42 AM EDT
If your here a couple weeks, just have friends & family drive you around.
Nothing screams,"Pull me over!!" like a license plate from 4 states away, especially a Van.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 11:41:07 AM EDT
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_trans.html
This link should answer you questions about the transport of firearms.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 2:52:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jeff47:
As far as knife laws there isn't really a law against knifes or size of knives per say, just whether or not you're carrying them with intent to use it as a weapon. So if you're carrying a folding knife and if anyone asks you say "its a tool I use everyday to open things etc" no worries.

Gotcha - Thanks

Originally Posted By Tom488:
IMO, transporting a handgun in to NJ without having a NJ permit to carry (or transporting a long gun without having an NJ FID) is illegal. I don't see anything in 2C:39-6e or 2C:39-6f that would exempt your activity.

I think you need to either re-read the rule or re-read what I wrote. The law is pretty clear in stating that It is perfectly legal to transport a firearm into or through the state (without any NJ permit or license) as long as I don't plan on leaving it there and follow the rules pertaining to how the weapon is secured while in the car. What is unclear is what the law is regarding the weapon storage and handling after I reach my temporary "in state" destination?

Originally Posted By YoungFrankenstien856:
If your here a couple weeks, just have friends & family drive you around.
Nothing screams,"Pull me over!!" like a license plate from 4 states away, especially a Van.

Well the van is a Honda Odyssey so it won't be that ominous but point taken. I wasn't planing on driving all over the sate with it in the van anyway.

So the real question remains, once I reach my final destination (be it a family member's home or hotel), does the gun need to be kept locked up and can I legally use it (if need be) for self defense? My guess is the same laws that apply to a NJ resident would apply to me?

So what are the current NJ laws regarding a firearm in the home and the use of that weapon for self defense?

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:45:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By airgunner:
I think you need to either re-read the rule or re-read what I wrote. The law is pretty clear in stating that It is perfectly legal to transport a firearm into or through the state (without any NJ permit or license) as long as I don't plan on leaving it there and follow the rules pertaining to how the weapon is secured while in the car.

What law would that be? 2C:39-5b states that possession of a handgun without a permit to carry is illegal. 2C:39-6e and 2C:39-6f provide specific exemptions to that law. Which specific exemption states that it is legal to transport a firearm to a hotel, or to the residence of a friend/parent/relative/etc. ?

Please do not fall into the trap thinking that a FAQ posted on a web site has the authority of law. It doesn't.


Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:36:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tom488:
Originally Posted By airgunner:
I think you need to either re-read the rule or re-read what I wrote. The law is pretty clear in stating that It is perfectly legal to transport a firearm into or through the state (without any NJ permit or license) as long as I don't plan on leaving it there and follow the rules pertaining to how the weapon is secured while in the car.

What law would that be? 2C:39-5b states that possession of a handgun without a permit to carry is illegal. 2C:39-6e and 2C:39-6f provide specific exemptions to that law. Which specific exemption states that it is legal to transport a firearm to a hotel, or to the residence of a friend/parent/relative/etc. ?

Please do not fall into the trap thinking that a FAQ posted on a web site has the authority of law. It doesn't.




So you're telling me that you believe that even while the law allows for me to legally bring a firearm into the state (assuming it is properly stowed), the moment I removed the weapon from the vehicle I am committing a crime? That seems a little far fetched to me. Hell I know for a fact even Kalifornia isn't that bad.

The problem is the law doesn't seem to address what I can or can't do with the firearm while in the state? What if I was there for a firearms training class? What if I flew into the state? Are you telling me I would be a criminal for carrying a firearm in a locked container from the terminal to my rental car? Do you actually think they expect me to leave the weapon locked in my car, even if I'm going to be there for 6 months?

I'm sorry but your take on the law seems pretty unrealistic to me. That said, I can't find any NJ law that either proves or disproves your theory so I guess I need to call the NJSP or the AG's office to find out what the real scoop is? I will try to make sure that who ever I talk to is quoting from specific law and not just opinion.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:47:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By airgunner:
Originally Posted By Tom488:
Originally Posted By airgunner:
I think you need to either re-read the rule or re-read what I wrote. The law is pretty clear in stating that It is perfectly legal to transport a firearm into or through the state (without any NJ permit or license) as long as I don't plan on leaving it there and follow the rules pertaining to how the weapon is secured while in the car.

What law would that be? 2C:39-5b states that possession of a handgun without a permit to carry is illegal. 2C:39-6e and 2C:39-6f provide specific exemptions to that law. Which specific exemption states that it is legal to transport a firearm to a hotel, or to the residence of a friend/parent/relative/etc. ?

Please do not fall into the trap thinking that a FAQ posted on a web site has the authority of law. It doesn't.




So you're telling me that you believe that even while the law allows for me to legally bring a firearm into the state (assuming it is properly stowed), the moment I removed the weapon from the vehicle I am committing a crime? That seems a little far fetched to me. Hell I know for a fact even Kalifornia isn't that bad.

The problem is the law doesn't seem to address what I can or can't do with the firearm while in the state? What if I was there for a firearms training class? What if I flew into the state? Are you telling me I would be a criminal for carrying a firearm in a locked container from the terminal to my rental car? Do you actually think they expect me to leave the weapon locked in my car, even if I'm going to be there for 6 months?

I'm sorry but your take on the law seems pretty unrealistic to me. That said, I can't find any NJ law that either proves or disproves your theory so I guess I need to call the NJSP or the AG's office to find out what the real scoop is? I will try to make sure that who ever I talk to is quoting from specific law and not just opinion.



Please let us know what NJSP and/or the AG tell you. NJ law is purposely vague IMO......with a handgun I think there will be problems though, just my opinion though.

RG

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 12:43:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By airgunner:
So you're telling me that you believe that even while the law allows for me to legally bring a firearm into the state (assuming it is properly stowed), the moment I removed the weapon from the vehicle I am committing a crime?

No... in reading the law (not the NJSP FAQ - the actual statutes), I believe that the minute you cross the Delaware, since you're not transporting the firearm to your residence, your business, or other property owned by you, nor are you transporting to a place of target practice or exhibition, that you are in violation of the law.

The problem is the law doesn't seem to address what I can or can't do with the firearm while in the state?

Yes, it does. Read 2C:39-6f. Those are the activities you're allowed to do while in possession of a firearm.

What if I was there for a firearms training class?

If said training class was sponsored by a law enforcement agency, then it could be considered a place of exhibition, and that would be legal. Otherwise, no - not legal. Again, read 2C:39-6f.

What if I flew into the state? Are you telling me I would be a criminal for carrying a firearm in a locked container from the terminal to my rental car?

Yep - that's what I'm telling you. Have you heard about the hunter from Utah, who's place got diverted to Newark, and he was transporting a rifle in his checked baggage? And since he took his baggage to the hotel where the airline put him up until they could get him re-routed, they arrested him for unlawful possession?

Do you actually think they expect me to leave the weapon locked in my car, even if I'm going to be there for 6 months?

Nope - they expect you to not bring the weapon in to the state at all.

I'm sorry but your take on the law seems pretty unrealistic to me.

Hey, that's cool. It's not butt that would be sitting in a jail cell. No ill intent meant here... just saying that my only intention here is to help make sure an otherwise innocent person doesn't accidentally become a criminal due to our F'ed up laws.

That said, I can't find any NJ law that either proves or disproves your theory so I guess I need to call the NJSP or the AG's office to find out what the real scoop is? I will try to make sure that who ever I talk to is quoting from specific law and not just opinion.

Again - 2C:39-5b makes possession of a handgun illegal without a permit to carry. 2C:39-6e and 2C:39-6f list specific exemptions to that law. 2C:39-6g specifies how the firearm must be transported if you're conducting one of the activities listed in 2C:39-6f.

The ATF maintains copies of all state laws.... their .PDF is much easier to read than NJ's online statutes. Here's the link:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5/atf-p-5300-5-new_jersey.pdf


Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:33:04 PM EDT
Im sorry to say that i have to agree with Tom. If you think that his interpretation of the law, and assumption of how the NJSP interpret the law, is a bit far fetched then you have truly been out of the state for too long.
As mentioned since you are not transporting the firearms home, to a range, to go hunting, or to a gun store you may not bring it into the state. Federal law provides for the safe transport of a firearms THROUGH a state but not TO it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:11:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By yamo1231:
Im sorry to say that i have to agree with Tom. If you think that his interpretation of the law, and assumption of how the NJSP interpret the law, is a bit far fetched then you have truly been out of the state for too long.
As mentioned since you are not transporting the firearms home, to a range, to go hunting, or to a gun store you may not bring it into the state. Federal law provides for the safe transport of a firearms THROUGH a state but not TO it.


And so it goes here in The Peoples Republik of NJ!!!
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 4:37:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 4:39:04 AM EDT by 240shwag]
Originally Posted By yamo1231:
Im sorry to say that i have to agree with Tom. If you think that his interpretation of the law, and assumption of how the NJSP interpret the law, is a bit far fetched then you have truly been out of the state for too long.
As mentioned since you are not transporting the firearms home, to a range, to go hunting, or to a gun store you may not bring it into the state. Federal law provides for the safe transport of a firearms THROUGH a state but not TO it.


Also, he seems to think for some reason that his car is considered his property like other states with castle doctrine.
This is not the case here. You WILL be arrested and most likely convicted in court if you are driving around with a handgun in your car even if its in a locked case and unloaded.

Leave your shit at home. I know it sucks, but I think you will be fine without them.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 5:19:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 5:22:02 AM EDT by airgunner]
I think some of you guys have been living there too long and have been beat down into submission. I haven't called yet but from what I have learned...

It is unlawful to knowingly possess any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a Permit to Carry. It is unlawful to knowingly possess any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card (FID).

Exceptions. No Permit to Carry or FID is required:

1.
To keep or carry any firearm about a person's place of business, residence, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him; a place of business shall be deemed a fixed location.


Residence is the key word there. While in the state, were ever I stay is my residence...

Although the domicile and residence of a person are usually in the same place, and the two terms are frequently used as if they have the same meaning, they are not synonymous. A person can have two places of residence, such as one in the city and one in the country, but only one domicile. Residence means living in a particular locality, but domicile means living in that locality with the intent to make it a fixed and permanent home. Residence merely requires bodily presence as an inhabitant in a given place, whereas domicile requires bodily presence in that place and also an intention to make it one's permanent home.

2. Transporting

Firearms shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.

Ammunition must be transported in a separate container and locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

So I fall to see how bringing a legal handgun into the state and then taking that handgun into my place of residence (how ever temporary it might be) is illegal so long as my intent is to bring it with me when I leave.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:31:47 AM EDT
Well, in that case... all I can say is good luck, and I hope you don't get caught.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:40:17 AM EDT
You come on this forum, ask for advice and then argue with us about it?

Here is an example of what may happen to you:

Brian Aitken Follows New Jersey Gun Laws and Now Faces 7 Years in Prison
By Proud American .
Brian Aitken
On January 2, 2009 Brian Aitken was wrongfully arrested for illegal possession of firearms while moving from one residence to another within the state of New Jersey after law enforcement was called to a family residence during a verbal dispute between Brian and his parents over issues stemming from a recent divorce and an ongoing custody battle for rights to see his son. Law enforcement officials responded to a dropped 911 call at his Parent’s residence. These details were provided to me during a phone interview with Brian.

The guns Brian owned were purchased legally while living in the state of Colorado after going through the normal FBI and CBI background checks to be approved to purchase the firearms. During his move back to the state of New Jersey, Brian received clearance by TSA to transport his firearms via checked baggage. Brian has an Uncle who served in law enforcement who made sure he was fully aware of the need to contact the New Jersey State Police to see if there were any special requirements needed to register or license. Which he did and was informed that he did not have to register the guns.

Please take a few seconds from your day and vote for Brian’s story to be heard on Freedom Watch with the Judge by clicking the following link: http://freedomwatch.uservoice.com/pages/16626-freedom-watch-guest-suggestions/suggestions/267495-brian-aitken

Brian Aitken was also informed that if he would wish to purchase more guns or ammunition he would need a New Jersey Firearms Purchaser ID Card. He had no desire to purchase either item and chose not to apply for an Purchasing ID Card. During his conversation with the New Jersey State Police, Mr. Aitken was also informed that he could apply for a Conceal Carry Permit, of which he chose not to pursue since he planned to only keep the firearms for home defense.

At the time of Brian’s arrest his guns were locked in the trunk of his vehicle, unloaded, and in wrapped in cloth and stored in a duffle bag. New Jersey law only requires they be unloaded, stored in a locked trunk, and stored away from ammunition. Which all laws were followed, according to statement provided to me by Brian himself.

New Jersey Firearm Statutes and Laws:

NJS 2C:39-6e:
“Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person… from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving…”

NJS 2C:39-6g:
“All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.”

NJS 2C:39-1

NJS 2C:39-6e

New Jersey State Police – New Jersey Firearm Laws

During my interview with Mr. Aitken, he also told me that he was charged with possession of illegal hollow point ammunition. According to New Jersey law, listed below, these bullets were not in violation of these laws.

N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

(2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].

Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition “persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . .”
N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).

More details on the Hollow Point issue can be found at:

Transportation and Use of Hollow Point Ammunition by Sportsmen

According to Brian Aitken, he was threatened with incarceration if he did not answer questions and consent to the search of his vehicle. He also told me that his Miranda Rights were read to him approximately 1 1/2 hours after his search and seizure. There seems to be violations of his Second, Fourth, and Fifth Amendment Rights with his case. Taking into consideration, State and Federal laws which protect a citizens right to own and transport legally purchased firearms, I would assume it safe to say that this case appears to be politically motivated for reasons the law enforcement officials and Assistant Prosecuting Attorney, John Brennan can only answer. John Brennan is the Assistant Prosecuting Attorney who has chosen not to drop charges against Brian and to prosecute his case.

I was also informed that, due to Brian not being able to afford a lengthy court battle, his attorney informed him that the prosecutor was offering Mr. Aitken only a 5 year sentence if he pleaded guilty. Brian has no desire to plead to a crime that he didn’t commit and declined the offer. I wouldn’t plead guilty for a crime I didn’t commit either!

If all of this wasn’t enough, a Judge Sheldon Franklin of Ocean County Family Court in New Jersey also chose to remove all visitation rights from Brian Aitken except 1 hour per week in the presence of law enforcement officials inside the Ocean County Family Court. Judge Franklin, according to Mr. Aitken, chose to treat him as though he were a violent criminal, even though Mr. Aitken is no longer in possession of the firearms and the charges against him are non-violent and victimless.


Brian Aitken and Son
Brian stated:

“The charges against me are non-violent and victimless. I did everything I could to follow the letter of the law; I checked the State Statutes, I contacted the New Jersey State Police… I did everything by-the-book. The Courts don’t seem to care. My son has gone fatherless for over one-third of his life because of a charge without merit. It’s time for this to end.”

I would also like to add that while interviewing Brian, he talked about his generous nature with helping with non-profit organizations and even taking time away from work so he can take an elderly neighbor to his kidney dialysis 3 times a week. Does he really sound like a violent criminal to you? I believe the courts of New Jersey are busy enough that they don’t need to be looking to railroad good citizens for legal gun ownership.

I ask that you share this story with everyone you can to help Mr. Brian Aitken find justice in this case. If you know of someone with ties to the National Rifle Association or Gun Owners of America, please get these someone in one of these organizations to help him with his battle.

Also, if you are an attorney wishing to help Brian, please use my contact form (at the top of each page) and send me your information so I can pass it along to Brian. He needs your help immediately to fight these unlawful attacks on his Constitutional Rights and Freedoms!


http://www.the-912-project.com/2009/07/26/brian-aitken-follows-new-jersey-gun-laws-and-now-faces-7-years-in-prison/
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 9:35:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 240shwag:
You come on this forum, ask for advice and then argue with us about it?

Never did I ask for anybody's advice or opinion. I asked about the law.

Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Here is an example of what may happen to you...

And if it does, it does. All I can do at that point is fight it with all of the resources I can muster. I don't know about you guys but I was taught to never start a fight but I was also taught to never abandon what was right just to avoid a fight either.

From the NJ laws I've read, everything I purpose to do is 100% legal. Maybe you guys have been subjects for so long now that to you, surrendering your rights in order to potentially avoid being wrongfully prosecuted by the local authorities seems like the right course of action? Well maybe I've lived in free states for too long now but I believe in exercising all of the rights the constitution guarantee's and that local law does not infringe upon. The whole idea of avoiding a perfectly legal act just to avoid a potential unjust prosecution is just a chickshit move IMO but it does shed some light on why the people of NJ have allowed the state laws to become what they have. This whole notion reminds me of the famous Benjiman Franklin quote...

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

With that said, LET ME BE CLEAR HERE - I am looking for state law as it applies to my situation. If you can point me to a law that specifically addresses my situation, great I'd love to read it. I am not however interested in your opinion nor am I asking for your advice so please keep your opinions and advice to yourself.

Thank you
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 2:24:08 PM EDT
All you are going to get is opinion and peoples take on the laws. There is no law written that pertains to your situation. The PRNJ is purposely vague. They like it that way so they can prosocute whomever the hell the feel like. Do whatever you want with your guns when you come here. Everything will probably be fine. Unless of course you get pulled over and volunteer that you have a gun in the vehicle. And if you should happen to find a reason to use or even just pull your gun at the motel, I think you'll be spending alot more time in jersey than you would like.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 2:48:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeJersey:
All you are going to get is opinion and peoples take on the laws. There is no law written that pertains to your situation. The PRNJ is purposely vague. They like it that way so they can prosocute whomever the hell the feel like. Do whatever you want with your guns when you come here. Everything will probably be fine. Unless of course you get pulled over and volunteer that you have a gun in the vehicle. And if you should happen to find a reason to use or even just pull your gun at the motel, I think you'll be spending alot more time in jersey than you would like.


True dat!!!
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 3:05:20 PM EDT
The Laws in this state are so stupid, we were informed at my last inservice that if we hear gunshots, as at the mall, we can secure our family, but better then be running to the sound of gunfire. Fine I would do it anyway. Now if I am in Texas, carrying legal by 218.....I have to follow NJ law and use of force or I may be charged when I get back...wtf?
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