Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 12/31/2005 6:38:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 6:46:02 AM EDT by standby1]
To All the UK members of the Home Forum

Hi

I can now contribute to the AR15.com forum, now I have my M4 / AR15 Supplied by Matt Greenall AR15.co.uk. A reasonable delivery time compared to some rifle suppliers.

I have been waiting to get a rifle for 18 months, I had ordered a Bushmaster Varminter through The Rifle Store, six months later a Bushmaster arrived, but I could not have it, The Bushmaster Varminter was a Fully semi automatic! Certainly not what I asked for and would be illegal in the UK.

My relationship with The Rifle Store ended following them asking me for £300.00 return shipping costs, not a chance, me the customer, I could not have been any further transparent with the spec of rifle I ordered, By Rifle Store.

Following that incident I asked Matt to build me the rifle I wanted, there were a few delays out of both our control however I did get my rifle for Christmas and have already started my reloading development for the rifle.

Some of the loads I have fired with the rifle Matt built have shown some interesting results that I am more than pleased with sub 1cm groups, and they may reduce further once I conduct further reloads with the moderator fitted, all my rifles have been fired with moderators and excellent results from 1 hole groups @ 100m to 500m with sub 0.5cm the best is 400m a 1 hole group all witnessed and signed groups and I had a mention from Sierra’s Carroll Pilant.

E-mail from Carroll Pilant, Sierra

Yes, I think I would leave well enough alone on that barrel. It is shooting better than many "Match" barrels the way it is. Good luck at the range, Hope you get your wish.

They made it thru just fine that time. Very impressive.

MIke your photo of the group didn't come thru.That is some great shooting though. The bullet can't do it all by itself, it has to be a combination of a good bullet, good reloading procedures, and great shooting. Thank you for letting us know how well our bullets are shooting.

Carroll Pilant
Sierra Bullets

I will try and put the groups on the forum as jpegs and the final reloading development that I will use also when I have decided what load to use.

I anticipate this will make interesting reading for members considering reloading, I reload to get the best accuracy possible for the range and stalking.

Finally I would like to thank Mat for the rifle he supplied me with and I anticipate those considering a rifle in future to look no further than AR15.co.uk

Oh and if any member can give me some advice on how to put the jpegs of the reloads fired, thanks.

Thanks Matt

Mike


Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:36:54 AM EDT
"Fully semi-automatic" fuck! thats got me confused.

Hi Mike, welcome aboard
piccies of your rifle please.

Roger
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:37:52 AM EDT
Welcome to board Mike

There's plenty of us here who reload so you are bound to get some great advice.

Have a Great New year with your new rifle

Cheers

Taffy

Pics....upload them to a picture hosting site like ..hunt101.com
Then link to them from here using the little picture button below on the toolbar
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:38:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 7:44:45 AM EDT by Taffy223]

Originally Posted By rbecks:
"Fully semi-automatic" fuck! thats got me confused.

Hi Mike, welcome aboard
piccies of your rifle please.

Roger



Not straight pull I think...but WoW....


AT what point did you find out????????


BEFORE
or
AFTER<­BR>
the first try at the range

I can just see the Range Nazi's having kittens after a a little bump-firing

Link Posted: 12/31/2005 8:02:13 AM EDT
5mm hole at 400M with a 14.5" M4 barrel

What was the load (obviously a Sierra bullet) and what was the scope?

Was this at Bangor off the benches?

Link Posted: 12/31/2005 8:51:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 9:05:19 AM EDT by Mousegunner-UK]
Originally posted by STANDBY 1

Some of the loads I have fired with the rifle Matt built have shown some interesting results that I am more than pleased with sub 1cm groups, and they may reduce further once I conduct further reloads with the moderator fitted, all my rifles have been fired with moderators and excellent results from 1 hole groups @ 100m to 500m with sub 0.5cm the best is 400m a 1 hole group all witnessed and signed groups and I had a mention from Sierra’s Carroll Pilant.



"Yawn"

Time for someones cornflakes, methinks.

Unless of course your related to Pete Moore!
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:08:43 AM EDT
Be nice....... it's Christmas!
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:13:21 AM EDT
OK,

Welcome to the forum


Happy New year (in 5 hours and 48 minutes
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:14:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mousegunner-UK:
Originally posted by STANDBY 1

Some of the loads I have fired with the rifle Matt built have shown some interesting results that I am more than pleased with sub 1cm groups, and they may reduce further once I conduct further reloads with the moderator fitted, all my rifles have been fired with moderators and excellent results from 1 hole groups @ 100m to 500m with sub 0.5cm the best is 400m a 1 hole group all witnessed and signed groups and I had a mention from Sierra’s Carroll Pilant.



"Yawn"

Time for someones cornflakes, methinks.

Unless of course your related to Pete Moore!



What's so difficult about that, I do it all the time.
The other day at Minsterly I loaded a magazine with 20rds and shot 20 one hole groups.
The smallest of which was .224 and the largest was .224. Odd eh?? At least I'm consistant

Anyway, welcome aboard Standby geezer
But you'll have to post pics of this legendary group to shut us all up

Mark
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:20:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 9:21:00 AM EDT by Bunnyassassin]
Just had me soup and Beechams, waiting for a lift to take me and me bottle of Whisky to the party.

All the best to one and all.

And remember............ a wardrobe is for hanging clothes in............ not pissin in!
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:27:17 AM EDT
Aww

Spoil sport
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 11:52:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 11:54:32 AM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:35:10 PM EDT
Welcome aboard !!

We want pics !!! !!! !!!

Just how dumb are the guys at the Rifle Store ? ? ?
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:45:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 12:45:47 PM EDT by streetfighter]

Originally Posted By steven_uk:
Welcome aboard !!

We want pics !!! !!! !!!

Just how dumb are the guys at the Rifle Store ? ? ?



Very dumb apparently, from what I've been hearing and reading recently.
Although I've never bought anything from them, I have spoken to them on a couple of occasions and have not been impressed.
The last time was when I was thinking about buying some Valdada bino's, only the ones that I wanted and were listed on their site with a price, weren't ones they carried
When they asked what use I wanted them for and I said watching bullet trace, they were dumbfounded and I had to explain it to them.
As I already do all my own gunsmithing, I'll stick to it and not bother with other companies unless I really have to.

Standby1, what ever possessed you to even attempt to get a Bushmaster imported? We've all been down these routes before, and if you really want something like that, it's best to ask around here.
We have an absolute wealth of experience and knowledge. Especially me

I'm not surprised you are happy with the gun Matt built, I taught him everything he knows .

You have a rifle made from quality components and there's no reason why it shouldn't shoot.

Mark
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:12:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:57:42 PM EDT
UK Semi-Auto ban lifted...

Is that what you said?

Taffy


I'll take one
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:26:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

I'm not surprised you are happy with the gun Matt built, I taught him everything he knows .

Mark



I can't quite get to grips with the modesty method you use.

Anyway, Welcome Standby, glad it works OK and the results coming in on the paper.
I think Rifle Store got a little education curtesy of the import, lucky they didn't get it via the Customs and CID. Many of us have been that route (getting the early morning 'knock'), and we ended up educating the Customs guys - we're all still shooting the stuff they took away and later had to return.

It seems it's a right of passage, if you've not had the search warrants served then you're only playing at AR15s!

Matt
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:20:00 AM EDT
Welcome Standby

i think we spoke at altcar a few months back ( you were with your lad ), i told you matt builds a good rifle.

He didnt build me one that shoots that good though, i'd like to copy your reloading methods to see if it improves my groups

Happy 06

Steve
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:54:06 AM EDT
Hi to all the members who have passed comment on the information I posted, thanks to those who have helped me with the pictures, links to follow.

I note that not all are happy with my posting of the results from my rifle, like I say as a trained military sniper I do what I do best and fine tune my rifle and get the best from them, oh it was not a 223 I shot the 400 group but my Steyr SSG PII.

With regards to the Bushmaster, they telephoned me to ask what ticket I had and then told me the bad news, I telephoned Bushmaster and they explained if they had been informed of the spec they would have made a barrel without the gas ports.

I am not new to AR15`s I used a M16/203 for 12 years; I wanted the bushmaster because that was the best alternative to a Colt.

Hi Steve yes it was me at the range and the load data is included with the pictures, however I have not finished the load development I could use one of the loads now.

I have posted this information to help members and not to offend, if you don’t reload you don’t understand I am a team player and have the medals to prove.

For all the positive comments thanks guys enjoy. http://tinypic.com/jigk1u.jpg

http://tinypic.com/jigs48.jpg

http://tinypic.com/jigmu0.jpg

http://tinypic.com/jigvuu.jpg

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:15:26 AM EDT
Just a quick question and not being picky but.

Where's the third round for each group or come to that the 4th and the 5th????

You can't say you have worked up a sub minute of angle group with two rounds as statistically it doesn't work as there are too many variables left to be considered.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:02:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 11:06:39 AM EDT by ACR26]
Did you shoot them in the tunnel at Bangor?

Have to agree with Mousegunner-UK that more rounds would be better, certainly to declare the accuracy on.
(You have to remember you are dealing with a 'harsh crowd' who shoot a lot of Service Rifle and Highpower, where the round count is higher + they view Benchrest shooting as only just above that of Arse-soft )

That said, looks well on the way to being a 1/4 to 1/2 MOA already.

Have you tried the Tu5000 or RE15 and 77's at all?

Edited to add:-

25.5gr V140 + S69 + LC Case @ Mag length works well out of a 16" Carbine
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:24:26 PM EDT
Standby1

Can we please see some pics of your M4 ? ? ? ?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:09:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ACR26:
Did you shoot them in the tunnel at Bangor?

Have to agree with Mousegunner-UK that more rounds would be better, certainly to declare the accuracy on.
(You have to remember you are dealing with a 'harsh crowd' who shoot a lot of Service Rifle and Highpower, where the round count is higher + they view Benchrest shooting as only just above that of Arse-soft )

That said, looks well on the way to being a 1/4 to 1/2 MOA already.

Have you tried the Tu5000 or RE15 and 77's at all?

Edited to add:-

25.5gr V140 + S69 + LC Case @ Mag length works well out of a 16" Carbine




24.9gr varget + S77 + lap case again loaded to mag length does well out of 16"
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:22:18 AM EDT
While your accuracy looks promising, and I'm sure it will be (a good AR115 will always be a 3/4 MOA gun), if you were to extrapolate and overlay those groups, you'd fimd that they are a little larger than you think they are. You'd have a couple of wild flyers in there too.

Also as the other two geezers have stated, two shots will not be a measurement of group size.
3 shots is a standard, 5 is even better and ten is even better than that.
Why ten????Because that's what you're going to shoot in any type of competition that really matters.

Whan you have finally found your load, shoot ten 10 shot groups and then call it a 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, or 1 MOA rifle or whatever.

Not trying to diss you or anything, but as our old Buddy Derrick Martin says in his book, " One good group does not a good load make. Verify, verify, Verify".

Mark

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:23:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Scope-eye:

I can't quite get to grips with the modesty method you use.



Ya gotta practise Matt, Ya gotta practise

Actually it comes easily
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:24:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rbecks:

24.9gr varget + S77 + lap case again loaded to mag length does well out of 16"



Too Hot, especially with a Lapua case
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:38:37 AM EDT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By rbecks:

24.9gr varget + S77 + lap case again loaded to mag length does well out of 16"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally Posted Streetfighter:


Too Hot, especially with a Lapua case




Yeah watch out when loading top end loads in Lapua brass, its case capacity can be upto 10% less than other .223 brass. Me and Streetfighter have some experience of this....and the results can be interesting to say the least.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:54:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By standby1:
like I say as a trained military sniper



Who were you with?

I did some shooting with A Coy RGJ, but before that was Anti Tank (Milan) with RGJ.

Dave
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:36:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 2:37:46 AM EDT by rbecks]

Originally Posted By Mousegunner-UK:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By rbecks:

24.9gr varget + S77 + lap case again loaded to mag length does well out of 16"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally Posted Streetfighter:


Too Hot, especially with a Lapua case




Yeah watch out when loading top end loads in Lapua brass, its case capacity can be upto 10% less than other .223 brass. Me and Streetfighter have some experience of this....and the results can be interesting to say the least.




Interesting with lapua brass, something I didn't know about capacity.
24.9gr varget with federal cases runs really well, I've only loaded and shot a few lapuas to the same spec (didn't seem that hot), might be some bullet pulling this afternoon, cheers guys.

Roger
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:10:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rbecks:

Originally Posted By Mousegunner-UK:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By rbecks:

24.9gr varget + S77 + lap case again loaded to mag length does well out of 16"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally Posted Streetfighter:


Too Hot, especially with a Lapua case




Yeah watch out when loading top end loads in Lapua brass, its case capacity can be upto 10% less than other .223 brass. Me and Streetfighter have some experience of this....and the results can be interesting to say the least.




Interesting with lapua brass, something I didn't know about capacity.
24.9gr varget with federal cases runs really well, I've only loaded and shot a few lapuas to the same spec (didn't seem that hot), might be some bullet pulling this afternoon, cheers guys.

Roger



Another thing, Federal Brass doesn't have a good rep. It's too soft and too thin in the web (which is crucial regarding pressure and safety). If I was you, I'd only reload it ONCE and then bin it.
It's just not worth the risk.
If you do want to buy replacement brass, go in this order: Winchester, Remington, PMC, IMI,.
Brass like Lapua, MEN, RG and Hirtinberger are too thick and heavy, leading to reduced capacity and high pressures..

The loads Dave was talking about were shot at the Nationals a few years ago.
I'd carefully worked up a load with a JLK 80 VLD in a Winchester case and 26.5gn N540.
It was very hot (2955fps ) but shot consistently in the V bull at 1000yds, in both my gun and Daves.
Problem is....Dave tried to replicate the load, but with Lapua brass.
Result: 10 minutes of kicking and banging, trying to get his gun open
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:11:57 AM EDT
Thanks for the constructive replies, I only shoot two shot groups one reason is when hunting your only ever going to get one second shot, if your lucky.

I can see your point shooting 3 or more shot groups as I did in the military with some rifles, I am no longer interested in competitions, been there done that, however I do understand where the service rifle and high power shooters are coming from.

I haven’t tried any other powder bullet combination as I use V140 in my other rifles with excellent results and maybe I will stick with that if the load development proves good.

I plan to use the Sierra 52g and 69g and 55g – 65g in my hunting loads.

If I get any better results I will let you know.

Thanks for the advice so far.


Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:46:48 PM EDT

The loads Dave was talking about were shot at the Nationals a few years ago.
I'd carefully worked up a load with a JLK 80 VLD in a Winchester case and 26.5gn N540.
It was very hot (2955fps ) but shot consistently in the V bull at 1000yds, in both my gun and Daves.
Problem is....Dave tried to replicate the load, but with Lapua brass.
Result: 10 minutes of kicking and banging, trying to get his gun open



Reminds me of another time when I was making up some sub loads for use with a the M4 and a can. I was using hornady 75g heads with varying light loads of RL15/N140. The testing was going OK until I had a chamber detonation; the magazine base plate followed by the spring and the follower exploded out of the magazine and proceeded to bounce around the room. I ended up deaf for about 30 minutes. Must add I was not holding the M4 at the time as it was secured in a vice, and was fired by a length of string.

I now own the only belted magnum.223 case in the world. It took me over an hour to open the gun (read remove barrel before being able to split the gun in two). The only damage was to the extractor which now has part of the .223 case fused to it. After fitting a new extractor and checking headspace I put the gun back into service. The gun still works fine.

I will post some pics later

Dave
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:45:59 AM EDT
hi guys,
following on from the dabate about lap brass, am i way off in thinking that an unprimed case should way 93 grains. correct me if i'm wrong.

Roger
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:54:20 AM EDT
Depands what type of brass it is.
If I remember, Lapua's weigh about 110gns, but Winchesters are in the low 90's
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:23:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
Depands what type of brass it is.
If I remember, Lapua's weigh about 110gns, but Winchesters are in the low 90's




just weighed my lap cases this mornng and they are 93gns ish give or take.

Roger
Top Top