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Posted: 12/18/2005 12:56:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 12:58:18 AM EDT by Syroc]
Rifle/shotgun and handgun are all 21. I'm 19, my father is going to be getting a permit to purchase and will be buying, with my money, a gun for me until i turn 21 and then transfer it over to me(looks like i might start with a 870 or mabye a wasr10) as long as i have a safe locking place to store it (A reasonable request.) My question is; Would I need my father to purchase Ammo every time? The state law doesn't ever mention it so I would assume it follows federal regulations which i'm pretty sure are only 18. Anybody know if this is true? Thanks again.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:16:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 6:19:15 AM EDT by SUKA]
Ive been buying RIFLES and Ammo since i was 18. Unless the laws has changed these past few years.
Only loophole before was Private Sale of HANDGUN which was possible before age 21. (but not anymore with the handgun cert)

What your Dad doing is straw buying , its best not to publize it with anyone at the range,HPD .
keep it between you 2..
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:35:48 AM EDT
I'm not sure about the ammo purchase age. You could call your neighborhood sports authority or gunshop and ask them. I'm sure you could always go to the gunshow and buy some as well.

As far as the "straw" purchase. I don't think this applies in this situation. I'm pretty sure it's only a straw purchase if you purchase for someone who is otherwise not legally allowed to have a firearm. Such being convictions of felonies, domestic violence or what not. That would be a straw purchase.

Straw purchase is a federal law. By federal law, Syroc being only 18 is legal to own a long gun. By local law Syroc is not old enough to purchase a long gun but may own one or use one. Syrocs father buying a long gun and then loaning it to his son to shoot at the range or where ever is perfectly legal and violates no laws federal or local. In Hawaii you may loan a long gun to someone for up to 15 days so long as they are at least 18.

This all came up when it was discovered that Sarah Brady purchased a hunting rifle for her son. People were crying straw purchase but she was never charged. The reason she was never charges is because her son was not restricted for any reasons legally from owning a firearm.

I'm by no means a legal expert or attorney and not trying to play one. I did however stay at a holiday express last nite.

If i'm wrong please feel free to show me.

Stone
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:59:01 AM EDT
Im having my father do the same thing for me in South Dakota because I dont want to continually go to HPD and do the permit process for handguns, and I dont want any neutered magazines. If I decide to bring them to Hawaii I can buy a neutered mag or two and fly it back with me from the mainland, take it to HPD and register (no permit required if you already have ownership) and thats it.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:16:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StoneTemple:
I'm not sure about the ammo purchase age. You could call your neighborhood sports authority or gunshop and ask them. I'm sure you could always go to the gunshow and buy some as well.

As far as the "straw" purchase. I don't think this applies in this situation. I'm pretty sure it's only a straw purchase if you purchase for someone who is otherwise not legally allowed to have a firearm. Such being convictions of felonies, domestic violence or what not. That would be a straw purchase.

Straw purchase is a federal law. By federal law, Syroc being only 18 is legal to own a long gun. By local law Syroc is not old enough to purchase a long gun but may own one or use one. Syrocs father buying a long gun and then loaning it to his son to shoot at the range or where ever is perfectly legal and violates no laws federal or local. In Hawaii you may loan a long gun to someone for up to 15 days so long as they are at least 18.

This all came up when it was discovered that Sarah Brady purchased a hunting rifle for her son. People were crying straw purchase but she was never charged. The reason she was never charges is because her son was not restricted for any reasons legally from owning a firearm.

I'm by no means a legal expert or attorney and not trying to play one. I did however stay at a holiday express last nite.

If i'm wrong please feel free to show me.

Stone


Yeah I was aware that you could have the firearm if your under 21, under a less then 15 day loan, and have it with you if you are going to go engage in target shooting or hunting. Thats what made me happy considering my dad doesn't care all too much about shooting since he left the Army. I got to brush up before i get my commision.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 1:06:03 PM EDT
Syroc
Just wanted you to know that straw purchases apply to any purchase in which the person who fills out the form and the person who is actually paying for the gun are not one and the same. Read the back of an ATF form 4473 (formerly yellow sheet now white) it lists several examples of what constitutes a straw purchase. Even if your dad pays for the gun in the store, it is actually not his money if you gave it to him specifically to buy the gun. The straw purchase prohibition applies even if the final recipient is not prohibited from buying the gun himself, and is only doing it because he doesn't want his name on the dealer's records as buying a gun. Sarah Brady was not prosecuted because she claimed the gun was a gift to her son which is allowed under federal law. But I don't think it was allowed under CA state law.

nf9648
As for having your father buy you a gun in South Dakota and you flying back to HI with it this is also a federal felony. Any time a transfer of a firearm occurrs between people who reside in different states the firearm must be sent to an FFL in the recipient's state and a form 4473 filled out and all applicable state and federal laws and background checks must be complied with just as with a new gun purchase.

Just remember guys, what you are talking about doing is a Federal FELONY and it is being plastered all over the internet for anyone to see. Read up on the laws before getting a firearm. Because ignorance is no excuse and it is very easy to screw up and never be able to own a gun again.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:39:24 AM EDT
How is it a felony if Im not a state (HI) resident? If my legal home of residency is in the state of purchase, wouldnt that be legal?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:57:17 AM EDT
NF is in good waters,

If dad buys in SD sells to NF in SD (FTF) , NF flies it into HI via Airlines in checked luggage from SD.
Go down to HPD for paperwork no wait, no mulitply trip. (loophole)
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 1:03:01 PM EDT
As long as I dont give him money to purchase then I should be good, I can buy from him after he buys. I will more than likely leave everything there just because I dont have storage space here, but as long as I dont send money to be used in the purchase from the FFL then Im legal from what I see. Im smelling a new MK23 and a new GAP shooting stick during my next trip home, just gotta go to Iraq first...
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