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Page Hometown » Iowa
Posted: 8/27/2017 9:44:25 PM EDT
Having done a lot of research; I decided to go with a single shot in 357 Maximum, it has light to modest recoil and custom Contender/Encore/CVA Apex barrels are reasonably priced.

I'm shooting the 140gr Hornady FTX 357mag bullet in my 20" CVA Apex, here are the numbers:
2500fps and this gun shoots five into .75" at it's 100 yard zero;
Drop in inches at;
200 yards- 7.5"
250   "    - 16.4"
300   "    - 30"

Energy:
100 yards- 1230 ftlb
300 yards- 436 ftlb

Basically at 300 yards you have the same energy levels as a 4 to 6" 357 magnum handgun would at about 75 yards. The bullet stays supersonic to about 320 yards, which is inside my safe shooting max distance on my farm.

My brother is running a custom 180gr Hawk Bullet's at 2100fps. When I get the G1 values for that bullet, I'll post the drop values for those 180's.
Link Posted: 8/27/2017 11:13:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Sounds like good data and will be plenty effective.

Im going with a .45-70 Marlin 1895BGL this year.

Nice to change things up for deer season this year
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 11:32:41 AM EDT
[#2]
I just picked up a CVA Hunter in 45 70.  At least one of my crowd is going with an AR in 450 Bushmaster.  Local smith says he's been building a number of 450 BM rigs.  This season will be interesting.  I'm guessing a third of us will be running rifles of some kind.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 8:26:13 PM EDT
[#3]
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I just picked up a CVA Hunter in 45 70.  At least one of my crowd is going with an AR in 450 Bushmaster.  Local smith says he's been building a number of 450 BM rigs.  This season will be interesting.  I'm guessing a third of us will be running rifles of some kind.
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Last i saw the AR platform was not allowed. Did that change?
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 10:40:44 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


Last i saw the AR platform was not allowed. Did that change?
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Keep watching the DNR rules and regulations. I thought it was AR15 pistols they were trying to disallow.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 10:44:47 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Keep watching the DNR rules and regulations. I thought it was AR15 pistols they were trying to disallow.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Last i saw the AR platform was not allowed. Did that change?
Keep watching the DNR rules and regulations. I thought it was AR15 pistols they were trying to disallow.
That is correct  (and stupid) about the ar pistols
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 1:16:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Having done a lot of research; I decided to go with a single shot in 357 Maximum, it has light to modest recoil and custom Contender/Encore/CVA Apex barrels are reasonably priced.

I'm shooting the 140gr Hornady FTX 357mag bullet in my 20" CVA Apex, here are the numbers:
2500fps and this gun shoots five into .75" at it's 100 yard zero;
Drop in inches at;
200 yards- 7.5"
250   "    - 16.4"
300   "    - 30"

Energy:
100 yards- 1230 ftlb
300 yards- 436 ftlb

Basically at 300 yards you have the same energy levels as a 4 to 6" 357 magnum handgun would at about 75 yards. The bullet stays supersonic to about 320 yards, which is inside my safe shooting max distance on my farm.

My brother is running a custom 180gr Hawk Bullet's at 2100fps. When I get the G1 values for that bullet, I'll post the drop values for those 180's.
View Quote



Why not go with the 200 gr. FTX? It is designed for the .35 Rem. so should work fine in the Maximim. It provides a .300 BC vs .160 for the 140 gr. I would have to run the numbers but I think you would get better overall ballistics particularly in the energy department. I was looking into the Maximum cartridge years ago and if IIRC the 200 gr. bullets had an advantage out of a 14" barrel over lighter bullets. You just have to pick one that will open up at the lower velocities.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 8:59:04 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:



Why not go with the 200 gr. FTX? It is designed for the .35 Rem. so should work fine in the Maximim. It provides a .300 BC vs .160 for the 140 gr. I would have to run the numbers but I think you would get better overall ballistics particularly in the energy department. I was looking into the Maximum cartridge years ago and if IIRC the 200 gr. bullets had an advantage out of a 14" barrel over lighter bullets. You just have to pick one that will open up at the lower velocities.
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You pointed out the problem in your last sentence above. The velocities on the 357 Maximum are just slow enough with the 200gr rifle intended bullet's that positive expansion is only assured out to about 140 to 160 yards or so. As I researched the testing others had been doing in states with similar the new law to Iowa, it became apparent that finding a high BC bullet was easier than getting suitable bullet's that will work properly across the 30 to 300 yard range. Penetration problems at closer range can be an issue if the bullet is too lightly constructed, and expansion problems at the 200+ yards where the 357 Max really shines for a straight walled pistol cartridge limited state. The 357 Max is effectively equal to the 300 Savage and can get close to 308 Winchester if you really hot rod it. I'm getting good velocity and excellent accuracy with both the 140FTX at 2500fps in my gun and the 180gr Hawk bullet at 2050fps in my brothers 20" Contender at modest pressure levels.  

All of the FTX bullets have a lock ring that reduces the likelihood of jacket - core separation on close shots, the Hawk bullet's are constructed like Partitions or H-mantel bullets. Deer are not armor plated, hit them in the heart-lung's with a suitable bullet and they will not go far.

Hopefully after Iowa see's a couple of years of safe hunting with straight walled cartridges, we will eventually have all restrictions removed on suitable centerfire rifle cartridges. Slugs and deer drives are far more dangerous than everyone sitting in tree stands or ground blinds, as illustrated every year by Iowa's far higher accidental shooting rates than all of the surrounding states that allow rifles during deer season.

I do love the fact that my friends are going to the 444 Marlin, 45/70's, and 450 Bushmaster's this year for their deer rifles. Warms my heart when my fellow hunters follow Robert Ruark's advice to "use enough gun".
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 1:28:00 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
You pointed out the problem in your last sentence above. The velocities on the 357 Maximum are just slow enough with the 200gr rifle intended bullet's that positive expansion is only assured out to about 140 to 160 yards or so. As I researched the testing others had been doing in states with similar the new law to Iowa, it became apparent that finding a high BC bullet was easier than getting suitable bullet's that will work properly across the 30 to 300 yard range. Penetration problems at closer range can be an issue if the bullet is too lightly constructed, and expansion problems at the 200+ yards where the 357 Max really shines for a straight walled pistol cartridge limited state. The 357 Max is effectively equal to the 300 Savage and can get close to 308 Winchester if you really hot rod it. I'm getting good velocity and excellent accuracy with both the 140FTX at 2500fps in my gun and the 180gr Hawk bullet at 2050fps in my brothers 20" Contender at modest pressure levels.  

All of the FTX bullets have a lock ring that reduces the likelihood of jacket - core separation on close shots, the Hawk bullet's are constructed like Partitions or H-mantel bullets. Deer are not armor plated, hit them in the heart-lung's with a suitable bullet and they will not go far.

Hopefully after Iowa see's a couple of years of safe hunting with straight walled cartridges, we will eventually have all restrictions removed on suitable centerfire rifle cartridges. Slugs and deer drives are far more dangerous than everyone sitting in tree stands or ground blinds, as illustrated every year by Iowa's far higher accidental shooting rates than all of the surrounding states that allow rifles during deer season.

I do love the fact that my friends are going to the 444 Marlin, 45/70's, and 450 Bushmaster's this year for their deer rifles. Warms my heart when my fellow hunters follow Robert Ruark's advice to "use enough gun".
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Quoted:
Quoted:



Why not go with the 200 gr. FTX? It is designed for the .35 Rem. so should work fine in the Maximim. It provides a .300 BC vs .160 for the 140 gr. I would have to run the numbers but I think you would get better overall ballistics particularly in the energy department. I was looking into the Maximum cartridge years ago and if IIRC the 200 gr. bullets had an advantage out of a 14" barrel over lighter bullets. You just have to pick one that will open up at the lower velocities.
You pointed out the problem in your last sentence above. The velocities on the 357 Maximum are just slow enough with the 200gr rifle intended bullet's that positive expansion is only assured out to about 140 to 160 yards or so. As I researched the testing others had been doing in states with similar the new law to Iowa, it became apparent that finding a high BC bullet was easier than getting suitable bullet's that will work properly across the 30 to 300 yard range. Penetration problems at closer range can be an issue if the bullet is too lightly constructed, and expansion problems at the 200+ yards where the 357 Max really shines for a straight walled pistol cartridge limited state. The 357 Max is effectively equal to the 300 Savage and can get close to 308 Winchester if you really hot rod it. I'm getting good velocity and excellent accuracy with both the 140FTX at 2500fps in my gun and the 180gr Hawk bullet at 2050fps in my brothers 20" Contender at modest pressure levels.  

All of the FTX bullets have a lock ring that reduces the likelihood of jacket - core separation on close shots, the Hawk bullet's are constructed like Partitions or H-mantel bullets. Deer are not armor plated, hit them in the heart-lung's with a suitable bullet and they will not go far.

Hopefully after Iowa see's a couple of years of safe hunting with straight walled cartridges, we will eventually have all restrictions removed on suitable centerfire rifle cartridges. Slugs and deer drives are far more dangerous than everyone sitting in tree stands or ground blinds, as illustrated every year by Iowa's far higher accidental shooting rates than all of the surrounding states that allow rifles during deer season.

I do love the fact that my friends are going to the 444 Marlin, 45/70's, and 450 Bushmaster's this year for their deer rifles. Warms my heart when my fellow hunters follow Robert Ruark's advice to "use enough gun".
I did my research quite a few (10?) years ago. IIRC the bullet I had looked into was an SSP (single shot pistol). It was designed specifically to open reliably at lower velocities. I didn't see that on the Hornady site so maybe they no longer make it. I didn't dig out my manual to look at the muzzle velocity listings of the current bullets but would have thought the FTX design being for lever action rifles would have come close.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 1:30:45 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
. Slugs and deer drives are far more dangerous than everyone sitting in tree stands or ground blinds, as illustrated every year by Iowa's far higher accidental shooting rates than all of the surrounding states that allow rifles during deer season.
.
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Yeah I'm calling bs on that
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 1:46:59 PM EDT
[#10]
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Yeah I'm calling bs on that
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IMO he's right. I grew up hunting in VA and MD in a tree stand with a rifle and I felt/was MUCH safer than the warzone IA becomes on opening day of shotgun. Nothing quite like marching in a straight line at a redneck with a gun.... ask the Brits how that worked out
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 9:04:15 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


Yeah I'm calling bs on that
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Look at the accidental shooting numbers, and the US Army study that has been widely circulated about richoet danger of conventional shotguns vs high velocity rifle bullets. That's the basis for Indiana legalizing rifles, along with I think Maryland (? not sure on that one). If the area is too built up for rifles, it's also too built up for shotgun slugs and should be an archery or buckshot only zone in my opinion.
Link Posted: 8/30/2017 9:25:14 AM EDT
[#12]
I had so much fun last year in bow season I had planned on giving up gun hunting for deer altogether. With rifles allowed I decided I have to kill a deer with my Walmart clearance .45-70 before finalizing that decision. If they eventually decide to open up bottleneck calibers I'll use my M1 too.

ETA-as for .357 Maximum, I love the round's capabilities but when I had my 10" Contender barrel I was left unimpressed. With a rifle length barrel the possibilities really shine though. Good luck!
Link Posted: 8/30/2017 3:09:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Iowa has very few shooting accidents during deer season I tried to find the numbers to compare with Wisconsin and Missouri  but haven't had much luck yet but to say our deer drives are unsafe is just not the case
Link Posted: 8/30/2017 5:43:38 PM EDT
[#14]
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Iowa has very few shooting accidents during deer season I tried to find the numbers to compare with Wisconsin and Missouri  but haven't had much luck yet but to say our deer drives are unsafe is just not the case
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I want to say one or two per year.  DNR should have the numbers somewhere.
Link Posted: 9/1/2017 5:34:58 AM EDT
[#15]
Those doing 450 bushmaster any company you recommend for barrels ?
Link Posted: 9/2/2017 7:57:01 PM EDT
[#16]
The 357 max is a sweet round, I've never ventured that route, but I have taken plenty of deer with a 110gr sjhp over 16gr of blue dot in my full size Coonan.  This year I am going with the 45 raptor or the 4570, I haven't decided yet.
Page Hometown » Iowa
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