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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:39:15 PM EDT
I understand the no-go zones are dorms and classroom buildings on a campus, but what about public common areas such as outdoor tracks, sidewalks, and parking lots?
Here is what GVSU's student code says...
Article III, Section 215.00 states:
"Possession or use of firearms, firecrackers, explosives, toxic or dangerous chemicals; other lethal weapons, equipment, chemicals or materials; or anything that can be construed as a weapon that operates based on spring, gas or air is not permitted on University property or in University housing at any time. Questions about weapons should be directed to the Director of Public Safety."
Well, the Director of Public Safety pretty much accused me of being a mass murderer for asking about that policy, so I am thinking about submitting an official request for clarification to the people who make the rules.
It really does not seem right that they can ban all firearms, even with a CCW, in parking lots, when the CCW no-go zones specifically exclude parking lots.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:28:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Furner:
I understand the no-go zones are dorms and classroom buildings on a campus, but what about public common areas such as outdoor tracks, sidewalks, and parking lots?
Here is what GVSU's student code says...
Article III, Section 215.00 states:
"Possession or use of firearms, firecrackers, explosives, toxic or dangerous chemicals; other lethal weapons, equipment, chemicals or materials; or anything that can be construed as a weapon that operates based on spring, gas or air is not permitted on University property or in University housing at any time. Questions about weapons should be directed to the Director of Public Safety."
Well, the Director of Public Safety pretty much accused me of being a mass murderer for asking about that policy, so I am thinking about submitting an official request for clarification to the people who make the rules.
It really does not seem right that they can ban all firearms, even with a CCW, in parking lots, when the CCW no-go zones specifically exclude parking lots.



Well IMO I would say that if they get funding from the State, than they are being funded by our Tax's and therefor as long as the CCW law does not include College's or Univ. as Schools than I'd say that as long as your not violating law pertaining to Carrying and your not on Private properity than I say Fuck them and carry! If they try and do something I'd get a lawyer .....

Just came to mind that if I went up the GVSU I would not know their so called rules and therefor I would carry on or around campus. If I got caught by public safety, how am I suppose to know what Article III section 215.00?? I could be all wrong, but its just my .02

Ant
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:59:40 PM EDT
I dont know to what extent they can even enforce rules that are not in line with county/state/federal laws. GVSU DOES have their own police department, pretty much independent of the department of the city they are within (Allendale).
Here is what I have as far as a letter of clarification. Tell me what you think.



I would like to request a clarification of a section of the Grand Valley State University Student Code.
Article III, Section 215.00 states:
"Possession or use of firearms, firecrackers, explosives, toxic or dangerous chemicals; other lethal weapons, equipment, chemicals or materials; or anything that can be construed as a weapon that operates based on spring, gas or air is not permitted on University property or in University housing at any time. Questions about weapons should be directed to the Director of Public Safety."
Contrary to this policy, The State of Michigan stipulates some similar, yet different responsibilities for persons possessing a valid concealed carry license in the State. Act 372 of 1927, Section 28.425o includes the following:
"(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:...
......(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university."

Section 28.425o continues to state:
"(3) As used in subsection (1), “premises” does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1)."

Common intrepretation of this law is that firearms may not be possessed in any manner by unauthorized persons within classroom and residence centers of a college or university, but MAY be possessed in a legal concealed carry manner by anyone properly licensed by the state.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:40:50 PM EDT
Yeah most College's/Univ have their own Police dept. Since the City/County Dept dont have the resource's to maintain law and order on some campus's.....You know you should contact the Local PD and ask them what type of Authority the GVSU PS have? You can do some research, and letter writing if it is really important to you to be able to carry in area's that are legal under the CCW Law.

ant
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:55:19 AM EDT
It was my understanding that you cannot carry on campus. Parking lots were ok as long as the firearm was kept in the vehicle. That's what I got when I met with the local PD and campus security on the issue.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:36:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Weasel_Master:
It was my understanding that you cannot carry on campus. Parking lots were ok as long as the firearm was kept in the vehicle. That's what I got when I met with the local PD and campus security on the issue.


Are they going to turn me over to the county sheriff if I fail to comply with rules of campus, which are not laws in the state?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:43:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 2:46:17 PM EDT by JYogi]
Well I own a business and I know I have the right to deny someone from CCW in my business so I don't see why the school would not have that right....

And yes, if you break their laws they turn you over to the local LE to go through the courts.

Also if you read it clearly says its not allowed on university property... The track, sidewalk, parking lots etc are University property....

If you are unsure you should do exactly what it says in their code... Contact the director of public safety... That is the only way to CYA. If you have a problem and are caught carrying saying "The guys on AR15.com told me it was ok" wont get you very far...

They have the right to deny you to carry in any area they want... It doesnt matter about the state CCW no gun zones as they have the right to deny CCW on their property as does every business/property owner. The ruling you are talking about with parking lots only applies to public schools... Most colleges are not true public schools.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 4:38:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 3:33:28 PM EDT by JoblessWonder]
Please stop reading sentences which purport to describe laws, and then offering your views as the facts.

1. State law prevents local units of government from enacting laws on firearms more strict than that of the state. “Local unit of government” means a city, village, township, or county.

2. Parking lots of the "pistol free zones" are not considered part of the "pistol free zone" under the 2003 CCW law changes.

3. State law prevents CCW carry by someone not a reserve or retired cop in the pistol free zone of "A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university."

4. State law does not prevent carry elsewhere on the college campus.

5. Some colleges pass their own laws banning guns, claiming that they are exempt from the preemption law (#1), above, and that the state constitution allows them to pass general criminal ordinances not related to educational operations.

6. There is a real question as to whether #5 is valid, so that charges have not been brought in any test cases because unlike with the "library" anti-gun laws created by liberal cities after "shall issue", there is real doubt on both sides as to the power of a university and no one feels ready to take the risk.

7. If the criminal ordinances in #5, above, do not exist, then the only power that the colleges have outside classrooms and dorms is the same as any other property owner in the state. That is: If they become aware of the carrying, they can request that the person leave, and if the armed person does not then leave they can request an arrest for trespass by the police.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:16:57 AM EDT
Were you required to sign a statement agreeing to abide by the rules when you became a student? If so, did you? They may not have legal legs, but they could just kick you out of school...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:31:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPWORF:
Were you required to sign a statement agreeing to abide by the rules when you became a student? If so, did you? They may not have legal legs, but they could just kick you out of school...



have not, and will not, sign anything promising to abide by their nazi rules. dont even get me started on parking....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:16:36 PM EDT
Paying your tuition and taking classes shows you accept the rules they give you in the Student Code. You elect to go there, you are not forced to go there.

If you have questions about this you would be much better off contacting an attorney than here where most peoples answers are their opinions. Unless someone here whose responded is an attorney that deals with gun laws and has reviewed the GVSU student code book??? I highly doubt it.

Anyway, good luck but as I said... If you do carry and have an issue, saying "I was told it was ok on AR15" won't do much in court but if you ask an attorney or someone who deals with the student code you will be MUCH better off.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:12:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JYogi:
Paying your tuition and taking classes shows you accept the rules they give you in the Student Code. You elect to go there, you are not forced to go there.

If you have questions about this you would be much better off contacting an attorney than here where most peoples answers are their opinions. Unless someone here whose responded is an attorney that deals with gun laws and has reviewed the GVSU student code book??? I highly doubt it.

Anyway, good luck but as I said... If you do carry and have an issue, saying "I was told it was ok on AR15" won't do much in court but if you ask an attorney or someone who deals with the student code you will be MUCH better off.



i was never issued any rules or rule book, but that is no excuse.
i plan on getting a recommendation of a lawyer from a friend that does tactical training, as soon as i can get in contact with him
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:57:48 AM EDT
Good!
Please let us know what they say.

I am no lawyer, never claimed to be but as I said I am pretty sure they have the right to make those rules as I know a private business is. As they are not wholy funded with public money and people elect to go there and are not forced to I think the school has the right to make rules like that.

Anyway, good luck and I look forward to hearing the outcome.

I hope the lawyers says I was totally wrong and you are allowed to protect yourself in those common areas.
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