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Posted: 3/21/2006 4:58:34 PM EDT
I'm trying to sell a pistol in the EE. I've had two seperate people (one who claims to be a FFL) tell me that I don't need to use a FFL to ship the gun. According to them a FFL is only needed on the receiving end. I always thought only FFL's were allowed to mail, or receive a mailed gun. Who's right??
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:15:42 PM EDT
You can mail a gun via the UPS or such. BUT you may only mail a long gun (read as non-pistol) to a FFL holder. You may not ship it to an individual. A pistol must be sent from an FFL to an FFL overnight. I am nearly positive on the last sentence.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:35:17 PM EDT
You can't send a handgun via USPS but you can via UPS or Fedex. Need to verify that your buyer's FFL will receive from a private party. Most will, some won't, but there is no law against it. You should request a copy of the their license or at least the numbers needed to verify on the atf FFL checker https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/ The last time I used UPS they asked to see a copy of the license where I was shipping. Check the UPS/Fedex websites for their particular rules regarding this. They both require overnight, so expect to pay 40 to 50 bucks depending where you are shipping to.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:03:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 7:04:16 PM EDT by Furner]
Some dealers will accept a handgun from a non-ffl. You will find that they will often charge extra, because there is no reason at all ;)
most wont though, and they will tell you they wont because its against the law. but it is not.
i have a dealer that will accept shipments of handguns from non-dealers, and i treat him very nicely to maintain that ability.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:13:56 PM EDT
OK

You can ship a Handgun as a non FFL to an FFL BUT have the FFL send you a signed copy of their license. You must ship it overnight and you cant ship it through the post office.

You can only ship longguns through the post office and they still must be sent to an FFL.

I have done it many times.
You will have to take the pistol (packed and seperate the upper and lower, I dont think thats a requirment but it will make the goof balls at UPS or FedEx more comfortable) and also for safe measure make sure to take a copy of the FFL you are sending it to. Only send it to the address on the FFL.
You do not have to show them the dealers FFL it is going to but it will make things go much quicker....

Good luck and Email me if you have any questions.... By no means do I know everything but I have shipped a few pistols and rifles in the past two years.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:52:01 PM EDT
The BATF website has a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page that answers this specific question.
In summary, a non-licensee (non-FFL) may ship directly to licensee (FFL) in any state. A non-licensee may NOT ship handguns via the US Post Office, they must use a common carrier (UPS or FedEx). FedEx's company policy is to require Next Day shipments of handguns, and bringing a copy of the FFL to which you are shipping has eliminated headaches for me. UPS has told me that their policy prohibits non-licensees from shipping handguns.

For rifles, I use FedEx ground for ~$13 insured with no problems (but I always bring a copy of the FFL to which I am shipping).
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:52:25 PM EDT
+2

FedEx

You can go insured 2-day saver instead of overnight cheaper and it's fine (However, this is directly out of a FedEx distribution location, and IIRC, you may have to go overnight at "outlet" locations). I've done it with a number of out-of-state pistol sales w/o a problem.

You cannot "mail" a pistol but you may ship it with a signed FFL to the FFL holder. Keep a copy of the FFL with the package, and one for your records and you'll be good to go.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:06:00 PM EDT
Check the Fed Ex rules, it clearly states it must be overnight (the girl in the store pointed it out to me once and its posted on a couple other boards)

USPS will ship pistols from a Non FFL to a FFL if you have their lic... You musta just dealt with one of their many workers who are clueless.

You can't ship through "outlets" like UPS Store, Fed Ex etc... You can't schedule a pick up at your home or office for a firearm either... Only an FFL has that luxury.

Always bring a copy of the license of the FFL you are shipping to and tell them exactly what you are shipping (a unloaded firearm in a secured locked case)

Also, make sure to slide a copy of the FFL license in the case with the firearm as well... That way if it is "lost" they have no excuse for not getting it to the dealer.

Make sure you always insure it...
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:22:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JYogi:
Check the Fed Ex rules, it clearly states it must be overnight (the girl in the store pointed it out to me once and its posted on a couple other boards)

USPS will ship pistols from a Non FFL to a FFL if you have their lic... You musta just dealt with one of their many workers who are clueless.

You can't ship through "outlets" like UPS Store, Fed Ex etc... You can't schedule a pick up at your home or office for a firearm either... Only an FFL has that luxury.

Always bring a copy of the license of the FFL you are shipping to and tell them exactly what you are shipping (a unloaded firearm in a secured locked case)

Also, make sure to slide a copy of the FFL license in the case with the firearm as well... That way if it is "lost" they have no excuse for not getting it to the dealer.

Make sure you always insure it...



YMMV, my experience was on several different occasions and different people. Always FedEx Express Saver (1-2 days depending on the service in the area shipped to) and not overnight, it was always insured over full value, and the package included the FFL.

I don't get involved with the b.s. they make up to avoid the liability of the workers hands. They visually saw the pistol before I sealed it w/the FFL in the box. Each and every time they shipped it the same way. Remember this is policy not laws (except for the USPS) so their interpretation can, and will vary depending on the person at the counter, and training in stated policy.

All that said, be prepared for what may or may not be required, cover you own, and let them deal with the "policy".
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 2:23:25 AM EDT
Can a Michigan resident ship a long rifle to another Michigan resident without going through a FFL?

Anyone know the answer to this one, and yay or nay could you also cite the MI law that covers this.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:06:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By headspace:
Can a Michigan resident ship a long rifle to another Michigan resident without going through a FFL?

Anyone know the answer to this one, and yay or nay could you also cite the MI law that covers this.



Yes, as long as the resident receiving the rifle is legally able to possess it. I'll have to find the MCL though that covers this. It would be very similar to shipping your equipment for a long hunting trip to yourself at another address. Except in this case since the other person is the intended recipient they have to be able to legally possess the item.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 8:53:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Section1_Operations:

Originally Posted By headspace:
Can a Michigan resident ship a long rifle to another Michigan resident without going through a FFL?

Anyone know the answer to this one, and yay or nay could you also cite the MI law that covers this.



Yes, as long as the resident receiving the rifle is legally able to possess it. I'll have to find the MCL though that covers this. It would be very similar to shipping your equipment for a long hunting trip to yourself at another address. Except in this case since the other person is the intended recipient they have to be able to legally possess the item.



If you are selling the firearm and the recipient is legally able to possess it?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 1:06:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 1:17:37 PM EDT by Mudboy]

Originally Posted By headspace:

Originally Posted By Section1_Operations:

Originally Posted By headspace:
Can a Michigan resident ship a long rifle to another Michigan resident without going through a FFL?

Anyone know the answer to this one, and yay or nay could you also cite the MI law that covers this.



Yes, as long as the resident receiving the rifle is legally able to possess it. I'll have to find the MCL though that covers this. It would be very similar to shipping your equipment for a long hunting trip to yourself at another address. Except in this case since the other person is the intended recipient they have to be able to legally possess the item.



If you are selling the firearm and the recipient is legally able to possess it?



Yes. In other words, if the recipient can legally own a long gun (i.e., a non-felon, etc.) then you can ship one directly to him or her within the state of Michigan.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 1:16:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 1:18:33 PM EDT by Mudboy]
Originally Posted By JYogi:

USPS will ship pistols from a Non FFL to a FFL if you have their lic... You musta just dealt with one of their many workers who are clueless.
(edit)


Wrong. The USPS (United States Postal Service) can not legally ship handguns from non-licensees (FFLs). Check the BATF website FAQ area section B8 (Unlicensed Persons). It specifically address this matter.

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the US Postal Service?
A: A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:37:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 2:38:10 PM EDT by JYogi]
Sorry, that was a typo I meant UPS...
USPS will only ship long guns from non ffls

If you look at my first response you will see I had the correct info.


Originally Posted By Mudboy:
Originally Posted By JYogi:

USPS will ship pistols from a Non FFL to a FFL if you have their lic... You musta just dealt with one of their many workers who are clueless.
(edit)


Wrong. The USPS (United States Postal Service) can not legally ship handguns from non-licensees (FFLs). Check the BATF website FAQ area section B8 (Unlicensed Persons). It specifically address this matter.

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the US Postal Service?
A: A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:11:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mudboy:

Originally Posted By headspace:

Originally Posted By Section1_Operations:

Originally Posted By headspace:
Can a Michigan resident ship a long rifle to another Michigan resident without going through a FFL?

Anyone know the answer to this one, and yay or nay could you also cite the MI law that covers this.



Yes, as long as the resident receiving the rifle is legally able to possess it. I'll have to find the MCL though that covers this. It would be very similar to shipping your equipment for a long hunting trip to yourself at another address. Except in this case since the other person is the intended recipient they have to be able to legally possess the item.



If you are selling the firearm and the recipient is legally able to possess it?



Yes. In other words, if the recipient can legally own a long gun (i.e., a non-felon, etc.) then you can ship one directly to him or her within the state of Michigan.




Thanks. I wish I had a copy of the actual law. It would help with purchases within the state. I mentioned that it was legal to seller with a stripped lower and he probably thought I was nutz.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:16:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mudboy:
Originally Posted By JYogi:

USPS will ship pistols from a Non FFL to a FFL if you have their lic... You musta just dealt with one of their many workers who are clueless.
(edit)


Wrong. The USPS (United States Postal Service) can not legally ship handguns from non-licensees (FFLs). Check the BATF website FAQ area section B8 (Unlicensed Persons). It specifically address this matter.

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the US Postal Service?
A: A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun



That is CORRECT.

Also, I refuse to use UPS on principle so FedEx gets the important stuff.
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