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Posted: 3/1/2006 5:09:00 PM EDT
They have approved and are approving our transfer applications!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!

They are requesting clarification on silencers too........................

Read official ATF position paper

www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/030106mich_mg_position_paper.pdf



ROCK AND ROLL -PARTY ON DOOODS
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:59:38 PM EDT
sweet. thanks for your efforts.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:08:01 PM EDT
CONGRATULATIONS ARE IN ORDER

I have got to congratulate all the guys and state and federal public officials who have been a part of this monumental change in Michigan Law and ATF/NFA Federal Transfer Approval Protocols.

First off, thank you to my good friend Kerry Morgan without who's help this never would have happened. Myself and Kerry go way back to the Gun Stock Michigan Days at Freedom Hill and the Gun Owners of Macomb County educating people and fighting for our gun rights.

Thanks to the Michigan NFA email group for their critique without which we may not have been critical ourselves.

Thanks MOST OF ALL to MY ATTORNEY GENERAL MIKE COX for his clear thinking and well thought out opinion on a very complicated issue. For his political courage to issue an opinion that was certainly controversial but absolutely legal, and correct! In hindsight we probably should have incorporated the silencer issue in to the question. We didn't because we wanted a clear opinion on transferable machine guns.

Thank You Robert Ianni of the Michigan Attorney General's Office for assisting in making inquiry on our behalf and for the moral support in our quest to move the ATFE Detroit Legal Counsel and the ATF in general.

Thanks to the ATF Detroit Legal Counsel whom I emailed a nice apology for going over her head. She has not replied back! I don't know what that means.

Thank You NFA Chief Kenneth Houchens and Chief Counsel James Vann for putting up with myself and Kerry being a major pain. And for your part in writing that position paper. WELL DONE! Thanks for getting the transfers moving! Also sorry about stepping on the toes but I never learned how to waltz and I do make mistakes!

Thanks NFA-Dan for the advice you were able to provide. Please convey my thanks to all the examiners, staff, and Chief Houchens especially for putting up with what I expect has been a rough time with all the inquiries and phone calls from Michigan people.

I think there are other thanks to be made to a couple of Michigan Congress people although I have not received any confirmation from them that they acted on our behalf. Should I find out otherwise I shall thank them as well!

To anybody I missed, my thanks again.

We have found new LIBERTY! Please guard it JEALOUSLY!

Thank You, Michael P. Sessa


Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:57:00 PM EDT
Thanks for all the effort and hard work you put into this happening aswell BustOff
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 1:15:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 5:24:26 AM EDT by osprey21]
Way to go, BO!!
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:09:09 AM EDT
bust off,

what have you heard unofficially on suppressors? i know what you have read and what your conclusions are, but i wonder what you heard from the AG himself or people close to him?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:03:41 AM EDT
Nice Job!!! I can feel the money leaving my wallet any minute now. Im gonna have to start reloading now too. Damn, more toys to buy! I hear this NFA thing is more addicting than AR15's are. Im in trouble.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:06:50 AM EDT
Th only thing I can tell you is read the statute and you tell me if you see any holes in it. My Attorney see's it the way I do. I have not queried the AG's staff as to what they think. I have only worked to help ATFE and NFA come to a rational and legal understanding of the law by asking the AG for a clarification. Now it looks as though ATFE has explicitly asked for clarification on all things NFA.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:15:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:44:55 AM EDT
THANK YOU!!!!
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 1:04:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By munyguru:
Thanx for all the hard work on this!




Definately...+1
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:40:43 PM EDT
so what is the law
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:13:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BustOff:
Th only thing I can tell you is read the statute and you tell me if you see any holes in it. My Attorney see's it the way I do. I have not queried the AG's staff as to what they think. I have only worked to help ATFE and NFA come to a rational and legal understanding of the law by asking the AG for a clarification. Now it looks as though ATFE has explicitly asked for clarification on all things NFA.



Could this open the door for anything else besides MG's & suppressors?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:09:07 AM EDT
Not sure of exactly everything they want a decision on but I expect Bomb or Bomb Shell has something to do with it, federally transferable artillery pcs if you will. Good question though. I have not seen ATF's request however I do understand it was submitted thru State Rep. Leon Drolet!

To answer the armedbrother - you will be able to possess transferable MG's as a private person after completing the federal requirements to transfer such item $200 tax paid to ATF, 2 sets FBI Fingerprints, 2 Photo's, Citizenship form and Form 4 in duplicate and a long wait while they process all your paper before you can possess the gun. After approval by the Director of ATF the approved form 4 shall serve as your license to possess said item in Michigan. That's the law.

Prior to this a private person wishing to possess MG's was required at a minimum to apply to ATF for a Curio's and Relics FFL license which allowed the licensed person to possess C&R MG's at most, none of the really cool MG's such as the MAC's, Uzi's, MP5's etc.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 7:42:55 PM EDT
BustOff, so, what's on your list of things to buy? I know I've at least got a MAC11 and a few suppressors in my near future.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:04:05 AM EDT
Well I was considering an M11/9 but now I'm thinking a bigger step like maybe a full size vector UZI, a Gemtech Viper suppressor for the MAC 10 as long as the silencer thing comes thru ok. I'm thinking of putting the SW 76 and all its accessories up for sale to fund the UZI.

And then again as an insurance factor I need to get the AG re-elected, we cannot loose him in the November election to some anti gun democrat fool. We need to talk it up with all our gun brothers across this state as to how important this election will be and how good Mike Cox has turned out to be.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:25:04 PM EDT
Thanks to all involved, that loud wooshing sound is the money leaving my wallet....
We need to support Mike Cox.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:37:26 PM EDT
BustOff,
Thanks for all your hard work..

I am wondering if we can get a comprehensive list of Class 3 dealers in MI?
I have been checking ,and since we are so new to this - not much info!!

I am Northern Lower,most likely nothing real close for me..

I am pondering the choice between the Mac11/9 or up to the Uzi..

First-I am going to do the LLC route..

I know there are internet sites to do this-does' anyone have a reccomendation?

Once again,Thanks for all your time and work on this!!

Thanks to you,A future MG owner,

Brenden
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:27:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BustOff:And then again as an insurance factor I need to get the AG re-elected, we cannot loose him in the November election to some anti gun democrat fool. We need to talk it up with all our gun brothers across this state as to how important this election will be and how good Mike Cox has turned out to be.
He seems to have done a good job citing relavant case law to back up his opinion. It may be difficult to overturn his opinion now without new legislation.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:21:08 PM EDT
Yeah - good point, But an incompetant fool such as Kelly is and was responsible for most of our problems. Would not take a new AG 15 minutes to write a crap opinion trashing this one. But the AG did a great job it is damn near boilerplate.

Oh - yeah, I hear the first mg approval has taken place, an HK sear gun or sear. Now mine is being kicked back because of that CLEO thing I talked about.

When getting your CLEO cert make sure you read that instruction #17 on the back about CLEO certification. In my case the Macomb County Sheriffs delegate the undersheriff signs the form. Make sure if a delegate is doing it that you print the name of the Sheriff and the Sheriff's title followed by the word "by" then the delegates FULL signature followed by his title and date.

The Sheriffs secretary told me they have done it this way for years and it has always been acceptable. I told her ATF was making me jump thru the hoops!

There's damn near not enough room on the line for it all - but if you don't get it right they could send your form back and delay you like their doing me.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:22:20 PM EDT
would i be able to go apply for a silencer asap????
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:34:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By starr:
would i be able to go apply for a silencer asap????



Once we have clarification either way....if yes..then yes, if no then no

Rd
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:09:30 AM EDT
I talked to atf today,there sending me my 5320.4 form 4 today they said fill it out and have sheriff sign and send 200 dollars with it,then it done,hope it works???
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:21:29 AM EDT
Really, can you elaborate a little more about the conversation. Why would they need to send you a form 4?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:02:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BustOff:
Well I was considering an M11/9 but now I'm thinking...........................





Still quite pricey no? Just curious as to what one would cost?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:48:58 PM EDT
I have been "studying" myself!!

Ballpark = 3K..
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:12:56 PM EDT
yee ha....



tag BTW
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:19:02 PM EDT
so we can have mg and silencers now in michigan
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:57:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:43:49 PM EDT
I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford anything in the NFA class but,
THANK YOU for making this happen.

No Expert
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 11:03:58 AM EDT
Does this allow SBRs?
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 12:53:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Praetorian55:
Does this allow SBRs?



Unfortunately not!
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 5:31:43 PM EDT
Only if it's a MG, otherwise - No!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:23:09 PM EDT
YES,IT DOES INCLUDE SBR RIFLES.mY BUDDIE IS A CLASS 3 IN MICHIGAN.HE SAID YES
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:09:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:26:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 6:27:42 AM EDT by starr]
you need to read buddie or call atf ,iam on the phone with the atf right now,they said SBR rifles are LEGAL,and i think they now what their talking about!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:10:59 AM EDT
Yes C&R designated SBR's are legal. SBR's are prohibited to all Michigan persons including dealers and manufacturers unless they are specifically classified as C&R by the Director of the BATFE.

MCL 750.224 b
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:02:27 AM EDT
Bust off is right. You have to ask the right question of ATF. Only C&R SBR's are legal to C&R license holders. Good luck in finding a C&R SBR.
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