Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/7/2006 11:08:58 AM EDT
Do I need an NFA stamp to buy one?

Whats the process. That would rock on the end of my AK.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:06:24 PM EDT
See the thread about "How do I buy a mcahine gun"
Process is the same.

An NFA stamp will be affixed to the transfer paperwork, it is not a stamp you can just buy at the post office.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:27:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordie48001

it is not a stamp you can just buy at the post office.



I realize that.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:20:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 1:21:46 PM EDT by bump0x]
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=190110

It applies to Suppressors as well.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:32:09 PM EDT
Supressors transfer on a form 4, with 200 tax, CLEO sign off and finger print card. You just can't buy one.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:45:39 PM EDT
It appears it's still not worth it.

Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:13:49 PM EDT
Well the ball has officially begun to roll. Oredered the paperwork from BATF just now and e-mailed a Class III dealer about a can for my AR. Yes, that ball is rollling very slowly, but atleast it is moving....Heck, I got plenty of time...zombies aren't due for another 6-7 months...should have that suppressor by then!

OOPS! I wasn't supposed to say anything about them darned zombies
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:22:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 9:23:07 PM EDT by gordie48001]
Easy,

ATF form 4 is available online in a PDF, you don't really need hard coppies any more as you can print what you need. Here is the link.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53204.pdf

I just got home from the Monster Jam and am whooped so I'll reply to your email in the morning.....it is going to take some typing and I am not up to it right now!

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:27:04 AM EDT
Before you go too far with the supressor thing you should contact the MSP firearms division in Lansing.
I think you will find that they say no way to supressors due to the fact the the AG opinion only and specificly addresses MGS. Supressors are not included according to them.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:05:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By anotherlefty:
Before you go too far with the supressor thing you should contact the MSP firearms division in Lansing.
I think you will find that they say no way to supressors due to the fact the the AG opinion only and specificly addresses MGS. Supressors are not included according to them.



Interesting.....I take it you've contacted them?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:37:59 AM EDT
I just hope I don't have to waste everybodys time again with another AG Opinion request. But if thats what it takes then thats whats going to happen.

You can tell MSP is top heavy with liberals.

If this has to happen again then the question will be as simple as; Are Michigan persons excepted under MCL 750.224 3 (c) to possess silencers or suppressors as they are contained in the same subsetion as machine guns?

There is now other way to interpret what the AG has already said simply beaucratic liberals in the MSP injecting their mis - interpretation of the law.

If we have to fight the MSP to secure our federal rights then so be it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:44:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 6:44:30 AM EDT by Archangel6]

Originally Posted By BustOff:
I just hope I don't have to waste everybodys time again with another AG Opinion request. But if thats what it takes then thats whats going to happen.

You can tell MSP is top heavy with liberals.

If this has to happen again then the question will be as simple as; Are Michigan persons excepted under MCL 750.224 3 (c) to possess silencers or suppressors as they are contained in the same subsetion as machine guns?

There is now other way to interpret what the AG has already said simply beaucratic liberals in the MSP injecting their mis - interpretation of the law.

If we have to fight the MSP to secure our federal rights then so be it.



Did you spearhead the current Opinion. if so my hats off to you!!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:49:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 6:51:09 AM EDT by gordie48001]
Yes he did, along with the help of another person.
There was much communication between a large group of people here but Bust Off and one other guy are to be herold as the champions of this.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:18:23 AM EDT
And even further. The MSP are simply law enforcers they are not lawmakers, Judges or Attorney Generals. They can NOT MAKEUP the law. If they want to tell us what the law means then it had better be a logical, legal and correct interpretation of the law. You can't make this stuff up folks.

The AG specifically cited the entire statute on the first page of the opinion as

Possession of a machine gun by a person in Michigan is controlled by section 224 of the
Michigan Penal Code, MCL 750.224:

(1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess any of
the following:
(a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to
shoot automatically more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by
a single function of the trigger.

The AG did not feel he had to cut and paste the rest of the statute as he has already specifically cited it fully and completely as MCL 750.224 in its entirety. And if the AG wanted to he could have narrowed the opinion with a footnote specifically not applying the opinion to what comes next after (a) machine gun (b) silencer. He has cited the entire law not just section 1 (a) machine guns. Yes he only cut and pasted the first section but the entire section has been cited.

He could have narowed the opinion like he did do in footnote 1. ' Because your request only concerns private individuals, this opinion does not address any other classes of persons,
such as law enforcement officers and military personnel.

If he wanted to isolate the silencers he would have said so and cited something like this in a footnote;

Because your request only concerns pre1986 machine guns, this opinion does not address any other classes of items such as
(b) A muffler or silencer.
(c) A bomb or bombshell.
(d) A blackjack, slungshot, billy, metallic knuckles, sand club, sand bag, or bludgeon.
(e) A device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance designed to render a person temporarily or permanently
disabled by the ejection, release, or emission of a gas or other substance.

Of which he did not say!

The MSP I am certain does not like the fact that we private persons in Michigan are going to be able to get and own pre-1986 mg's - I am sure they don't like other things like silencers and God forbid that we would ever be able to possess DANGEROUS items like SBR and SBS which would require legislation in order to own!

Message to MSP - you enforce the law - don't attempt to break the law in order to make the law! That would be unlawful - and the MSP would not break the law in order to make the law - would they?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:26:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Archangel6:

Originally Posted By anotherlefty:
Before you go too far with the supressor thing you should contact the MSP firearms division in Lansing.
I think you will find that they say no way to supressors due to the fact the the AG opinion only and specificly addresses MGS. Supressors are not included according to them.



Interesting.....I take it you've contacted them?



I did not contact them personaly. An associate of mine did and that is what he was informed.
I'm sure their phones will be busy Monday.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:43:16 AM EDT
And I just got on the MSP website contact MSP and basically just cut and pasted my previous post about this into their contact and question fields.

We shall see.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:04:48 AM EDT
Excellent
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:40:54 AM EDT
And I just emailed the Attorney General as well with the following;

Michigan State Police Muddying the Waters of Machine Gun Opinion?

The Honorable Attorney General Mike Cox,

Thank you for your most favorable opinion. I realize the opinion is very new and
mis-understandings or mis-interpretations may abound in the coming days. I have received a report that the Michigan State Police are telling people who call on the phone that the opinion only applies to pre-1986 machine guns and not the rest of the statute MCL 750.224 in its entirety.

Specifically they are disputing the fact that silencers are not included so they are still illegal. I am sure your opinion applies to the entire statute and not just MCL 750.224 1 (a) machine gun.............but the rest of the statute as well namely (b) a muffler or silencer (c),(d) and (e) as long as they were approved by the Director of the BATFE.

I expect if you were to have narrowed your opinion you would have specifically done so with a foot note as you did in your foot note 1 limiting the opinion to persons and not the police and military.

I expect you would have said with another foot note that, Because your request only concerns pre1986 machine guns, this opinion does not address any other classes of items such as
(b) A muffler or silencer.
(c) A bomb or bombshell.
(d) A blackjack, slungshot, billy, metallic knuckles, sand club, sand bag, or bludgeon.
(e) A device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance designed to render a person temporarily or permanently
disabled by the ejection, release, or emission of a gas or other substance.

I expect I am correct and your opinion specifically citing the entire statute MCL 750.224 would make all items prohibited by MCL 750.224 sub section 1 and identified items under 1 (a) thru (e) to all be lawful to possess as long as they were approved by the Director of the BATFE.

I certainly do not feel it is necessary to continue to waste your valuable time with another request for an opinion asking if silencers exist within the same statute as machine guns. Perhaps some additional clarification is needed for the Michigan State Police, and the BATFE whom we have not heard from as of yet.

With my best regards, Michael P. Sessa
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:24:05 AM EDT
Awesome work. Crossed fingers. And yes, MSP are law enforcers, not interpreters...although they like to see themselves as the ultimate legal authority in MI....ask any local/county LEO!

They do have a dedicated legal division that tries to simplify legal issues for lay practitioners (LEOs), but nothing more than that.

Besides, if I send away my Form 4s/print cards/etc. and my local CLEO signs the required forms, MSP has nothing to do with it, correct?

Cheers!

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:47:39 PM EDT
Like I think somebody said before on one of these posts - the AG has basically taken Michigan out of the NFA regulation business and placed it in the hands of the NFA BATFE.

It is a federal matter and if the Director of BATFE transfers our NFA stuff then thats your license to possess it in Michigan.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:31:56 PM EDT
Looking forward to talking to you Saturday Easy
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:12:25 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:18:46 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 11:55:26 AM EDT
so has anyone heard anymore on this yet today?

I'm filling out the form4 paperwork right now and wondered if anyone that has done it knows what is necessary to be filled out for a suppressor? I guess that would be a better question for a state that currently allows them huh.
the area that asks for model, serial no., etc. Does that mean you'd have to describe the firearm it's going on? what if you have more than one firearm that it would fit on? How are we supposed to know all this stuff?had
if this is all just a rumor, i'm gonna be pissed.



Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:59:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deuce32:
so has anyone heard anymore on this yet today?

I'm filling out the form4 paperwork right now and wondered if anyone that has done it knows what is necessary to be filled out for a suppressor? I guess that would be a better question for a state that currently allows them huh.
the area that asks for model, serial no., etc. Does that mean you'd have to describe the firearm it's going on? what if you have more than one firearm that it would fit on? How are we supposed to know all this stuff? we've never had to deal with it before.

if this is all just a rumor, i'm gonna be pissed.






You don't/can't fill out a Form 4 completely until you find the actual suppressor you are going to buy. Those areas you asked about would contain the model and serial number of the suppressor not the firearms its going to be put on.

Your best bet is to go to the NFA board on the AR section of this board and read the tacked threads at the top of it. Then, find a dealer near you in MI and they can answer any remaining questions and locate your suppressor choice.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:58:57 PM EDT
Give me a shout if you need help.

Dave Burgess
Great Lakes Arms
Algonac MI
greatlakesarms@comcast.net
FFL/SOT Class 3
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:36:44 PM EDT
thanks guys. i should propably get some cash togather. gordie, i'll email you thanks.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:39:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordie48001:
Give me a shout if you need help.

Dave Burgess
Great Lakes Arms
Algonac MI
greatlakesarms@comcast.net
FFL/SOT Class 3



+1 Gordies getting my business
Top Top