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Posted: 1/12/2006 9:15:47 AM EDT
[#1]
LLC? Where have I heard that before...
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Posted: 1/12/2006 12:54:19 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 1/12/2006 2:31:19 PM EDT
[#3]
I had actually googled it soon after I posted, just forgot to report back.
I havent, dont know about anybody else though. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 5:26:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Been there done that... yes Google is my friend. I've got all the forms but I'm not totally clear on all the aspects of doing this in Idaho and that's why I was asking if anyone in the area has already done so. Thanks guys. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 5:31:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Do people do this to get a corporate classIII and avoid troubles with CLEO signoff (or BGC?).
My problem is the $$$ for the ClassIII 
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Posted: 1/12/2006 5:42:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Having an LLC can give you several benefits. 1. No need for a CLEO sign off or fingerprints or photo's since it's the property of the Corp and not an individual 2. You can share you class III goodies with other members of your LLC legally, meaning if your buddy Joe is in your LLC you can borrow his MP5 and keep it at your house or take it shooting without his needing to be present as long as that firearm is property of the LLC. 3. You can have members of your LLC live it other states. So say your Uncle Bob lives in a state that is not class III friendly but Bob wants an UZI. Well he can buy it through the LLC and keep it at your house in your safe and shoot it anytime he comes out to visit, and you can use it anytime you like as long as Bob doesn't mind of course. 4. The biggest advantage is that you cut your wait time down to around 30 days for a ATF approval. Corps have no background checks to go through so all the examiner does is stamp your form and send it back OK'd. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 5:46:27 PM EDT
[#7]
...every corporation needs a few "middle managers"
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Posted: 1/12/2006 5:48:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Hhhmmmm, yes, this could be cool.
Cost? |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 5:51:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Cost is pretty minimal especially if you spread it out between a couple or more people. I've got several friends back in Phoenix that did this and I was all set to do it myself there before my move up here. The cost looks to be around $200 to set it up and then yearly renewal fees of around $30 or so. I haven't nailed that part down yet. In Arizona the LLC were perpetual and did not need to be renewed every year.
The only real downside to this is if someone wants out of the LLC they have to transfer the firearm through a dealer and pay the transfer tax again on each weapon they're taking with them. On another positive aspect, if you want make your wife and kids members of the LLC they don't need to transfer the firearms if you die. |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 5:53:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Well shit, I'd be interested even if I dont have any money for class III stuff. Spiff seems to be made of money, he can buy the class III stuff and store it at my place.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 5:57:10 PM EDT
[#11]
So the tax and transfer that a guy would have to pay if he leaves the LLC would only apply to guns that were bought with/for the LLC, right? In other words, all the guns I have now I wouldnt have to pay transfer fees and all that, correct?
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Posted: 1/12/2006 6:01:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Correct, as long as they are registered to you and not the LLC then you don't have to transfer them. Just the ones that you bought and registered to the LLC would have to be transferred again unless you decided to sell them to you partners. Then you or they do not have to pay the transfer tax.
Oh another cool aspect, if you bought out someone who had their own LLC they could sell you all their class III stuff without transferring it as well! All you have to do is file the LLC amendment papers with the state, the ATF doesn't get involved. Now how cool is that! |
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Posted: 1/12/2006 6:03:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Whoa, whoa, whoa, are short barreled rifles and short barreled shotguns considered class III? Oh I am definitely interested!!
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Posted: 1/12/2006 6:05:52 PM EDT
[#14]
YES and YES! |
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Posted: 1/13/2006 9:37:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Can class III items be taxed as property tax by the state? I can't find any info on this. My dad used to have a knife making business (no LLC or any other corp.) and he had to pay property tax on the tools that he used. I understand that a person can have a LLC and not have a business. So if I form an LLC with out a business any class III items cannot be taxed?
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Posted: 1/13/2006 11:10:10 AM EDT
[#16]
That's another issue I need to clear up. In Arizona as long as your LLC was a non for profit there was no tax burden. I would think it's the same here. So you wouldn't want to use your business LLC for this purpose unless paying the taxes would help you at tax time. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 6:39:17 AM EDT
[#17]
I have a LLC, but I am getting ready to dump it, as I have no use for it.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 6:49:16 AM EDT
[#18]
So when are we going to meet and talk about this? My days and nights are full until Friday this week. Though I may be able to weasel out of going to my sister-in-laws Thursday night. If everyone wants to meet at Hooters lets set a time/date and do it (I still think Barnes & Nobles would be better). Even if you don't necessarily have extra cash, if your interested, you should come along.
ETA: Remember, AZ is only going to let us burn up his rifles for so long, after that he's going to be saying, "Shoot your own damn rifles for a change!!". |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:38:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Hmmm we need to talk. Why didn't you mention that yesterday Todd.... |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:39:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Or just buy ammo for me too! That always works! |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:41:06 PM EDT
[#21]
You can buy an LLC off of someone else who is going to drop it?
Also it sounds like the LLC saves you from having to engrave YOUR name and address on the lower. Instead it would read the name and address of the LLC, right? Yeah, when do we meet? |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:43:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Yes that's one of the sweet aspects of an LLC for gun ownership. You can legally transfer all your NFA goodies to someone simply by adding and deleting officers of the LLC as long as they are assets of the LLC that is. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:24:08 PM EDT
[#23]
I can meet anywhere and whenever you all decide. I obviously would prefer Hooters, but only because of their fantastic food... (sorry, my black book from DC doesn't really reach this far) But I really don't care where we end up meeting. I'm still really interested but curious about all the details of the LLC and have a couple of questions.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 7:21:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Just didn't think about it. Plus, I either need to dump it in the next 3 weeks, or fill out all of the tax paperwork, and pay the $100.00 to renew it and I didn't think we would be able to get everone together in the next two weeks. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 7:29:00 PM EDT
[#25]
I have been working plenty of overtime, and it is keeping me away from the computer, so I have not been real timely on my replies. I am on my way out the door right now, so I will try and check this tomorrow to see if you guys can come up with a time for all of us to get togther, and it need to be within 2 weeks, if you don't want me to dump the LLC I already have.
AZ is correct in the part about adding names. I do not remember the cost, but you pay a small fee to add names to an LLC. I do not have the time to go into the rest of it, so let me know when we can get together, and I will explain it all then. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 7:47:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Your LLC might not work for this purpose since I'm sure you set it up as a "for profit" type. We need to form a "not for profit" LLC so we don't have to file tax statements. Todd sorry I totally zoned about calling you tonight. Give me a call tomorrow, I have some information for you. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 8:06:39 PM EDT
[#27]
So, AZ, Ar10er, what needs done? Heck I'll pay half the $100 that we need to renew it. After that what else needs done? If Ar10er has the LLC and we renew it, what then? ETA, did not catch AZ_Gun_Nut's last post before posting. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 8:25:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Ugh, two clicks in on medicmandan link and I'm already in trouble
I know this would be easier to decipher if I hadn't eaten all that paste in Kindergarden 
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Posted: 2/7/2006 8:33:07 PM EDT
[#29]
OK, It says we need a name with LLC in the title.
How about......WOOHOO WE GOT FULL AUTO BITCHEZZZZ (LLC.) |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 8:48:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Nah, we need to tone it down a bit, like "Boise Arms LLC." Then again, I'm kind of paranoid, maybe it shouldn't say anything about weapons at all!! 'Course you know the Feds are reading this anyway ('cause your all a bunch of gun totting wackos) so it probably doesn't matter anyway. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 9:01:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Dude you're spoiling my fun  Man there is some mumbo-jumbo in that legal stuff. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 10:39:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Argh! I waded through that legalize trying to catch the important bits thinking "oh, this looks like it's gonna be complicated", then I get to the actual Articles of Organization form......THE LLC NAME IS____________ Duh! Making an LLC should be easy, just one tricky question on line 4.
Now I see where AZ's going with the Not for profit, if it means less paperwork and no taxes, but NFP seems to be a separate type of business entity, would it be eligible for a....uh, you know- where we get to manuf/modify/test/evaluate C3? |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 5:13:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Boise Arms LLC sounds cool.
 So does "Eat Shit Hilary LLC"But if we have to tone it down I vote for "Flower Fields LLC" 
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Posted: 2/8/2006 5:36:05 AM EDT
[#34]
The LLC does not grant us any rights to the manufacturing/modifying stuff, we would still need an 07 manufacturing FFL and the SOT tax paid. After doing some more research on that aspect we would have to open a legitimate shop and actually sell some of these items in order not to get busted by the ATF for tax evasion which as I understand they have done so to some individuals. So in the mean time, a NFP LLC will allow us to by pass CLEO sign offs and speed up transfers as well as insure that any NFA items we own can get passed down to our families without them having to file paperwork with the ATF and paying extra transfer fees. Now if someone has a store front or place that we could use as a business address then we could get an 01 Dealers FFL and pay the $500 for the SOT tax and then be able to buy and sell Class III goodies. Then we need to find a local PD that is looking for some Class III items and get some demo letters from the Cheif and we can pick up some dealer sample guns. Also, you could each start your own LLC and add each other as an officer to one anothers so you can share your goodies legally. This way if something happens and people split off there is no confusion as to what belongs to who and how do we split it? There are managers and members to an LLC, just add who ever you want as a member and keep yourself and family as managers. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 6:16:31 AM EDT
[#35]
Your last post John, is why I said we need to get together. I can supply a place with an address. We will need a for profit LLC in order to do this right. I was thinking that if we all split everything equal, like you are required in a LLC, if anyone wanted out in the future, the others would just buy that person out.
Like I said, we need to get together. Anyone want to try for Sat. or Sun night? |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:18:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Happy fun ball LLC? :-)
Sat night would be good. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:29:43 AM EDT
[#37]
How about the fact that CIII includes suppressors and SBRs. If a for-profit business must sell or show movement of goods and services, a can/sbr would be easier to manuf. and sell in our business(s) than bullet hoses?
Puppies & butterflies LLC sunshine & lollypops LLC |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 4:27:36 PM EDT
[#38]
You are correct, suppressors, SBR's SBS's, AOW's are all included. A decent priced Can would sell pretty easy especially if you can keep the retail price down to around $200 or less. Anyone have a horizontal metal lath laying around? Saturday night is good for me as well. Someone pick a spot that is central for us, I'm still learning the area guys. How about "Snake River Ordnance LLC"? |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 5:12:39 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm interested. I've got stuff to do Saturday day but I can make it later.
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Posted: 2/8/2006 6:03:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Anyone got 5K to invest... if we could get this we could make some sweet stuff.
Industrial size metal lathe |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:04:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Well? Saturday, 1900, Barns and Noble on Milwaukee?
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:06:22 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:37:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Good for me. But you do realize that there might not be any tables left by then. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:44:27 PM EDT
[#44]
No, I didn't. So what would be a good time? I am on my way out the door, so I will check this in the morining. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 9:50:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Well, much as I would like to have the latest edition of "Small Arms Review" (or whatever) in front of me as we talk. It might be better to meet at a place like Hooters where they can throw together several tables. If we are going to meet at Barnes & Noble, we should probably get there late afternoon. At least by 6 or so. AZ, what time do you get off work? What does everyone else think? Is Saturday night at 7 good for everyone else? Or would a weekday night be better? |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 5:05:05 AM EDT
[#46]
Saturday night would be good for me.
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Posted: 2/9/2006 5:31:04 AM EDT
[#47]
I get off work at 5 so I could do 6pm as well.
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Posted: 2/9/2006 5:54:58 AM EDT
[#48]
So Saturday at 6ish. Is it going to be B&N or Titt....er... I mean Hooters?
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:14:42 AM EDT
[#49]
I think we should have this first gathering just to hash over our by-laws, like how long someone should serve as treasurer, secretary, etc... After all, it doesn't look like many are going to make it, but it is a start.
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Posted: 2/9/2006 2:51:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Does everyone agree to Hooters at 6? Lets have a head count of everyone.
AZ_Gun_Nut Ar10er JR Ryfter LP HennyBogan Spiff Anyone else? C'mon everyone, lets meet and talk about this. The prize at the end is "affordable" FA rifles & SBRs. Ok LP, silencers to. It will cost us a bit of $$, but not much if we go in together. Otherwise if you want FA you have to go to impactguns.com and pay $15,000 for an M16. |
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