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Posted: 4/3/2006 4:11:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:13:26 PM EDT
I think it should be open season as you are correct it is not normal for them to be inland.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:15:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:36:24 PM EDT
I bet a .308 will pop them sacks o' shit like Goliath stompin' on a sausage.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:28:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 6:31:45 PM EDT by double_trouble_2003]
Stage 5 - Practical Rifle, April 2006.

My understanding was they were federally protected. I think that's why they allow them to sink the docks in Astoria.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:56:33 PM EDT
I live on the Willamette by where the Clack comes in. Yesterday we saw five, yes count them 5 sea lions out swimming around in the Willamette. I had no idea that they come this far inland. I'll join the cause and raise what little hell I can.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 9:51:44 PM EDT
Well the Willamette will take care of them alone. Anyone care for a drink of the water?
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:27:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -RotorDemon-:
Well the Willamette will take care of them alone. Anyone care for a drink of the water?



Mmmm..mmm...Willamette River water...water so thick you can drink it with a fork

How about they start a tag for sea lion? Why not? We pretty much can shoot anything else in the state, whether we care to eat it or not. If you don't fancy the taste of sea lion blubber or steaks, then the local crawdad population will love you for it. Or...maybe they can start a local industry here....Canned Sea Lion....and we'll cater to the native North Americans up in the Great White North....hmmmm...maybe in exchange for King Crab or Salmon Then again, we could just introduce a predator....maybe a few Bull Sharks. Then we'd just be opening up another can of worms when the local wind surfers start disappearing, too.

But I do agree, the Sea Lions will have to go. Hopefully before the locals on the rivers take it into their own hands and someone ends up getting hurt out of being overly anxious to solve the problems themselves.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:32:14 AM EDT
I recall a few months ago they found one on Gov't Is. (or some other Is.) with a bullet in the head. Authorities were pissed and asking the public for information on it. They are protected but if they're devastating protected fish, the fish trump them and they can be removed.


I think they're vermin. a few years ago they parked their asses right in the locks up in Seattle (Hiram/Ballard Locks) and ate most steelhead that migrated into Lakes Union and Washington. Authorities caught the vermin and brought them back to Cali... and they swam back. Then they put that B.S. "Free Willy" model in the water to try to scare them... HA! I think the sea lions used it as a sex toy. Finally captured the worst offenders and sent them to prison (Sea World). All that effort and all it would have taken is $15 box of .308 and my time donated... and maybe a half rack of Rainier (vitamin R)

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:40:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:44:58 AM EDT
Let's see we can close the salmon season for an entire season to save the fish, destroying many peoples means of making a living.... But can we execute a few salmon crunchers? Hmmm... sumptin doesn't add up here......
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:49:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:11:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:
Sad part is, I feel, that even with alot of effort from the sport fishermen on this, no action will take place untill some of the tribes start to act on it or complain enough.



I agree. Unfortunatly the tribes right now are more conerned with the casino in the gorge then the salmon population.
CH
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:19:10 PM EDT
Have rifle, will travel.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 11:28:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 11:31:49 PM EDT by kythri]

Originally Posted By petagunner:

Originally Posted By ilike9s:
I think it should be open season as you are correct it is not normal for them to be inland.



Commercial fisherman have the ok to do it, the feds have the ok to do it as well. Problem is, they have big brown cute eys and nobody but the fisherman will volunteer to take care of it. The fed and the state will bicker back and forth untill it's no longer a problem as to who is gonna eradicate the bastards.



How about you speak with a commercial fisher-type person, and organize an ar15.com fishing expedition?

I'm sure we could all conveniently forget to bring our poles, and instead take aim at the sea lions.

ETA: Hell - I'll drive up to PDX, put myself in a hotel for a night or two, and pay for my own meals if someone wants to organize a boatful of us to go put a dent in the population over a 2-3 day period.

Don't get me wrong - I kinda dig seals and sea lions (my uncle owned the aquarium (and still owns the crappy gift shop that it's become) in Depot Bay where you could feed the seals, and I worked there a couple summers), and I'm not hankerin' to kill them, but I agree - they're a pest problem at this point.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:07:22 AM EDT
I think a nice quite stealthy walk up the banks of hte columbia would be a nice jester

Just have to watch those homeland security agents at the dams. They tend not to like guys with guns running around shooting at things.

Jason
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:29:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 7:29:52 AM EDT by Ziess]
Update:
KATU News Story

Days may be numbered for problem sea lions


By Brian Barker
and KATU.com Web Staff

BONNEVILLE DAM - Despite bombs, boats and rubber bullets, dozens of sea lions are continuing to kill salmon near the Bonneville Dam.

This month, biologists are trying one last time to scare off the problem sea lions, but if that doesn't work, they may try to kill them.


Sea lions could kill as much as 10 percent of this spring's salmon run and biologists say if they cannot get the problem solved soon, the situation could get ugly.

The sea lions are just doing what comes naturally - finding a way to keep their bellies full.

The problem is that the salmon are disappearing. An estimated 8,000 salmon will be lost this spring at Bonneville Dam.

State wildlife officials are mounting an aggressive effort to scare the sea lions away from the dam. The effort is their last stab at solving the problem before they will have to consider killing the sea lions.



"The difficult part about it is we're trying to save the endangered salmon as they are going up past the dam, but you've got the Marine Mammal Protection Act that protects these marine mammals," says Bob Stansell, a Biologist with the Army Corps of Engineers.



The biggest violator is sea lion C-404. He has managed to penetrate the fish ladder at Bonneville Dam.

Biologists say there are nearly 1,000 other sea lions hunting salmon in the Columbia River and they could conceivably kill 10 percent of the fish that come through the dam.

If the sea lions cannot be scared off, Oregon's Fish and Wildlife Commission has already applied for a permit to kill some of the problem sea lions, like C-404.

Killing the sea lions would be a last resort, but the idea is certainly a controversial one.

"Because they're so cute," says tourist Kristin Zubel. "They're not hurting anybody and there should be plenty of fish to go around."

The efforts to harass the sea lions enough to scare them away from Bonneville Dam will last through May.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:39:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:45:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:

funny thing is, they have only addressed the salmon problem, no mention of the sturgeon, why? Don't get me wrong, they are both important, but a springer, can be replaced in 4 years. A 60-100 year old sturgeon is alot harder to replace.



That's because the average person can sit on the bank or in his boat and has a chance of catching a salmon with little or no experience, just luck. Whereas sturgeon takes a little more skill, gear, and knowledge to catch and land. And the fact that sturgeon are spooky to the unknowing...prehistoric looking even They just aren't as popular, but hey...that's alright too, all the more for the rest of us. If the sea lions don't eat them all
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 1:57:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 1:59:54 PM EDT by kythri]

Originally Posted By petagunner:

Originally Posted By Ziess:
"Because they're so cute," says tourist Kristin Zubel. "They're not hurting anybody and there should be plenty of fish to go around."




That's the #1 problem right there If ODFW starts to kill them, look out, there is gonna be one helluva shitstorm with the protesters.

I on the other hand, will be there to celebrate. Hell, I'll even volunteer to reload for them


funny thing is, they have only addressed the salmon problem, no mention of the sturgeon, why? Don't get me wrong, they are both important, but a springer, can be replaced in 4 years. A 60-100 year old sturgeon is alot harder to replace.



Don't worry - hidden among the permits, such as the one for C-404, is one labeled "Kristin Zubel".



ETA: For what it's worth, electronic bullhorns are cheap at Radio Shack.

If we don't get to go along for ride to get rid of the sea lions, how about we go invade the protest? We can make big signs, shout down the protestors with our bullhorns, and derail the thing...
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 2:19:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kythri:

Originally Posted By petagunner:

Originally Posted By Ziess:
"Because they're so cute," says tourist Kristin Zubel. "They're not hurting anybody and there should be plenty of fish to go around."




That's the #1 problem right there If ODFW starts to kill them, look out, there is gonna be one helluva shitstorm with the protesters.

I on the other hand, will be there to celebrate. Hell, I'll even volunteer to reload for them


funny thing is, they have only addressed the salmon problem, no mention of the sturgeon, why? Don't get me wrong, they are both important, but a springer, can be replaced in 4 years. A 60-100 year old sturgeon is alot harder to replace.



Don't worry - hidden among the permits, such as the one for C-404, is one labeled "Kristin Zubel".



ETA: For what it's worth, electronic bullhorns are cheap at Radio Shack.

If we don't get to go along for ride to get rid of the sea lions, how about we go invade the protest? We can make big signs, shout down the protestors with our bullhorns, and derail the thing...



I thought about going downtown and fucking with them hippy bastards in front of that fir store.

Thinking about walking around with 4-5 bloody tbones hanging from my leather jacket. Then every so oftern tear a peice off hit it with the zippo for about 10 seconds and have a snack!

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:34:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 12:34:46 AM EDT by scrybe]
What we need is some Canadians.



EDIT: Whoopee! Post 223!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:50:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 8:08:09 AM EDT by petagunner]
www.protestwarrior.com



Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:55:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 9:00:44 PM EDT by Saguaro]

Originally Posted By petagunner:
Get ahold of your congressman and see what they intend to do to curb the sea lion problem on the Columbia now.

This has gone on for too damn long and it's hitting a critical point. Sea lions 180 miles from the sea is not normal. Sea lions above Bonneville dam is not normal. Sea lions on the fish ladder sunning themselves after gorging on fish is not normal either.

Last year, at the peak of Springer season, there were over 100 sea lions at the dam feasting on as many of the spring chinook that they could. This year, with the salmon numbers already down, they have moved to the sturgeon population. In a sense some of the springer population can be replaced thru hatchery programs, but how on earth are you going to replace a 100 year old sturgeon?

My dad, who has guided on the Columbia for 6 years now is fit to be tied. He is not alone on this either. I've spoken to a few other guides in the PNW who are also upset. Sunday alone, my dad witnessed 3 oversized sturgeon being eaten by sea lions. Take a fish of that size, over 60" and they are just hitting the stage where they will reproduce. That fish is also around 60-70 years old.

The sea lions have no predators in the river and very few in our portion of the pacific. If the correct people back in Washington DC are not made aware of this by the time they finally decide to make a decision to curb the problem it will be too late. Today, I sent an email to my congressman and senator as well as called Robin Brown at the Clackamas office of the ODFW. I plan on being a PIA to these folks untill this is resolved. If you feel it's a problem as well, take a minute to type a letter or make a call. Every little bit will help.



Sea lions are the least of the salmon's problems. Unless you're also writing letters about irrigators sucking spawning streams dry, dam operators not spilling water so juveniles can pass the dams without having to go through turbines, dam operators not creating a more natural flow regime, breaching the Snake River dams, mixed-stock ocean fisheries destroying weak stocks, water pollution, scientifically defensible logging operations (especially riparian buffer zones and not punching roads everywhere), etc., etc., etc., then you're wasting your time.

Seals and sea lions have been feeding on salmon and sturgeon for millennia without destroying the populations. And it's perfectly natural for them to be found far beyond Bonneville Dam. There are TONS of historical references to pinnipeds as far up as Celilo Falls (10 miles above The Dalles Dam), starting with Lewis and Clark. I'd be happy to post as many quotes as you want.

Predator control is like putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound. If we actually want to save the salmon, we need to get to the root of the matter, which is first and foremost habitat degradation, compounded by unsustainable mixed-stock fisheries.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 9:37:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:15:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 10:21:46 PM EDT by Saguaro]
So shortsighted, half-assed solutions are preferable to getting to the root of the matter, which is habitat degradation? It's thinking like that that has led to the current salmon crisis.

As for sturgeon, ever heard of the hydrosystem? Think a bit about what habitat fragmentation has done to sturgeon populations. Then think a bit more about what massive overfishing during the late 19th and early 20th centuries did to sturgeon populations. As you point out, sturgeon are long-lived fish. Take all the big mommas out of the water and viability of their population is seriously reduced. Then chop up their habitat with massive dams, and, voila, you have a serious long-term problem.

You can scapegoat as much as you want. It won't make the fish come back. Believe me, it's been tried. I suggest you read some history and biological lit (start with Taylor's "Making Salmon" and Lichatowich's "Salmon Without Rivers").

As for Columbia River salmon returns being stronger 20 years ago, you're absolutely wrong about that. Mean annual chinook counts at Bonneville Dam from 1980-1984 were 218,133. Mean annual chinook counts from 2000-2004 were 780,668. Look it up.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:05:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:13:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 9:14:27 AM EDT by munkalido]
Let's see.... tear out all the dams on the Columbia river and all it tributaries. Then if within the Columbia River watershed we will stop all logging, all pesticide use, loud noises if within a mile of a spawning area. Tear up all the roads and plant deciduous trees in their place..... basically return it all to pre-civilization.

OR

Remove a few problem marine mammals (sea lions) to keep them from seriously impacting an endangered species (salmon) which this year is having low runs for reasons unknown.

Seems to me homo sapiens the N.W. would become the endangered species should we 'get to the root of the matter'. Also seems to me that doing a 'half-assed solution' will keep 10 percent more fish to spawn while we continue to research ways to better cohabitate with nature.
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