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Posted: 1/27/2006 10:14:01 PM EDT
The sunday Oregonian is running an article on machine guns and the people that own them in Oregon, this was just on KGW news.hinking.gif
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:41:19 PM EDT
Wonderful.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:50:40 PM EDT
The M16 I was shooting at the last shoot will be pictured in the article.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 12:38:31 AM EDT
Oh fucking shit. Here we go...
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:26:50 AM EDT
Hopefully it won't have a Pic with WS4LIF holding one with his silly beanie hat on. That would just kill it for us as a sport.

Where is my paper work beotch.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:54:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ilike9s:
Hopefully it won't have a Pic with WS4LIF holding one with his silly beanie hat on. That would just kill it for us as a sport.

Where is my paper work beotch.



And flashing the "gang symbols".
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:57:35 AM EDT
link?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:00:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
The M16 I was shooting at the last shoot will be pictured in the article.



Any I idea what the article is going to talk about?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:37:22 AM EDT
Figure someone if not me will find the link tomorrow morning or whenever they put it in.

Oregonian Online
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:42:44 AM EDT
A reporter went down to the albany to cover the machine gun match - I think that s where a bunch of the material in the article came from.

It will be an interesting read.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:13:43 AM EDT
I think it's a decent article that puts the sport in a somewhat favorable light.

BD1
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:49:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:54:38 AM EDT

Machine guns come out of the closet
Firearms
- Fully automatic weapons are legal in Oregon as long as they are properly registered and used safely

Sunday, January 29, 2006
TIMOTHY A. AKIMOFF

After a week of delicately etching out cavities with a laser, dentist Rob Dugger of Wilsonville heads to the target range with his modified M-16.

"If it wasn't this, it would be hot motorcycles or hot cars," Dugger said, standing in the cool mist of a Sunday morning at the Albany Pistol and Rifle Club. "I do it to relax."

Dugger, 49, a married father of four children ages 8 to 18, joined the substantial ranks of Oregon machine gun owners three years ago when he discovered that fully automatic weapons were legal in Oregon, as long as they are properly registered.

The federal government prohibits private citizens from owning automatic weapons made or imported after 1986. But Oregon -- unlike California, Washington and seven other states -- has not extended those restrictions to all machine guns. Oregon, in fact, has some of the more liberal weapons laws in the country. In Oregon, you can legally fire a machine gun, shoot a flamethrower, even launch a few grenades as long as you do it safely and with registered equipment.

Gun shops that sell or rent machine guns are scattered statewide, and facilities in Albany, Eugene and Clackamas County host supervised target practice.

The Baron's Den in Eugene draws customers from all over Oregon, plus a few from states where machine guns are illegal. They pay $30 to run two 25-round clips through a Thompson machine gun, a process that lasts about six seconds per clip if you hold the trigger down. In Clackamas County, the sheriff's office welcomes machine gun owners at its indoor firing range near Clackamas Town Center and provides supervised public rental of an M-4, a lightweight version of the M-16 favored by the military.

An expensive hobby

Jim Ebert, a former Oregon City commissioner who has taught machine gun safety and marksmanship for 20 years, bought his first M-16 for $500. It's now worth about $11,000. Thompson submachine guns -- the Tommy guns associated with Al Capone and 1920s gangsters -- can fetch $10,000 to $40,000.

Today's Tommy gun owner is someone like Gordon Herigstad, a retired engineer from Molalla who spent his working days as a merchant mariner. Herigstad is an expert on the Thompson submachine gun, which he favors for reliability and nostalgia. Herigstad occasionally uses the weapon in competitions, usually finishing near the top, but more often it's locked in a case, rising in value like a fine antique.

Prices have soared because the ban on weapons made after 1986 limited supply and because of what some owners call the outlaw mystique of a misunderstood firearm.

"Only the upper income brackets have the discretionary income to buy machine guns," said Ebert, who also is the full-auto instructor for the Albany Pistol and Rifle Club.

Patrick Murphy, an Intel engineer who lives in Vernonia, is one of the new breed of owners.

"Sometimes I take these Intel guys out to shoot. You should see them standing there in suits with a big smile on their face as they brrrrrr, brrrrrr, brrrrr," Murphy said, pretending to strafe the landscape.

The registration process

When it's time to buy, people often come to Erik Chaffee of Damascus.

"It's not an easy process," Chaffee said of transferring and registering a pre-1986 machine gun. You have to have money, sometimes a lot of money, and you have to have a clean record. Once local law enforcement has signed off on a transfer, paperwork enters the federal approval process, which can take weeks or months.

Chaffee figures he's probably handled more than 200 machine gun transfers since he became a licensed dealer and started Chaffee Investment Arms in 1998. He's been known to let clients shoot $100 of ammunition before settling on a purchase.

Some people want big machine guns that fire rifle-caliber bullets and sound like a supersonic jackhammer, Chaffee said. Others want smaller, more refined weapons, such as the 9mm HK-MP5 or the Israeli-made Uzi.

"You can't pick out a machine gun for a guy," Chaffee said. "That would be like picking a wife for somebody."

A changing market

Machine guns have always been legal in Oregon, but owners kept quiet about them.

Gun dealer Chaffee said that until about 10 years ago, you didn't talk about machine guns in public, and you never told anyone who sold one to you.

"Back then, every time someone got shot, or a bank was robbed, every type of gun was bad," Chaffee said. "It didn't have anything to do with the person. It was just bad guns."

Chaffee credits the Internet with changing machine gun subculture by creating a meeting place for buyers and sellers, and a medium for the exchange of ideas. Gun owners in the Portland area often turn to subguns.com for postings of firing ranges or clubs open to machine guns to find out about scheduled shoots or to make contact with other owners.

R. Glenn Sabin of Portland, who came to appreciate machine guns during his military career, said the culture has "always been under the radar" because of what he sees as misinformation. "I think it's a lack of education about guns," Sabin said, referring to efforts to further restrict gun ownership. "Besides, a legally registered machine gun has never been used in a crime."

That point is hard to prove, but according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives, Sabin may be correct. Arrests involving unregistered automatic weapons, however, do occur, and they can be disturbing.

In 2001, federal agents and Clackamas County sheriff's deputies discovered an arsenal of explosives, machine guns and white supremacist literature in a rural Clackamas County home near Sandy. At the time, Sandi King, who has a 31-year history with the sheriff's office, said, "This is the first time I've seen something of this magnitude, ever. . . . This is scary."

Dale Penn, a longtime district attorney who now heads the state lottery, said that after Congress passed the 1986 law restricting machine guns, he spoke with law enforcement officials about proposing a complete ban on machine guns in Oregon, but it never became a priority. Machine guns are too expensive, too hard to conceal and too heavily regulated to be favored in street crime.

Shooting extravaganzas

The rising interest in machine guns also creates a market for organized shoots and occasionally spectacular exhibitions.

The nation's largest machine gun event is a three-day, full-auto extravaganza each spring and fall at Knob Creek Gun Range in Kentucky. Up to 10,000 visitors watch as machine gunners fire on radio-controlled cars and household appliances. To get a spot on the firing line requires up to a 10-year wait.

In Oregon, one of the most popular machine gun events is the semiannual shoot at the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club, a target-shooting competition that showcases machine guns for sale and offers rentals supervised by the range master. Albany's next shoot will be May 20-21, an event expected to draw about 400 spectators and participants.

This year, the Albany shoot could be eclipsed by a new event in Eastern Oregon.

On June 17-18, the Eagle Cap Shooters Association of Enterprise plans to host what organizers are billing as "the biggest and best machine gun shoot in the Pacific Northwest."

"We have a big range, the ability to shoot out to 1,000 yards, explosive targets, a night shoot, and the nearest neighbor is over a mile away, so noise won't be an issue," said Eric Kosowski, a spokesman for the Shooters Association.

"We're pulling in people from Boise, northern Idaho and all over Oregon."

Timothy A. Akimoff:503-294-5918; timakimoff@news.oregonian.com

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 12:40:51 PM EDT
I am very suprised, overall a well written and informative article. Wasn't anti-gun at all. They did use the term clips though.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:02:09 PM EDT

On June 17-18, the Eagle Cap Shooters Association of Enterprise plans to host what organizers are billing as "the biggest and best machine gun shoot in the Pacific Northwest."

"We have a big range, the ability to shoot out to 1,000 yards, explosive targets, a night shoot, and the nearest neighbor is over a mile away, so noise won't be an issue," said Eric Kosowski, a spokesman for the Shooters Association.

"We're pulling in people from Boise, northern Idaho and all over Oregon."



That's my buddy. It's supposed to be Kozowski. I'm trying to get more info on the shoot, but he's pretty busy...
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:14:47 PM EDT
All in all, a pretty well informed article.
Funny, I'm used to seeing pics like those here, not the paper!

I just hope it's not a wolf in sheep's clothing...
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:20:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
All in all, a pretty well informed article.
Funny, I'm used to seeing pics like those here, not the paper!

I just hope it's not a wolf in sheep's clothing...



I'm sure there are some out there thinking "OMG, you mean machineguns AREN'T illegal? Something NEEDS to be done RIGHT NOW!" I'lll bet Ginny Burdick is getting right on it too.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:27:42 PM EDT
I sure hope not...

However, they did seem to mention that some of the more "upstanding" members of the community
are the ones who own transferables.

As if they weren't afraid of the dentist enough!!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:30:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
I sure hope not...

However, they did seem to mention that some of the more "upstanding" members of the community
are the ones who own transferables.

As if they weren't afraid of the dentist enough!!



I think he was at our shoot last weekend. Well we did have a machinegun owner who was a dentist. How many could there be?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:40:27 PM EDT
I too am very surprised with the article. Being that it is the SnOregonian I figured it was going to have some libtard left wing slant to it, but on the contrary it seemed veryunbiased yet i nformative.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:50:41 PM EDT
WOW!

That’s a pretty good article.

Maybe we should all write a quick little e-mail to the guy to give him a pat on the back, mention that this gun control has been going on for 72 years and has proven how it doesn’t work.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:16:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ch139:
WOW!

That’s a pretty good article.

Maybe we should all write a quick little e-mail to the guy to give him a pat on the back, mention that this gun control has been going on for 72 years and has proven how it doesn’t work.



Actually, some would use the fact the registered machineguns are not used in crimes as proof that the gun control does work...
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:24:08 PM EDT
I have a thread started for the MG shoot mentioned in the article:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=36&t=221986&page=1

Eric Kozowski is a C3 dealer in Joseph EK Specialties and I've known him for over 10 years.

This has the makings to be one hell of an event.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:38:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YANKEEFAN:
I too am very surprised with the article. Being that it is the SnOregonian I figured it was going to have some libtard left wing slant to it, but on the contrary it seemed veryunbiased yet i nformative.



The Oregonian does put out some liberal crap but as a whole they piss off the libtards in general. They are owned by a non-liberal family and have been known to bump articles bashing Republican candidates. Remember; it is published in the land of hairy armpits and granola munchers....However, they did endorse Clinton and Kerry....

I researched this info for a college class. Basically I found the Oregonian a paper good for coving a crap in the woods with...Today's article was a good read and when I saw it at 6:00am I thought, "oh crap"!. BTW, that's a mod M-16? Modified to shoot 9mm? I own AR's but can't imagine a mod to make it look like that.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:32:45 PM EDT
Good article. Even mentions that a legal MG has never been used in a crime.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:44:13 PM EDT
I wish I had the means to be a part of the cool kid club.

Is it unethical to take out a loan w/o telling my wife?

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:19:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ch139:
WOW!

That’s a pretty good article.

Maybe we should all write a quick little e-mail to the guy to give him a pat on the back, mention that this gun control has been going on for 72 years and has proven how it doesn’t work.



Allready did.. after i whent through that article i was very impressed with the stance he took on it..

Basicly just a thank you for a unbiased article on the subject protraying the owners as the really are..

Jess
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:38:59 AM EDT
They still called magazines, 'clips'. I guess some here still do to
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:45:38 AM EDT
Keep those letters going everyone!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:32:49 PM EDT
Email sent:

I just read your article about full-auto weapons in Oregon. As a gun enthusiast and participant of the ARPC full-auto shoot, I have to say your article was well written and I appreciate the non-biased, informational perspective in which it was written. Although I do not own a full-auto weapon, I am guilty of owning a scary looking black AR15 and understand all to well how a little misinformation can turn into hysteria. It's great to see someone portraying the Oregon firearm community in a good, responsible light.

Thanks for your contribution to the community,
(My name here)



Link Posted: 2/2/2006 1:23:11 PM EDT
Anyone notice Pat (pcarms) was interviewed?

That's pretty cool.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:03:38 PM EDT
Mail sent.
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