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Posted: 1/24/2006 4:04:38 PM EDT
Sorry if this is total noob question but can an Oregonian buy a handgun in Washington?

I tried doing a search on the subject but came up with practically nothing.

The prices across the border at Sportsmans Warehouse are so much better than some of the locals places here in Umatilla County.

Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:10:23 PM EDT
Sure, just not at a WA gun show.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:16:49 PM EDT
Thanks for the speedy reply WS4LIF.
This is good to know!
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:17:06 PM EDT
For state-to-state travel, don't you have to go through an FFL?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:40:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 4:41:55 PM EDT by Hartmann]
I bought handguns out of state a lot when I lived in that police state to the south of OR. The answer is: yes you can buy it, but the FFL in WA has to send to a FFL in OR. That is, you can't take it home with you across the border.

Then you'll have to pay FFL transfer fees, shipping, and you still have to go through the NICS (+ pay any background check fees ) here in OR before you can take it home. THEN you have to go through any waiting period OR may have on handguns (sorry I don't know the laws here real well yet).

It might be worth it, it might not when you add up the extra costs + waiting time. It was definitely worth in in KA when the only gun store in town was charging $800 for a Glock 27
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:51:42 PM EDT
Well sheeeit...and it's only 30 miles away, lol...

No wonder it was so much cheaper.

Thanks anyway guys.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:18:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 11:19:28 AM EDT by KeptKirk]
Theres no waiting laws in oregon for rifle or handgun :)

Used to be! But its gone! (has been for years)

Make sure to pull out your ID to avoid the tax.

(Avoid the shipping and transfer by getting a WA licence and address or having your friend buy the gun for you)
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 11:37:12 AM EDT
There is a Sportsman's warehouse in Salem
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:01:09 PM EDT
ASK AT THE STORE IF THEY HAVE SOMETHING 'SET UP' TO DO THAT...HALING FROM VANCOUVER, WASHINGTON, I'M VERY CLOSE THE THE FREQUENTLY TRAVELED BORDER BETWEEN VANCOUVER AND PORTLAND....MOST OF THE STORES AROUND BOTH SIDES OF THE CREEK, HAVE SOMETHING ALREADY 'IN PLACE' TO FACILITATE A TRANSFER....
FOR INSTANCE, KEITHS, A BIG GUNSTORE DOWN IN GRESHAM (SUBURB OF PORTLAND) WILL TRANSFER THE HANDGUN TO 'CONTINENTAL PAWN AND LOAN' UP IN ORCHARDS (SUBURB OF VANCOUVER) FOR A SPECIALY NEGOTIATED FFL FEE OF $15......
IF THEY ARE CLOSE TO THE BORDER, THEY MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING ALREADY SET UP....
I WOULD SPECIFICALLY ADVISE AGAINS HAVING A WASHINGTON FRIEND BUY IT FOR YOU, THAT'S A 'STRAW PURCHASE' IN THE EYES OF THE FEDS....
OF COURSE, LONG GUNS CAN BE PURCHASED ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BORDER, FROM DEALERS, WITH A STANDARD 4473..........
--CARLOS
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:47:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 12:49:15 PM EDT by Hartmann]

I WOULD SPECIFICALLY ADVISE AGAINS HAVING A WASHINGTON FRIEND BUY IT FOR YOU, THAT'S A 'STRAW PURCHASE' IN THE EYES OF THE FEDS....


+1 They are really cracking down on this, even to the point where my wife tried to buy a gun for me for my birthday and when she told the gun store seller that, he wouldn't sell the gun to her 'cause it was a "straw purchase."


OF COURSE, LONG GUNS CAN BE PURCHASED ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BORDER, FROM DEALERS, WITH A STANDARD 4473..........


Yes but I think they still need to be transferred through an FFL.

Anyway, Kayook: do the math, if the gun stores on either side of the border have it set up like Carlos explained, it could be worth it.


Theres no waiting laws in oregon for rifle or handgun :)...Used to be! But its gone! (has been for years)


Cool. Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:37:27 PM EDT
I called Sportsman's and yes they do have an FFL transfer set-up with one of our local dealers, the fee is $35. I gotta imagine that this pisses off our local dealers though. In fact the guy told me that they no longer transfer to one particular place here just because of how much crap they were giving the buyers who did this.
So depending on the gun I would be saving money...cool!

...now I gotta decide what to get.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OF COURSE, LONG GUNS CAN BE PURCHASED ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BORDER, FROM DEALERS, WITH A STANDARD 4473..........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes but I think they still need to be transferred through an FFL.

Actually no transfer is needed that I know of for rifles. I bought my 1st AR at Sportsman's just 2 months ago (Bushy M4). After a quick background check I walked right out of the store with it.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:24:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kayook:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OF COURSE, LONG GUNS CAN BE PURCHASED ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BORDER, FROM DEALERS, WITH A STANDARD 4473..........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes but I think they still need to be transferred through an FFL.

Actually no transfer is needed that I know of for rifles. I bought my 1st AR at Sportsman's just 2 months ago (Bushy M4). After a quick background check I walked right out of the store with it.



You did a transfer if you bought it at a dealer. The dealer transferred it to you. I believe that is all he meant.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:40:35 PM EDT

You did a transfer if you bought it at a dealer. The dealer transferred it to you. I believe that is all he meant.


Actually I had thought an out-of-state rifle purchase had to be transferred from FFL to the FFL in the home state, like with handguns. Apparently I was wrong!
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:05:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hartmann:

You did a transfer if you bought it at a dealer. The dealer transferred it to you. I believe that is all he meant.


Actually I had thought an out-of-state rifle purchase had to be transferred from FFL to the FFL in the home state, like with handguns. Apparently I was wrong!



Oh, ok. I used to think that, then I didn't, then I did. Now I'm fairly certain as long as you are buying it from a dealer in a contiguous state and neither state prohibits it, all is fine as long as the NICS check is ok.

Can anyone tell me if there are any dealers at the Portland Expo gun shows that will transfer a private sale long gun to themselves and then to a WA resident? I don't *plan* on buying any rifles at the show, but then again, I hadn't *planned* on buying most of the guns I own.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:42:23 AM EDT
Can anyone tell me if there are any dealers at the Portland Expo gun shows that will transfer a private sale long gun to themselves and then to a WA resident? I don't *plan* on buying any rifles at the show, but then again, I hadn't *planned* on buying most of the guns I own.

MOST OF THE DEALERS SET SOMETHING UP AS SOON AS THEY GET THERE, IF THEY DON'T ALREADY HAVE A 'USUAL PARTNER' AGAIN, BEST TO JUST ASK...THEY WANT TO MAKE THE SALE, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE CROSS THE RIVER TO HIT THE EXPO SHOWS......

SOME OF THE ORYGUN DEALERS WILL HAVE A SMALL SIGN SAYING SOMTHING TO THE EFFECT THAT THEY CAN ARAINGE A WASHINGTON TRANSFER...CHECK PRICES THOUGH, THEY WILL RANGE FROM REASONABLE TO RIDICULUS............

NICE TO 'SEE' YOU DOWN IN MY NECK-O-THE-WOODS JAFO!!!!
--CARLOS
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:19:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 2:21:54 PM EDT by KeptKirk]
I dunno where you get the "straw purchase" stuff but if you look suspicous as hell yes, I doubt they sell it to you.

I only say that because I was in utter shock and disbelief at seeing she was refused a "gun" after saying it was for your birthday.

I just bought my friend a pistol and was telling the guy at the store how its not for me so looks dont matter too much and what I was going for, he helped me no problem.

My dad bought me the .308 for christmas telling the guy how its not for him its for his son and he was excited and such to get it for me.

I also bought another rifle for a friend (cheap 22 tho this time) and they also had no problem selling it to me.

Sportsmans warehouse on 82nd ave in portland.
Dunno! was xmas presant from some store (new boxed)
Walmart on 82nd, the one on holgate

If shes had trouble id go to the stores listed as ive never had problems with any of them.

I still dont get the advising against it, if I see a gun I want in a different state and I dont have all the papers I just have my friend buy it and they give it to me once we are out the door (you know how the employees walk you to the front anyways)

Were they going to arrest your wife or something?

*edited to change rifle to gun*
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:12:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KeptKirk:
I only say that because I was in utter shock and disbelief at seeing she was refused a "gun" after saying it was for your birthday.



Trust me, the story is real. It was for a Browning A-bolt, I told her the exact model I wanted. And once she mentioned it to the owner of the store, he said "now I have prior knowledge that this is not for you and you intend to transfer it to someone else, I cannot sell it to you because that is a straw purchase as defined by ATF blah blah blah" And believe it or not, the guy was a really nice guy. He had just been ridden hard by ATF and didn't want to lose his store. This happened in Kalifornistan.

I also witnessed this in FL. I was in a fun shop, and two guys to my right were looking at pistols. One was about to buy a gun and then turned to his friend and said "well give me the money." The clerk said "who is this gun for?" The customer was honest and said it was for his friend, and the clerk said no way, ended the sale right there.

Have you seen posters in gun shops that say "don't lie for the other guy?" It's a big effort/crackdown by ATF to define straw purchase very strictly...the idea is to crack down on legal buyers turning aroud and selling to felons, etc...please don't ask me if this works to reduce crime, I have no idea. I am just the messenger here.


Were they going to arrest your wife or something?


Nahh, nothing like that. They just say "I can't sell it to you."
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:50:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KeptKirk:
I still dont get the advising against it, if I see a gun I want in a different state and I dont have all the papers I just have my friend buy it and they give it to me once we are out the door (you know how the employees walk you to the front anyways)



I believe the advising is against committing a felony. From 18 US Code Chapter 44, section 922:



§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or




(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;



(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;




(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;



Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:40:42 PM EDT
From ATF's website:

"a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case."

Link was from the "ATF Theater" where they have cartoons of gun store workers and different scenarios. Again, I'm just the messenger here.

And it looks like the "Don't Lie for the Other Guy" program is a joint NSSF-ATF thing. Check it out here.

..and seems to have a contradiction w/ATF's site in that it says:

"While it is legal to purchase a firearm as a gift for another, it is illegal to purchase a firearm for someone prohibited by law from posessing a gun."

Whatever.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 8:41:09 PM EDT
ODDLY ENOUGH, THERE WAS A BIG STINK, CHRISTMAS BEFORE LAST(2004), WHEN SARAH BRADY(YEP, >THAT ONE< ) PURCHASED A RIFLE FOR HER SON....THE BATFE CONTRADICTS ITSELF (SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE....) WHEREUPON THEY SAY IN SOME OF THEIR REGS THAT YOU >CAN< PURCHASE A FIREARM AS A GIFT FOR ANOTHER PERSON, AS LONG AS THAT OTHER PERSON IS NOT PROHIBITED FROM RECIEIVING THE FIREARM IN THE FIRST PLACE......YET I FULLY REALIZE, THE FIRST QUESTION ON THE CURRENT 4473 ASKS IF THE FIREARM YOU ARE PURCHASEING IS FOR YOURSELF.....I'M SURE THE OWNER OF THE STORE THAT REFUSED TO SELL TO THE FELLOW'S WIFE WAS JUST 'CYA-ING' BUT THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS THESE DAYS WITH FIREARMS REGULATIONS, THE BAT BOYS HAVE GOT EVERYONE RUNNING SO SCARED, WE ALL WALK AROUND LIKE LITTLE SCARED SCHOOLGIRLS, AFRAID TO RUN AFOUL OF 'THE MAN'

THERE IS A FULL PAGE ADD RUNNING IN THE RECENT SHOTGUN NEWS STARTING A PROGRAM CALLED SOMETHING LIKE 'GIVE BATFE THE BOOT' I THINK IT'S BEING RUN BY THE JPFO...I'D REALLY HAVE TO CHECK AND MY COPY OF SGN IS AT THE OFFICE......
--CARLOS
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