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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:24:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 8:06:32 AM EDT by CubDriver]
I am wondering the legality of carrying a loaded rifle in your truck in Oregon. I looked through the ORS 166… area, and was unable to find anything that obviously forbids it (http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html). Searching Google I was able to find a reference about this on Oregon Firearms Federation, the second question on their FAQ’s page (http://oregonfirearms.org/faq/) that says it is legal; seeing that OFF isn’t exactly un-biased I wanted to check with you guys and see if you all know of anything different.

Assume you have a loaded rifle, and it is within the reach of the driver, not necessarily concealed, but the driver does have an Oregon CHL. (Does a CHL apply only to handguns (as the name implies) or any firearm?).

ETA: Assume this is for defensive purposes, not just transporting it to the range, its in reach of the driver, has a loaded magazine, but empty chamber, and the driver has a CHL.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom,
David.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:14:37 PM EDT
Simple, Do NOT do it! Because if you get pulled over for any thing things are going to go from bad to worse really quick.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:37:32 PM EDT
I don't have any firearms loaded (Besides my carry gun) When I transport. I have the mags loaded for everything but they are locked in a truck box, whereas the rifles are unloaded and the action is open in seperate locked cases.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 11:13:11 PM EDT
(last a cop told me when we were talking to them at a gravel pit a year or so ago)
Its legal, but stupid.

That being said, I dont have any proof or would say to act on my words or anything. As is well known, they are often wrong too :P

But loaded or not, its not concealed its in your proporty. As long as its in a case or something there shouldnt be a problem.

I dont even think there are laws for running around screaming with a loaded gun in your front yard, but again. I wouldnt recommend it :)
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:32:38 AM EDT
I don't believe carrying a loaded rifle in a car is illegal. It may start pushing up against one of my personal laws: Never frighten a policeman.

If you do have a firearm in the car, I believe it's always a good idea to inform the police of this when you're pulled over, even if you have no legal obligation to do so. I'd rather not be one of those 'He was reaching for a gun!' incidents that happens. BSW
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:18:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 6:22:20 AM EDT by CubDriver]
I totally agree that I would tell any officer immediately that I have my CHL, and weather or not I am carrying anything. I would tell him even if I wasn’t carrying anything.

I posed this question after a discussion with some of my cousins who live in Texas. They carry rifles in their car for self defense instead of handguns (I am sure they carry both), and made the comment, that they would rather flee from any immediate conflict/confrontation in their vehicle. If trouble followed and they were unable to get away they would much rather get out with a rifle, and putting the entire car (emphasis on parts of the car capable of stopping a bullet) between them and any aggressors.

If I remember last time I was down there, one kept a rifle in the rack in the rear window in his pickup, the other kept it in a rack on the roof above the rear seat passengers in his, and the youngest had hers slung muzzle down behind the passenger seat from the headrest.

Now I realize this is rural Texas, and not Oregon, what are your thoughts on this.

Thanks,
David.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:35:39 AM EDT
What good is a rifle if it's not loaded?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:05:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 8:06:30 AM EDT by NoAim]

Originally Posted By briansmithwins:
I don't believe carrying a loaded rifle in a car is illegal. It may start pushing up against one of my personal laws: Never frighten a policeman.



I agree.

Even though it's not required, I'm sure it comes up on their computer if they run your license. As a result my plan is that if I get pulled over and need to show my license, I'll also pull out the CHL with it. Up until then though, I haven't said a word about any weapons in the car.

Of course, once the office sees the CHL, the next question out of his mouth will be....
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:58:26 PM EDT
Yeah, not illegal.. I think the easiest way to get jammed up would be if you were driving slowly down a country road with a loaded rifle "not hunting" or something like that. But just having the rifle is not illegal.

Just not very smart to have a loaded rifle in a vehicle. Unlike a pistol, which is small, cased (in a holster), pointed in a safe direction at all times, and attached to you, the rifle will be much more awkward in side a vehicle. So unless you have practice getting it in and out w/ out doing shit like muzzle sweeping all of your passengers and people around you, including your self, it might not be a good idea. Not to mention how will you carry it loaded? In a case? in a rack? just tossed across the back seat? passenger seat muzzle toward the floor? etc. what if you get in an accident? I'd hat to have a tool box in my truck it I rear-end someone... a loaded gun scared the shit out of me. How do you store it when you are not in the vehicle? Are you leaving it loaded? or fucking around with loading/unloading if you stop to piss at the gas-n-sip?

If it is for self defense and you need a rifle for the job, I'd suggest chamber closed and empty, mag seated, on safe. You can pull it out of storage and rack it and you are on safe and ready to use the rifle.


Originally Posted By NoAim:
Of course, once the office sees the CHL, the next question out of his mouth will be....



"Cool man, what are you carrying?"

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:36:14 PM EDT
On a side note, my grandpa and dad had hunted together their whole life. My grandpa always kept his rifle loaded in the truck my dad wouldnt ever. (shit neither would I, once a gun is loaded I freak out if one is pointed at me and would bash the persons face in)

Anywho, after about 23 years of hunting together while getting out of the car with his rifle it discharged in the cab of the truck(not sure how), suffice to say my dad never went hunting with his dad and never will go shooting with him again.

If your going with anyone else, id keep it unloaded for safety even if your the safest person in the world.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:23:40 PM EDT
Sounds like a good idea in a rural area, might need the range and no neighbors to worry about. It would only work if you could conceal it. I think it would be stolen otherwise.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:48:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 4:49:34 PM EDT by Orygunman]

Originally Posted By CubDriver:
If I remember last time I was down there, one kept a rifle in the rack in the rear window in his pickup, the other kept it in a rack on the roof above the rear seat passengers in his, and the youngest had hers slung muzzle down behind the passenger seat from the headrest.

Now I realize this is rural Texas, and not Oregon, what are your thoughts on this.

Thanks,
David.


Sounds like rural Oregon of the not so distant past...
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 9:20:10 PM EDT
Glimpsed a lever-action rifle in a window rack through the tinted glass of a pickup just two days ago. 'Twas in the parking lot of WinCo on CPR in Hillsboro, as the driver pulled out. Made me smile.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:49:51 PM EDT
hey if its in the back seat and/or out of reach keep that sucker loaded if you want.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:07:42 PM EDT
Read below

14A.60.010 Possession of a Loaded Firearm in a Public Place. - Printable Version


A. It is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or carry a firearm, in or upon a public place, including while in a vehicle in a public place, recklessly having failed to remove all the ammunition from the firearm.

B. It is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or carry a firearm and that firearm’s clip or magazine, in or upon a public place, including while in a vehicle in a public place, recklessly having failed to remove all the ammunition from the clip or magazine.

C. The following are exceptions and constitute affirmative defenses to a violation of this Section:

1. A police officer or other duly appointed peace officers, whether active or honorably retired.

2. A member of the military in the performance of official duty.

3. A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.

4. A person authorized to possess a loaded firearm while in or on a public building under ORS 166.370.

5. A government employee authorized or required by his or her employment or office to carry firearms.

6. A person summoned by a police officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace, while such person is actually engaged in assisting the officer.

7. A merchant who possesses or is engaged in lawfully transporting unloaded firearms as merchandise.

8. Organizations which are by law authorized to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.

9. Duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or their members when going to and from the places of meeting of their organization.

10. A corrections officer while transporting or accompanying an individual convicted of or arrested for an offense and confined in a place of incarceration or detention while outside the confines of the place of incarceration or detention.


Link Posted: 1/25/2006 1:10:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Duskykiller:
Read below

14A.60.010 Possession of a Loaded Firearm in a Public Place. - Printable Version


A. It is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or carry a firearm, in or upon a public place, including while in a vehicle in a public place, recklessly having failed to remove all the ammunition from the firearm.

B. It is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or carry a firearm and that firearm’s clip or magazine, in or upon a public place, including while in a vehicle in a public place, recklessly having failed to remove all the ammunition from the clip or magazine.

C. The following are exceptions and constitute affirmative defenses to a violation of this Section:

1. A police officer or other duly appointed peace officers, whether active or honorably retired.

2. A member of the military in the performance of official duty.

3. A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.

4. A person authorized to possess a loaded firearm while in or on a public building under ORS 166.370.

5. A government employee authorized or required by his or her employment or office to carry firearms.

6. A person summoned by a police officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace, while such person is actually engaged in assisting the officer.

7. A merchant who possesses or is engaged in lawfully transporting unloaded firearms as merchandise.

8. Organizations which are by law authorized to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.

9. Duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or their members when going to and from the places of meeting of their organization.

10. A corrections officer while transporting or accompanying an individual convicted of or arrested for an offense and confined in a place of incarceration or detention while outside the confines of the place of incarceration or detention.





Get your CHL!
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:51:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Duskykiller:
Read below

14A.60.010 Possession of a Loaded Firearm in a Public Place. - Printable Version



That is Portland City Code... just in case anyone reading that doesn't know.

Also... check out the Open Carry thread.



Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:30:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:

Originally Posted By Duskykiller:
Read below

14A.60.010 Possession of a Loaded Firearm in a Public Place. - Printable Version



That is Portland City Code... just in case anyone reading that doesn't know.



Glad to read that because according to those laws you can't even go hunting on public land.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 8:04:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 8:08:17 AM EDT by CubDriver]
Ok, I was going to ask where that came from as I hadn’t seen it yet. That’s good info. I do have my CHL, so that’s not a problem.

I haven’t taken a defensive rifle course yet so I am not sure how they recommend you doing it, but if you were to carry a rifle for defense in your car, how you would do it? I am thinking about muzzle down slung over the headrest on the back of the passenger seat with a magazine in and either bolt closed on an empty chamber, or locked back with a chamber flag. This would consist of either cycling a round into the chamber, or pulling out the chamber flag (pretty quick with some practice I think), and hitting the bolt release. I am leaning toward the second way because if you were to get pulled over it would be evident that the chamber is empty, and I like that visible indicator. My HD shotgun has a flag, but the ejection port is so big its easy to knock it out in one motion as you pick it up.

Anyone have experience on how to get it out of the car in a quick yet safe manor.

Again, this is a discussion of if/how it can be done safely; feel free to offer your opinion. There have been some good stories above. Keep the advice coming.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 9:55:12 AM EDT
I believe that the operative words in the Portland City Code cited above are the "concealed handgun" part. I believe this thread started in reference to carrying a loaded rifle in a vehicle. A loaded rifle is not a handgun and it may or may not be concealed. I believe that in Oregon, if you are exhibiting a firearm, loaded or not, in a public place, you will be charged with brandishing a weapon or some similar offense. Even with a Concealed permit you are required to keep the handgun exactly as it states - concealed. Note also that this permit does not pertain to other weapons and is only for concealed carry of a handgun. This is not a Concealed Weapons License as some people may think. Just my take on the issues and I am no expert.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:03:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Knuckledragger:
I believe that the operative words in the Portland City Code cited above are the "concealed handgun" part. I believe this thread started in reference to carrying a loaded rifle in a vehicle. A loaded rifle is not a handgun and it may or may not be concealed. I believe that in Oregon, if you are exhibiting a firearm, loaded or not, in a public place, you will be charged with brandishing a weapon or some similar offense. Even with a Concealed permit you are required to keep the handgun exactly as it states - concealed. Note also that this permit does not pertain to other weapons and is only for concealed carry of a handgun. This is not a Concealed Weapons License as some people may think. Just my take on the issues and I am no expert.



The legal term is "menacing".

But yeah. Obviously if you're out and about, it shouldn't be too bad. However, if you're looking for a "trunk" gun, this it is both concealed, and locking in a separate part of the vehicle. A loaded rifle in the passenger area of the car...I'm not so sure. It should be fine, but quite frankly, a CHL and it being concealed are "practical" ways of avoiding the question.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:41:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 7:59:45 AM EDT by Knuckledragger]
Previously posted by NoAim:
"The legal term is "menacing".

But yeah. Obviously if you're out and about, it shouldn't be too bad. However, if you're looking for a "trunk" gun, this it is both concealed, and locking in a separate part of the vehicle. A loaded rifle in the passenger area of the car...I'm not so sure. It should be fine, but quite frankly, a CHL and it being concealed are "practical" ways of avoiding the question."




I am not looking to start a pissing match, I just want to discuss and help clarify some specific points I tried to make previously. Yes, in Oregon one of the more applicable charges may be Menacing as well as several other possibilities depending on the specific elements of the crime/offense. I used the term "brandishing" because most people have a general idea of the legal meaning of this term compared to the term "menacing".

This is from the ORS 166.210 Definitions:
(4) “Handgun” means any pistol or revolver using a fixed cartridge containing a propellant charge, primer and projectile, and designed to be aimed or fired otherwise than from the shoulder.

I quote this definition because it relates to the point that I was attempting to make earlier. A Concealed Handgun License has nothing to do with the carrying, transporting, storing etc. of a "rifle" or other weapon "designed to be aimed or fired otherwise from the shoulder". Since the initial post in this thread had to do with carrying of a rifle in a vehicle, a CHL has no bearing on the discussion unless I am completely misinterpreting the original question. If you think that a CHL gives you legal privileges with a rifle, you are mistaken. Again, I do not claim to be an expert and I am not looking to start a pissing match, I just hate to see someone charged with a crime because they thought they were covered with a CHL when in fact, they are not.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 8:03:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 8:05:02 AM EDT by CubDriver]
That’s what I thought too. Some states call it a “Concealed weapons license”, but when you look further into the law, ORS 166.250 lists a bunch of things that are considered “Unlawful possession of firearms”. Next ORS 166.260 “Persons not affected by ORS 166.250” lists all the people that are granted exception, one of those is “A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.”

So from how I interpret it, while it is called a Concealed Handgun License, if you have it, it exempts you from ORS 166.250, even though ORS 166.250 applies to more than just handguns.

ORS 166 — Offenses Against Public Order; Firearms and Other Weapons; Racketeering

Does anyone here, know better/different?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 8:57:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 9:44:44 AM EDT by Knuckledragger]
I would have to say that as far as the "law" goes, it is generally setup to go from a general term, for example "firearm", to more and more specific/restrictive terms such as "handgun". This is why the ORS has the definition sections. Yes, under ORS 166.260 it lists as an exception to ORS 166.250 "(h) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun." In my interpretation this is simply noting that this exception it granted under ORS 166.291 and 166.292. So, since our exception to 166.250 is specifically granted under ORS 166.291 and ORS 166.292 (and cited under 166.260) we again have to look at those ORS areas listed for our specific exception.

Now that we have come full circle back to ORS 166.291 and 166.292 I think that it is clear (as mud) that these ORS numbers pertain specifically to the issuance of a Concealed Handgun License. As I noted earlier, the term "handgun" is defined for this section by ORS 166.210. Perhaps someone better at interpreting legal-speak can weigh in on this. I know that when I took my original CHL class at the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, the instructor made it very clear that it was only a Concealed Handgun License and not a Concealed Weapons License as many people think. Good thought provoking discussion.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:43:10 AM EDT
It is my understanding that the CHL authroizes me to carry conceled not "open carry". As I read the laws, and regulations the CHL covers Handguns only, not rifles, carbines. Mk4 laser cannons or any thing else.

As for carrying a rifle in a car or truck I would not do it.
I live in beaverton, and crime is high emough that I would worry about someone stealing my weapon. Now if I lived out in rural oregon, far from the major cities/towns of the valey, I think it would not be a problem to carry a loaded rifle in my truck.

just my $.02

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:09:18 AM EDT
From the class I took at OFA it was clear that it was only a handgun license. Furthermore, it is legal to own and carry knives, but it's not legal to conceal a knife in a non-conspicuous place on your body. The Oregon CHL has nothing to do with anything other than Handguns.

I guarantee you will be cited or more if you drive with a loaded rifle around Portland. Not that I agree with it but I think we can agree on that.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 11:00:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 11:15:01 AM EDT by GackMan]
what the heck... we are way off topic.

Menacing is a crime, the components of menacing are much different than accidentally showing your gun to someone or carrying openly.

People throw 'brandishing' around like it is a chargeable offence. "if someone sees your gun then you could be charged with brandishing." Horse shit. There is no such crime and Brandishing versus menacing... It isn't the same thing.

I'd say that based on the circumstances brandishing might lead to Disorderly Conduct charges... but probably not.



Originally Posted By Knuckledragger:
I would have to say that as far as the "law" goes, it is generally setup to go from a general term, for example "firearm", to more and more specific/restrictive terms such as "handgun". This is why the ORS has the definition sections. Yes, under ORS 166.260 it lists as an exception to ORS 166.250 "(h) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun." In my interpretation this is simply noting that this exception it granted under ORS 166.291 and 166.292. So, since our exception to 166.250 is specifically granted under ORS 166.291 and ORS 166.292 (and cited under 166.260) we again have to look at those ORS areas listed for our specific exception.

Now that we have come full circle back to ORS 166.291 and 166.292 I think that it is clear (as mud) that these ORS numbers pertain specifically to the issuance of a Concealed Handgun License. As I noted earlier, the term "handgun" is defined for this section by ORS 166.210. Perhaps someone better at interpreting legal-speak can weigh in on this. I know that when I took my original CHL class at the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, the instructor made it very clear that it was only a Concealed Handgun License and not a Concealed Weapons License as many people think. Good thought provoking discussion.



You are correct, the ORS covers CHL and that only applies to carrying a handgun... not a concealed knife, brass knuckles, etc. But, as far as the initial question goes, according to the ORS it is not illegal to carry a loaded long gun in your vehicle. It isn't addressed, so without a statement making it illegal... it is legal.

However, in come the city and/or county ords that do restrict it... and they all have exceptions for CHL holders. Was Portland's intent to allow CHL holders to carry long guns in their vehicles? Probably not. But there it is - a clear exception to the law.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 12:12:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 1:00:04 PM EDT by Knuckledragger]
163.190 Menacing. (1) A person commits the crime of menacing if by word or conduct the person intentionally attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious physical injury.

(2) Menacing is a Class A misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §95]

Like I have said in each of my posts, I do not wish to get into a pissing match. I know that Menacing and Brandishing are not interchangeable terms. I was trying to avoid a pissing match by telling another poster that he was wrong, so I didn't. I also know that Brandishing is not a listed offense in the ORS. As I stated before "I used the term "brandishing" because most people have a general idea of the legal meaning of this term compared to the term "menacing". The word "legal" in that sentence may have been misleading in that it is not a "law" on the books. However, the term is used in some of the Case Law on exhibiting of weapons. I also stated "Yes, in Oregon one of the more applicable charges may be Menacing as well as several other possibilities depending on the specific elements of the crime/offense." This could include the possibility of Disorderly Conduct as well as others.


I still would say that your CHL has nothing to do with carrying a rifle in your vehicle whether it is in Portland or somewhere else in Oregon. Portland City Code does state "3. A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun." That license is issued by Multnomah County through authority given by ORS (state) which means we are back to the operative word in ORS which is "HANDGUN". City Code can only be MORE restrictive than ORS. It can not supersede ORS and allow things that the state law does not, right?

I agree that this thread has gotten off of the initial question but this is only because people have been telling this individual that if he has his CHL he will be fine. As far as specific law relating to a loaded rifle, in a vehicle, within reach of the driver, I do not know. I personally would not do it. I would say use your CHL and carry a HANDGUN instead of a rifle and you will not have to worry about all this other discussion. Just my $.02.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 1:18:20 PM EDT
I just wonder why you would ever need to haul around a loaded firearm. Unless your police or something/DINT. Why would a civilian need to do that. Sounds like a bad idea. Road rage and any other things would be much easier to do, or some kid crawling in your truck and playing with it???
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:26:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:
what the heck... we are way off topic.

Menacing is a crime, the components of menacing are much different than accidentally showing your gun to someone or carrying openly.

People throw 'brandishing' around like it is a chargeable offence. "if someone sees your gun then you could be charged with brandishing." Horse shit. There is no such crime and Brandishing versus menacing... It isn't the same thing.

I'd say that based on the circumstances brandishing might lead to Disorderly Conduct charges... but probably not.





Thank god someone knows what the heck they are talking about in this thread. Someone please buy this man a beer.


Originally Posted By Knuckledragger:
Even with a Concealed permit you are required to keep the handgun exactly as it states - concealed.




As Gackman so elegantly put it - "Horse shit." This statement is 100% wrong. Before taking the time to spread falsehoods on the internet take the time to do some research. Granted, we all make mistakes from time to time, but by simply checking state laws you should realize that state law spells out that Oregon is

A) An open carry state.
B) The state law that allows cities/counties to restrict open carry specifically says that such bans DO NOT apply to CHL holders.
C) Both the City of Portland and City of Beaverton ordinances banning open carry have exemptions in the ordinances for CHL holders.



There, I feel better now.


Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:57:59 PM EDT
Thanks Glockamn i was starting to get a little peeved off about that..

NurseB if the person would be suspeptable to road rage i would sure hope they would excerse this with acceptable restrant. IE If they did Carry a loaded firearm in their car they would understand when and where to pull it out.. as would be the same with a CHL.. and if you have your childrian in the car and they are playing with a loaded rifle in your car then you need to be slaped so hard its not even funney..

Carrying a longarm in your car deffently has its advatange's over a standard CHL.. but more along the lines of a road block assualt or the like.. have peta show you the video of the officer that was guned down with a M1 Carbine, and i'm sure you'd understand a little bit better..



Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:36:35 PM EDT
im going to pop in here with a quick one...

handgun<backpack<trunk & unlocked go or no go? loaded?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:34:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 8:01:17 PM EDT by GackMan]

Originally Posted By Knuckledragger:
163.190 Menacing. (1) A person commits the crime of menacing if by word or conduct the person intentionally attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious physical injury.

(2) Menacing is a Class A misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §95]

Like I have said in each of my posts, I do not wish to get into a pissing match. I know that Menacing and Brandishing are not interchangeable terms. I was trying to avoid a pissing match by telling another poster that he was wrong, so I didn't. I also know that Brandishing is not a listed offense in the ORS. As I stated before "I used the term "brandishing" because most people have a general idea of the legal meaning of this term compared to the term "menacing". The word "legal" in that sentence may have been misleading in that it is not a "law" on the books. However, the term is used in some of the Case Law on exhibiting of weapons. I also stated "Yes, in Oregon one of the more applicable charges may be Menacing as well as several other possibilities depending on the specific elements of the crime/offense." This could include the possibility of Disorderly Conduct as well as others.


I still would say that your CHL has nothing to do with carrying a rifle in your vehicle whether it is in Portland or somewhere else in Oregon. Portland City Code does state "3. A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun." That license is issued by Multnomah County through authority given by ORS (state) which means we are back to the operative word in ORS which is "HANDGUN". City Code can only be MORE restrictive than ORS. It can not supersede ORS and allow things that the state law does not, right?

I agree that this thread has gotten off of the initial question but this is only because people have been telling this individual that if he has his CHL he will be fine. As far as specific law relating to a loaded rifle, in a vehicle, within reach of the driver, I do not know. I personally would not do it. I would say use your CHL and carry a HANDGUN instead of a rifle and you will not have to worry about all this other discussion. Just my $.02.



Hey man - don't worry about this being a pissing contest. This is a good conversation about the fucked up patchwork of legal challenges to carrying around Oregon.

The menacing/brandishing thing is a pet peeve of mine... I'm not saying you are doing this, but I can't count the number of times someone has said something like, "my CHL class instructor said that if the wind blows your shirt open and someone sees your gun you could be arrested for brandishing." UGH! just kills me.

like you pointed out - the Portland ordinance says that the law doesn't apply to people with a CHL.

C. The following are exceptions and constitute affirmative defenses to a violation of this Section:

...

3. A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.

...


It doesn't say "this law doesn't apply to people with CHL and only exempts them from carrying a concealed hand gun but not any other type of firearm and only concealed."

Every other exemption on the list of 10 is just as non-specific.

I agree that it was probably the intent to only cover CHL holders with hand guns. And I'm not going to volunteer to be a test case. But the law says that CHL holders are exempt. Don't read into the law, just read it out loud. Supposed to be in plain english... or so the legislators say.

I don't recommend carrying a long gun loaded in the passenger compartment of a vehicle. Hell, the cops have upright weapon locks and I don't think they keep one in the chamber. I'm sure they've thought about the practicality of maneuvering around inside a car with a weapon... I'm not going to lay my AR across the back seat w/ a round in the chamber. I figure my chances of getting in a shooting are a lot lower than getting in a crash - I've been in more crashes than shootings.


Originally Posted By EconBoy:
From the class I took at OFA it was clear that it was only a handgun license. Furthermore, it is legal to own and carry knives, but it's not legal to conceal a knife in a non-conspicuous place on your body. The Oregon CHL has nothing to do with anything other than Handguns.

I guarantee you will be cited or more if you drive with a loaded rifle around Portland. Not that I agree with it but I think we can agree on that.



The state CHL law just gives you the license to carry a pistol. Correct. Then the cityordinances (Portland and Beaverton are the only ones I have copies of) restrict the carry of weapons in public, and in both cases the law exempts CHL holders from the restriction. It is not specific to the type of firearm or any of that, only that the law doesn't apply to CHL holders. I hope nobody on Bv or Portland council is reading this... or they'll probably vote in a change.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:35:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Anarx:
Thanks Glockamn i was starting to get a little peeved off about that..



You're quite welcome.


Originally Posted By christ0ph:
im going to pop in here with a quick one...

handgun<backpack<trunk & unlocked go or no go? loaded?



The law you are trying to avoid breaking if you don't have a CHL is:

166.250 Unlawful possession of firearms.: "a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:"..."(b) Possesses a handgun that is concealed and readily accessible to the person within any vehicle;"

Locked in the trunk shouldn't be a problem. If you can flip the seat down and easily reach through, maybe. It does not appear that loaded/unloaded makes a difference. Now you could just keep the handgun on the seat or dash and a police officer would have a hard time articulating that your handgun was "concealed". Readily accessible, yes. Concealed, no.

Also notice that the law doesn't mention restrictions on rifles in a vehicle. If you want an answer you can count on get a lawyer.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:37:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:

I don't recommend carrying a long gun loaded in the passenger compartment of a vehicle. Hell, the cops have upright weapon locks and I don't think they keep one in the chamber. I'm sure they've thought about the practicality of maneuvering around inside a car with a weapon... I'm not going to lay my AR across the back seat w/ a round in the chamber. I figure my chances of getting in a shooting are a lot lower than getting in a crash - I've been in more crashes than shootings.




I tell ya, someone needs to buy this man a beer.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:52:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:23:58 AM EDT by Knuckledragger]
I just wanted to thank GackMan as well as others for some great thought provoking info. When I am wrong on an issue I have no problem admitting it. In this case it appears that I am wrong. h.gif At least, I think I am. hat). I do know for certain that when you are on the witness stand (assuming your publicly appointed counsel is stupid enough to put you there) ignorance of the law is no defense. Additionally, just because you interpret the law one way, does not mean that the judge/state will be understanding of your differing legal opinion. Good times and good shooting.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:05:28 AM EDT
Well I would say that you did bring up a good point Knuckle, while I don’t think one would be convicted of Unlawful possession of a firearm (from my interpretation), I am sure there is something else that an officer who was determined to get you out of the publics sight right then could charge you with. While menacing seems likely, I don’t think it could be charged as your not intentionally placing another in fear. I wonder what else you might be able to be charged with, I haven’t looked into it yet, but disturbing the peace comes to mind.

Are there any officers that can comment on this?

(Good job guys by the way on keeping this discussion civil!)
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:47:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Knuckledragger:
When I am wrong on an issue I have no problem admitting it. In this case it appears that I am wrong. At least, I think I am.



Alright, someone buy this guy a beer too. I apologize for sounding like an ass, I do that sometimes.

While we might argue about the legalities of open carry in Portland/Beaverton, the reality is that I wouldn't recommend it. Little good can come from it and just because you might understand the details of the laws, doesn't mean the LEO that responds to a call of a man with a gun is going to be 100% familiar with the laws regarding concealed/open carry. At the very least, you will be having a friendly chat with Johnny Law every time some granola eater calls 911. (Nothing against people who eat granola.) Stealth is a tactical advantage that one should not give up unless necessary. However, CHL holders in Oregon do not have to fear prosecution in Oregon because they bend over and someone sees their gun in the grocery store.

It's kind of like the original question. While legal to carry a loaded rifle in the car, I wouldn't recommend it. BTW I just noticed that your profile says you are located in WA. FWIW Washington does have a law against carrying a rifle loaded in a vehicle.


Originally Posted By CubDriver:
I am sure there is something else that an officer who was determined to get you out of the publics sight right then could charge you with.



I'm not an officer, but I generally believe you are correct. The officer may not be correct, you may not be prosecuted, but if you are arrested your firearm will end up in the evidence room. My strategy: Yes sir, I'm sorry sir, I didn't realize that sir, avoid going to jail, then file a complaint, contact OFA, and consider lawyering up if needed.

I'll try to revert to being civil.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:29:11 AM EDT
45glockman - Yes, I am in Washington. I am in that "just across the river" situation. I work in Oregon and carry concealed/shoot in both states. By the way, thanks for the suds! I realize that the issue of carry/ownership of firearms is a passionate topic for many people. Thanks for the discussion and input! I look forward to many more debates/discussions/arguments/etc.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:59:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Anarx:
Thanks Glockamn i was starting to get a little peeved off about that..

NurseB if the person would be suspeptable to road rage i would sure hope they would excerse this with acceptable restrant. IE If they did Carry a loaded firearm in their car they would understand when and where to pull it out.. as would be the same with a CHL.. and if you have your childrian in the car and they are playing with a loaded rifle in your car then you need to be slaped so hard its not even funney..

Carrying a longarm in your car deffently has its advatange's over a standard CHL.. but more along the lines of a road block assualt or the like.. have peta show you the video of the officer that was guned down with a M1 Carbine, and i'm sure you'd understand a little bit better..

You must not have kids, I agree, the person should be slapped, but kids are fast and tricky.


Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:54:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NurseB:
Originally Posted By Anarx:
Thanks Glockamn i was starting to get a little peeved off about that..

NurseB if the person would be suspeptable to road rage i would sure hope they would excerse this with acceptable restrant. IE If they did Carry a loaded firearm in their car they would understand when and where to pull it out.. as would be the same with a CHL.. and if you have your childrian in the car and they are playing with a loaded rifle in your car then you need to be slaped so hard its not even funney..

Carrying a longarm in your car deffently has its advatange's over a standard CHL.. but more along the lines of a road block assualt or the like.. have peta show you the video of the officer that was guned down with a M1 Carbine, and i'm sure you'd understand a little bit better..

You must not have kids, I agree, the person should be slapped, but kids are fast and tricky.




no i dont have kids.. the only thing that pops into my mind is that if Children are in the car a loaded firearm should be out of their reach to begian with.. i know firearms safety was drilled into me as a kid myself..

after i went over my statement i feel it might have come off rude.. that was not my intention and apologize if it came off that way.

Jess
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:51:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CubDriver:
Well I would say that you did bring up a good point Knuckle, while I don’t think one would be convicted of Unlawful possession of a firearm (from my interpretation), I am sure there is something else that an officer who was determined to get you out of the publics sight right then could charge you with. While menacing seems likely, I don’t think it could be charged as your not intentionally placing another in fear. I wonder what else you might be able to be charged with, I haven’t looked into it yet, but disturbing the peace comes to mind.

Are there any officers that can comment on this?

(Good job guys by the way on keeping this discussion civil!)



As to the original question, it is legal everywhere in the state except for certain cities and some hunting regulations. I think we can all agree on that.

If someone sees a gun - open carry, in your vehicle, whatever - and calls 911, the cops will have to come and investigate. That is just too much liability for an agency or a dispatcher to just toss in the bit bucket and ignore. Especially if it is a soccer mom calling talking all hysterically not giving them much info.

Because it is illegal in those cities, until the cops contact you and you guys have the whole CHL discussion, they'll act as though you are in violation of the law until they confirm otherwise (you telling them some guy on the internet said it is legal isn't going to cut it ). At the end of it, I don't think you'll be arrested, and even less likely you'll get charged with a crime. You might be detained until things get sorted out, and it might piss you off, but it will be totally legal for the cops to put the grab on you. Making the decision to carry openly or have a long gun in your vehicle should be in your risk/decision process. "If someone sees my gun, Beaverton PD might come and point guns at me and make me late for work."

The thing is, in any city with a no open carry ordinance... they have plenty of cops. We're not talking about getting stopped out in Wasco Co. So the chances of some rookie grabbing you and hauling you off before someone older, wiser, and more experienced gets there and sorts shit out is pretty slim.

I really like Rule #4 from firearmstactical.com's rules for concealed carry. "Display your gun, go to jail."

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:37:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 1:39:01 PM EDT by kythri]

Originally Posted By NoAim:

Originally Posted By briansmithwins:
I don't believe carrying a loaded rifle in a car is illegal. It may start pushing up against one of my personal laws: Never frighten a policeman.



I agree.

Even though it's not required, I'm sure it comes up on their computer if they run your license. As a result my plan is that if I get pulled over and need to show my license, I'll also pull out the CHL with it. Up until then though, I haven't said a word about any weapons in the car.

Of course, once the office sees the CHL, the next question out of his mouth will be....



Not positive if it comes up when they run the ODL. A State Trooper friend couldn't say with any certainty.

(EDIT)He was pretty sure that the information comes up on his computer screen, but wasn't 100% positive. (/EDIT)

As far as the data-sharing between the Police and the DMV, I can say that the CHL information is not linked to your license plate - i.e. when they pull you over, and walk up to the window, they don't know that the owner of the vehicle does or does not have a CHL.

I've found that it's always been beneficial to volunteer that I do have one, however. Every single time I've volunteered, I've been let off with a warning. (I used to be a bit of a lead-footed driver.)

The one time I chose not to volunteer (wasn't packing that day, so, really, no need), the trooper didn't ask me any questions about it, didn't act out of the ordinary. This would lead me to believe that they don't have this information (or the trooper missed it/ignored it).
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:29:35 AM EDT
I don't believe that it comes up in the system linked to your ODL or license plate number. Now, when they take your info (Name, DOB, etc.) and plug it into LEDS/NCIC on a search for "Wants/Warrants", it will appear in LEDS as an application date for a CHL. I do not remember if it shows an issue date. I believe that the "Wants/Warrants" check is standard practice on most LEO contacts. To me, this means that the LEO who has just taken my info, and is sitting in his car running my info, is shortly going to be wondering "Does this guy have a gun on him? Why didn't he tell me?" I have always made it a practice to keep my hands on the steering wheel and let them know that I have a CHL and whether the gun is on me or not at the start of the conversation. To me this says "I am being honest, straight forward, and I have nothing to hide." This has always provided a positive outcome for me. Only one ticket ever and I have yet to be shot.
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