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Posted: 1/7/2006 5:51:23 PM EDT
I dont have a CC license, and wont have one for another 6 months.

OSU won't even let me carry a handgun on campus even if I'm able. But that's another story all together.

My question is regarding knife carry on a person. Is there a legal length criteria. OSU regulations require a knife must be folding and not automatic. Not sure of their stance on spring assisted, but I'll stear clear of the matter and just get a CRKT M16 model. It's my first choice anyway, so thats not much of a problem.

I'd like to know if the 9.25" fully open, with a 3.9" blade is too big to carry clipped to a pocket? Or should I step down one model to the 8.25" fully open with a 3.5" blade, or even down one further to the 7.3" fully open, with 3" blade?

Any thoughts or links to some actual laws regarding this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:56:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 11:05:50 PM EDT by PromptCritical]
I would have to checkk the actual statutes, but IIRC Oregon has no laws against the carrying of any sort of knives. You can carry a machete if you like. A cop I know told me a short while ago that Oregon is one of the few states that does not ban switchblades or other spring knives.

If you want to check for your self, just Google "Oregon revised statutes". You might also need to look at local ordinances.

I'll see what I can find.

I am not a lawyer, so YMMV...

Edit To Add: Relevent Statute:


166.240 Carrying of concealed weapons. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring or by centrifugal force, any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slungshot, metal knuckles, or any similar instrument by the use of which injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person, commits a Class B misdemeanor.

(2) Nothing in subsection (1) of this section applies to any peace officer as defined in ORS 133.005, whose duty it is to serve process or make arrests. Justice courts have concurrent jurisdiction to try any person charged with violating any of the provisions of subsection (1) of this section. [Amended by 1977 c.454 §1; 1985 c.543 §2; 1989 c.839 §21; 1999 c.1040 §15]




Oregon has no laws regarding blade length or possession. The above weapons may be legally possessed, they just may not be carried concealed. It would appear that any of those knives listed in your post would be legal to carry, as long as they are not spring operated.

Once again, not a lawyer, YMMV.

FWIW, I carry a Spyderco Delica everywhere I go, but I seem to have misplaced the damn thing.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 11:35:05 PM EDT
I would sugest carrying a Kershaw Assisted opening.. as that is not technicaly an automatic knife.

thats also a good part of the reason why i like kershaws so much..

Jess
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:47:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Anarx:
I would sugest carrying a Kershaw Assisted opening.. as that is not technicaly an automatic knife.

thats also a good part of the reason why i like kershaws so much..

Jess



Blah blah blah kershawblah...
Buy a Benchade or Reeves and never look back.

I have a couple kershaws I will sell ya!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:59:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 11:03:18 AM EDT by GackMan]
no specific blade length.

autos or double bladed stuff can't be concealed.

the law is significantly vague that a good prosecutor could charge you for carrying a concealed 'spring assisted' knife. it doesn't say "only by force of spring"... so even a little force is some force of the spring opening the knife.

but realistically, you'd have to be doing something else to get into trouble with the knife to get charged with any crime. cops and DAs offices are too busy to mess around with that kind of stuff.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:14:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:
no specific blade length.

autos or double bladed stuff can't be concealed.

the law is significantly vague that a good prosecutor could charge you for carrying a concealed 'spring assisted' knife. it doesn't say "only by force of spring"... so even a little force is some force of the spring opening the knife.

but realistically, you'd have to be doing something else to get into trouble with the knife to get charged with any crime. cops and DAs offices are too busy to mess around with that kind of stuff.




Thats what I like about you, always interjecting logic into the threads!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:58:29 PM EDT
***not legal advice***

During my CHL class, the discussion turned to auto knives...
LEO Instructor basically stated that, as long as it has an exposed pocket-clip, I'd be OK.

Daggers, dirks, all around "stabby things" were pretty frowned upon, but
a general purpose knife, automatic, fixed or otherwise was just fine.


...my experience



Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:10:16 PM EDT
Allright cape i'll give ya 10 bux for them
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:49:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Anarx:
Allright cape i'll give ya 10 bux for them



I'll up that to $11!
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:07:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JE3146:
OSU won't even let me carry a handgun on campus even if I'm able. But that's another story all together.
crkt.com/images/M16ALUM06.jpg



This is not legal advice but...

OSU and the rest of the Oregon Higher Education institutions can pound sand!!!
Search ORS for 166.370 (1) thru (3).

Specifically 166.390 (3)(d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

This is very clear and simple to understand in that the CHL holder is exempt. The schools (all public Oregon Schools K thru college) may "want to prohibit" but are not legal to do so. Print this section out, laminate it, and carry in your wallet for "Mr. Security" at OSU when you obtain your CHL.

I do not care to discuss the "what am I going to do if I get caught" questions. It's concealed.... if you need it are you more concerned about defending your liberty or your life?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:45:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 8:46:23 PM EDT by JE3146]

Originally Posted By OrARGB:

Originally Posted By JE3146:
OSU won't even let me carry a handgun on campus even if I'm able. But that's another story all together.
crkt.com/images/M16ALUM06.jpg



This is not legal advice but...

OSU and the rest of the Oregon Higher Education institutions can pound sand!!!
Search ORS for 166.370 (1) thru (3).

Specifically 166.390 (3)(d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

This is very clear and simple to understand in that the CHL holder is exempt. The schools (all public Oregon Schools K thru college) may "want to prohibit" but are not legal to do so. Print this section out, laminate it, and carry in your wallet for "Mr. Security" at OSU when you obtain your CHL.

I do not care to discuss the "what am I going to do if I get caught" questions. It's concealed.... if you need it are you more concerned about defending your liberty or your life?




Yea I've pondered the thought. And to cover my ass, I'll say that I will not carry.

I've read the Oregon constitution on the matter, and I agree that the OSU rules and regulations can pound sand. I abide by the constitution set forth by the state, not the school, if you catch my drift.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:56:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
***not legal advice***

During my CHL class, the discussion turned to auto knives...
LEO Instructor basically stated that, as long as it has an exposed pocket-clip, I'd be OK.




Then does the knife become "concealed" if you put a jacket on? A couple of the LEOs I've asked at PR said its a judgement call then. All of them said they don't peek under people's coats looking for the pocket clip, but would find it during a body search. They would need other good reasons to search you.

Correct interpretation or a problem waiting to happen (for me)?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:37:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JE3146:

Originally Posted By OrARGB:

Originally Posted By JE3146:
OSU won't even let me carry a handgun on campus even if I'm able. But that's another story all together.
crkt.com/images/M16ALUM06.jpg



This is not legal advice but...

OSU and the rest of the Oregon Higher Education institutions can pound sand!!!
Search ORS for 166.370 (1) thru (3).

Specifically 166.390 (3)(d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

This is very clear and simple to understand in that the CHL holder is exempt. The schools (all public Oregon Schools K thru college) may "want to prohibit" but are not legal to do so. Print this section out, laminate it, and carry in your wallet for "Mr. Security" at OSU when you obtain your CHL.

I do not care to discuss the "what am I going to do if I get caught" questions. It's concealed.... if you need it are you more concerned about defending your liberty or your life?




Yea I've pondered the thought. And to cover my ass, I'll say that I will not carry.

I've read the Oregon constitution on the matter, and I agree that the OSU rules and regulations can pound sand. I abide by the constitution set forth by the state, not the school, if you catch my drift.



They can tell you that you can't carry. You are not breaking a law by carrying, but you are breaking their rules. And if they ask you to leave because of it, then you must. If you ever get caught with it and they decide to expel you, that is also their perogative.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:45:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 11:48:26 AM EDT by KeptKirk]
The fact isnt its illegal to carry on campus, its that its their campus. Just like any store or bank they can throw you off the proporty for whatever they want and theyve prohibited firearms.

Not saying I agree, but just how it was explained to me :)

*edit*
sorry had this window open for a bit here at work and didnt notice what I wrote was basically stated above :P
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:05:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 12:05:43 PM EDT by kythri]

Originally Posted By KeptKirk:
The fact isnt its illegal to carry on campus, its that its their campus. Just like any store or bank they can throw you off the proporty for whatever they want and theyve prohibited firearms.



It's not their's, and that's where the issue is.

It's public property. Oregon law is very clear - our state preemption prohibits anyone from regulating the carry of firearms, concealed or otherwise, except as expressly authorized by the legislature - i.e., there has to be a written law, not "rule", that gives the specific body specific permission to regulate such.

Most stores or banks are private property, hence, they can make you do the hokey-pokey to enter their property, if they see fit.

As far as knife carry goes, we only have the one single law, as posted by PromptCritical.

Bernard Levine (www.knife-expert.com) is a pretty knowledgable guy, and as he claims on his webpage, is called quite often to provide "expert" testimony on knives in court cases all the time (I've independently verified this).

As I've come to understand it, the only legally concealed-carryable blade is a folding knife.

Fixed-blade knives are considered dirks or daggers (depending on size - a dirk is a "small, readily concealable dagger"), so that eliminates them right there.

Folders don't fall into the ice pick, slingshot or metal knuckles (or similiar instrument) category, so you have to examine your folder based on the rest of the characteristics.

Specifically, "having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring, or by centrifugal force"

Spring loaded is easy - if you've got an auto-knife, it's not legal to carry concealed.

The final part is where people get hammered (at least with quota-hungry cops).

A knife that has a blade that projects or swings into position by centrifugal force.

I have a knife that can be opened by flicking my wrist. Presto, centrifugal force. Technically, this knife is illegal to carry.

The problem, these days, is a lot of knives have some kind of opening assist or don't lock themselves closed, so they can be opened as such.

I was advised that if I'm ever stopped and searched, and an officer asks me to open my knife, that I use both hands to slowly and carefully open the knife and lock it back, rather than flick it open with my wrist, as there's quite a few people in the Multnomah County Jail who have been hammered for this.

Of course, it was also pointed out that these same people were stopped for any of a number of reasons, and that's the only charge they could use to hold them.

Realisitically, if you're not being a douche, any reasonable folding knife should be just fine and dandy.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:50:48 PM EDT
It may not be theirs and it may be public proporty but it doesnt seem to matter.

Ive been held then suspended from school for carrying a knife on grounds AFTER school hours.
Ive been suspended for having a knife within 300 feet of a school yard during school.
Ive had the PPS (portland public police) called on me and tell me to leave a park that has a school on it (I was probably 500 yards from the school) because I had a knife.

Mind you I wasnt sitting there flipping it around and carving in tables. The first time I had just taken it out to show my friend and some kids told on me. The second time, within 300 feet I was just whittling a stick to a point cause I was bored(7 years after the first incident), the other time (3rd) it was a 4.5 inch blade in a sheath on my belt. (visable) and I hadnt even taken it out. Was probably 3 years ago at probably 8:30 at night.

I guess my point is, unless someone complains your fine. True thats not the law, just how it seems to work.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:52:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KeptKirk:
Mind you I wasnt sitting there flipping it around and carving in tables



But that's what you're supposed to do with pocket knives!

Who hasn't seen: "Lisa Sucks c***" carved into a picnic table?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:17:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kythri:
Originally Posted By KeptKirk:


Fixed-blade knives are considered dirks or daggers (depending on size - a dirk is a "small, readily concealable dagger"), so that eliminates them right there.




There is Oregon case law that contradicts this. To fall under the dirk or dagger clasification, it was ruled it must be designed specifically for stabbing. That's where the double edge comes in. I'd have to dig out my course materials from CEOTWK for the case number. There has been quite a bit of discussion on oregonconcealedcarry.com about knife legality.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 12:07:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 12:10:04 AM EDT by GackMan]

Originally Posted By kythri:
I was advised that if I'm ever stopped and searched, and an officer asks me to open my knife, that I use both hands to slowly and carefully open the knife and lock it back, rather than flick it open with my wrist, as there's quite a few people in the Multnomah County Jail who have been hammered for this.



Is that a joke? what else were they being arrested for at the time?

that is fucking stupid - what kind of cop asks a suspect/subject of an investigation to handle and present a weapon and then subsequently arrest them for it? that is wrong like 2 boys fucking. Sounds like a good way for the cop to get stabbed or the knife owner to get shot.

The MC DA's office takes fucked up cases like that and tries to prosecute them?

You really know people who have been arrested by police in Oregon who were instructed by the police to handle a weapon in their presence?

what agency and what time frame? what are these "quite a few" people's names? when were they lodged into MCSO Jail? when were they arraigned? what was the outcome of the trial?

Sorry man, I just don't believe you. stop scaring the college kid.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:44:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 11:45:14 AM EDT by kythri]

Originally Posted By GackMan:

Originally Posted By kythri:
I was advised that if I'm ever stopped and searched, and an officer asks me to open my knife, that I use both hands to slowly and carefully open the knife and lock it back, rather than flick it open with my wrist, as there's quite a few people in the Multnomah County Jail who have been hammered for this.



Is that a joke? what else were they being arrested for at the time?

that is fucking stupid - what kind of cop asks a suspect/subject of an investigation to handle and present a weapon and then subsequently arrest them for it? that is wrong like 2 boys fucking. Sounds like a good way for the cop to get stabbed or the knife owner to get shot.

The MC DA's office takes fucked up cases like that and tries to prosecute them?

You really know people who have been arrested by police in Oregon who were instructed by the police to handle a weapon in their presence?

what agency and what time frame? what are these "quite a few" people's names? when were they lodged into MCSO Jail? when were they arraigned? what was the outcome of the trial?

Sorry man, I just don't believe you. stop scaring the college kid.



OK, don't believe me - I could give a rat's ass less.

Re-read what I said.


I was advised.



Of course, it was also pointed out that these same people were stopped for any of a number of reasons, and that's the only charge they could use to hold them.


A question was asked. I was relating information that I knew, and information that had been given to me.

secure.hop.com/
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:49:21 AM EDT
Oh, and if anyone cares, a good amount of my information has come from speaking with Bernard Levine:

www.knife-expert.com/

pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/auth.txt

He was reccomended to me by three different lawyers who have had cause to deal with him, and who I trust.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:52:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By last_mile2002:
Then does the knife become "concealed" if you put a jacket on? A couple of the LEOs I've asked at PR said its a judgement call then. All of them said they don't peek under people's coats looking for the pocket clip, but would find it during a body search. They would need other good reasons to search you.

Correct interpretation or a problem waiting to happen (for me)?



Per Bernard Levine, regarding concealed carry of knives:


"Concealed" is not defined in the statute (for that matter, neither is dirk or dagger), so
its applicability is a matter for a trier of fact (jury or judge) to decide -- a situation
to be avoided.
For example, is a knife inside its sheath concealed? Conceivably...

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