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Posted: 12/11/2005 3:07:58 PM EDT
was going up there to shoot with some guys today, and the rock crushing equip was still there and didnt look like there were gonna pull out any time soon. Talked with a Tillamook Co sheriff there and he said that they might not open it back up to shooting. So my 1/2 hour drive out there was wasted. He said they (the rock crushing co) weren't terribly happy with people bringing out junk all the time, shooting it up and leaving it there. Guess they dont like it goin trough their rock crushers. But I can understand were they are coming from. Regardless, I gotta go out to the grand parents' 30yd "range" out in mountaindale and run a few through my new 40cal glock. this would kinda suck for the group shoot. Might have to find a new location for it.
peace

dave
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 4:46:05 PM EDT
JAN shoot back up plan in the works.........
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 5:30:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 5:56:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:
Did you have a P E R M I T ?



'

STOP RIGHT THERE. STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 7:29:00 PM EDT
Mameloose or whatever it's called is not bad a place to shoot but it's gravel pit is very short ranged.(75-100 at best). however you have room to park like 25 cars next to each other.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:14:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:19:36 PM EDT
There is a couple quarries on the other side of the summit from browns camp off of idiot creek rd, I was gonna check em out over thanksgiving, but i took a wrong turn and wound up out in the middle of nowhere. once the snow melts more up there I will go exploring more and see what i can scope out. I also know that there are a couple more quarries across the hwy from browns, but i need to do more exploring. Its nice having ODF produced maps.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:25:27 PM EDT
There is a smaller spot near Jone's Camp and a place called Diamond Camp. Out 26 instead of 6.

A little farther out, but pretty quiet.



Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:58:04 PM EDT
Went up today, they said they should be done at the end of this week.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:06:45 AM EDT
You know, this is the second time I have heard someone relate that the a county sheriff deputy has claimed that "they may close it to shooting".

I wonder if its the same deputy each time?
I also wonder if this is just a personal opinion of his?
And then I go on to wonder where the sheriff might think he would get the authority to do any such thing? I don't believe that he has any such authority.

Comments?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:28:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
You know, this is the second time I have heard someone relate that the a county sheriff deputy has claimed that "they may close it to shooting".

I wonder if its the same deputy each time?
I also wonder if this is just a personal opinion of his?
And then I go on to wonder where the sheriff might think he would get the authority to do any such thing? I don't believe that he has any such authority.

Comments?



It's definitely possible that it's the same deputy every time. I'm not familiar with how Tilamook County assigns their deputies, but it's likely that only a few work that area.

While it might be his personal opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if they do close it to shooting. Imagine how much crap they have to clean up every time they need to re-open the quarry. If all the shooters would clean up after themselves I doubt it would be an issue at all. In fact, I'd think they'd be happier if most shooters went to the same quarry to shoot.

I'm not sure how the jurisdiction works for state lands, but since the Sheriff is the Chief LEO for the county, it's likely his input to the State would carry a lot of weight.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:05:11 AM EDT
Memaloose!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:29:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By watchdawg:

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
You know, this is the second time I have heard someone relate that the a county sheriff deputy has claimed that "they may close it to shooting".

I wonder if its the same deputy each time?
I also wonder if this is just a personal opinion of his?
And then I go on to wonder where the sheriff might think he would get the authority to do any such thing? I don't believe that he has any such authority.

Comments?



It's definitely possible that it's the same deputy every time. I'm not familiar with how Tilamook County assigns their deputies, but it's likely that only a few work that area.

While it might be his personal opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if they do close it to shooting. Imagine how much crap they have to clean up every time they need to re-open the quarry. If all the shooters would clean up after themselves I doubt it would be an issue at all. In fact, I'd think they'd be happier if most shooters went to the same quarry to shoot.

I'm not sure how the jurisdiction works for state lands, but since the Sheriff is the Chief LEO for the county, it's likely his input to the State would carry a lot of weight.



I won't speak for others, but most of the people I shoot with pack out more trash than they brought in. However I have witnessed many a folk leave their mess, particularly the computer shooters.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:45:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By watchdawg:

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
You know, this is the second time I have heard someone relate that the a county sheriff deputy has claimed that "they may close it to shooting".

I wonder if its the same deputy each time?
I also wonder if this is just a personal opinion of his?
And then I go on to wonder where the sheriff might think he would get the authority to do any such thing? I don't believe that he has any such authority.

Comments?



It's definitely possible that it's the same deputy every time. I'm not familiar with how Tilamook County assigns their deputies, but it's likely that only a few work that area.

While it might be his personal opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if they do close it to shooting. Imagine how much crap they have to clean up every time they need to re-open the quarry. If all the shooters would clean up after themselves I doubt it would be an issue at all. In fact, I'd think they'd be happier if most shooters went to the same quarry to shoot.

I'm not sure how the jurisdiction works for state lands, but since the Sheriff is the Chief LEO for the county, it's likely his input to the State would carry a lot of weight.



You know, one buldozer, 15 minutes scrapeing the crap together, and its done.
The fresh stuff they dig out comes from the side walls, not from the floor of the quarry.

Cleaning up isn't that big a deal, and will happen shooters or not, illegal dumping always takes place. That said, there are people who leave far too much crap behind.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:55:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ultvikefan:


I won't speak for others, but most of the people I shoot with pack out more trash than they brought in. However I have witnessed many a folk leave their mess, particularly the computer shooters.



That's a good habit to get into, and I do the same. Unfortunately, not everyone does.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:23:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:

You know, one buldozer, 15 minutes scrapeing the crap together, and its done.
The fresh stuff they dig out comes from the side walls, not from the floor of the quarry.

Cleaning up isn't that big a deal, and will happen shooters or not, illegal dumping always takes place. That said, there are people who leave far too much crap behind.




Ah, since it might only take 15 minutes with a dozer it's ok to leave a mess? Hmmm. What about
the costs of the dozer? What about the salary for the operator? Then they have to haul it off somewhere and pay to legally dump it. This all costs money, and I could definitely see the state closing the pit just to avoid paying these fees(or at least using this as an excuse to do so).

I doubt there would be a significant amount of illegal dumping in the pit at Brown's camp if it weren't a shooting venue.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:30:06 AM EDT
We have begun to shoot on tarps to catch our brass and shoot fruit to avoid making a mess with targets.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:47:08 AM EDT
Just one more reason for me not to go!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:23:49 AM EDT



I doubt there would be a significant amount of illegal dumping in the pit at Brown's camp if it weren't a shooting venue.




Don't bet on it. Illegal dumpers will dump anyway. Shooters, as you must have read above, clean up not only after themselves, but after others. So if there wasn't any shooters, who would clean up? No shooters equals more trash, IMO.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:42:05 AM EDT
I just truly hope that they don't close it down. I don't know of any other place that I'd be able to take ALL of my toys to. That and it's so well known that there will almost always be someone else there to hang out with between shots!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:50:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By munkalido:


Don't bet on it. Illegal dumpers will dump anyway. Shooters, as you must have read above, clean up not only after themselves, but after others. So if there wasn't any shooters, who would clean up? No shooters equals more trash, IMO.



Why dump in that pit when you can just dump on the side of the road? I don't see a lot of material that wasn't a target, casings, or ammo box laying around the pit at brown's camp.

I have to disagree with your comment about "Shooters" too. There are those who pick
up after themselves, and those who even pick up after other shooters, but there are enough shooters who leave their litter that your generallization about Shooters above is out in left field.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:37:21 PM EDT
So is it open yet? Will it open this week? What's the latest? Any new signs posted?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:32:46 PM EDT

Just one more reason for me not to go!


Stop being difficult!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:51:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:

Just one more reason for me not to go!


Stop being difficult!



blah blah blah. Easy for you to say mister "only 30 minutes away!"
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:52:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:18:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:

Just one more reason for me not to go!


Stop being difficult!



blah blah blah. Easy for you to say mister "only 30 minutes away!"



Ok guys, I think the only way to handle it will be with Airsoft at fifty paces.



Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:28:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:

First off, no way in hell would the state haul a cat or a hoe up there just to clean up some brass. Who ever gets the bid to blow the pit and crush the rock has the "clean up" built into thier bids. It's common with an "open" area such as browns. The "trash" is usually put into the overburden and buried, larger items would require a haul, but I did not see any appliances or cars up there last Oct.

Now as for the illegal cumping, the reason why there isn't more there is becuase it is so visible, I'll bet you a dollar to a turd if you walked the roads up to the pit and looked down the bank there is more dumping going on than is visible. Folks would rather spend $10 in fuel and go up in the woods to dump a frige or tires than pay the fee at the local landfill. From what I've seen of Brown's too, there is too much traffic to get away with it.



Well, we can debate forever if the pit would be cleaner with or without shooters, but the only way we'll find out is if the mess/hassle gives the authorities reason to close it. I personally disagree that brown's camp would be a hot zone for illegal dumping if people didn't shoot there all the time. I frequent several gravel pits and quarries around Brown's Camp, Sheridan Peak, and Timber, and they all have quite a bit of shooting debris and virtually no illegal dumping.

Here's my take on the issue. Shooters leave a bunch of crap behind and that's just plain wrong. Whether or not the pits would be cleaner without shooters doesn't make a difference, if it's carried in, it should be carried out. When we leave a mess behind, all we do is provide ammo to those who would limit our ability to shoot on public land, and they don't need any help.

Just my $.02.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:38:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:23:24 PM EDT
bring a roll of garbage bags... bag up the garbage as you go, toss the full bags in the back of someone's truck.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:26:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:
bring a roll of garbage bags... bag up the garbage as you go, toss the full bags in the back of someone's truck.




Yep. Last time ilike9s and Nox had a lot of that honor.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:13:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:

Agreed 100%

Now how do we change the way we leave it w/o making it too much hassle for everyone to enjoy?
I do not want this to be viewed as a big PIA to our members, the more the merrier, right?



If cleaning up after themselves is a big PIA to our members, maybe we need better members! ;-)

I don't expect that we can pick up everything we bring. We'll miss some brass, and we obviously
aren't picking up the bullets we've sent down range, but we can do our best. As someone else mentioned, we can set up tarps to help catch brass, we can make sure to retrieve the targets we set out. We can bag up empty ammo boxes, wrappers, etc. as we empty them.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:38:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 6:39:47 AM EDT by Cape_hunter]

Originally Posted By watchdawg:

Originally Posted By petagunner:

Agreed 100%

Now how do we change the way we leave it w/o making it too much hassle for everyone to enjoy?
I do not want this to be viewed as a big PIA to our members, the more the merrier, right?



If cleaning up after themselves is a big PIA to our members, maybe we need better members! ;-)

I don't expect that we can pick up everything we bring. We'll miss some brass, and we obviously
aren't picking up the bullets we've sent down range, but we can do our best. As someone else mentioned, we can set up tarps to help catch brass, we can make sure to retrieve the targets we set out. We can bag up empty ammo boxes, wrappers, etc. as we empty them.




I think your missing his point. Its not that he is saying its a PIA to clean up your own mess, its the other peoples mess I think he is referring to. I do know that Petagunner is VERY concious about the forest and its well beging.

This is kinda like a plane crash. You only here about the plane crash but never hear about hte thousands of planes that fly each day without inceident. EVERY single event I have attended we hauled out more then we brought in. The trouble lies with the people that shoot there the other 360 days a year. I know becuase I was the first person at the pit at the last shoot. It was already TRASHED, BAD. And there was a fire burning in the parking area. Bottom line is our shoots do far more good for that pit then harm and if it is closed it wont be because of us.

CH
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:51:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

Originally Posted By watchdawg:

Originally Posted By petagunner:

Agreed 100%

Now how do we change the way we leave it w/o making it too much hassle for everyone to enjoy?
I do not want this to be viewed as a big PIA to our members, the more the merrier, right?



If cleaning up after themselves is a big PIA to our members, maybe we need better members! ;-)

I don't expect that we can pick up everything we bring. We'll miss some brass, and we obviously
aren't picking up the bullets we've sent down range, but we can do our best. As someone else mentioned, we can set up tarps to help catch brass, we can make sure to retrieve the targets we set out. We can bag up empty ammo boxes, wrappers, etc. as we empty them.




I think your missing his point. Its not that he is saying its a PIA to clean up your own mess, its the other peoples mess I think he is referring to. I do know that Petagunner is VERY concious about the forest and its well beging.

CH



Well, I made the comment that we should carry out what we carry in, and his comment asked me how we should do that without being a PIA to our members. I assumed that he saw agreed that we could do a better job cleaning up that we did in the past. I could definitely have misunderstood his point.

I think it's clear that we all want what is best for the pit and our ability to shoot there. If we can try to clean up after ourselves(the stuff we bring in, not the stuff that's already there), and a few of us continue to haul out more than we brought in, this will go a long way towards maintaining our rights to shoot there.

I haven't attended any of the arf.com shoots out there (yet), so none of my comments above were intended to suggest that arf.com'ers make a mess and don't clean it up. However, some people do, and I think it's best for us to set a good example.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:58:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By watchdawg:
I think it's best for us to set a good example.



So far, we have. You have to remember, we are there as a group a few times a year. Thats 3-4 days max. That is a very small portion of the time this place gets used. Hard for us to be held accountable given the fact we leave it cleaner then we found it those 3-4 times.
CH
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:05:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

Originally Posted By watchdawg:
I think it's best for us to set a good example.



So far, we have. You have to remember, we are there as a group a few times a year. Thats 3-4 days max. That is a very small portion of the time this place gets used. Hard for us to be held accountable given the fact we leave it cleaner then we found it those 3-4 times.
CH



I've never suggested that arf.com'ers should be held accountable for the mess in the pit. I have however suggested that Shooters in general are the reason it's a mess. I'm glad to hear our group shoots are setting a good example!!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:14:21 AM EDT
So the real question.... If they close it, then where?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:22:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:27:20 AM EDT

So the real question.... If they close it, then where?



Your house.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:27:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:
Ok, so here is the deal. When I get there, or whomever is the first at the pit on Jan 21st, we will take pictures as to the pit's condidtion, no ifs ands or buts. It will be done.

And as to the cleanup, CH is right, you all already do a tremendous job. I will be around to help with the cleanup efforts this time around as well. And after we are done, we will take another picture to compare the two.
Sounds pretty simple. If we get spoken to, well there will be documented evidence.


Sure wish this was all fun and not looked at as a major hassle



It is all fun!!!!!
Watching you get stressed bring great enjoyment to the members.

Claim chowder for lunch?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:42:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:

So the real question.... If they close it, then where?



Your house.



Sweet. We can eat all his food and drink all his beer!

Hell, while we're shooting, he can be in his house making reloads. Sounds like a plan to me!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:53:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:30:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoAim:

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:

So the real question.... If they close it, then where?



Your house.



Sweet. We can eat all his food and drink all his beer!

Hell, while we're shooting, he can be in his house making reloads. Sounds like a plan to me!



Once I get my reloader set up again we are in business!!!
SO I am hearing the next shoot is in Hood River... Hope y'all have 4 wheel drive~!


Is memoloose snowed in?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:31:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:

So the real question.... If they close it, then where?



Your house.



No Sammiches for You!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 9:39:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
Is memoloose snowed in?



I know Anarx got stuck in the snow last weekend at Memaloose.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:38:11 AM EDT
Alot of snow?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:16:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
Alot of snow?



Should be no trouble for the ^$((alade!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:35:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By watchdawg:

I have however suggested that Shooters in general are the reason it's a mess.



I'm getting the impression you have shot with slobs enough to have created a poor opinion of shooters in general. Calling my positive opinion of shooters (specifically the people posting in this thread) "out in left field" is further evidence of your shooting habits and associations Too bad.

I generally shoot with great people in pretty good places and we always leave these places better than how we found them. My opinion of shooters therefore is much higher than yours. Perhaps your opinion will begin to change for the better after shooting with the ARFCOM bunch a few more times.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:00:44 PM EDT
Well, you know, I did go to camp, etc. While it emphaiszed a "low-impact" footprint, I've tried to do that whenever I'm out in the country. So, the targets I've shot...in the bag. All the ammo boxes, in the bag. The only thing I haven't done is clean up fired brass (live rounds go with me) if it's in an area that already has tons of it in the same place.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:04:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By munkalido:

Originally Posted By watchdawg:

I have however suggested that Shooters in general are the reason it's a mess.



I'm getting the impression you have shot with slobs enough to have created a poor opinion of shooters in general. Calling my positive opinion of shooters (specifically the people posting in this thread) "out in left field" is further evidence of your shooting habits and associations Too bad.

I generally shoot with great people in pretty good places and we always leave these places better than how we found them. My opinion of shooters therefore is much higher than yours. Perhaps your opinion will begin to change for the better after shooting with the ARFCOM bunch a few more times.



I'm glad you don't know too much about me, and it's always nice to know that since I disagree with you, you have a low opinion of me. I could tell you that I only associate with the good variety of shooters, but I suspect that you don't care. I don't know where you got the idea that I was picking on "specifically the people in this thread", but I assure you, that was not the case.

I'm glad to hear that you take care of the areas you shoot at, and I think the majority of the people on this board do as well, but that doesn't change the fact that a large number of shooters leave messes behind. Go to any quarry or pit that's open to shooting in the area and you will find evidence of this fact. I'd like to find a way to convince these folks to change their ways to better our shooting venues and our image in the community.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:33:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:35:31 PM EDT
Watchdawg, You will see how good a group these guys are at our next shoot. We may pack in alot of stuff but we always pack out more. No one here wants to trash out or give shooters a bad name.
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