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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:36:03 PM EDT
I hope this woman is in contact with GCO. Story here.


GWINNETT COUNTY, Ga. –– A metro Atlanta woman is asking a judge to strike down a Gwinnett County company's gun policy.

Jamie Lunsford said the company violated her rights by firing her after they discovered she had a gun in her car while on business. Lunsford said the company violated her right to carry a permitted, concealed weapon in her car.

“I know that I didn't do anything wrong. I'm a licensed carrier and I'm covered under the law,” said Lunsford, who showed Channel 2 Action News reporter Manuel Bojorquez her permit to carry a gun.

But Lundsford said even that wasn’t enough to keep her Norcross employer –– a subsidiary of information management company Iron Mountain Inc. –– from firing her.

Lunsford said it was during a trip to the Federal Reserve Bank on business that she disclosed to security guards she had the weapon in her car. She said they had no problem with it, but when she returned to work, she was suspended, then fired, she said. Her attorney said that should have never happened under Georgia law, which allows employees to securely keep permitted weapons in their cars.

“They have a policy which prohibits employees from doing so, which is clearly a violation of the rights given to her and every other employee under Georgia law,” said Steven Leibel.

“Shocking to lose a job after six years … at no fault of your own, knowing that I did nothing wrong,” said Lundsford.

But Lundsford’s former employer said she was not within the law.

A spokesman for the company sent Bojorquez a statement that read in part, “Georgia law allows workers to leave a firearm in their vehicle in a company parking lot. The law does not, however, permit an employee to carry a firearm while conducting company business."

Link Posted: 9/14/2010 12:42:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 12:43:24 PM EDT by ikickhippies]

Originally Posted By mikey556:

A spokesman for the company sent Bojorquez a statement that read in part, "Georgia law allows workers to leave a firearm in their vehicle in a company parking lot. The law does not, however, permit an employee to carry a firearm while conducting company business."


Dude, I am in no means saying that I agree with how they handled it, but they are correct.

A private business has oversight on what their employees can do while on duty. The buck stops with the company that she worked for.

Sucks for her though.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:01:32 PM EDT
Not to the point of telling them what they can do with their own property. As far as I can tell from the article, the gun never left the car. Her employer has no right to control what happens inside her car.

However, if there was a provision in her contract or if it is an established rule at that company that you can't have weapons, and she agreed to that when she took the job, then so be it. I just disagree with the quote in bold, because in my opinion the law most certainly does allow a person to have a gun in their car, whether on the clock or not.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:05:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 1:06:11 PM EDT by ikickhippies]
Well since the exact company in question isn't named in the article I guess we'll never know.

My wife works for the State and it is expressly prohibited that she carry one while on State business.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:06:10 PM EDT
O.C.G.A. § 16-11-135
Public or private employer's parking lots; right of privacy in vehicles in employer's parking lot or invited guests on lot; severability; rights of action

(b) Except as provided in this Code section, no private or public employer, including the state and its political subdivisions, shall condition employment upon any agreement by a prospective employee that prohibits an employee from entering the parking lot and access thereto when the employee's privately owned motor vehicle contains a firearm that is locked out of sight within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or area within such privately owned motor vehicle, provided that any applicable employees possess a Georgia weapons carry license.

BUT:

(d) Subsections (a) and (b) of this Code section shall not apply:

(1) To an employer providing applicable employees with a secure parking area which restricts general public access through the use of a gate, security station, security officers, or other similar means which limit public access into the parking area, provided that any employer policy allowing vehicle searches upon entry shall be applicable to all vehicles entering the property and applied on a uniform and frequent basis;

So, basically, if her employer provided secured/restricted parking, she's toast. Otherwise, the employer is toast. IANAL
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:11:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GooberTim:
O.C.G.A. § 16-11-135
Public or private employer's parking lots; right of privacy in vehicles in employer's parking lot or invited guests on lot; severability; rights of action

(b) Except as provided in this Code section, no private or public employer, including the state and its political subdivisions, shall condition employment upon any agreement by a prospective employee that prohibits an employee from entering the parking lot and access thereto when the employee's privately owned motor vehicle contains a firearm that is locked out of sight within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or area within such privately owned motor vehicle, provided that any applicable employees possess a Georgia weapons carry license.

BUT:

(d) Subsections (a) and (b) of this Code section shall not apply:

(1) To an employer providing applicable employees with a secure parking area which restricts general public access through the use of a gate, security station, security officers, or other similar means which limit public access into the parking area, provided that any employer policy allowing vehicle searches upon entry shall be applicable to all vehicles entering the property and applied on a uniform and frequent basis;

So, basically, if her employer provided secured/restricted parking, she's toast. Otherwise, the employer is toast. IANAL

Tim, I'm tracking on the parking lot issue but that's not what she got fired for.

Neither of those code sections state any information regarding possessing a firearm while conducting business for the employer.

Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:13:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 1:21:46 PM EDT by mikey556]
Thanks Goober, I was just looking for those sections. Bottom line, given the wording of the law, I think with the right lawyer she has a fighting chance.

ETA: nevermind, new post
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:16:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ikickhippies:
Well since the exact company in question isn't named in the article I guess we'll never know.

My wife works for the State and it is expressly prohibited that she carry one while on State business.


Article says a subsidiary of Iron Mountain, Inc.

Since the federal reserve isn't a government body I wouldn't tell the security guards shit. Concealed means concealed.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:17:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 1:19:14 PM EDT by GooberTim]
Originally Posted By ikickhippies:

Originally Posted By GooberTim:
O.C.G.A. § 16-11-135
Public or private employer's parking lots; right of privacy in vehicles in employer's parking lot or invited guests on lot; severability; rights of action

(b) Except as provided in this Code section, no private or public employer, including the state and its political subdivisions, shall condition employment upon any agreement by a prospective employee that prohibits an employee from entering the parking lot and access thereto when the employee's privately owned motor vehicle contains a firearm that is locked out of sight within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or area within such privately owned motor vehicle, provided that any applicable employees possess a Georgia weapons carry license.

BUT:

(d) Subsections (a) and (b) of this Code section shall not apply:

(1) To an employer providing applicable employees with a secure parking area which restricts general public access through the use of a gate, security station, security officers, or other similar means which limit public access into the parking area, provided that any employer policy allowing vehicle searches upon entry shall be applicable to all vehicles entering the property and applied on a uniform and frequent basis;

So, basically, if her employer provided secured/restricted parking, she's toast. Otherwise, the employer is toast. IANAL

Tim, I'm tracking on the parking lot issue but that's not what she got fired for.

Neither of those code sections state any information regarding possessing a firearm while conducting business for the employer.



Ga Packing has weapons related laws listed on one tidy page here
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:22:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ikickhippies:

Originally Posted By GooberTim:
O.C.G.A. § 16-11-135
Public or private employer's parking lots; right of privacy in vehicles in employer's parking lot or invited guests on lot; severability; rights of action

(b) Except as provided in this Code section, no private or public employer, including the state and its political subdivisions, shall condition employment upon any agreement by a prospective employee that prohibits an employee from entering the parking lot and access thereto when the employee's privately owned motor vehicle contains a firearm that is locked out of sight within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or area within such privately owned motor vehicle, provided that any applicable employees possess a Georgia weapons carry license.

BUT:

(d) Subsections (a) and (b) of this Code section shall not apply:

(1) To an employer providing applicable employees with a secure parking area which restricts general public access through the use of a gate, security station, security officers, or other similar means which limit public access into the parking area, provided that any employer policy allowing vehicle searches upon entry shall be applicable to all vehicles entering the property and applied on a uniform and frequent basis;

So, basically, if her employer provided secured/restricted parking, she's toast. Otherwise, the employer is toast. IANAL

Tim, I'm tracking on the parking lot issue but that's not what she got fired for.

Neither of those code sections state any information regarding possessing a firearm while conducting business for the employer.


I see what you are saying Hippiekicker, and I would agree except that the gun was in her car. If she was carrying, I would say that she had no argument, as she is a representative of that company on company business. It is up to the court at this point, but I hope for her and the rest of us that no precedent is set for businesses regulating what is in our privately owned vehicles, which happen to be defined as habitation in other code sections.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:30:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 1:35:28 PM EDT by mikefromphilly]
For the record, that language was ALL the NRA's doing and they refused to consider a more protective alternative suggested by a tiny gun rights org.

Sadly, Mrs. Lunsford is going to find out how empty the NRA's language is.

Never ever tell anyone that you work with about what is in your car.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:39:35 PM EDT
Georgia is an "at will" state in regards to hiring and firing. They can fire you for any reason they want, at any time. Good luck fighting it in court.

She learned an important lesson.. concealed means concealed.

Az
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:49:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AzB:

She learned an important lesson.. concealed means concealed.


Truer words have never been typed.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:50:41 PM EDT
Even though she was in her car, she was using her car for company business, it's not like she just drove to work and parked her car. I can't carry my pistol when I use my truck for company business according to company policy.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:52:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bgcoop8784:
I can't carry my pistol when I use my truck for company business according to company policy.
I think that a LOT of people have this problem. You then have to make a hard decision.

Link Posted: 9/14/2010 2:06:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 2:07:41 PM EDT by bgcoop8784]
Not a hard decision for me, this is why i said according to company policy, even have a lock box in my toolbox for my sidearm when I'm working late. It'll never be seen by anyone other than me while putting it in and taking it out, doesn't always go in with me, just If I'm working in the evenings or at night by myself, or when I get bored and wanna go play on the cnc plasma cutter after hours but i see what you are saying, just don't see how carrying my pistol is going to hurt the company in any way, if I have to use it then they'll just fire me, but that will be the last thing on my mind at that point.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 2:10:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AzB:
Georgia is an "at will" state in regards to hiring and firing. They can fire you for any reason they want, at any time. Good luck fighting it in court.

and there it is...
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 4:26:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:

Originally Posted By AzB:
Georgia is an "at will" state in regards to hiring and firing. They can fire you for any reason they want, at any time. Good luck fighting it in court.

and there it is...


Does the "at will" override the woman's civil rights?

What was she suspended and subsequently fired for?

Was she "on the job" in her car and charging mileage back to the company?

If she had to go offsite for her job and was using her personal car to convey her to said location, unless she was using her car in some official business capacity (charging mileage back to company), I can't see how they can fire her for a corporate policy violation.

They can fire her for whatever they want but if they are saying they canned her for the pistol in her car, I have to wonder if this becomes a civil rights case?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 4:44:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By skebe:
They can fire her for whatever they want but if they are saying they canned her for the pistol in her car, they are really stupid.


Fixed it for you. Lacking a "smoking gun" statement this stuff is hard to prove. It's kinda like you shoot a guy in your house who was coming at you with a knife and when the police question you; you say, "I was not in fear for my life, I did not believe it was a forcible felony". That really changes the dynamic.

It's the worst economy in 50 years. People, even good people, get fired all the time.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:04:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:

Originally Posted By AzB:
Georgia is an "at will" state in regards to hiring and firing. They can fire you for any reason they want, at any time. Good luck fighting it in court.

and there it is...


Well after researching "at will" employment, I guess I have to admit that nothing I have said in this thread matters. It's amazing what they don't teach you in public school, ya know?

I guess she should have played the race card.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:24:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 7:24:20 PM EDT by BillyPumper]

Never ever tell anyone that you work with about what is in your car.



lol i am a cop and this SO applies to my job. NEVER, EVER tell another LEO about a cool new toy you just got issued.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:25:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ikickhippies:

Originally Posted By bgcoop8784:
I can't carry my pistol when I use my truck for company business according to company policy.
I think that a LOT of people have this problem. You then have to make a hard decision.



Same goes for me. Thats why it's :"don't ask, don't tell" when I'm at work.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 5:31:41 AM EDT
I wonder do they pay her car insurance ? Do the pay for anything for her to user her car for official business? if not i do not believe they have a leg to stand on. i also wonder if she and the company knows if she where to have an accident while driving on the clock that the company could be held responsible for any damages. also her insurance company could deny coverage due to the fact that her car is not registered as a company car.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 5:42:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By foreman2000:
I wonder do they pay her car insurance ? Do the pay for anything for her to user her car for official business? if not i do not believe they have a leg to stand on. i also wonder if she and the company knows if she where to have an accident while driving on the clock that the company could be held responsible for any damages. also her insurance company could deny coverage due to the fact that her car is not registered as a company car.

If they pay her mileage on her company trips then yes, they do have a leg to stand on. Mileage accounts for gas, insurance, and wear and tear on the employee's vehicle.

There are a lot of big companies and State agencies that have been doing this for a long time. To think they haven't got it figured out is a bad mistake.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 6:08:17 AM EDT
guys! you are missing a HUGE point! It doesnt matter what they fired her for! they dont have to give a reason. it may very well be for the gun, but even if she can prove that it still wont matter! they can say they fired her because she smells bad, wont make a bit of difference!

they can fire her (and you) for what ever they want. that is the law. Ga is an AT WILL state.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 6:14:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DKing:

Originally Posted By AzB:
Georgia is an "at will" state in regards to hiring and firing. They can fire you for any reason they want, at any time. Good luck fighting it in court.

and there it is...


Not exactly..........yes it is an "at will" state but they can't fire someone for say....being black can they? at will is not a catch all and you can still get your pants sued around your ankles.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 6:32:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
Originally Posted By DKing:

Originally Posted By AzB:
Georgia is an "at will" state in regards to hiring and firing. They can fire you for any reason they want, at any time. Good luck fighting it in court.

and there it is...


Not exactly..........yes it is an "at will" state but they can't fire someone for say....being black can they? at will is not a catch all and you can still get your pants sued around your ankles.
Chad, I'm thinking he was also taking into account that if you are a protected class- race, sex, age etc. then you have to be fired for reason. Sadly, gun owners are not a protected class.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:02:53 AM EDT
the only question I am required to ask when I fire a FTE (contractors dont count) is something along the lines of: can this termination be anyway tied to discrimination or has there ever been a report (implied or formal) of discrimination with this employee?

just for reference that is from the HR dept of a company of 47,000

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:32:33 AM EDT
I saw this on the TV news last night and the part that freaked me out was: A rep. from Iron Mountain said something to the effect of - the safety of their employees had to be their top priority. Like having a gun in the car made it unsafe.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:53:46 AM EDT
what is Iron mountain and how do I avoid making sure that they or any of their vendors ever get a dime of my money?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:33:13 AM EDT
Her court case may turn out in her favor, and I hope it does. That won't get her job back though. I still don't understand why she told a security officer she had a gun in her car. I'm guessing she had to go through a checkpoint of some sort and they asked if she had any weapons. Who knows... bet she'll keep her mouth shut now.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 10:17:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
Her court case may turn out in her favor, and I hope it does. That won't get her job back though. I still don't understand why she told a security officer she had a gun in her car. I'm guessing she had to go through a checkpoint of some sort and they asked if she had any weapons. Who knows... bet she'll keep her mouth shut now.


She won't win. She would stand a better chance if the NRA language didn't exist .... at least then she could argue that her conduct was lawful and her car is her personal private property. Now she has to argue against a Legislative act in addition to company policy.

In my humble opinion, the NRA pushed this language not to protect us but to prove to someone that they were the biggest swinging dicks in town. The NRA created a battle between property rights and gun rights. It was an unnecessary battle and worthless to us. We could have crafted a law that both protected the property rights of businesses and self defense rights of their employees at the same time. Both are equally important and deserve respect. The majority of businesses in Georgia are run by pro-gun people. However, businesses will always fight to the death to defend the At Will Employment concept.

Personally, I think we should get rid of the clause since I think its misleading. This women is the textbook example. She thought she was protected but wasn't.






Link Posted: 9/15/2010 10:19:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
what is Iron mountain and how do I avoid making sure that they or any of their vendors ever get a dime of my money?


They do storage of records. Predominately, major corporations and the government use them.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 10:53:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
what is Iron mountain and how do I avoid making sure that they or any of their vendors ever get a dime of my money?

As someone else said, document storage, they're also VERY big in the offsite data retention business, a lot of companies have their backup tapes or disks stored by Iron Mountain. They are supposed to have reasonably tight security because they store a lot of confidential data for corporations and government entities.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 11:15:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LoneWolf545:

Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
what is Iron mountain and how do I avoid making sure that they or any of their vendors ever get a dime of my money?

As someone else said, document storage, they're also VERY big in the offsite data retention business, a lot of companies have their backup tapes or disks stored by Iron Mountain. They are supposed to have reasonably tight security because they store a lot of confidential data for corporations and government entities.


they also do secure shredding....there are multiple places around the KSU campus with locked garbage cans that you can put you "confidential documents" into for shredding. i see the trucks once a week on campus.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 1:03:31 PM EDT
As far as the at-will hiring/firing, I know we have to have a legitimate reason to fire, we can lay off/fire due to lack of work, but other than that there has to be proper documentation of write-ups or warnings due to the employee being fired.We just got sued last year due to someone getting fired and somehow one of their three write-ups wasn't filed or was lost, now we pay him to sit on his couch for 24months from the time he was fired, and he was not a minority. This may just be our company due to how the company policies are worded, don't know.
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