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Posted: 9/13/2010 6:09:55 PM EDT
Is it legal for a gun dealer to set up a trust for a customer? I thought you had to be a lawyer?

http://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/showthread.php?9335-We-are-the-Largest-AAC-Distributor-amp-have-the-best-prices-on-AAC-Silencers!
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:32:02 PM EDT
I'm gonna go with no on this one.

Technically you can set your own up, but simply making trusts for other people constitutes Legal Advice, so essentially they are practicing law without a license.

I'm sure Doug will be along shortly.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:36:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 6:41:30 PM EDT by puppis]
It's not a good idea. The reason why will maker works is because the purchaser of the program uses the program themselves and people are allowed to write their own trusts. When a company does it for their customers they are taking a risk. When they advertise it in a public forum... well, that's not a good idea.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:47:48 PM EDT
My guess is there's no problem since they aren't charging for it. They aren't 'practicing law'.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:56:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 8:57:35 PM EDT by thegooch]

Originally Posted By ikickhippies:
I'm gonna go with no on this one.

Technically you can set your own up, but simply making trusts for other people constitutes Legal Advice, so essentially they are practicing law without a license.

I'm sure Doug will be along shortly.

Walmart sells Quicken Willmaker does that mean they are practicing law without a license by selling it? My guess would be there is nothing illegal with them "creating" the trust. All they are doing is using the software to create the document I don't see how that can be considered "practicing law" especially considering they are not charging for it. I don't think it's a good idea for a business to offer this "service" as I'm sure it would expose them to potential liabilities.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 5:12:22 AM EDT
I'll reserve future comments for after the legal eagles show up.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 5:41:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
My guess is there's no problem since they aren't charging for it. They aren't 'practicing law'.


Nope. Getting paid has no bearing on whether or not you practice law. Giving legal advice, preparing legal documents, and appearing in court are all the same regardless of whether or not any money changes hands. As Americans we enjoy a right to represent ourselves which includes preparing our own documents, but once you start doing the same for someone else you must have a license. Georgia does not even allow self help clinics where you provide the answers and a paralegal fills in the forms.

You have to do it on your own, and you cannot ask any questions.

It is a misdemeanor for a first offense to practice law without a license in Georgia.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 6:16:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DKing:
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
My guess is there's no problem since they aren't charging for it. They aren't 'practicing law'.


Nope. Getting paid has no bearing on whether or not you practice law. Giving legal advice, preparing legal documents, and appearing in court are all the same regardless of whether or not any money changes hands. As Americans we enjoy a right to represent ourselves which includes preparing our own documents, but once you start doing the same for someone else you must have a license. Georgia does not even allow self help clinics where you provide the answers and a paralegal fills in the forms.

You have to do it on your own, and you cannot ask any questions.

It is a misdemeanor for a first offense to practice law without a license in Georgia.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Link Posted: 9/14/2010 6:29:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ikickhippies:

Originally Posted By DKing:
Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
My guess is there's no problem since they aren't charging for it. They aren't 'practicing law'.


Nope. Getting paid has no bearing on whether or not you practice law. Giving legal advice, preparing legal documents, and appearing in court are all the same regardless of whether or not any money changes hands. As Americans we enjoy a right to represent ourselves which includes preparing our own documents, but once you start doing the same for someone else you must have a license. Georgia does not even allow self help clinics where you provide the answers and a paralegal fills in the forms.

You have to do it on your own, and you cannot ask any questions.

It is a misdemeanor for a first offense to practice law without a license in Georgia.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




To find the reasoning behind the above laws...all you have to do is find out who the law makers are (hint - most are lawyers).
But seriously, I would not offer legal advice unless I was getting paid for it...not assuming liability for free.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 6:34:54 AM EDT
If they want they can give people a copy of willmaker and refuse to answer any questions. Have them sign an acknowledgement they don't rewpresent them, and then wait for the inevitable screww ups. Even with very close guidence, people always get it wrong.

At least then it won't be criminal. And that may be what they are doing. Now unless they are paying for those willmaker copies, they might be violating their end user agreement, but at leasdt no one is going to jail.

Oh and before or blue brother come in and say "I've never arrested any one for that" the bar does its own sting operations. The old head of the bar ethics enforement brigade was a gulf vet, carried. 1911 and loved to surf here...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 6:43:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 6:43:42 AM EDT by ikickhippies]
Georgia
CODE OF GEORGIA ANNOTATED TITLE 15. COURTS CHAPTER 19. ATTORNEYS ARTICLE 3. REGULATION OF PRACTICE OF LAW
§5-19-50. "Practice of law” defined.
The practice of law in this state is defined as: (1) Representing litigants in court and preparing pleadings and other papers incident to any action or special proceedings in any court or other judicial body; (2) Conveyancing; (3) The preparation of legal instruments of all kinds whereby a legal right is secured; (4) The rendering of opinions as to the validity or invalidity of titles to real or personal property; (5) The giving of any legal advice; and (6) Any action taken for others in any matter connected with the law.


http://www.gabar.org/handbook/part_xiv_rules_governing_the_investigation_and_prosecution_of_the_unlicensed_practice_of_law/
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 9:36:38 AM EDT
Dking and hippy are both correct. It is practicing law and as you can see they have the relevant code passages to prove it.


If you are considering having a trust made or using software I strongly suggest you read this thread by our resident expert (in my opinion) on NFA and trusts. He has some very good points to make about how things work with the ATF.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=20&t=322617



I don't think it can be put any clearer than that.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 11:38:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 11:39:53 AM EDT by feeling_infringed]
IKH, can you provide the specific section where the definitions are located? I must be missing it on your link and looked last night after I posted above.

Can somewhat ellaborate on GA's defintion of practicing law? It just sounds pretty vague to me. Maybe not vague, but all-encompassing. I'm not trying to argue, just understand. People give 'legal advice' by that definition all the damn time. Especially in how I interpretted this phrase,

(4) The rendering of opinions as to the validity or invalidity of titles to real or personal property; (5) The giving of any legal advice; and (6) Any action taken for others in any matter connected with the law.




I don't doubt a trust is a legal instrument, but I am a little confused as to what else is considered a legal instrument. Is a bill of sale included? What specifically is meant by the 'wherby a legal right is secured'?
The preparation of legal instruments of all kinds whereby a legal right is secured



Link Posted: 9/14/2010 12:55:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 5:36:49 PM EDT by ikickhippies]

Originally Posted By feeling_infringed:
IKH, can you provide the specific section where the definitions are located? I must be missing it on your link and looked last night after I posted above.

Can somewhat ellaborate on GA's defintion of practicing law? It just sounds pretty vague to me. Maybe not vague, but all-encompassing. I'm not trying to argue, just understand. People give 'legal advice' by that definition all the damn time. Especially in how I interpretted this phrase,

(4) The rendering of opinions as to the validity or invalidity of titles to real or personal property; (5) The giving of any legal advice; and (6) Any action taken for others in any matter connected with the law.




I don't doubt a trust is a legal instrument, but I am a little confused as to what else is considered a legal instrument. Is a bill of sale included? What specifically is meant by the 'wherby a legal right is secured'?
The preparation of legal instruments of all kinds whereby a legal right is secured




From the American Bar Association:
http://www.abanet.org/cpr/model-def/model_def_statutes.pdf

It IS vague and all-encompassing. I think that might have been the point when they wrote it. Kinda like the Public Gathering Statute.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say if it needs to be notarized then it's probably a legal instrument.



Link Posted: 9/14/2010 5:34:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arlessinsc:To find the reasoning behind the above laws...all you have to do is find out who the law makers are (hint - most are lawyers).
Not in Georgia. Very few are lawyers.

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