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Posted: 11/4/2003 10:44:52 AM EDT
Ok, I've been thinking (yeah,yeah, it hurts, but sometimes its gotta be done ). Anyways, a lot of people keep saying how XM193 penetrates less than 9mm, .45, etc. So, I was thinking about actually testing this at the range. I figure it should be ok, since wallboard will not cause richochets, and is easily cleaned up. My plan is to take a 4'x8' sheet of dry wall, cut it into four 16"x4' sections, frame with 2x4s, and mount the drywall on either side of the 2x4s like a wall of a house. Then take it to the range and shoot at it. With this setup, I figure I can simulate up to three walls. What do you guys think? Anyone wanna donate some drywall?

Ghost

Link Posted: 11/4/2003 10:59:49 AM EDT
Im down but do not have any drywall around. Home depot as it for like $8 a sheet. Or you can scout the job sites and find some.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 11:24:11 AM EDT
Gordon is right about the job sites. LOTS of dry wall left behind. If you end up needing to buy some I'll chip in for it. I've also got 9mm & .45 pistols and M193 & M855 ammo for rifles/carbines. It would be interesting to see how various 9mm (ball & hollow points) ammo performs out of a pistol compared to a 9mm AR. ARH, s0ulzer0 and a few other guys have 9mm ARs.

Should be interesting.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 11:36:40 AM EDT
I just called the bowling alleys to see about getting old pins. I have to call back on 2. So far not to good but I think the one in Tucker will have some. Snellville donates theirs to law enforcement. Just something else to shoot at.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 12:00:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ghost-Shooter:
Ok, I've been thinking (yeah,yeah, it hurts, but sometimes its gotta be done ). Anyways, a lot of people keep saying how XM193 penetrates less than 9mm, .45, etc. So, I was thinking about actually testing this at the range. I figure it should be ok, since wallboard will not cause richochets, and is easily cleaned up. My plan is to take a 4'x8' sheet of dry wall, cut it into four 16"x4' sections, frame with 2x4s, and mount the drywall on either side of the 2x4s like a wall of a house. Then take it to the range and shoot at it. With this setup, I figure I can simulate up to three walls. What do you guys think? Anyone wanna donate some drywall?

Ghost




The short bus is gonna be full with bodies and guns and stuff, you wanna bring walls too? Can we strap it to the top of my Yugo?


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 3:05:09 PM EDT
Heavy. No problem with the wind blowing you target over though.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 5:03:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 5:05:15 PM EDT by Ghost-Shooter]
Ok, how do you go about actually cutting apart drywall? Do you use a regular wood saw, or do you need some kind of new blade? The big problem right now is getting said drywall to my house. The actual fabrication portion of the project is easy enough, but I can't really stuff a 4'x8' sheet of drywall into my car. Any suggestions? Oh, yeah, u guys think the Gods of CE will allow this? Or should I just save this little idea for FOP?

Ghost
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 5:36:19 PM EDT
Dry wall is quite soft.
You can use a standard circular saw, a spiral saw (roto zip, etc) or a reciprocating saw.

Depending on the cartridge it will pass through like hot knife on butter. :-)
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 5:59:46 PM EDT
Use a utility knife to cut drywall. You need only to cut through the paper on one side and score the 'rock'. Use a straight edge. When you bend at the score it will pop, use the utility knife on the back side paper to finish the cut.

Not sure if a range nazi will be there.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 7:27:09 PM EDT
byte is right its that easy. Sure CE will allow it, its a target right?
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 7:59:10 PM EDT
Huh, interesting. Here I was thinking of whipping out the circular saw to dismember some sheetrock. Now the big problem of transporting the sucker home, and whether the range nazi will actually allow this stuff to be shot. I don't want to go through all the trouble of making it and lugging it to CE if we can't shoot it.

Ghost
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 8:06:44 PM EDT
you make it Ill say its mine. I really do not care what they say. It fits the rules. And your testing. Im sure they all would love to know the test results. We are going to be having half the range taken up by us anyway. I do not see the big deal. As to making it. It could be dismantled till we get there. The parking lot is big enough to hammer a few nails into some wood. We do not have to make it that big either. 2'x2' would do the job. I do not see a 9mm pistol hitting the target full range. IF they allow clay targets then drywall is not a big deal. LEt me know Ill build it and figure out how to get it there. I love going to home depot.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 9:20:31 PM EDT
Hey, are you still in Florida, or did you move to Georgia? If you are in Georgia, where are you? The reason I ask is to see if you want to get together on maybe Friday to get the drywall, build it, etc. Lemme know.

Ghost
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 3:12:27 AM EDT
I've got lots of sheetrock at my house, all you can eat basically and I would be willing to donate some. I've got scraps all over the place left over from my construction project.
Let me know what sizes you need, maybe I can get it together before the shoot to give more actual shooting time.

I've also got a little left over insulation if you want to mimic actual exterior walls. I dont think a little R19 is going to make much of a difference with a .223 though. I've even got some left over vinyl siding that you can mount to it.

Let me know
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 3:42:33 AM EDT
Just remember is busts apart and will leave small white chunks all over. Just bring your pickin' up hands.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 4:08:43 AM EDT
Joel, I thought your ladies were going to clean up after us. Was I wrong?
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 4:47:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2003 4:48:20 AM EDT by m193]
I've been thinking about doing that myself. What distance will you be shooting at? It should be close, 10'-15', because that would be the distance inside a house. What will you use as a secondary target to measure penetration?

I just ask these questions because its what I've been pondering.

I think M193 will go through and penetrate the secondary target enough to cause damage.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 5:14:13 AM EDT
Hummm.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 5:21:37 AM EDT
Another thing, the studs need to be placed 16" OC (vertical of course) to mimick a standard interior residential wall. 1/2" sheetrock is standard.

For exterior walls you would need to add 1/2" OSB to the exterior side. I don't think the insulation and vinyl siding will make any difference. Plank siding will make a difference.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 5:28:41 AM EDT
Make sure there is sheetrock on BOTH sides of that pseudo wall, complete with insulation (as gilfrd points out). Might as well make it as real as possible.

ghost, you gonna do this? What help do you need?
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 5:49:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gilfrd:
I've got lots of sheetrock at my house, all you can eat basically and I would be willing to donate some. I've got scraps all over the place left over from my construction project.
Let me know what sizes you need, maybe I can get it together before the shoot to give more actual shooting time.

I've also got a little left over insulation if you want to mimic actual exterior walls. I dont think a little R19 is going to make much of a difference with a .223 though. I've even got some left over vinyl siding that you can mount to it.

Let me know



gilfrd, I am looking for some scrap HVAC(type) sheetmetal. A 2'x 2'ish piece. Got any scraps like that? I want to make an 'air scoop' for my propeller on my car.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 5:59:56 AM EDT
Im in LAwrenceville so hit me up with an IM and we can start on it
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 6:28:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2003 6:31:23 AM EDT by Ghost-Shooter]
Hey, I will be free later on Friday, after I see Matrix Revolutions. Are you available? I will have to see about picking up a few pieces from gilfrd, but most likely would end up having to buying some. Right now, as it stands, the biggest problem I'm facing is the transportation of said sheetrock to a suitable location for building. I got the tools needed, but I don't think Home Depot is going to appreciate me building a bunch of walls in their parking lot Any suggestions on transporting sheetrock in an Intrepid?

Ghost

Link Posted: 11/5/2003 6:42:06 AM EDT
The advis mentioned previously about searching the job sites for scrape board is a good one. If you do need to buy some, cut it into 16"x17" pieces right there in the parking lot. Cut it like Byte described. Using a razor knife, to score (i.e. lightly cut the sheetrock) the side of the rock WITHOUT the paper. Then tap the board from the paper side and the rock will brake. Use the knife to cut the paper backing.

I've got sheetrock screws and nails.

Would you just rather me build this thing? I can probably do it tonight. Hell, I probably even have some 2x4s.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 6:50:48 AM EDT
Hey, BookHound, can you build a couple? I'll try to build some as well. That way, in case the M193 goes through 3 walls, we can have a couple more.

Ghost
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 6:52:48 AM EDT
Yep, I'll build a few. Should we paint them or use wallpaper? Hehehe.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 7:05:37 AM EDT
You should put that girly froo froo wall paper on it,...to simulate shooting in your bedroom. C'mon, admit it, you let your wife do the decorating, didn't ya?

Ghost
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 7:13:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 8:26:39 AM EDT
Well, as long as we are all building them, what dimensions are you going to use? 36"x36"?
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 9:13:41 AM EDT
I'm not sure yet, but that sounds about right. I'm also gonna bring a shotgun with various sized shot shells.

It would be nice to have one large wall and about 6' behind that have a wall of 1/2" plywood. I'd like to see what gets through the wall and if that projectile then penetrates the second piece of wood.

I have the feeling this initial test will help us figure out how to properly test this.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 9:15:31 AM EDT
I was planning to do 16" x 4', just because this will allow a sheet of drywall to be cut into 6 pieces. Two piece per "wall" screwed onto each side of the wooden frame yielding three "walls". The key dimension is the 16" CTC studs. This is important because that is the distance they use in houses. So, dimensions aren't super crucial except for the 16" CTC measurement.

Ghost
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 9:18:14 AM EDT
rememberr 16" is ID not OD so you would have to take in the size of the 2x4 on each side. The thickness of a 2x4 is 1.5" x 3.5"
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 6:33:45 AM EDT
How are the walls comming? Everyone got the size down right? Uniform? Let me know if you guys need help!
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 6:43:59 AM EDT
The rain yesterday made short work of my sheetrock, the scraps weren't covered. I'll see if I can find more.

Link Posted: 11/6/2003 6:50:46 AM EDT
I got stuck with work until late last night. I'm planning on swinging by Home Depot on my way home tonight.

You know what would be a neat test? Have a chronograph on both sides of the board. I'd love to see the velocity figures for before and after board contact. I don't own a chronograph and if I did, there's no way I'd put mine BEHND that board.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 7:12:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BookHound:
I got stuck with work until late last night. I'm planning on swinging by Home Depot on my way home tonight.

You know what would be a neat test? Have a chronograph on both sides of the board. I'd love to see the velocity figures for before and after board contact. I don't own a chronograph and if I did, there's no way I'd put mine BEHND that board.



What kind of baiting technique is that? It would be cool but not mine?

Link Posted: 11/6/2003 3:56:11 PM EDT
I'm running into a serious problem. I'm having to work late AGAIN. I haven't been able to start on my "wall" yet. If I can't get out of work a little early tomorrow, I probably won't have time to build one. I'll see what I can do.
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 2:40:20 PM EDT
Sorry, but I'm having to babysit my neice & nephew tonight. No walls from me. Sorry.
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