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Posted: 5/29/2020 10:00:42 PM EDT
[#1]
It looks like you'd have to keep your barrel shorter than 11 1/4"ish. How I read it was the brace didn't count and it was measured from the end of the buffer tube to the muzzle minus any muzzle device.
Maybe a reason to look into the BRN-180. I just put together a 13" 6.5 grendel for deer hunting and I was waiting on this decision before shopping for a new barrel. |
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Posted: 5/29/2020 11:41:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How I read it was the brace didn't count and it was measured from the end of the buffer tube to the muzzle minus any muzzle device. ...unless that device is pinned or welded. The updated MDC definition of a handgun is, "Any firearm originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one (1) or more barrels when held in one (1) hand, and having a short stock designed to be gripped by one (1) hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s), with a barrel less than sixteen inches (16") in length, measured from the face of the bolt or standing breech (excluding any muzzle device not permanently attached to the barrel), and an overall length less than twenty-six inches (26") as measured between the muzzle of the barrel and the rearmost portion of the firearm (excluding any pistol brace, muzzle device, or other firearm accessory not permanently attached to the firearm). The use of a pistol brace is specifically authorized, and a second hand may be used for support when firing." |
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Posted: 5/30/2020 11:51:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well the jackasses got their way, but fortunately they removed some of the vague wording and added clarification that would have led to issues. I'm off to spend enough money to feed me for a month to make mine compliant now... Dickheads. https://mdc.mo.gov/newsroom/mdc-updates-definition-handguns-used-deer-hunting At least I'm glad they clearly made the definition for use of handgun/pistol for hunting purposes. I got a little worried when it read "... Any firearm with a total length of over 26 inches is considered a rifle.” In the above linked MDC article, last paragragh in bold says... "Doman added that the updated definition of “handgun” does not impact the right to own or possess firearms and is not intended to prohibit the use of AR-platform handguns that meet the barrel and overall length requirements. It also does not prohibit the use of pistol braces. The definition is intended to clearly define a legal hunting method during the alternative-methods portion of the firearms deer hunting season." I have two firearms or "other" specific builds (over 26"), and got a little worried until I read the full MDC article. I haven't gotten into the stamp game yet. I'm not a hunter, but also believe no rights should be infringed. Just because I don't hunt doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading, seeing and appreciating everyone's hunting pictures and storys you post. |
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Posted: 5/31/2020 2:04:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Dad and I are trying to find shorter buffer tube solutions to get our 12" & 13" grendel's under 26". Looks like cmmgs rip brace could cut an inch or more off with the shorter buffer tube.
****Edited to Add a reasonably priced commercial option before I get into the DIY mess below.**** This maybe even shorter than the 3/4" shortening modifications I make later in the thread. From their description "The Ultra Compact Stock Assembly is 1.5" shorter than their standard compact stock" Lwrci Uciw short Buffer tube $35 Tried to verify that this was Milspec and this is the best I could do "The diameter however is similar to the MIL-SPEC" LWRCI UCIW Buffer $35 This maybe the same as AR10 carbine buffer but I can't find any specs on it. LWRCI UCIW Buffer Spring $16 |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 7:48:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dad and I are trying to find shorter buffer tube solutions to get our 12" & 13" grendel's under 26". Looks like cmmgs rip brace could cut an inch or more off with the shorter buffer tube. I'm in the same boat as you and in for solutions anyone finds. totally pissed that MO [I don't care what part of the state gov't] is putting a more restrictive definition of pistol than the Feds. so much for a 2A state. |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 10:01:58 AM EDT
[#6]
I blame the FUDDS who hate anything that isn't like their favorite deer rifle and also blame all the tree huggers that are against any type of hunting that have weaseled their way into the Dept. of Conservation.
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Posted: 6/4/2020 7:07:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dad and I are trying to find shorter buffer tube solutions to get our 12" & 13" grendel's under 26". Looks like cmmgs rip brace could cut an inch or more off with the shorter buffer tube. @bendigo78 Have you found a solution? Have you found a shorter buffer tube or are you fabricating one? Thanks |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 8:19:50 AM EDT
[#8]
Strike Industries, and SHTF both make solutions that may or may not work.
I need to do some measuring to see exactly how much I need to lose... |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 11:39:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Strike Industries, and SHTF both make solutions that may or may not work. I need to do some measuring to see exactly how much I need to lose... @lokifox what are the possible solutions from Strike Ind. or SHTF?.... shorter buffer tubes? I have a 6" buffer tube and if I can find a 4 1/2" replacement then I'll be right at 26"  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 1:25:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @lokifox what are the possible solutions from Strike Ind. or SHTF?.... shorter buffer tubes? I have a 6" buffer tube and if I can find a 4 1/2" replacement then I'll be right at 26" https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/481930/pistol_1_June_2020_jpg-1446442.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/481930/pistol_2_june_2020_jpg-1446443.JPG Is your flash suppressor pinned or welded? If not, my understanding is that it is not part of the measurement. |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 4:22:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @bendigo78 Have you found a solution? Have you found a shorter buffer tube or are you fabricating one? Thanks There are a few shorter buffer tubes. The Cmmg ripbrace is the only shorter one made for adjustable stocks/braces that I've seen. I can't find the tube by itself though. It's a $200 package that would probably work for 12" Pistols. Another option is the Strike Industries with a tail hook brace of some kind. I don't care for this due to the super short LOP. I believe that the threads on grendels are 5/8" long so compared to @Deuskid picture, a 12" is about 5/8" too long. |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 5:02:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Measuring the pistols with hand removable brakes I got the following measurements. These all have carbine tubes and SBA3's on them.
7.5" 556 21 7/8" 4 1/8" 9.5" 300 23 7/8" 2 1/8" 13" 6.5 27 1/2" So say an 11.5 or 11.25" barrel should work. Or a CMMG Ripbrace on a 12". From what I've seen it cuts about an inch off of buffer tube. Looks like it uses a shortened carbine buffer with 2 weights instead of 3. Here. Alexander arms makes an 11.5" which is the only one I've found but it's pricey and I'd really like to see one measured to be sure that it'll be short enough. Here. BCA makes a 10.5" for around $85 but that's a gamble. Upper |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 5:56:38 PM EDT
[#13]
If you're real handy you could try this. ARF
Or get a 1 3/16 - 16 Right Hand Thread Die and a shorter buffer (AR10 Carbine) and trim your tube. The one I have on hand is a PSA that came out of a PA10. Looks to be 2.5" compared to the Standard 3 3/8". I'm going to pursue this further as I want the 12" barrel length and it's a bit cheaper if you have a 12".  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/4/2020 9:47:54 PM EDT
[#14]
I ordered the die and some tungsten weights. Plan to get a couple extra castle nuts to use as a cutting edge on the tube. Planning on cutting down an extra buffer and redrilling the rollpin hole. Replacing the two steel weights with tungsten should get the buffer weight back up to factory.
I'll still have to order a barrel since my 13" wont work. It doesn't shoot that great and the cost to have it cut is more than it's worth. Probably go with a 12" faxon gunner. If I had to go shorter than 12", I dont think it would be any better of a deer season pistol than my 300 black at 300 and that's was the whole point of this caliber experiment. |
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Posted: 6/5/2020 6:15:56 PM EDT
[#15]
You can buy the tungsten weights and cut your buffer down or get this buffer for $20. And a flat recoil spring.
Disassembled and cut down the extra buffer today. Cut the buffer body from 2.872" to 2.100". Redrilled the 1/8" rollpin hole .24" down from the top edge. Drilled one side then used the hole in the buffer to line up the exit side. The end of the old buffer has a .012" edge in it. I didn't have a way to cut that out of the I.D. of the buffer so I lightly put the tail of the bumper on a scotch brite wheel on a buffer till it fit.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/8/2020 5:40:58 PM EDT
[#16]
My muzzle flash is not pinned/welded and when removed I'm down to 26 1/2". I believe I'll be able to cut 1/2" off the buffer tube and still have sufficient threads to remount it.
If successful, I'll take pics and post here. I really hate that little spring that has to be retained during castle nut threading.... Wish me luck. |
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Posted: 6/8/2020 8:42:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Good luck. Since it's 16 tpi you just cut 8 threads off. How are you cutting your tube? I guess my father already cut one of his off but I didnt ask.
You'll have to shorten your buffer by the same amount. Also pay attention to how much bolt travel you have past your bolt catch. Too much and the catch will break. I think it's suppose to be 3/16ish. I was looking at my 2 extra tubes and tried them in the brace to verify that they are mil spec. I also compared them to the buffer piece I cut off and noticed that I may need to trim the brace afterwards for it to collapse all the way.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/9/2020 1:17:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Got the first batch of tungsten weights in and took some weights.
Factory buffer was 2.850oz Factory Buffer cut down to two weights 2.080oz Factory buffer with 3 tungsten 5.525oz Cut down buffer with 2 tungsten 3.860oz With a steel and one tungsten you're about at factory weight. I'm a big fan of heavy buffers. It just seems to smooth out the recoil pulse on these pistols.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/10/2020 1:37:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Got the 12" Faxon Gunner 6.5 barrel and 11" Mlok handgaurd in and installed today. Thanks MDC.
 Upside is that it should shoot better and it's a half a pound lighter.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/10/2020 1:58:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Glad everyone had to blow a bunch of money for... reasons...
On the upside I should drop a couple ounces off my total weight. 
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Posted: 6/10/2020 8:40:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Finished cutting the buffer tubes down and sanding down the ridge on the bottom. Finished and tested tube length was 6.55". Also figured out that the factory spring wouldn't compress enough and had to cut 8 coils off to get enough bolt travel. I dont know if it has enough spring after that but it seems close. I ordered Strike industries flat wire ones since a suppressed 6.5 grendel needs all the help it can get.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/11/2020 11:11:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finished cutting the buffer tubes down and sanding down the ridge on the bottom. Finished and tested tube length was 6.55". Also figured out that the factory spring wouldn't compress enough and had to cut 8 coils off to get enough bolt travel. I dont know if it has enough spring after that but it seems close. I ordered Strike industries flat wire ones since a suppressed 6.5 grendel needs all the help it can get. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/26018/20200610_175116_jpg-1456376.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/26018/20200610_184404_jpg-1456378.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/26018/20200610_161345_jpg-1456535.JPG @bendigo78  Great work. |
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Posted: 6/11/2020 12:25:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @bendigo78 Great work. Thanks, I hope this helps some people. I'm puking all of this on here so in 3 months when several of my hunting buddies start asking about this, my forgetful ass can easily find it an point them here. |
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Posted: 6/11/2020 6:31:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Got the die and threaded 2 tubes today. Not as easy as I thought it would be. Ended up using a vice, a sacrificial m4 stock, and an 18" pipe wrench. Got it done without injury or destruction.
 Attached FilePut it together waiting on the spring. Threw some paint on the threads earlier.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/11/2020 7:34:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got the die and threaded 2 tubes today. Not as easy as I thought it would be. Ended up using a vice, a sacrificial m4 stock, and an 18" pipe wrench. Got it done without injury or destruction. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/26018/20200611_133152_jpg-1457579.JPG Put it together waiting on the spring. Threw some paint on the threads earlier. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/26018/20200611_175136_jpg-1457642.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/26018/20200611_175352_jpg-1457643.JPG |
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Posted: 6/11/2020 8:50:40 PM EDT
[#26]
I used a ton of tap magic. This die doesnt have the adjustable split in it. It seemed to fight the anodizing more than anything. I'd post the pic of how I was set up to do this but its absurd. I'm not a mechanical person. (Thus the dummy Mark's on the first tube).
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Posted: 6/11/2020 9:15:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Ups just dropped off the AR Stoner flat buffer springs. They are surprisingly nice for $20.
Very similar in stiffness to the tubbs. Put the buffer in it and checked function. Looks good. Pretty close to that 3/16" bolt catch clearance.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:36:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Did some measuring to determine how much of the brace to cut off.
At the current length it has 4 locking positions and doesnt lock at the collapsed position. By my measurements, to get the 5th position you need to trim 1/8" or the angled edge off.  Attached FileTo get the 6th position you need to cut 3/4" off.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/14/2020 8:30:46 PM EDT
[#29]
I thought the brace, itself, could be removed and only the buffer tube to the muzzle flash [or if that is also re moveable, then] barrel length was the required measurement?
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Posted: 6/14/2020 9:08:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the brace, itself, could be removed and only the buffer tube to the muzzle flash [or if that is also re moveable, then] barrel length was the required measurement? Yes, I was just showing the possible trim places for the brace if anyone wanted to trim their brace up for the most compact package. |
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Posted: 6/14/2020 9:19:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Today we threaded Dads psa grendel buffer tube. His barrel must be shorter than mine because his tube was 1/8" longer and his rifle ended up an 1/8" shorter.
Both guns ran perfect ejecting to 4 o'clock. Suppressed it was 3 oclock. Wasnt terribly impressed with the faxon barrel but we'll see where it breaks in. |
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Posted: 8/1/2020 3:43:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Figured I ought to update the info on my faxon barrel as to not turn anyone away from what's become a great barrel.
I changed my powder from cfe223 to xbr8208 and all my groups went from 2-4 moa to 1 moa.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 8/2/2020 2:10:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Got the new mo conservation mag the other day.....sure enough lists “new handgun definition” in the hunting reg changes. What a crock of shit and backdoor way to restrict ar’s.
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Posted: 8/3/2020 7:45:38 PM EDT
[#34]
were does a 10.5 barrel with a Law folder falls in
the regs anyone ?? thats what i used the last couple of years with my Grandson . |
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Posted: 8/3/2020 8:58:09 PM EDT
[#35]
If it's within the legal length, I don't see why there would be any issue.
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Posted: 8/25/2020 7:18:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Keeping this thread active as we approach hunting season and some of us need to alter our pistols.
bendigo78 has done great research and I, for one, am going to follow his lead. Thanks @bendigo78 |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 12:49:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Thank you. I've used it for a reference several times already.
I'm working up deer loads for the pistol. Trying some Nosler accubond long range 129grn. While looking for a dedicated brace for this pistol I discovered that the SBA4 is 3/4" or more longer than the SBA3. I don't care for the look but the extra length would come in handy. |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 7:18:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. I've used it for a reference several times already. I'm working up deer loads for the pistol. Trying some Nosler accubond long range 129grn. While looking for a dedicated brace for this pistol I discovered that the SBA4 is 3/4" or more longer than the SBA3. I don't care for the look but the extra length would come in handy. ^ PM sent @bendigo78 |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 9:33:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Sba4 on the trimmed tube compared to Sba3 on a full length tube.
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Posted: 10/25/2020 9:42:27 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dad and I are trying to find shorter buffer tube solutions to get our 12" & 13" grendel's under 26". Looks like cmmgs rip brace could cut an inch or more off with the shorter buffer tube. ****Edited to Add a reasonably priced commercial option before I get into the DIY mess below.**** This maybe even shorter than the 3/4" shortening modifications I make later in the thread. From their description "The Ultra Compact Stock Assembly is 1.5" shorter than their standard compact stock" Lwrci Uciw short Buffer tube $35 Tried to verify that this was Milspec and this is the best I could do "The diameter however is similar to the MIL-SPEC" LWRCI UCIW Buffer $35 This maybe the same as AR10 carbine buffer but I can't find any specs on it. LWRCI UCIW Buffer Spring $16 @bendigo78 I've been waiting for months for the buffer tube to end being out of stock but I've given up waiting so I ordered the other LWRCI parts and I'm going to cut down my current tube to get me an 1/8th under 26" and hope all the parts play well with each other. Thanks for the resource. |
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Posted: 10/28/2020 7:48:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Figured I ought to update the info on my faxon barrel as to not turn anyone away from what's become a great barrel. I changed my powder from cfe223 to xbr8208 and all my groups went from 2-4 moa to 1 moa. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/26018/20200712_110708_jpg-1528814.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/26018/20200712_113828_jpg-1528815.JPG That's some good shooting. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 2:19:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Forgot this bullshit passed... now I gotta go measure my daughter's .300BO build.
I know it's a 10.5 barrel with a 3in flash can that's removable, but I have a 12in rail with the can tucked underneath. Is length based off barrel bore or would it be the rail that extends out over it... I'd really like to not have to dick around with cutting down a buffer tube. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 6:08:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forgot this bullshit passed... now I gotta go measure my daughter's .300BO build. I know it's a 10.5 barrel with a 3in flash can that's removable, but I have a 12in rail with the can tucked underneath. Is length based off barrel bore or would it be the rail that extends out over it... I'd really like to not have to dick around with cutting down a buffer tube. It says "muzzle" with the can removed. I would think that you'd be within the limits of how it's written but good luck finding an agent that would interpret it that way. It'd be easier and cheaper to snag a shorter handgaurd that mounts the same and just swap them out for season. That 11" I put on mine was $55 from joe bobs. ETA It was the 11" matrix on sale for $55.95 now. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 6:25:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @bendigo78 I've been waiting for months for the buffer tube to end being out of stock but I've given up waiting so I ordered the other LWRCI parts and I'm going to cut down my current tube to get me an 1/8th under 26" and hope all the parts play well with each other. Thanks for the resource. If your tube is too long for the shorter buffer (but under the 26") you can add quarters to the tube to get your bolt to bolt catch clearance closer. |
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Posted: 11/3/2020 5:30:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Thanks, I like the tucked look, but it's mostly cosmetic... time to swap back to a quad rail cheese grater again anyways for more night time attachments
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Posted: 11/4/2020 10:26:04 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If your tube is too long for the shorter buffer (but under the 26") you can add quarters to the tube to get your bolt to bolt catch clearance closer. Thanks for the tip, work is killing me right now and I want to go slow in doing the change [since I am a novice] so haven't had the time yet. I assume you're suggesting I'd slide the quarters in before anything else to 'shorten' it sufficiently? |
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Posted: 11/8/2020 10:30:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Yes. Reassemble it normally, check the bolt catch clearance, then pull the buffer and spring and add quarters as needed and reassemble
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Posted: 11/24/2020 12:53:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Following @bendigo78 research and advice I decided to go for the LWRCI modification. Buffer tube was out of stock.
Waited a couple of months hoping to buy the shorter buffer tube with the other components, finally gave up and ordered the buffer and spring. 2 days later get an email that the tubes are back in stock  So ordered the tube after the fact. With the tube I cut, the length was 25 7/8, with the new tube it is 25 1/8. I'm very pleased with the new modification.  Attached File Attached FileShoots well, now I have to sight it in. Will be ready for alternative season now. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 12:30:10 PM EDT
[#49]
Nice work and pics.
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Posted: 12/26/2020 12:10:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Thanks for posting all of this. I’m going to be doing this myself for a 6.5 Grendel pistol.
Using LWRC UCIW stock kit and using a brace, instead of the stock included in the kit.... Can I get a 12.5 inch barrel and still come in under 26 inches OAL? |
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