You must be reading my mind! The overhead and startup costs won't be a problem as I have the capitol. There WILL be a top notch gunsmith that will be onsite to do work while you wait.

What the big box stores offer:
racks of fishing poles
archery equipment
all the hunting clothes you'd ever need for all sizes up to 5XL
all types of scents/bait/knives/equipment for hunting
camping equipment, jerky makers, sleeping bags
junk that nobody needs
huge inventory of fudd rifles of all flavors
and all of that is for less than you could sell it.

What the big box stores lack:
knowledgeable and friendly salespeople
an environment where you can sit down, relax, have a cup of coffee
a place where women feel comfortable either shopping or hanging out while waiting for their man to shop
customer-available internet for price checking and online shopping
willingness to assist internet sales from places like AIMsurplus and SOG
force on force training/games that can be done in street clothes with CCW gun clones (airsoft)
custom AR15 assembly (and not just high-end either, like a reasonably priced low-end KISS gun, or custom setup like lightweight 16" pencil barrel with 1 in 7" twist chromed bore... etc.)

Good stuff! A nice lounge is definately a must and I already know exactly how I will set that up. I am thinking relaxing chairs/sofas, large plasma or lcd TV, free coffee, free bottled water, free soda, maybe a popcorn machine.

Anybody got any good ideas for the name of the store?

I am one of the people that voted No. I am not a Fan of Stores and rather shop and buy my stuff Online. I have never been a big Fan of Store shopping I don't even like to go to a Grocery Story but out of necessity I have to.
One other reason is also perhaps that I live down south and I am rarely in St. Louis and when I am in St. Louis I visit Top Gun not to Purchase anything but rather than to use the Range. I have my own Property where I shoot but sometimes it is nice to shoot there on my way back home. One other thing I do not like is that you have to pay Sales Tax when you buy stuff in a Gun Store or any store for that matter this gives Online businesses an advantage, this is especially an added expense when you purchase a 2k or 3k Rifle.
I know this is not a big help to you just saying from my point of view one more store would not make a difference to me.

On a different note perhaps this may not be a good time to start this type of business as others mentioned. I think the St. Louis area is pretty saturated already with those Types of Stores. I am not sure if it would make more sense to see if you would be able to purchase or partner with an existing Store / Shop and implement those ideas that you have and others have mentioned rather than starting from scratch.
If you decide to open a new store Location Location and Location is in my opinion very important if not the most important thing to consider.

What ever you decide to do I wish you all the best and hope that you will succeed with what ever you have planned.

Ammo Alley? I still would like one of these stores you are envisioning in JC.

My vote would be the wentzville area, I don't know of anyplace in that particular area that has a decent shop and you would have Highway 70/40 traffic covered then.

If you want to do your homework take a visit to Mike's Gun's in St. Charles and do some price checking.  He beats the HELL out of Cabelas/Bass Pro's prices.  

Example:  I was in the market for a Springfield XDm last year August.  I went to Bass Pro $699, I went to Cabelas $649, I get a flyer in the mail from Cabelas with XDm's @ $619 on sale, I went to Mike's later that day and purchased brand new in stock for $560 + tax.  If you can match Mike's prices you will do fine....if not it's going to be a long hard road.

I know you say you have the funds covered but consider this.  If you want to be competetive with other stores you are going to need a nice selection IN STOCK.  I would say you will need somewhere around 200 firearms (handguns/rifles/shotguns) on hand for a decent start.  Nobody wants to wait for an order if they don't have to and that can be a deal breaker for me.  Lets say with an average cost to you around $500 you are looking at $100,000 in overhead before you even make a sale....and that is just firearms.  Add a nice diverse selection of reloading/ammo and you could almost double that.  There is much more to consider on top of that in monthly costs.  Don't forget the safes required to have an FFL.

Also might want to submit the paperwork for the FFL as soon as possible, I hear that stuff takes a while.

Good luck and if you do in fact get this going keep us posted.

What you have described is much more interesting than what I imagined. I will upgrade my status so curious and I will definitely drop by if/when you open your store.
Keep us updated.

Procharger, I believe that the BATF will actually allow the building itself to be a safe if it is sufficiently secure(to their standards). I know all the gun shops I go to use a cable lock through their trigger guards and have barred windows and a secure front/rear doors.

Whatever you sell, for whatever the price, and no matter how much you have available to sell....

Make the building really large and a couple, three, four, stories tall.  Cover the roof with solar panels, security posts, etc.
Have community kitchen/bathroom/shower/laundry on every floor as well as a bunch of dorm room type set ups.
Offer 10'X10', 10' X 20', and 10' x 30' secure storage units/rooms.  They can be located above ground or underground by the multiple generator rooms, propane and fuel tanks.
Make sure there are Medical personel, plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, metal fabricators, electricians, HAM operators, etc. participating in this 'community center'.
Be really careful who the 'community organizer' will be...

SHTF??  We take our families there, train our guns out toward the chaos, stop it from getting past the street, assist everyone who comes for help, and welcome those who come to support.

It would be nice if there were one of these community centers on each side of the multiple rivers in the area...

From what you have planned, I would suggest "The Money Pit"  

I'd be alot more impressed if it had a rifle range out to 1000 or farther. Nowhere around here to shoot this without asking a farmer.

WTF???  

Yea, don't mind me.  After reading a few SHTF books, I keep thinking of a way for a whole bunch of folks to be organized and ready.

Flame away.

I've actually drawn up semi professional plans for a multi-family residence that is protected, concealable, and secure. It would be up to picking a location that would allow it to be defendable from the perimeter.

Can you grow potatos, and have access to clean water, as well as a way to dispose of sewage and other waste?  Otherwise, it's going to end pretty quickly.

Interesting concept. I'm in Kirkwood and I have been to Cabela's and Bass Pro, as well as, Denny Dennis. I have bought one gun from Cabela's.  Generally, I go there to look at something I'm interested in and then buy it through an independent FFL. I can normally, save a lot of cash.

I have bought a couple of guns from a place called GameMaster's in Quincy, Il and a couple of used guns from a place called Gun Fun in Quincy.  The people at both places are knowledgeable and friendly.  

My main gripe with Cabela's and Bass Pro is that the people behind the counter don't know anything. Their prices are high and generally you can't get any help.  I haven't been to Mike's but am going to make the trip.

My question is what are you going to offer different than the current competition?  

I'm starting to reload and am buying things from Midway and Graf's.  Generally, I will look here for info and advice and then order from them. If, Ihave a question I generally get a pretty good answer from Midway & Graf's via a phone call.

My suggestion, hire knowledgeable people and provide excellent service and advice. Also, how about classes free or inexpensive for some of the ancillary things like reloading.

I have given the thought about what to do if SHTF. A secure base has the problem of being a sitting duck target. And a mobile base per say has it's draw backs too. You need a base per say, but only a few know of its exisitance with the majority in a mobile status.

Jeff City has Ammo Alley. Columbia has Target Masters. Both have indoor ranges. Their are outdoor shooting ranges in both towns as well.

Wrong. When it comes to ammo, price is where it's at.

BTW, you can't specialize in everything. That would be no specialty at all.

I hate to say it, but the only thing that a local gun shop offers me is transfers and used guns. For EVERY THING else, I have much wider selection, better availability and better prices shopping on the web.

For the life of me, I can't understand what would prompt a sane person to tie up a bunch of money in inventory that he can't buy any cheaper than his customers can find it online.

If it wasn't for the legal monopoly on gun transfers that the BATF has bestowed on FFL's, they would go out of business. By requiring that you at least do your paperwork in front of a licensed dealer, they've created a safety net for gun shops. Otherwise, they'd never be able to compete. Yes, they (sometimes) offer knowledge and expertise, but more often than not, your average gun dealer isn't nearly as well informed as your average ARFcom member.

Originally posted by STLMags


I'll have to beg your forgiveness...... I'm ever the realist.... and a small business owner.... an avid reloader, gun tinkerer, and enthusiast. While I admire your dream. This is the "Sho Me" State. I have friends in the business of selling guns and gun smithing. Lee at Powder Horn in Columbia has in excess of half, if not close too a million in inventory including archery and he doesn't have shit.........

Most of my business is done dock five at MidwayMailOrderUSA. They have a lot of stuff, some priced too high and some not so high. They have zero technical product support, they claim it's not cost effective. Graff's has great customer support for most of their products but can be a little higher than Midway. Wal Mart has great prices with a narrow product scale. Bass Pro has high prices and so, so customer support. Cabala's about the same..... I've been to all kinds of Mom and Pop ranges and gun shops in several states. In all the places I have mentioned, I have yet to see one place be what you describe you want your shop to be. If guessing that I could do half of what you describe your dream shop to be.... I'd say a 5 million dollar outlay of cash is necessary, plus some extremely generous lines of credit established with banks and vendors.....and with that not be even close to price competeting with the likes of Midway, Graffs, Wideners, Wal Mart and the likes of. Also, to paint an even bleaker picture. How do you compete with the non store front internet gun dealers who sell lower than store front dealers can even think about and they don't charge sales tax to out of state buyers. All one needs is an FFL who handles transfers for $25.00 and you'd be silliy for buying a gun, in state. Can't remember the last gun I bought in Missouri... Seriously. My last pistol purchased was a Kahr PM9. Retail is $700 and some change. Wholesale Distrubtor cost from my sourced distributor is $509.00 before shipping and transfer fees. I gave $579.00 all costs in. Try selling guns from under glass like that and make enough to pay the light bills...... Good Luck. Now is the worst time I've ever seen to be in the business. We are in the backside of what was a super high and everyone's closets are full of ammo and safes full of black rifles.

I'm not the dream basher here, rather sharing some insight on what I feel it would take to make a living competing against the big guys. It would take a quarter million at a minimum just to  have a small corner shop somewhere that focused on a highly specialized niche market in gun powder and primers. Some high end ARs and bolt rifles. Carry a lot of Colt 1911s with on sight  custom gunsmithing that you had better know how to do yourself. Forget about the plastic pistols, No mark up.

One other fact, more shooting ranges are failing nowadays than succeeding. EPA is a bitch and you'd better figure on a water falled snail system to keep the lead at a minimum. Ranges without that lead trap system are having a hard time keeping the doors open. One such range in Columbia just spent over a month shut down over air lead levels.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor and best of luck deer hunting this year.

Not to derail the OP, but When it first opened, It was named Kevin's Guns, and My father used to have a rocking chair there.  I loved being to to sit down in a place like that and shoot the shite.

Welp, you just smacked me in the face with Reality and pee'ed on my dream...  :)



I've always hoped/dreamed of putting in another 10 years or so up here in St. Louis and somehow moving down to Park Hills or one of the surrounding areas and opening some kinda lil gun shop.....



Now, I think  if anything I might just call it Smullen's Fire Arms Transfer Service...

Outside of Fort Hood, Texas there is a little shop owned by some Koreans. It's in a small hole of a shop. They carry maybe 5 dozen pistols and about that many or maybe a few more in rifles. Their niche is gunpowder, primers, and bullets. They also sell a good supply of Mil Surplus ammo. They keep the hard to find rifles in stock when they can, and do a good job of it. Like 5R Remington's, National Match ARs and M14s. Various AKs. It's a neat store to just walk around in. Just enough room to make a 15 foot loop around the store. Stuff stacked on top of stuff with at least three sales people to help at all times. Not pushy, just available. One guy sits beside the powder locker and his only job seems to be retrieving powder as that's all he does. They have just about every kind of lead bullet made for pistols and do a good job of keeping Sierra Rifle bullets in stock. They still have to special order a lot of stuff in everyday. Which means they have to order store stock in with special orders in order to avoid charging shipping on special orders. It's a juggling match between liquid cash and inventory. That's my idea of a work able niche store without having 7 digits of capital invested.

The one unique ingredient of this store. It's located outside of a military base and is until recently been the only store of it's kind in the Killeen, Texas area. Killeen is surrounded by pawn shops that sell guns. Selling guns is not a high mark up business, neither is ammo sales.

I love the built it while you wait AR idea.  have a list of options and prices like an ice cream shop.

Thanks Josh,

that sure did jar the old memory. Now that you gave it a name from back before I do remember it was Kevin's Guns and ya there might have been a rocking chair there. My memory almost thinks there was a small wood burning stove, but I am sure there wasnt. But sure did have that old country store air about it.

I'm a small business owner (in business for nine years) with at least a couple brain cells and would have to say that operating a fledgling gun store in this economy would be tough.  Very tough.

As already stated, competing with Cabelas, Bass Pro, Walmart, and the small and large internet dealers will be difficult.  You won't be able to buy ammo for what Wally World sells it for.

Evidently, urban indoor ranges can be a decent money maker in the right hands.  If you go to a more rural area like Jeff City, it's going to be much harder to find people that will pay to shoot indoors when they can just go out to Uncle Joe's back forty to shoot.

If the STL Cabelas slashed pricing on their guns to near internet prices, they would probably sink every local gun dealer in town within a year.  I don't see that being outside of the realm of possibility with this shitty economy that has no end in sight.

I will have to be honest. After all of the opinions and comments so far I am not to confident about opening a store at this point. I would like to open a 1000 yard range and everything below. Would there be more interest in that?  Would there be any profitability in that? I am looking to start up my own business in something I love, but at the same time don't want to loose alot $$$ doing it. Suggestions? Ideas?

Thanks,

Ryan

Personally keep your hobbies as hobbies. Nothing like turning what has been pleasurable into w*rk.