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Posted: 9/25/2003 9:23:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 9:25:10 AM EDT by HKocher]
Thought you guys might get a kick out of this...

Here's the background. I don't care for Airsoft. I think it CAN be a useful training tool, and I'm sure it can be a lot of fun. I have no problem with shooters who also play airsoft, but I do NOT like the little punks who have never touched a real gun in their lives, yet think they are Rambo, because they won a couple Airsoft games. I equate those types with the 'gangsta' wannabes.

I also don't like how the little spoiled teens buy up so much of the good gear, and real gun parts (optics, Surefires, etc.) making the prices higher, and the backorders longer. There seems to be a lot of replica gear out there, so since they have replica guns, perhaps they should use replica gear. I'm not saying I deserve the gear more than they do, I'm just bitching because I don't like paying more and waiting longer.

Anyway, here's the thread that started this:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=206885&w=myTopicPop

I really got pissed at this guy, who claims to be a shooter, because he is equating the RKBA with the right to play Airsoft. Yeah, because airsoft is a Constitutional right...

Anyway, I was around Lightfighter.com (a gear forum, great dealer!) and eventually stumbled upon this thread...



http://www.airsoftplayers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14386



No need to make it a hot link, I don't want to attract trolls.

It appears if they have nominated me and the rest of the MODCC shooters as the new Missouri Militia. Funny, but I don't remember signing up for anything llke that...

Anyway, read the threads and enjoy! But please don't go over to the Airsoft thread to troll because it will only make us look bad, and attract a bunch of teenage trolls over here to annoy us. I don't want them trolling here, so I respect their right to not have us troll them.

I thought about posting to talk some sense into these kids, but they seem to be pretty liberal (anti-realguns) so I don't want to waste my time, and bring them to this board to ruin our fun.

BTW, I'm sure there are plenty of good folks, experienced mil/LEO, shooters and even responsible kids who airsoft, so I don't mean any disrespect to them. My problem is with the immature kids. Although I was also a know-it-all a-hole when I was a teen...
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 9:32:19 AM EDT
HKocher, so what's your new Rank, and do we need to salute you when were at the shoots now.
Ronald
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 9:57:52 AM EDT
Grand Pooba, and please address me as 'SIR' from now on...
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 10:09:20 AM EDT
Militia?? What militia? We are just a bunch of people who love to BBQ in the outdoors and shooting BS under a tarp tent .... right?
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 12:01:06 PM EDT
Oh boy...
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 12:24:01 PM EDT
Damn, I am back in the militia again?! I thought once you got kicked out for having an anti-social personality you were banned forever.
Seriously, it is just a bunch of kids who wish they had "real" guns. Anyone here remember Aesops fable about the fox and the sour grapes?
Fun reading though...
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 1:59:20 PM EDT
Speechless.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 2:44:10 PM EDT
I'm a militia of one... cause I'm lost in the woods all by myself again!

Link Posted: 9/25/2003 2:44:53 PM EDT
Damn!!!
Does this mean we have to drill???

If we have to drill, then I want to be up front so I won't get sea sick from the bobbing heads...

Can I carry the flag???

Don't be surprised if I show up with a D.I. Hat next shoot... -ha,ha

[gravel voice, and loud]Dress right, dress...[gravel voice, and loud]

Link Posted: 9/25/2003 4:02:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 4:08:10 PM EDT by HKocher]
I wish I was 15 again, because back then I knew everything about anything...

The funny thing is, I should cut them some slack if they are kids, because that's the way kids think. Yet some of those guys on that board are claiming to be adults. One said that 80% of airsoft players are adults. Not to mention that many are "'professionals'... architects, business owners etc, not your typical society bums" like us I presume. Yup, sounds like a lib to me...

If the guys posting over there are really adults, they should be ashamed of themselves for equating the right to defend one's life, with the 'right' to run around with a plastic gun and shoot BBs at another man's ass.

Frankly, most of them sound like liberals with a distaste for real guns and those that own them. That seems strange since they love toy guns. But I guess that's not that strange if you think about it. Afterall, if you live in a country that allows gun ownership and you are old enough to buy a firearm, yet you chose to play airsoft (exclusively), my guess is you have some hidden fear/distrust for firearms.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 4:11:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HKocher:
I wish I was 15 again, because back then I knew everything about anything...

The funny thing is, I should cut them some slack if they are kids, because that's the way kids think....



Hey, not all kids think like that! Personally, I prefer the real deal and have never even touched an Airsoft gun(if you can call it that).
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 4:22:19 PM EDT
Wipeout, you're absolutely right. Some 'kids' I know are much more responsible and mature then many of the 'adults' I know.

But I will be the first to admit that when I was a teen, I was a cocky little bastard who thought I knew everything. However I was a shooter when I was a teen, and I did respect those shooters with more experience than myself, so I guess I wasn't all bad.

I'm STILL a bastard, but at least now I realize I'm a little fish in a big pond.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 4:39:30 PM EDT
I didn't read any of the threads, but I have an Airsoft Glock that I'll bring to the next shoot and we can all shoot each other in the arse - Beta
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 5:37:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 5:47:50 PM EDT by METALMAN]
OK OK OK....so do all liberals hate guns? I guess I ask because my political/socio/religious ideas are so bizzare.

Lets see....I like guns,but I will not kill people for ANY reason (barring protecting my family),
and I think we need politicians (because they created their own infrastructure which unfortunately grew into everyone elses) but as well would prefer they actually DO something in life (like MAKE something, Lenin still rings true to this working man on some levels),
and lets see....
I feel I am a massively spiritual person, but at the same time I see all religions and people who follow them as SHEEP who question not the world they live in and follow the words of man blindly,

hmmmmm....I guess what it comes down to is that I am a passivist-agnostic-misanthrope-darwinist-pyromaniac-confused-somethingoranother

I am sure I am leaving a lot out....I'm confused!!!
As far as the militia thing goes....I want out if thats where this is going....I haven't even been IN!!!! I hail from the NorthWest where militia is a reality with many conservatives and racists whom I will never associate myself with. It has to start somewhere right? I think that this group isn't necessarily slated for that avenue, but do you see where I am getting at? All the best laid plans....blah blah...blah....I know this group is out for fun...but the point has been made
I think the positive thing to do is to fight the militia idea altogether...make that part of the name of the group!!!
The Missouri Defensive Carbine Anti-Militia Club (MODAMC)
politics are pervasive....no?

I just wanna shoot!

And piss people off whenever possible!!HAHAHAHAH!!
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 5:38:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Beta_MO:
I didn't read any of the threads, but I have an Airsoft Glock that I'll bring to the next shoot and we can all shoot each other in the arse

- Beta



Beta_MO,

it may be fun, but mixing prop/toy gun that looks real with the real ones may not be the safest thing to do.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 5:44:18 PM EDT
Um, no. Do not bring an airsoft Glock and shoot someone in the ass. Not when there are 10 or so real handguns lying around the firing line.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 7:20:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 7:39:31 PM EDT by Beta_MO]

Originally Posted By MouseGun87:

Originally Posted By Beta_MO:
I didn't read any of the threads, but I have an Airsoft Glock that I'll bring to the next shoot and we can all shoot each other in the arse hr


Beta_MO,

it may be fun, but mixing prop/toy gun that looks real with the real ones may not be the safest thing to do.



Sorry, but that was just a JOKE, sorry if you didn't get it! hehehe


If the guys posting over there are really adults, they should be ashamed of themselves for equating the right to defend one's life, with the 'right' to run around with a plastic gun and shoot BBs at another man's ass.

Link Posted: 9/25/2003 8:13:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 8:15:55 PM EDT by Beta_MO]

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Um, no. Do not bring an airsoft Glock and shoot someone in the ass. Not when there are 10 or so real handguns lying around the firing line.



Did I say I was going to shoot someone in the ass? You should mellow out on your responses, you come off a bit harsh.

- Beta
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 8:22:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Beta_MO:

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Um, no. Do not bring an airsoft Glock and shoot someone in the ass. Not when there are 10 or so real handguns lying around the firing line.



Did I say I was going to shoot someone in the ass? You should mellow out on your responses, you come off a bit harsh.

- Beta



No, Mike is a safety minded type guy.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 8:33:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 8:39:53 PM EDT by Beta_MO]
That's right I am!

- Beta (another Mike)
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 11:11:33 PM EDT
Arse, ass, its all the same to me. Well, not really, ass is what I kick and arse is what I... aww never mind, too much info.

I figured you might be joking, didn't mean to be harsh. I'm very good at being harsh though, that was the one thing they didn't need to teach me in law school. I had to learn contracts and property, but the asshole attitude came naturally...
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 12:07:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2003 12:14:16 AM EDT by tszipper]
Hey -Duke-Nukem-

Man you kill me with the cool pics. I have to say for someone I have never seen. You rock!!!headbang.gifhail2.gif

Nice K-Bar. HOOO RAH.

No drill please I will fall out and whine and complain [>Q] about my stress fracture till someone shoots me and we don’t want another Black Rifle Incident do we?h

I have been known to bust a few paintballs though. Pretty fun.heavy.gif

Link Posted: 9/26/2003 5:00:03 AM EDT
Momma said I got to stay home and no play if this becomes a militia ..... but I can still shoot.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 6:26:21 AM EDT
This is really funny to me...

Has everyone already forgotten that when we first started discussing getting together for some organized shooting - the subject of Militia never, ever entered into the equation...

The main purpose as HKocher originally stated is to "Have Fun"...
The secondary purpose is to learn some self-defense skills, and get some trgger time...

What I love best is it beats shooting at a paper target from a benchrest...

That said, now I'm going to interject a comment that might draw fire... oh,well...

The only time I would seriously consider joining, or forming a militia group is if the SHTF, or America degenerated into a state of anarchy...
And then it would only be for our mutual defense and self-preservation...
The term 'Militia' has value in this context...

What many people forget is that the origin of the militia of the Colonial period of our history was formed be neighboring families and farms for mutual protection against indian attacks - which pre-dated the Revolution, and even the French & Indian War...
Granted the Indians later on got a raw deal, but initially, America was weak, and colonists were spread out and easy prey for anyone who saw them as unarmed, or unprotected...
Hence, the 2nd Amendment was an intregral part of the mindset and lifestyle of the average American - it was pure suicide to travel unarmed...

Link Posted: 9/26/2003 6:39:56 AM EDT
NO, THIS IS NOT A GOD-DAMNED MILITIA, AND YES, I AM YELLING!

We help each other out, we have fun, we learn to shoot SAFELY, and we try to keep our right to defend ourselves, our families, and our neighbors. There is NO political agenda here (other than RKBA), and there is NO religious/non-religious bigotry. METALMAN is as welcome to shoot as -I- am, as long as he is safe, and doesn't bring an Airsoft Glock and start shooting people in the arse Besides, we need those funky stocks of his!

As you were.

We return you to your previously scheduled program.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 7:42:10 AM EDT
Cutter,

I'd much rather think of ourselves as "The Band of Brothers" (and Sisters too if we can convince more female members to participate). We shoot together, practice together, share our guns and ammo together, eat BBQ together, BSing together, organizing a match together ... by golly, we may be solid enough to fight together for a noble cause. But like Kpel308 said, we are not a militia.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 8:09:55 AM EDT
Beta_MO
I got your joke...

In fact, most every response (including my initial one on drills) were intended to be satirical, and funny...

It's going to take awhile, but I believe most of the guys that attend the shoot are pretty laid back - haven't met anyone that strikes me as being extreme...

Link Posted: 9/26/2003 8:11:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MouseGun87:
Cutter,

I'd much rather think of ourselves as "The Band of Brothers" (and Sisters too if we can convince more female members to participate). We shoot together, practice together, share our guns and ammo together, eat BBQ together, BSing together, organizing a match together ... by golly, we may be solid enough to fight together for a noble cause. But like Kpel308 said, we are not a militia.



I could not agree with you more...
Very well put...

Link Posted: 9/26/2003 9:28:55 AM EDT
This thread went a whole different route while I was gone...

Listen, I don't think that one day you wake up, and realize you're part of the 'militia.' In fact that was the whole point of this thread. Some kids decided to label us and I thought it was funny.

I figure if you are in a 'militia' you know damn well you are in a 'militia.'

MODCC is not much different then IDPA or IPSC, etc. Sure we're MUCH smaller, and sure we are MUCH more laid back, but in the end, we're a 'competitive' shooting club. The main purposes of MODCC are to have a good time, and to learn/practice defensive shooting. However each individual shooter will make their own determinations of what MODCC means to them.

So in a word, 'NO' this is not a 'militia' nor will it become one someday.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 9:37:28 AM EDT
There's one thing about this thread that is bugging me, so I have to get it off my chest...

I'm not part of any organized group of gun owners (aka the 'Militia') and I never will be. However I'm sure I know some folks that are, and they are good folks.


Main Entry: mi·li·tia
Pronunciation: m&-'li-sh&
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, military service, from milit-, miles
Date: circa 1660
1 a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency b : a body of citizens organized for military service
2 : the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service



At what point did this become such a bad thing??? Probably about the same time that the media/hollywood started portraying gun owners as a bunch of backwards, uneducated, racist, cop killing, bible thumping inbreds...

Sure there are some bad 'militia' folks that have bad ideas, but please don't fall prey to the media's definition of 'militia,' whatever that might be.

Remember, that those folks are fellow gun owners, and probably share some of our same beliefs. Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but I am not willing to accept the word of the media on this issue.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 10:23:02 AM EDT
Excellent point Chris...

Hollywood & Media have tried to stigmatize RKBA'ers as Militant Militia types, or at the very least muddle the line between the two...

Link Posted: 9/26/2003 11:53:43 AM EDT
militia is a defined word in the U.S. Code.
10 USC 310 states in its entirety:

TITLE 10 Sec. 311. - Militia: composition and classes

(a)

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b)

The classes of the militia are -

(1)

the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2)

the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia



See, that was simple. MODCC is NOT the militia, but some of the participants are members of the militia. Oddly enough a number of people that we routinely think of as members of the militia are actually exempted from service. This goes for ALL females unless serving in the National Guard and the following classes found at 10 USC 312:
TITLE 10 Sec. 312. - Militia duty: exemptions

(a)

The following persons are exempt from militia duty:

(1) The Vice President.

(2)

The judicial and executive officers of the United States, the several States and Territories, and Puerto Rico.

(3)

Members of the armed forces, except members who are not on active duty.

(4)

Customhouse clerks.

(5)

Persons employed by the United States in the transmission of mail.

(6)

Workmen employed in armories, arsenals, and naval shipyards of the United States.

(7)

Pilots on navigable waters.

(8)

Mariners in the sea service of a citizen of, or a merchant in, the United States.

(b)

A person who claims exemption because of religious belief is exempt from militia duty in a combatant capacity, if the conscientious holding of that belief is established under such regulations as the President may prescribe. However, such a person is not exempt from militia duty that the President determines to be noncombatant


Hope that helps.

Jeff D.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 12:46:32 PM EDT
Ok Ok we are not a militia.
Can we get back to airsoft bashing? hair.gifJust Kidding.have
I would have to agree that if the SHTF I would be one of the first to volunteer myself to the any militia that showed it mug.

But till then I well enjoy the freedom of BBQing and shooting on my time off.

Ok my .02
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 12:48:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2003 12:50:24 PM EDT by HKocher]

Originally Posted By Miranthis:
militia is a defined word in the U.S. Code.
10 USC 310 states in its entirety:
<snip>



And there you have it. As Jeff has pointed out, MODCC is not THE militia, however according to U.S. Code. 10 USC 310 I guess I would technically be part of the militia, unless you don't consider me to be "able-bodied."

My point here is that somewhere along the line, somebody took the word 'militia' and gave it a new definition and a negative connotation. I don't know the new definition, but I think it would go something like this: "An organized group of gun owning, uneducated, racist, domestic terrorists who wish to overthrow the elected US Gov't."

Now anyone who knows me, will realize I only fit one part of that definition, the gun ownership part.

I'm not defending any groups that proclaim themselves to be the 'militia,' nor do I want to be a part of any of those groups. I just want you guys to think about the word and what is once meant, and the new meaning that the anti-gunners have successfully attached to the word. It's similar to the reason I don't call my firearms 'assault weapons', because that is another one of 'their' words, and I don't want to fall victim to their stereotypes.

Labels are very dangerous tools when used correctly...
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 12:51:11 PM EDT
Double damn!
I can't be a member of the militia, I work for the USPS.


(5)

Persons employed by the United States in the transmission of mail.


And I so wanted to be....

Seriously, MoDCC is nothing at all like a militia, it is simply a group of guys who enjoy shooting together and try to make it more fun and interesting than a person alone could make it.

However, most of the members of MoDCC are by definition members of the militia, see the above comments concerning the constitution.

Lets not get too politically involved here as that will surely kill our little group. In others words lets not turn into the plain/starbellied sneeches ok? (<-- Ref. Dr. Seuss)

BTW, I would think the militias would involve themselves in training such as,
Combat manuevers
First aid
Nuclear, Biological and Chemical response/training.
Drill and ceremony
Uniforms, wear and care of.
Tactics such as low crawling, rush and cover, cover vs. concealment etc.
And much much more.
I can tell you for a fact nobody at these meetings will ever intentionally get down in the mud and low crawl anywhere. Well, maybe Duke Nukem, but he is a bit wierd.
As for the rest of us, we just love to have fun shooting.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 1:24:16 PM EDT

.... I can tell you for a fact nobody at these meetings will ever intentionally get down in the mud and low crawl anywhere. Well, maybe Duke Nukem, but he is a bit wierd.
As for the rest of us, we just love to have fun shooting.



.... and watching Duke-Nukem doing the low crawl in the mud ..
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 7:14:31 PM EDT
Duke, you are a glutton for punishment...

I give you credit for having the balls to continue to post that pic, but I'm not letting you off that easily...

Link Posted: 9/26/2003 8:25:40 PM EDT
*sigh*

i leave for less than a week and where do you yahoos end up??? a frickin' militia group??

i SWEAR, if i didnt know you guys better, youd scare the beejeebers outta me

btw, duke, REAL sexy there

Link Posted: 9/27/2003 8:59:21 PM EDT
[Fat Bastard]

I'm dead sexay, yeahhhh! (rubs nipple) Oooooh!

[/Fat Bastard]

LOL, if you can't make fun of yourself on the internet, then you can't make fun of yourself period, and that's unhealthy. The only thing I can take seriously about any of this is the thought of someone else taking it seriously. Those poor bastards over at Lightfighter are missing the whole point, which is to HAVE FUN with it. Criminy its just the internet! Who cares?
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