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Posted: 7/4/2003 3:11:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2003 3:38:46 PM EDT by HKocher]
I'm pleased to announce that the first Missouri Defensive Carbine Club match is scheduled to begin at 10:00AM on Saturday, August 2nd.

Ultimately we plan to meet on the first Saturday of each month, pending good weather.

Target stands are done, and barricades are almost complete.

Website should be up soon with detailed shoot info.

If there are any further questions, you can present them on this thread, or you can direct them to me by email at cmfaber@hotmail.com.

Thank you to everyone for their patience and a special thank you to those who supplied their time and resources to make the MODCC a reality!
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 4:24:33 AM EDT
Where?
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 10:18:04 AM EDT
Rocky Forks Conservation Area. Columbia, MO.

Same place that we have held the AR15.com Mid-MO shoots.
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 11:12:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2003 11:13:16 AM EDT by Hot-Lead]
I've got to work Sat. the 2nd, but my shift is at night I just may show up for this!

Any entry/range fees? My wife may want to shoot as well...
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 1:07:37 PM EDT
WEBSITE IS UP!!!

Please don't make fun, this was my first attempt, so it looks pretty rough. If anyone has some http skills, and they want to help dress it up a bit, let me know.

Anyway, all the important info is there.

modcc.port5.com/
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 1:15:56 PM EDT
No entry fee, but donations are appreciated to help pay for materials.

You and your wife are welcome of course!
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 6:10:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2003 6:18:27 AM EDT by Cutter75]
I'll get the permit request in to the CA ASAP...



Excellent webpage Chris!!!
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 6:34:39 PM EDT
I have a small suggestion regarding safety during the match.

I dont know how the match will be arranged, but I am guessing that we will have some people (shooters, organizers, RO, etc.) in front of the firing line (the benches) where people usually put their guns. To avoid any possible Accidental Discharge that may lead to injury or death, how about requiring every rifle used during the match to have the bolt open and a safety flag inserted into the chamber to signify that the rifle is indeed safe.

One of the cheapest yet effective safety flag is this one

www.creedmoorsports.com/C1291.html

It costs about $1.50, cheap yet very effective.

The chamber safety flag comes out only when the shooter is about to shoot the course. And it goes back into the gun as soon as the RO verifies the gun is indeed cleared and safe.

Please dont take this suggestion as an insult, but I tend not to trust people (including myself) when it comes to firearms safety unless I have ways to verify it visually. The bright yellow chamber flag is an effective way of telling other people that your gun is indeed safe. In fact, I dont trust myself enough to not use the chamber safety flag when I go to the range. For those here who have been out shooting with me for a while, you guys probably notice how I always use the safety flag on my guns. This is the safety procedure used in NRA high power rifle matches, and I think it is a good minimum standard to adopt for our defensive carbine match.

oz
Link Posted: 7/8/2003 3:16:46 AM EDT
I'm with you all the way on that one!
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 8:44:11 AM EDT

Great webpage Chris!

Is there any good resource material out there for this kind of stuff. I am gonna need all the help I can get. I hope you guys are patient! I don't want to go out and shoot myself in the foot! I am looking forward to it.

Eric

Link Posted: 7/9/2003 9:42:42 AM EDT
Thanks guys!

Eric, please don't shoot yourself in the foot as our match.

As long you follow the safety code on the webpage, you should be good to go. If you don't feel comfortable at first, watch a few guys run the course before you step up to the plate.

MODCC is set up to cater towards all types. So if you want to learn technique/etc., you're encouraged to watch other members and ask them for advice. On the other hand, I don't want newbies to feel intimidated, so everyone is asked to refrain from lecturing others (unless they ask for it) on what you might consider 'improper technique.' Unless, of course, someone is violating the safety code.


Oz,

Take a look at the website, you will see that safety is priority #1. While the courses are being run, all long-arms will be unloaded/cleared and out of hands, unless you're the shooter.

Safety flags are a great idea, however after having to personally budget for targets and timing materials, and Shamusmcoi has paid out of pocket for building material for stands and barricades, I think we're all tapped on funds for the first match.

I'll will look into that for the future though.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 2:04:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2003 2:05:37 PM EDT by Cutter75]
We have time till the match, so I will see what I can do to pick up some safety flags...

They will be FREE to everyone that shows to the first event...

After that??? We'll see...

OR, we could build a couple of simple rifle racks so long rifles are pointing up, and not down-range...
RO checks weapon into rifle rack, and hands weapon to next person to compete, then checks it back onto rack after shooter is finished...
This would be cheaper...
Got anymore scrap wood Shamus???

Link Posted: 7/10/2003 10:41:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Eric, please don't shoot yourself in the foot as our match.



I'll try not to hit mine, or anyone else's for that matter! I just have no experience with this kind of competition and can use all the help that I can get.

Is Duke Nukem going to give us another one of his famous instructional lectures? I could use it!

Eric
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 11:27:40 AM EDT
Hey, I'm a newbie! I've only shot my Bushy 3 or 4 times since I bought it! I can't wait! Still trying to convince the wife to shoot, but she'll be snapping pics anyway.

I got a buddy who wants to attend with an SKS. I figgered it was cool, so he's coming. But he only has one detatchable mag. Are there going to be mag changes in any of the COF?

Anybody got a Digital Camera?We need to give FDCC a run for the money!
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 12:45:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By holeshot4:
Is Duke Nukem going to give us another one of his famous instructional lectures? I could use it!

Eric



You'll have to ask him. I'm sure he's 100%willing to teach you whatever he knows.

However, any 'lectures' are NOT going to be a part of MODCC. We don't want guns handled while the matches are being run, and we don't want to take time out of the matches to run classes. But like I said, anyone who wishes to 'pick the brains' of any of the members are welcome to do so, as long as both parties are up for it.

This is done to keep MODCC fun and interesting for everyone involved and to not exclude any members.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 12:53:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hot-Lead:
Hey, I'm a newbie! I've only shot my Bushy 3 or I got a buddy who wants to attend with an SKS. I figgered it was cool, so he's coming. But he only has one detatchable mag. Are there going to be mag changes in any of the COF?

Anybody got a Digital Camera?We need to give FDCC a run for the money!



SKS is fine. One of my buds will probably be using his until I can convince him to buy an AR.

There WILL be mag changes, to make things interesting. So he might have to load with stripper clips. I think I read that someone at FDCC does that. Also, a shooter can switch to a secondary weapon (sidearm) as an alternative to reloading during a COF that requires a reload.

Keep in mind, this is friendly competition, so scoring doesn't matter much. I will personally use the scoring to judge myself against my own times, not to compare my score to any other shooters. But each shooter will have to determine for his/her self how much the scoring will mean to them.


A digital camera would be nice. I'd like to be able to post pics here to show people what they are missing.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 2:46:41 PM EDT
I can bring the digital camera.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 2:50:10 PM EDT
What other epuipment do you think we will need to bring that will be helpful i.e. a sling, mag pouches , estimated number of rounds?


Link Posted: 7/10/2003 5:31:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mythe:
What other epuipment do you think we will need to bring that will be helpful i.e. a sling, mag pouches , estimated number of rounds?





Whoops! Forgot to cut and paste the Gear & Equipment document over to the webpage, I'll add that, but in the mean time, here it is:


Gear and equipment

This is subject to the shooters preferences with a few exceptions.

Required gear:
Rifle/Carbine
Hearing AND eye protection, NO EXCEPTIONS!!! Shooters and spectators must adhere to this rule
2 magazines (more are recommended)
100 rds of ammunition (more is recommended)

Acceptable rifle/carbine: Centerfire and semi-automatic (C3 is allowed, but course must be run in semi). Rifle and pistol calibers are both welcome. Optic (magnified or non-) are also allowed. Lights, lasers, suppressors, slings, foregrips, etc… are all optional. Multiple longguns are allowed, as long as you run each individual course with the same rifle.
No shotguns.

Other gear:
Handguns with a holster are allowed and can be used (but not required) on course as a backup weapon, however, you can’t run the course with a handgun alone.
Mag pouches, vests, LBE, kneepads, etc… are optional.
Additional mags and ammo for your primary weapon are strongly encouraged.




Of course I would recommend more than 2 mags and over 100 rounds, but I wanted to leave this open to as many people as possible. Didn't want to scare away anyone who doesn't have a lot of equipment.

In particular, regarding ammo, do the math:
3-4 COF, 4-10 targets each, 2x hits to vital zone (or 1 head shot) to stop target... 100 rds will get you by if you're a great shot.

Or course if someone chooses, they don't have to run all the COF.

And yes, slings are very helpful, and so are mag pouches, but not required.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 3:52:26 PM EDT

Sweet, if I don't have a buttload of homework from the academy as I did last weekend, I'll be there.

Link Posted: 7/11/2003 5:47:40 PM EDT
Chris,

the safety flag should be the responsibility of the shooters. The match is already free, so dishing out $1.50-2.00 for a safety flag will not hurt their pocket. Moreover, the safety flag can be reused for later match or range trips.

If someone can spot the money to buy the safety flags in bulk, we can sell them to the shooters at cost (taking into account shipping etc.). It shouldnt be more than $2 each. This way nobody lose money. Shooters must accept the fact that running a match is not free of cost. Organizing a match already takes energy and time, so you guys shouldn't be losing money as well ....
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 1:59:59 AM EDT
Permit request to the CA submitted...


Would like to schedule a clean-up day the weekend of the 26th...
Suggest that Sunday is a better day for me...

Buckets, brooms, and hands needed...
Many hands make light work...

Link Posted: 7/19/2003 5:27:19 AM EDT
Chris,

any idea how long the match will be? I have a friend who is very interested to participate in the match, but he has a 10.00 appointment that Saturday.

I would like to repeat my recommendation on the use of chamber safety flag on all rifles for this match. The safety risk in this kind of match is higher than in high power match since here shooters take turn shooting the course and the shooters positions are dynamic (high power matches are static and shooters in the same relay all shoot at the same time). Also, in high power matches, movements of guns and people are limited. On the other hand, for IDPA type matches we will have a higher traffic of people and guns around the match arena. I dont mean to be an aXXhole that keeps bugging people about safety. But this is a serious issue .... we may lose the range if something bad happens ... heck, one or some of us may get injured or worse, dead, if we fail to follow the safety procedure. The yellow plastic thingy is not much .... it cost less than a box of 20 rd 223 surplus ammo. But it can help a great deal in enforcing range safety for all shooters. With this yellow plastic in place, one need not be an RO to be able to say "Yep, that rifle is in deed safe" ....

How about this .... we have sponsors, dont we? HOw about asking them to sell the chamber flag at the match? Those who already have one can bring theirs, but those who dont can buy it on the spot from one of the sponsors. CMMG is the closest sponsor we have, and I think this is something that Jeff and John can do for us.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 8:40:06 AM EDT
I am going to try to make it and since it is a "carbine" club I will bring a few extra guns if anyone would like to try them out.
Guns like;
M1 carbine
SAR 2 (And SAR 3 if I get one at the show tomorrow)
And if anyone would like to try I can also bring along anyone or all of these;
K98
K31
M38 Carcano
M44 (Your choice, Romanian, Hungarian or Polish)
Yugo SKS (M59/66)
Hey. all of them are "carbines" ya know.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:12:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cutter75:
Permit request to the CA submitted...


Would like to schedule a clean-up day the weekend of the 26th...
Suggest that Sunday is a better day for me...

Buckets, brooms, and hands needed...
Many hands make light work...




I'll be there if I don't have to work. Anyone else?

Eric
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:21:48 AM EDT
Guess who is working every day, 12 hour shifts, "for the duration".
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 12:05:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kpel308:
Guess who is working every day, 12 hour shifts, "for the duration".



All right boys, it's time for a MO ARFCOM fire mission. We gotta get Kpel a new job or new boss.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:57:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShakyJake:

Originally Posted By kpel308:
Guess who is working every day, 12 hour shifts, "for the duration".



All right boys, it's time for a MO ARFCOM fire mission. We gotta get Kpel a new job or new boss.



OK, we need his work schedule, and driving route info, and photos...
maps...
Who'll be on point...
It's got to look like an accident...

{grin}...just kidding...
So what kind of job are you looking for Kpel???

OR, I should say, what kind of job would you be willing to take???
Give us some guide lines and we can keep our eyes & ears opened - radar active...

Link Posted: 7/21/2003 7:07:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By holeshot4:

Originally Posted By Cutter75:
Permit request to the CA submitted...


Would like to schedule a clean-up day the weekend of the 26th...
Suggest that Sunday is a better day for me...

Buckets, brooms, and hands needed...
Many hands make light work...




I'll be there if I don't have to work. Anyone else?

Eric





Ya, I can probably be there on saturday (unless I'm working). Can be there for sure on sunday. What time we looking at? Eleven or twelve?

Link Posted: 7/21/2003 1:29:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cutter75:

Originally Posted By ShakyJake:

Originally Posted By kpel308:
Guess who is working every day, 12 hour shifts, "for the duration".



All right boys, it's time for a MO ARFCOM fire mission. We gotta get Kpel a new job or new boss.



OK, we need his work schedule, and driving route info, and photos...
maps...
Who'll be on point...
It's got to look like an accident...

{grin}...just kidding...
So what kind of job are you looking for Kpel???

OR, I should say, what kind of job would you be willing to take???
Give us some guide lines and we can keep our eyes & ears opened - radar active...




For the record, I didn't mean it that way

As far as this weekend, I'll be in Cinncinati so I can't make it for the clean up again. I'm gonna just have to road trip one week night and do some cleaning.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 2:50:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShakyJake:
For the record, I didn't mean it that way



I know you didn't, but then you know what a twisted sense of humor I have...

Shamus
I'd like to do this earlier in the day before it gets hot and unbearable...

Also, it turns out I might have to work Saturday and Sunday, but I will be there at the crack of dawn if I have to...
Say 7:30am - if we can get at least (4) guys...
(2) working each side of the range - one sweeping, the other with a bucket picking, scraping up piles of brass, then it should take more than an hour...
The more the merrier...
Many hands make lite work...

Link Posted: 7/22/2003 12:04:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/23/2003 1:01:41 AM EDT by kpel308]
Get this: Worked from 1700 to 0900 yesterday (today?), and have to go to work from 0400 to 1200 tomorrow (tonight?).

Check my resume, guys: Telecom tech, office administrator, executive protection specialist, convertor of virgins, destroyer of worlds!

Seriously: I NEED A NEW JOB. My boss is great, it's just that we are under "austere manning conditions."
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 1:26:34 PM EDT
MouseGun87,

Regarding how long it will last. That's a great question.

I will have 3 COF planned with an additional 4th if we have time, and shooters are still up for it.

It all depends on these factors: How long to setup, how many people show up, how long the courses take per person (including setup between shooters) and how long it takes to take everything down. Of course if there is still sunlight, I imagine people will stay to shoot after the matches. If I'm not too tired, I'd like to take some time to break in my SPR clone...

RE: The safety flags.

All guns will be on the bench, w/ actions open. RO will check table.

And no, we don't have any sponsors, I don't think we need any since I figure members will be donating to help pay for the shoots. It's better to not tie yourself to any particular vendor, ALTHOUGH, vendors are welcome to donate anything they wish.

BUT your idea is a good one. Here's a thought. Since we're just talking about simple safety indicators, if you would like to make some sort of improvised safety flag for the shooters, that would be great!

Off I go now to plan two more COF....
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 3:50:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cutter75:

Originally Posted By ShakyJake:
For the record, I didn't mean it that way



I know you didn't, but then you know what a twisted sense of humor I have...

Shamus
I'd like to do this earlier in the day before it gets hot and unbearable...

Also, it turns out I might have to work Saturday and Sunday, but I will be there at the crack of dawn if I have to...
Say 7:30am - if we can get at least (4) guys...
(2) working each side of the range - one sweeping, the other with a bucket picking, scraping up piles of brass, then it should take more than an hour...
The more the merrier...
Many hands make lite work...






Well I don't have to work. 7:30 is a little early for a saturday. Maybe 8:30 or 9:00?

I can bring a broom, dust pan, and rake. As well as some trash bags (don't have a trash can).


BTW, anyone else local who can help clean up?
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 5:00:31 PM EDT
i wont be able to do the match, dont think i shoot well enough and other things, but i meeting duke nukem sat at 10 at the range i guess i could get there at 9 or a little after to help clean up.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 6:44:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rmdye:
i wont be able to do the match, dont think i shoot well enough and other things, but i meeting duke nukem sat at 10 at the range i guess i could get there at 9 or a little after to help clean up.




Hey, don't worry so much about how well you can shoot. The only person you will be competing against is yourself.

It's about fun, plain and simple.

About the clean up, if you want to meet at 9 I'll be there.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 12:41:27 AM EDT
I won't beable to make it, got oncall that weekend.
I'll ask to not be oncall for the next.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 6:37:42 AM EDT
Can I get a show of hands of those folks that WILL be able to make it on Aug. 2?

This way I can have a good idea of what to expect and how much preparation we will need.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 11:13:14 AM EDT
Unless something major happens (super-unlikely), I'll be there! Looking foward to it!
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 12:44:50 PM EDT
90% chance for me to be there. I can't see anything keeping me away.
BTW, I will see what sort of construction supplies I can dig up. Do we need any tools? I should have at least a few 2x4s laying around.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 10:20:38 AM EDT
I can bring some 40"x48" cardboard sheets if that would help. Good for cover (if we have enough stakes) or target-backers. I'll bring 7 or 8 sheets just in case.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 2:09:42 PM EDT
I will be there...

Would not miss it for the world...

Link Posted: 7/26/2003 6:37:22 PM EDT
I would like to thank Shamus, Duke-Nukem, and rmdye for showing up for range cleaning this morning. This is the most intensive range cleaning to date performed by ARF.com MO crews. We not only policed the brass on the firing line, but Shamus and Rmdye also cleaned up the trash down range all the way to the berm. The range was very clean when we left at noon today.

Thanks for your effort guys!

oz
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 8:50:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MouseGun87:
I would like to thank Shamus, Duke-Nukem, and rmdye for showing up for range cleaning this morning. This is the most intensive range cleaning to date performed by ARF.com MO crews. We not only policed the brass on the firing line, but Shamus and Rmdye also cleaned up the trash down range all the way to the berm. The range was very clean when we left at noon today.

Thanks for your effort guys!

oz





Oz, it would have been much tougher had you not shown up with the pushbroom.


Ronald, you are making it for the shoot right?
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 9:18:54 PM EDT
You guys are all doing a great job, and it IS appreciated!
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 3:56:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kpel308:
You guys are all doing a great job, and it IS appreciated!



Ditto!!!
(I couldn't make it, because of a project at work that had to be scheduled this weekend...)

That pushbroom is great isn't it...
I will be speaking to Jim Loveless at the CA Monday, and let him know what a great job you guys are doing.
Again, "Thanks guys"...


Link Posted: 7/27/2003 6:23:36 AM EDT
BTW: I have a lead on a possible job that makes 75% more than what I am currently making... TO START! Still security work, but more up my alley. Checking it out on Monday, and hopefully I can bring my entire crew with me.

Here's to hoping that I've seen the end of 86 hour workweeks!
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 8:50:05 AM EDT
How about large cardboard boxes? They measure about 30"x30"x48", could they be used as obstacles? I have a few lying about and can probably get a few more.
BTW, tested my new Saiga after adapting it to use 30rd AK74 mags, it works great. Hopefully I will have the AK type pistol grip/stock assy on before next weekend.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 9:21:48 AM EDT
Oz you did most of the work, at least while Duke and i did our thing. Shamus i dont know i was thinking on comming out and just kind of watching you guys. i was debating on see if you guys wanted the matched video taped and then trunded into vcd or mepg. i have a new camcoder i have never used i was thinking i could film the mact and mayeb we coudl make dvd of them after the seson is done? what do you guys think? Ronald
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 11:42:44 AM EDT
GaryM

A couple of card board boxes could work pretty well until we can build a plywood barricades. 2 or 3 should be enough. I think we have enough sheets of cardboard for this shoot, but if you want to bring a few sheets just in case, that would be great.

All the target stands are built, so all we need to bring for the actual shoot are staple guns and box cutters. I'm bringing one of each. I'll also bring a hammer just in case.

As far as wood for the solid barricades, I'd like to have those by next match. Here's what I have been thinking. Since wood isn't cheap, plus it is a pain in the ass to move every shoot, we need to make due with as little as possible. I figure 3 or 4 full sized sheets of plywood will go a long way. Two sheets can have windows cut out in them to simulate walls of a house (holes can be covered with cardboard when needed to simulate a solid wall), another sheet can be cut in two pieces for smaller barricades. And the forth can be cut to simulate the outline of a car. These barricades will be braced by 2x4s to add stability.

Cutter, perhaps you could speak with the CA folks to see if there is a possibility of storing these barricades somewhere out of view behind the berms. This way they won't clutter up the range, and they will be less likely to be destroyed by teens or other a-holes.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 11:48:53 AM EDT
Ronald,

Taping the shoot is a neat idea, if you're willing to go through the trouble.

I would definitely like someone to take some pics, so we can post them here, to show the folks what they are missing out on.

You're more than welcome to shoot if you feel up to it. It's all about fun, so keep that in mind. Watch some of the other guys first, and if you want to shoot, you can jump in any time. You don't even have to run all courses. You could just run one. Hell, we don't even have to time it if you'd rather not.

Either way, it's up to you, but definitely come out with us.
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