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Posted: 2/3/2006 1:07:45 PM EDT
I read where there were a few busts at the Collinsville Trade Day of people selling guns illegally
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:13:06 PM EDT
Yep and a few other places. Took ATF two years to investigate. Two years when one bad sale would have done it. Our tax dollars at work.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:48:48 PM EDT
So explain this to me please.....Exactly what law did they break?......I mean, is there a law that says you can't sale individual to individual???......Or is it something like, if you are selling more than 10 guns your considered a dealer???......
I heard about the incident but I never heard exactly what they were charged for.

GhostCat
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:04:31 PM EDT
Selling guns without an FFL at flea markets and gun shows. Some sold over a hundred during investigation. Some guns turned up in crimes up north.

In addition, some undercover guys happened to mention they were buying from these sellers because they were felons and could not buy them from regular dealers.

A bunch of different guys were arrested. Write-up yesterday in Birmingham paper
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:14:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By alaman:
Selling guns without an FFL at flea markets and gun shows.



Selling Guns without a FFL is legal.....as long as its between (2) private individuals.........


Originally Posted By alaman:
Some sold over a hundred during investigation. Some guns turned up in crimes up north.



Selling over a hundred guns between two Private Individuals isn't illegal.....and Just because a couple of guns turned up in crimes up north doesn't mean the seller commited those crimes.


Originally Posted By alaman:
In addition, some undercover guys happened to mention they were buying from these sellers because they were felons and could not buy them from regular dealers..



Now THIS!!! might be Illegal.....but its more like the FELON broke the law and not the seller.

I'm still confused as to why these people were arrested......

Now don't get me wrong, I don't want people selling guns to criminals so that they can go and commit crimes with their guns.......But I still think our right to sell guns between Private individuals should be protected. I'm sure I'm missing something with this story.....

GhostCat
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:30:10 PM EDT
I saw a story on the news about it last night. Cant remeber which channel but they kept talking about the sale if "illegal guns". That is what pisses me off, the guns are not illegal! It is the sales that are Allegedly Illegal.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:46:02 PM EDT
Maybe it was buying and selling large quantities of firearms over a period of time....dealing without a license
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:01:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostCat:
Selling over a hundred guns between two multiple Private Individuals isn't illegal.....and Just because a couple of guns turned up in crimes up north doesn't mean the seller commited those crimes.


Uh, yes it is illegal. It's called dealing and that requires an FFL.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:41:51 AM EDT
A person can sell a lot of guns without having a license, etc IF they aren't making their living from doing so or operating a storefront (i.e. a booth at a Flea Market is considered a storefront). I'm afraid these guys don't have a leg to stand on.

This is just more fodder for the Anti's to use against us.

Rick
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:15:13 AM EDT
Some of you guys really need to bone up on the law....

Private sales are legal.

Buying and selling guns to make a profit is "dealing" whether or not you're making a living at it.

Selling a gun to an admitted felon or anyone else not eligible to own a firearm with prior knowledge of the buyers ineligibiltiy is a felony.

Selling a firearm to someone who is not a resident of your own state is a felony.

Example, you're at a gunshow and you buy a gun from a guy and then turn around the same show and try to sell that gun for a profit, you're "dealing" in firearms.

The "private sale" provision in the law is to allow residents of the same state to buy and sell firearms from each other for their own personal "use".

A legitimate "use" does not include buying it to sell at a profit. People engaged in business buy inventory to turn at a profit. This has held up in court every single time. There are dozens of guys doing time in the Federal big house for buying a gun and turning around and selling it at a profit.

Now the caveat to that is you buy a gun and months or years later it has appreciated in value and then you sell it at a fair market price, that's not a crime.

That's also why ATF will make several buys from someone before arresting them... they want to be sure that the guy is really "in business" and it's not just something that's happened once or twice.

Most of these guys have been "turned in" or informed on to begin with, usually by licensed dealers or someone they sold a gun to that was an unqualified buyer and got caught with it.

When I sell to a private party that I don't know, I always ask them if they're qualified to purchase the gun and get their address. It takes me off the hook.

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:32:49 PM EDT
kaferhaus.....Thank you for clarifying that.
I knew that Private Gun sales are legal and I was under the impression thats all they were doing at the trade day......Private sales.
What you said makes sense.......and I'm sure it was a sting that took a while to execute and gather proof.....

Thanks,
GhostCat
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