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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:53:22 AM EDT
Does anyone know if this rifle requires the 7-Day wait?

AR-15 A4 Varmint Config with the ~1" bull barrel (18") with A2 buttstock.

Or does it fall under the same category as a Colt Sporter HBAR that doesn't require the wait?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:19:25 AM EDT
Believe its an H-BAR so its cash & carry.

But it would depend on the gunstore; some think it is, others do not. They will all swear up & down that their interpretation is right.

None can point to a prosecution or court case for mis-classifying a rifle.

The state police will process papers on whatever you send them - it could be a single barrel break open shotgun & they will process pistol papers on it; so that gives us NO information at all.

Don't expect a clear answer on this one.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:46:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:57:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BBQMAN:
If it has HBAR on the receiver you're good otherwise you have an 7 (+1) day wait.



...or the barell. I believe the the minimun diameter of the barrell has to be .71 inches for it to be considered a "H-BAR". I'm not sure of the exact measurement, but it is .7 something inches.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:42:10 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm going to call the State Police tomorrow.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:42:48 AM EDT
Follow up:

When I talked to the MSP today, they informed me that HBAR has to be stamped on the firearm. I verified if it needs to be stamped on the reciever or the barrel and they said that either would be acceptable.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:14:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:48:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 8:49:22 AM EDT by eshell]

Originally Posted By BBQMAN:

Originally Posted By Glockabilly:
Follow up:

When I talked to the MSP today, they informed me that HBAR has to be stamped on the firearm. I verified if it needs to be stamped on the reciever or the barrel and they said that either would be acceptable.



Really? So, an upper witha heavy barrel can make the gun an HBAR gun? That just doesn't seem right, even though that's what they said. I always thought the lower/receiver determined the gun not the other way around.



Just one more example of how stupid and convoluted this business of infringing on the second amendment really is.

W/O looking up the actual text to quote, the law basically exempts the Colt "HBAR" heavy barreled models **only** from the restricted weapons list, identifying them by the receiver marks. Due to trademark/copyright/whining rights, Colt is the only one with the receiver so marked, even though they don't have the monopoly on heavy barrelled ("target") guns.

To follow the "letter of the law", it DOES have to be marked on the receiver, however. MSP has demonstrated that they understand the situation well enough to accept the barrel marks as complying with the "spirit of the law".

It has been rumored that the MSP "will accept" barrel markings, since the barrel is what they are trying to ensure is "heavy" anyway, and thus the response that Glockabilly got.

There is nothing in the law to prevent the acquisition on a HBAR lower receiver as an unrestricted long gun, then swapping uppers. As long as it says "HBAR" the letter of the law is satisfied.

Cool, huh?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:13:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 10:24:04 AM EDT by Glockabilly]
I find the whole thing fuzzy. If you have a bull barrel but it doesn't have HBAR stamped on it (and the receiver is not marked wither) then it doesn't meet the requirements according to what they said. Maybe I need to call them back.

Edit: I just called them back, a varmint type barrel will not meet the requirement unless it has HBAR stamped on it. hough
Basically, like Eshell said, it needs to just say "HBAR" somewhere.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:46:03 AM EDT
I really don't think that anyone at the MSP are experts on any of this. Does this mean that the varmint upper I bought from Model1Sales, that was delivered to my door, is not MD compliant because it is not marked HBAR and I didn't suffer through the 8 day wait? Are dealers breaking MD law by shipping us uppers? Better get my 20" now.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:52:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BrianB2:
I really don't think that anyone at the MSP are experts on any of this. Does this mean that the varmint upper I bought from Model1Sales, that was delivered to my door, is not MD compliant because it is not marked HBAR and I didn't suffer through the 8 day wait? Are dealers breaking MD law by shipping us uppers? Better get my 20" now.



Wait only refers to complete guns.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:14:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Slimjim:

Originally Posted By BrianB2:
I really don't think that anyone at the MSP are experts on any of this. Does this mean that the varmint upper I bought from Model1Sales, that was delivered to my door, is not MD compliant because it is not marked HBAR and I didn't suffer through the 8 day wait? Are dealers breaking MD law by shipping us uppers? Better get my 20" now.



Wait only refers to complete gunsthe lower receiver.


There ya go, fixed this for you

BrianB2, there is no "possession problem" with "evil features", or the modification of an existing firearm, only the "transfer" of a non-HBAR marked complete gun or lower receiver, because the lower receiver is the "restricted" item. Your replacement/spare uppers only have to have a barrel length to exceed 16". Buying/receiving/using replacement uppers with light barrels, flash suppressors or bayo lugs is perfectly legal.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:09:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Glockabilly:
I find the whole thing fuzzy. If you have a bull barrel but it doesn't have HBAR stamped on it (and the receiver is not marked wither) then it doesn't meet the requirements according to what they said. Maybe I need to call them back.

Edit: I just called them back, a varmint type barrel will not meet the requirement unless it has HBAR stamped on it. even though it is almost ~1" diameter.

Basically, like Eshell said, it needs to just say "HBAR" somewhere.




Anyone notice above, where I wrote in my post:

"Don't expect a clear answer on this one. " ??
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:35:50 PM EDT
Most dealers are simply going by barrel contour to determine whether the gun is a heavy barrel or not. HBAR is meant as a description in this case not a trademark. MSP only knows what guns dealers send them as listed on their long forms. Bull Barrel is larger than an HBAR and out the door it goes with a NICS check.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:30:11 PM EDT
In July of last year when I ordered my 20" HBAR Bushmaster, my dealer gave me a 10-day wait. Back then though I knew little of the weapon or the laws so I thought that the 10-day wait was mandatory on all "assault weapons" and handguns.

In my case, it turns out that I shouldn't have had to wait and they also slapped 3 extra days on.

Probably just depends on the dealer you get.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 12:51:19 PM EDT
"Probably just depends on the dealer you get."

Yep - and each one will swear up and down that THEY are right.

None will have clear evidence. Just their own opinions. And we all know about opinions.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:45:08 PM EDT
When I worked for Bart's in Glen Burnie, I spoke with the state police several time on the HBAR issue.
The way the law is written is that the lower receiver has to be marked HBAR.
They stated to me that if the barrel is marked it is OK to transfer it as a long gun (Bushmaster has been marking their barrels for years).
When I asked to get that in writing they would not sent me anything.

As for the 7 day wait, we told the customers that it takes 2 weeks for it to clear.
This was to cover us not faxing every day.
There were some days we didn't have time to go to the bathroom let alone fax the papers out.


For those that know me - Yes I'm still alive and well in the FREE STATE OF PA.
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