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Posted: 1/27/2006 7:00:03 AM EDT
I know the lower is registered as "regulated", but after that, how would the law treat someone with a .22 upper on an AR15 lower (say, in their vehicle). I'd like to do some plinking with a .22 upper and would like it to be treated as just a .22 rifle. My guess is that it's technically considered a "regulated" firearm, but no cop would consider it that (especially if there's no .223 upper in the vehicle). I should be hearing back any day about my collector letter, that would make this a moot point, right? Doesn't the letter allow transportation options not allowed by someone without one? Thanks for any help.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:52:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 7:53:17 AM EDT by Forest]

Originally Posted By squeky:
My guess is that it's technically considered a "regulated" firearm, but no cop would consider it


1) yes it is (as it's receiver is interchangle with 5.56 receivers)

2) I wouldn't bet on it, especially in this state for two reasones. The law says it's a regulated weapon, and it looks like it would be an 'evil baby killing assault death launcher' which would be regulated.

Get a copy of the AW pamphlet that the State Police puts out, it has the law listed and you will see that it covers firearms with identical receivers.


Doesn't the letter allow transportation options not allowed by someone without one?

Not to my knowledge. The only transportation options you can 'gain' come from a CCW (yeah right - good luck) or having a hunting license and it's in season (you get to add going to/from hunting lands).
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:08:09 AM EDT
Ok, thanks for the reply.

I think my next question would be--what is the difference between a HBAR AR and every other AR? Lower receiver the same or not? I have the big ATF law book from my C&R license, I have about 20 pieces of paper to carry around with me whenever I carry a firearm. Everything to the AWB ban expiring (LEO marked mags), my C&R, soon to be collector letter, and all MD regulations. Just so they know that *I* know the law (well, I have the law documented clear as mud).
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:35:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By squeky:
think my next question would be--what is the difference between a HBAR AR and every other AR? Lower receiver the same or not?


That opens up a can of worms (again get the pamphlet to follow this). The law regulates ALL Ar-15 type rifles - however there is a clause which specify's an exemption for Colt HBARS and Eagle Arms HBARs. The state police currently say that any factory AR with a barrel marked HBAR can be SOLD as a standard rifle (they put them in the exemption clause).

Two issues with this. First is the law was very specific about what gets exempted (down to the name brand) just because the current state police allow this don't expect it to continue indefinately. Second issues is that pertains to how the rifle is sold - most cops don't know this part as it's not a normal part of their job. So anything that LOOKS regulated will be treated as such unless you are really lucky enough to find a gun-nut cop that knows the laws. In any event I'll bet your going to have a hard time finding a factory .22LR AR that has a barrel stamped HBAR...


Just so they know that *I* know the law (well, I have the law documented clear as mud).

Just remember it's not the cop's job to judge the law - they may still bring you in and let the Judge/Prosecuter decide, just to be safe you understand.

But in any event is there a Maryland law that allows a person to keep/transport a .22LR Rifle in their vehicle? I am not aware that is allowed, if you know of an exemption please let us in on it (with a cite to the regulation/legal code) thanks!
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:04:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
That opens up a can of worms (again get the pamphlet to follow this). The law regulates ALL Ar-15 type rifles - however there is a clause which specify's an exemption for Colt HBARS and Eagle Arms HBARs. The state police currently say that any factory AR with a barrel marked HBAR can be SOLD as a standard rifle (they put them in the exemption clause).



Interesting. I see that the exception is a "Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle". I come from AK land, so the idea of changing out the upper to whatever is easy to understand, the legal implications don't seem to be. I'm not trying to argue the .22 upper into a non-regulated weapon, it's just interesting discuss at this point.


Just remember it's not the cop's job to judge the law - they may still bring you in and let the Judge/Prosecuter decide, just to be safe you understand.

But in any event is there a Maryland law that allows a person to keep/transport a .22LR Rifle in their vehicle? I am not aware that is allowed, if you know of an exemption please let us in on it (with a cite to the regulation/legal code) thanks!



Indeed, I realize the difference between the MSP and judges. I certainly don't want to break any laws, but it seems with these damn things, obeying the laws is judged by many as breaking it. "AKs are automatic!" comes to mind.

I don't carry around weapons in my vehicle except to the range, so I just wanted to preface with that. But, as far as carrying them (non regulated), I was under the impression it's legal to keep an unloaded .22/rifle/shotgun in your vehicle. Here are some quotes from Subtitle 2 of the MD ATF book:

4-201(b)(3) - The carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business....
4-201(b)(4) - The wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal practice, sport shooting event, hunting.....on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or enclosed holster.
4-201(b)(5) - The moving by a bona fide gun collector of part of all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or enclosed holster.

Pretty clear laws. Take your handgun (regulated firearm) to the range or shop only (**unless you have a collector letter). I could find nothing (outside some city ordnances) about transporting rifles. If anyone knows of any, I'd like to know. (b)(5) also means that a collector letter does give much more flexibility in transporting firearms.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:23:14 AM EDT
Squeky,
Also check the DNR regulations (particularly relating to hunting). IIRC there are regs in there that pertian to carrying a rifle/shotgun around in your vehicle when it's not hunting season (you may be assumed to be a poacher).

-Forest
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:39:12 AM EDT

Interesting. I see that the exception is a "Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle". I come from AK land, so the idea of changing out the upper to whatever is easy to understand, the legal implications don't seem to be. I'm not trying to argue the .22 upper into a non-regulated weapon, it's just interesting discuss at this point.

Squeky, the "legal" reason the "Colt" is specifically exempted is because the term "HBAR" is actually roll-marked into the Colt receiver on the factory heavy-barrelled match/target rifles, thus making the complete rifle a heavy barrelled "target rifle". The receiver is always the regulated part, and so this particular regulated part is easily identified as that of a heavy barrelled target rifle, not a light-barrelled (restricted) "assault rifle".

Since Colt owns the trademarked term "HBAR", any other manufacturer can make a heavy barrelled target rifle, but they cannot infringe on Colt and mark their receiver with Colt's HBAR logo . . .

For some reason, however, it IS permissable for other AR15 manufacturers to put "HBAR" on the heavy barrels, and this is where the MSP shows some decent judgement and even though the HBAR marked barrels do not specifically comply with the "letter of the law", they DO comply with the "spirit" and MSP will allow currently transfer w/o the 'restricted' BS. "Currently" means "right this minute" and has no bearing on how this will be enforced in the future.


Regarding the caliber, there is NO difference. Like Forest says, the receiver itself is the regulated part, and can accept uppers of several calibers. .22RF, .223, 7.62x39, 9mm, 6.8G, .50B - just to point out a few . . . A .22 rimfire is still a firearm and still subject to any/all of our stupid, feel-good "restricted firearm" legislation as is applicable.

Look at it this way: If you put a .22 (or any caliber) upper of ANY configuration on an HBAR lower, it remainds 'not restricted', by the same token, if you put a .22 upper of ANY configuration on ANY non-"Colt HBAR" lower receiver, it is STILL a restricted firearm. Clear as chrystal . . .
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:54:17 AM EDT
This is getting very informative, thanks. I'll look into the DNR regs, that's a good point.
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