User Panel
The former CSP commissioner Ruben Bradford interpretation of the law exempted all pre 09/13/94 assault weapons. The current CSP commissioner Schriro has taken a different stance. Her interpretation is based off the original law allowing prebans for transfer with the exception of numerous listed by name firearms. Schiro has the upper hand because a state judge has ruled that she is right. Research the Kaminsky trial. 86 year old Joseph Kaminsky had a preban Uzi, AK-47 and an M-11. None were registered but were preban. Kaminsky's attorneys pointed out the memo from Ruben Bradford dated Oct 2013. Same memo that led all of us to think we were good to purchase all prebans. Attorneys from the CT Attorney Generals office representing Schiro argued against Bradford's interpretation and won. Judge William H. Bright sided with the ultra lib Schiro. Kaminsky did not get his 3 prebans back because he did not register them.
Bradford's letter was a breath of fresh air in our liberal state when it was initially released. Problem is he should never have released it. Law enforcement does not/should not interpret laws. They should only enforce them. Several of us have transferred named prebans through valid FFLs since Bradfords letter. Some FFLs may still be doing so. Either way you are not legally in possession of that firearm according to the Kaminsky decision. If you were caught in possession of it and arrested for having an unregistered assault weapon you would most likely loose in court like Kaminsky. It is possible that the state may grant a grace period for everyone to register the by name prebans they purchased since the Bradford letter. We will have to wait and see. IMO that would be the right thing to do here. Either way if you purchased a banned by name preban since 2013 you are not legally in possession of it. It needs to be registered and obviously you can't do that right now. All other prebans are good to go at this time. |
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"All other prebans are good to go at this time."
Such as what prebans are you talking about? |
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So where do all the "un-named" colt varrients fall in this? (Sporter target, hbar ect.) There have been letters from despp saying these weren't viewed as named prebans. Looks like even if I get this target model transferred to me it's not gonna do me a whole lotta good anyhow...maybe would just be better off selling out of state or to an exempt person and buying an unnamed one...looks like I'm gonna loose out big on this one...
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So where do all the "un-named" colt varrients fall in this? (Sporter target, hbar ect.) There have been letters from despp saying these weren't viewed as named prebans. Looks like even if I get this target model transferred to me it's not gonna do me a whole lotta good anyhow...maybe would just be better off selling out of state or to an exempt person and buying an unnamed one...looks like I'm gonna loose out big on this one... View Quote |
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har1340, refer to CT Statute 53-202a for further details on the list of prebans that are a no go in CT. All others "should" be good to go.
insomniaAR, great question in regards to Colts. The way I see it the only Colts that are a no go are listed in 53-202a Colt AR-15 and Sporter. As you know there are several other models that are preban. Personally I would avoid any of the Colts at this time. Durham68, I agree with you that they will not round up the thousands of named prebans that have been transferred since 2013. Problem is if you are caught with it and get arrested you are not getting it back based off of the Kaminsky case. You could be minding your own business while target shooting with some friends in a remote area. Law enforcement receives a call for gunfire. Happens all the time. LE arrives and runs the firearms and determines its an unregistered named preban. Weapon is seized and you will most likely be arrested. |
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"Sufferin' succotash!" What is different between this thread and all the other "my ffl told me pre-bans are not to be transferred" threads? Com'on! I dare ya to tell me what is different. View Quote All the other threads have failed to specify which FFL was making the claim that DESPP was changing their interpretation of the law. |
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har1340, refer to CT Statute 53-202a for further details on the list of prebans that are a no go in CT. All others "should" be good to go. insomniaAR, great question in regards to Colts. The way I see it the only Colts that are a no go are listed in 53-202a Colt AR-15 and Sporter. As you know there are several other models that are preban. Personally I would avoid any of the Colts at this time. Durham68, I agree with you that they will not round up the thousands of named prebans that have been transferred since 2013. Problem is if you are caught with it and get arrested you are not getting it back based off of the Kaminsky case. You could be minding your own business while target shooting with some friends in a remote area. Law enforcement receives a call for gunfire. Happens all the time. LE arrives and runs the firearms and determines its an unregistered named preban. Weapon is seized and you will most likely be arrested. View Quote |
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"har1340, refer to CT Statute 53-202a for further details on the list of prebans that are a no go in CT. All others "should" be good to go. "
All others, like which others? I just don't understand how this year and last year, two different FFL's transferred me an HK 91 and an HK SP89, sent the form(s) to the State, an no one has kicked the dog yet. |
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The solution to all this is for Ginsberg to drop dead. Then we can have our case heard by the Supreme Court.
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I really hope it's just someone trolling FFL's as CSP trying to get a rise out of people !!!
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Durham68, I agree with you that the Bradford letter would serve as an affirmative defense. You may not be convicted of possession of an unregistered assault weapon but you will be arrested if caught with it. Even if not convicted there is no way they are going to give you the firearm back if it is an unregistered banned by name assault weapon listed in 53-202a.
har1340, All others are any preban firearms not listed by exact name under 53-202a. Example would be a PWA Commando, Essential Arms J-15, etc. There have probably been thousands of transfers of banned by name prebans since 2013 due to Bradford's letter. I have no idea what the state plans on doing with this. The right thing would be to offer everyone a grace period to register the weapons. Everyone that sold and purchased these firearms did so in good faith based off of Bradford's letter. |
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USSC will not take a 2A case until 2 justices are replaced, not 1. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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probably another troll trying to raise prices again.
unless this is fake, there would be definite sources. other than that, call the state yourself and ask, thats all you can do. |
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I was in one shop recently and they were told to stop transferring ALL firearms!
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The Bradford letter would serve as an affirmative defense in a criminal trial over a named Preban. It didn’t help Kaminsky because his was a civil trial. View Quote |
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I am a 01/03 FFL and this is the response I received from the SLFU a few weeks ago when I asked for clarification of any changes in policy regarding the transfer of firearms legally manufactured prior to 9/13/1994:
"Sir, Please refer to the recent judicial ruling in CT which also references “pre-ban” assault weapons in CT for guidance in answering your question. I hope this helps. Sincerely, SGT. Bill Kelly" |
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I am a licensed FFL and this is the response I received from the SLFU a few weeks ago when I asked for clarification of any changes in policy regarding the transfer of firearms legally manufactured prior to 9/13/1994: "Sir, Please refer to the recent judicial ruling in CT which also references “pre-ban” assault weapons in CT for guidance in answering your question. I hope this helps. Sincerely, SGT. Bill Kelly" View Quote |
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Silly Durham... the Bradford letter isn't a defense... Bradford was the Commissioner of the State Police. The police enforce the law, they do not interpret the law. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Bradford letter would serve as an affirmative defense in a criminal trial over a named Preban. It didn’t help Kaminsky because his was a civil trial. |
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I'm no lawyer but I don't see that the state (if they are putting a end to the sale of named prebans) will have any recourse but to reopen the books to those who have bought them since the transfers of pre bans in CT started due to the fact that the state has given people with named pre bans A.W. certs so they can file with ATF for SBR's and what have you. Therefore with equal protection under the law what legal ground do they have to tale others from them?
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I would save a copy of the opinion letter and a copy of the court decision. If you have a pre-ban on the banned by name list and it was transferred in the window between the opinion letter and the court decision, this would be your only legal leg to stand on.
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I'm no lawyer but I don't see that the state (if they are putting a end to the sale of named prebans) will have any recourse but to reopen the books to those who have bought them since the transfers of pre bans in CT started due to the fact that the state has given people with named pre bans A.W. certs so they can file with ATF for SBR's and what have you. View Quote No matter what they do, currently one will most likely have the gun confiscated and not returned even if they successfully can argue in a criminal case that the effect of ignorance or mistake statute applies (in the criminal case). Considering the mental/legal gymnastics some judges use to ban guns/uphold clearly unconstitutional laws restricting 2nd Amendment/Sec I part 15, I wouldn't want to be the test case over this issue. I could easily see a judge ignoring the effect of ignorance or mistake statute. |
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So what options does someone have to sell there named stuff? Guessing out of state or to the exempt class.
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The subject line says: "State police calling all ffl's about certain prebans"
As of today, Monday 10/16/17 3:30pm, there are many FFLs who say they have not heard anything by voice or mail from the state. I continue to be the Easter bunny. |
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Reporting back.
My FFL wont transfer anything specifically on the list, confirmed this morning. He is of the view that the Sporter Match HBAR (what I got) is different than the bare Sporter. My FFL is Fairfield County Firearms. |
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Should I have an HK 93 shipped to my FFL? View Quote pros- 1. i have always liked them. 2. will hold its value if not beaten to death 3. ultra cool cons- 1. spendy, 2. spendy accessories 3. $100+ for original hk mags/ neutering them would be something I would not even consider 4. Heavy and outdated rifle concept In the end- I decided it was not worth the price |
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I kicked that idea around for quite some time pros- 1. i have always liked them. 2. will hold its value if not beaten to death 3. ultra cool cons- 1. spendy, 2. spendy accessories 3. $100+ for original hk mags/ neutering them would be something I would not even consider 4. Heavy and outdated rifle concept In the end- I decided it was not worth the price View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Should I have an HK 93 shipped to my FFL? pros- 1. i have always liked them. 2. will hold its value if not beaten to death 3. ultra cool cons- 1. spendy, 2. spendy accessories 3. $100+ for original hk mags/ neutering them would be something I would not even consider 4. Heavy and outdated rifle concept In the end- I decided it was not worth the price Caliber convertible sear host Mags not an issue I trust you'd never link belts together at more than 10 rounds at a time. |
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HK23e Caliber convertible sear host Mags not an issue I trust you'd never link belts together at more than 10 rounds at a time. View Quote hk91-2k MM upper conversion to beltfed- 10-12k I have better things to do with + 40k I have shot one and it was cool as fuck but ..........it is not ever going to happen. I do kick around the M60 idea every now and then but again- it just isnt going to ever happen |
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What’s everybody’s opinion of Selling/ marketing a LNIB Preban Colt Sporter Lightweight 7.62x39 in the middle of this?
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sear- 30-35k, maybe less but not much less. hk91-2k MM upper conversion to beltfed- 10-12k I have better things to do with + 40k I have shot one and it was cool as fuck but ..........it is not ever going to happen. I do kick around the M60 idea every now and then but again- it just isnt going to ever happen View Quote M16 is only realistic option for those of us that registered mags. I cant imagine too many people registered MP5 mags....I wish I had. |
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What’s everybody’s opinion of Selling/ marketing a LNIB Preban Colt Sporter Lightweight 7.62x39 in the middle of this? View Quote |
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Continue as normal until the state actually puts something in writing for the non-exempt class. Any other behavior is purely conjecture. View Quote Rome |
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Sorry, but anyone who didn't see this coming wasn't paying attention.
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