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Posted: 4/9/2006 10:05:54 AM EDT
Rant on!!!!!

Went down to the south canadain this morning to do some shooting on a local guys place been shooting at for almost 2 years. got his permission to use his place to cross since they finally put up the baracaids down under the bridge on hwy 4. ''the last place that i knew of you could drive under a state bridge and onto the river.'' now you pretty much have to have private land to get on or your screwed. He never minded and was always really nice to me took him deer jerky every year after season to show my thanks for letting me go down there. It was always quiet no one around for miles and a beautiful place to take the wife and kids to picnic. and walk down the river in the summer months great hunting and wildlife first real deer my kids had ever seen was there early one morning on a walk.

The place was within 10 miles of the house needless to say perfect for me. So i load up this morning and head down there bout 5.30 am as i am pulling into the gate I see tom the landowner coming down the lease road. so I stop and wait for him of course hadnt seen him in a while he pulls up and has an odd look on his face. and says he isnt gonna let anyone else use his pasture to get down to the river cause people have been busting his locks off his gates leaving trash and mudding and making ruts in his grass for his cattle. he was pretty pissed i could see it on his face. I for one do not Blame him a bit he said i know its not you but a few bad apples ruin it for everyone i guess. He has seen me sack my trash out of there plenty of times and more than i take in comes out . man i was really frusterated with people and thier lack of respect for people and thier property its not just on his place but what floats down the river trash wise. stuff is all over the place i dont know if they had a big party up river from him but there was stuff every where.

So i offerd to mount up a game camers with a good view of his gates to track who was going in and out its a pretty isolated place no one has any buisness in there except for a few people. and to pick up all the trash laying around he said you would really do that I said you bet to have a place like this i enjoy it is well worth it. also told him to put a sign on the gate no tresspassing without written permission. I would enforce it with a vengance if i caught anyone in there so he agreed to let me keep using his place i was needless to say happy at that point. but 4 hours later and damn near a full pickup ''Long wheelbase'' bed of trash I wasnt to happy. Lost most of my morning to other peoples B.S i dont understand why people cant just pick up thier own trash !!!!!!!

Rant off


So Please BITCHSLAP the next fuctard you see littering and make the world a better place thx....Stevehippie.gif
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:17:33 AM EDT
Whats the nearest town?

You can still access from the STHW 99 bridge, for now. Since the kiling and all in 2004, things have really cooled down,not near as many people drop in there to ride.

One of the guys that lived right there, ran a truck load of collage kids off the road one night after a fight, killle done of them and made a cripple out of another.


I drop in at a buddy place now.

Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:51:42 AM EDT
I live closer to bridgecreek than tuttle but not far from state hwy 4 south of Mustang. thats where i was getting down on the river talk about a trashed out place. but had a good flat to get on the river in a truck that doesnt have a lift kit on it didnt hear about that accident you were talking about but i thought it was now pretty much illegal to drive under state briges anyway. thats why i went to the lengths i did for private access...Steve
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 12:17:53 PM EDT
You can shoot down by the river? I live in Mustang, and have a friend that lives off of 119th between SH92 and Czech Hall Rd, right be the river. I just figured other people around meant that was a no-no.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 1:16:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 1:21:59 PM EDT by 26RED26]

Originally Posted By gardman007:
You can shoot down by the river? I live in Mustang, and have a friend that lives off of 119th between SH92 and Czech Hall Rd, right be the river. I just figured other people around meant that was a no-no.




Dont know about the legality of actually shooting on the river its self . I never have i use a place that backs up to the river not actually using the river as a shooting lane seems kinda dangerous to me. So many bends and tall grass unless you get a good strech for clear line of fire or sand bank for backing. You wont catch me putting rounds down range where i cant see them go you just might be putting lead through someones picnic or kid walking the river bed So not a good idea IMHO also to add he is in city limits ''I am not'' to boot off 119th Czech hall rd so big no no far as i am concerned.....Steve
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 2:13:22 PM EDT
I used to off road, 4 wheel, shoot, party, fight, fuck and fart on the river, right at the end of lindsey street in norman, then they built a wal mart, home depot and malls and shit in there, plus the city went off and made the street loop on around to 36th, hell when the river was up and flooded everything down through the bottom, it'd trap big cat fish and carp, and when the water started evaporating, we'd shoot them and this laotian dude that ran around with us and his family would wade out and get them,

that was back when you could still have fun in norman and the cops didn't fuck with you unless you were causing trouble, its way different nowdays, hell we got stuck down there once and carried our guns and stuff with us up west main about 7pm in the evening to the trailer park where this dude lived that had a 4x that could pull us out, everybody that drove by saw us, but nobody called the cops or nothing,

bet if we done that now, they'd call the cops and have them take our guns and lock us up, not all cops in norman are assholes though, theres still a few thats pretty cool, their just few and far between anymore.,

its a shame your spot got trashed out man, the owner where we used to go PD shooting in the panhandle don't let anyone shoot up there anymore for free, some fuckers shot some of his cattle, he wanted a 1k a piece for the lease, told us he knew we didn't shoot his cows but he just couldn't afford the loss,

hadn't been back since, I can't afford to have to pay for a place to hunt or shoot, I got land I can hunt on, it just don't have PDs on it.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:18:03 PM EDT
There is a place up on the Cimarron where the river washed out the only bridge between Hwy 74 and Hwy 81. It's a great place to shoot and fart around. But people pulling up, dumping old refrigerators, furntiure... all types of trash is going to get it blocked off. Already the county sheriffs think it is a easy place to pick up drunk kids.
I remember - like Ndenway does - when many places on different rivers was open to fish and even camp on. I can remember a lot of nights as a small child spent on the Canadian or Cimarron fishing and cooking hot dogs over a small fire. That was the only type of entertainment my family could afford.
Doing that now is a thing of the past!
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:28:16 PM EDT
wake up call..

i'm pretty sure..he has to allow some sort of access to public land..

we have a farm back home, backed up to the S.C and have always allowed one area for people walk in access to the river.we did this to keep legal issues..from biting us on the butt.

you dont have to allow them to drive on you..but you have to allow someone passage i think.

access to public lands..isnt something that we should take lightly.. we paid for it..think about it..if access rights werent set in stone..there would minimal use of the public areas.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 1:13:17 PM EDT
Muddy if that were true then why did the state rope damn near every bridge in the state that most people used for access. Damn terriorist have more important shit to do than blow up the tuttle mustang bridge well maybe not who knows. but i dont think he has to provide anyone with access across a mile of his owned property.'' not off a county road'' to public land. and are the rivers in oklahoma public land or just state ownd property. i really dont know never had to ask or be told i could be wrong but if you find something out that i dont know post up. thx....Steve
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 3:24:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 26RED26:
Muddy if that were true then why did the state rope damn near every bridge in the state that most people used for access. Damn terriorist have more important shit to do than blow up the tuttle mustang bridge well maybe not who knows. but i dont think he has to provide anyone with access across a mile of his owned property.'' not off a county road'' to public land. and are the rivers in oklahoma public land or just state ownd property. i really dont know never had to ask or be told i could be wrong but if you find something out that i dont know post up. thx....Steve





Some people say that the South Canadian is private land, that the landowners on each side own out to the middle of the channel.

Others say that the South Canadian river is a navagable waterway, therefore open for all.

Still others say that the South Canadian river is state owned, and only the state can keep you off of it.

You will not find answere.

I ride on the South Canadian, I drop in off of private property that adjoins the river, and when we ride, we stay within the river bed., The only time you have trouble is if someone gets off of the river bed and crosses a fence into someones place, which we dont do.



Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:38:04 PM EDT
1shott i have heard put all three ways to but never had anyone approach me on it while on the river but do my best not to act a fool or tresspas onto other peoples property. if approached would probally just move along there are miles and miles of sand for the riding. aint worth arguing about to me but thats why i try to keep it friendly with my access landowner so no problems......Steve
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:47:50 PM EDT
Egress to and from is NOT trespassing. If public access is NOT available to a river. within a reasonable distance, then you can cut across people's property, whether they like it or not.
They own land to the center of the river WHEN purchased, but the river may change and the boundaries DO NOT.
I know a gentleman on the Cimarron that lost 60 acres of 200+ acres. It took him several years in court to prevail to access the property on the other side of the river but he finally won.
Navigable, smaviagable, my ass! Property owners CANNOT change the flow of the river nor do they own the water that flows down the river. All creeks and rivers in Oklahoma that you can float a boat on are legally accessible by any citizen. Unless the water stops and starts in its entire pathway on one contiguous piece of property!
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:14:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 8:18:04 PM EDT by muddydog]
bingo..danc 46..

the S. C. is a navigable waterway...
i boat it..many times a year..( when shooting the shit outta ducks).

we dont own..anything past the green fence..thats ACOE land my friends. once you hit the green fence..that land is yours to enjoy..

i stand by my free use...
you can stand in most all rivers and creeks..and do what ever you want..but dont get outta the water.

BTDT..
used it many times to get somewhere...hunting and fishing..
and expect the same treatment on our land for others..

after fully consulting ACOE/lawyers/OWDC employees.

a private landowner..cannot deny access...from walk in John Q Publik...to a federal or state land.
i said..walk in..
not drive your fully loaded excursion..across a peanut field or alfalfa field.

without these rules in place..
90% of publik land is useless..

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:09:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 1:17:29 PM EDT by 26RED26]
Thanks For the info guys guess you learn something new everyday. My post was more so a bitch about those people who do not walk in. but drive thier fully loaded excursions across a guys place throw trash out on another persons property and in the river for other people to pick up. I for one feel lucky I have a place to drive into and dont have to lug all my stuff down on foot to enjoy the S.C. I guess the fed and state felt like the terrorist were to lazy to walk in under the state and fed bridges and plant thier bombs. So they roped off most not all of the states bridges on the rivers.

basically denying easier access to most people who dont wanna deal with the john wayne cattle farmers of the State. Who no matter if you showed them the law in writeing would be assholes and tell you it was bullshit and you were still tresspassing or trying to steal thier cattle on a dirt bike or some other crazy idea of why you should not be on thier land. Thank god i have never had to go thru any of that but know people who have. more of a headache than i am willing to deal with but i guess you do what you gotta do when you wanna ride.....Steve
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:36:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danc46:
Egress to and from is NOT trespassing. If public access is NOT available to a river. within a reasonable distance, then you can cut across people's property, whether they like it or not.
They own land to the center of the river WHEN purchased, but the river may change and the boundaries DO NOT.
I know a gentleman on the Cimarron that lost 60 acres of 200+ acres. It took him several years in court to prevail to access the property on the other side of the river but he finally won.
Navigable, smaviagable, my ass! Property owners CANNOT change the flow of the river nor do they own the water that flows down the river. All creeks and rivers in Oklahoma that you can float a boat on are legally accessible by any citizen. Unless the water stops and starts in its entire pathway on one contiguous piece of property!



While i agree with you dan cause that's the same way it's been explained to me........ beleive me you can get into shit on the east side of the damn (red river) ... i try my best to go around when i can cause it's a damn fine way to get into a fistfight or worse real fast btdt .......

This whole blocking of the briges thing sucks ass ...... half the roads in the state arent fit to drive on ....... so lets block the bridges so no one can have fun
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:54:22 PM EDT
26Red, I've had a "John Wayne" cattle farmer crawl all over my ass for going to the river across his property on Hwy 74. The first time he got nasty I said "OK, I'll go someplace else.". When he continued to open his f*cking mouth about slob city boys, I invited him out of his pickup. He had his two sons with him. I actually stepped up to his truck window telling him that a smart mouth would get his ass whipped really fast. He rolled the window up and locked his door.
A few weeks later I found out he was only leasing the land and just picked on OKC tagged vehicles. Nowadays, 25 years later, he never fails to say hello and shoot the breeze. He's married to a second cousin!
I've told people to leave land that belonged in my family or on land I hunted. I always write their tag number and get their name and address before I let them leave. I'm nice and civil, even when they get a bit testy.
Once in Thomas, OK we were fishing on a friend's lake. Some guys came up and told us we were trespassing and we had better leave or they would whip our asses. When the owner's son asked who owned the land, they told him his father's name. He then showed them his driver's license with JH, Jr. on the license. About that time I pulled a pistol out of the vehicle and started shooting at turtles. No threats were made or even nasty comments on our part - I left that to JR. We left after their hasty departure and went to file trespass charges on them, using their description and tag number.
Trespassers and land owners both have a lot of gall and become real ASSHOLES when they think they can get away with it.
Who wants a damn hassle when you go hunting or fishing? I go to enjoy myself and not take OR GIVE anyone BS over their outdoor activiities UNLESS they are screwing things up, like leaving trash or tearing the land up.
I caught some kids piling up limbs and wood for a bonfire and night time beer bust on my cousin's place. I asked them what the hell they were doing! One of them stepped up and said his grandpa was leasing the place ( a lie!) and that they had permission to party there. I ran them off and went to visit his grandpa. The SOB has about 1200 acres of his own, and leases quite a bit more. My cousin threw him off the place for non-payment. I guarentee if I stepped on his property to hunt he'd have me locked up - all of this before he told his grandson to party on someone else's land.
His wife opened her mouth and said she didn't see any problem with the SOB telling the kid's to party on someone else's land. I hate to say this, but that SOB is typical of the type people in Logan County! And across the state!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:11:34 PM EDT
Yes Dan, landowners can be a pain in the ass, BUT at times, I really dont blame them.

People do destroy fences and such. Heck there is a guy who owns some land down here, that joins the S.C. He was doing alot of dirt work and left his dozer on his place, well some guys wanted to make jumps on the river bed, and went onto his place and took his dozer into the river, and played around on it, then left it down there.

The guy got his dozer back up on his place and then pushed everything in along the bank, forming a giant brush/tree pile wall.

Dont really blame the guy.


But on the other hand, getting a place to hunt and fish is harder every year, people locking up the land and not letting any hunting or fishing at all, then they bitch when the hit a deer on the highway, but wont let us in the hunt to keep the herd down.

Times have changed, and only for the worse.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:30:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1shott:
Yes Dan, landowners can be a pain in the ass, BUT at times, I really dont blame them.

......

Times have changed, and only for the worse.


Yes, they have changed. I've seen landowners like the SOB I mentioned above be real assholes about hunting on land they LEASE, not own. And won't hesitate to cross anyone's fences to hunt themselves.
When my son was just 12 yo he came charging up on us, screaming about us killing his quail on MY AUNT's property, not his. I calmed him down, told him who we were, and that we would only take a few birds. He was pissed! The next month when we went, there was NOT ONE quail on the place where there had been at least 4 to 5 coveys ever since I was a child. The SOB had gone in there and hunted down EVERY LAST BIRD! I kept civil to him, even when he had told his grandson to party on someone else's land.
When he tried to run my son off as a grown man on that same land, we had words. I told the OLD SOB if he ever opened his mouth about us hunting ANYWHERE in Logan County, I would whip his ASS! He was just trying to keep someone from hunting where he intended to hunt - again not his property or land he did not lease.
No I don't blame a land owner for protecting his property. But there is a difference between protecting, abusing, and being downright shitty.
I've got pictures of a kid trespassing on my property during deer season. I'm not going to say anything about a 16 or 17 yo kid deer hunting. But if I find two or three or even one grown men hunting when they know they are not supposed to be there, I'll press charges. They aren't putting up the feeders or corn. I haven't had a feeder stolen yet, but it's going to happen I know!
Other than the goofy bitch next to me, I get along great with all of my neighbors. The one boy that was trespassing has 320 acres to hunt - they don't want me hunting that land. Which is OK - if the boy can't kill one on his property, if he kills one on mine, it's OK. The deer don't read the NO TRESPASSING signs. But I also told the boy's dad if one of my feeders comes up missing, I'll be over on his property looking. He got my drift!
A buddy took his friend on my place to hunt. The guy came back the next day by himself and tried to run Matt off when he came to hunt a ladder stand. Matt ran him off and my buddy WON'T EVER get to hunt my property again.
Everything would be OK if there was a mutual RESPECT between people. But there is not because everyone wants the best for themselves and screw everyone else. Sad!
Where oubeta hunts, JH let me take my son down on the river to hunt when he was only 11 or 12.
Because I had my son, the landowner let us hunt for the boy's sake. A GOOD MAN!
It's really sad because that never happens anymore!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:00:40 AM EDT
Dan, we deal with this every year, sometimes its the same guys as the year before, my cousins got some great tree stands outta it though.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:19:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 7:20:52 AM EDT by danc46]

Originally Posted By Ndenway:
Dan, we deal with this every year, sometimes its the same guys as the year before, my cousins got some great tree stands outta it though.


Brother L, I can imagine the problems you have! For a while, we pulled the valve stems out of the tires on vehicles we kept seeing parked where they shouldn't be parked. We put bullet hole decals on windows and a note. "Next time it won't be a decal!" All types of ways to keep trespassers away. Usually asking them to stay away doesn't work.
What I abhor more than anything is the ones driving up and down the roads shooting them off the road, then opening a gate or cutting wire, driving out onto the wheat to get the deer. That REALLY pisses me off!
And it is usually people who live near by who own just as much or more land than the place they trespass on!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:30:12 AM EDT
well some are neighbors, but most come out from the metro area, once our tribal guys get their BIA certification, they'll start confiscating vehicles and firearms that won't be returned, unless they buy them back at auction, that should cut down on our problem tremendously once the word gets around, but the way stuff works with in these things, that won't happen till next year.
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