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Posted: 2/23/2006 2:35:52 PM EDT
So why stay?

Lets see, so far this year, we have lost....

The 25 year anniversary trip, it was a 21 day all expense paid trip, any where I wanted to go, I missed the cut off date by 6 months, BUT through a act of god, all of management some how managed to get in under the cut off date.....

Then today I find out we all hourly employees lose our yearly anniversary bonus, but again an act of god, lets saleried management keep thier bonuses....

Love how companies keep taking incentives and benefits away from the workers, yet demand loyality at the same time.

Dont even get me started on parts needed to maintain the equipment......


After all these years in that place, that company is becoming a pain in the ass to work for. Getting to where they suck the big boar tittie...

Rant off....


Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:18:43 PM EDT
We got a new President last year. He announced a new initiative called "Employees first..." (treat the employee well and they will treat the customer well, etc.).
Then they overhaul the vacation/sick time accrual (everyone loses from one day a year to "LOTS" depends how long you been there - of course the only is for anyone below VP level).
Insurance changed so office visits and co-pays went up.
Then they announced a re-org - we know they are going to layoff people, but they keep dragging it on and leaving everyone hanging.
My director has already hinted that there will not be any promotions and possible no raises this year.

I'm going to ride this one into the ground, but I am polishing my resume this weekend

But hey, "Employees first"
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:18:44 PM EDT
That sucks but what can you do? Youv'e got too much time invested there to start over somewhere else. Benefits at a lot of companies are going south, a lot of them are doing away with their pension plans and all you have is your 401K, my company hasn't done that yet but I bet it's coming. We've already gone to a cash balance retirement plan that sucks. Even if you found something else that looks better there's no garantee it'll be that way in a couple of years. I work for a utility company and it used to be that if you got a job with a utility you had it made as far as job security and benefits but it doesn't work that way anymore!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:50:29 PM EDT
IF you think you don't have much to look forward too, think about all the kids coming out of school lucky to find a job at $8 an hour. The third largest employer and the largest PRIVATE employer in this state (28000) is WalMart where the wages average less than $8 an hour with NO benefits.
1shott, even if you make it too retirement at your job, the chances are your retirement will probably be underfunded. Almost 2/3 of private company retirement funds are.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:57:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danc46:
IF you think you don't have much to look forward too, think about all the kids coming out of school lucky to find a job at $8 an hour. The third largest employer and the largest PRIVATE employer in this state (28000) is WalMart where the wages average less than $8 an hour with NO benefits.
1shott, even if you make it too retirement at your job, the chances are your retirement will probably be underfunded. Almost 2/3 of private company retirement funds are.





Heck I started out at $3.54 an hour, my first check was for Wednesday through Saturday, with Sat. being straight time, I brought home $92, that was in 1984.

We used to have a Profit sharing plan, now we have a 401k plan. But I wonder for how much longer.

I figure they will try something with the vaction time next.



Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:54:40 PM EDT
I just started new job and after seeing how management operates I'm going to be keeping my eyes open for something better. I work in the Cityplex Tower in Tulsa (81st & S. Lewis) which is 60 stories tall. Anyway I walk the stairs everyday during my breaks & lunch hr. Walk at least 25 floors daily.

The only reason I look forward to going to work everyday is to walk the stairs to get my exercise. Thats a pretty damn poor excuse isn't it? Seems like they promise you great benefits to get you there but then due to un-forseen events they make cut backs or freeze wages. You just can't win unless you're a politician or government employee.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:03:15 PM EDT
this is why I choose to live hillbilly cheap....read(well within my means).....
I really don't know off a "good" job anymore..... only jobs that are always in demand...... nothing is guaranteed anymore.....
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:14:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1dreamer:
I just started new job and after seeing how management operates....


I know this is going to set someone off, but management in this country has become atrocious, incompetent, unethical, and totally f*cked up.
From those who win a Noble Prize on the work of their subordninates to Enron executives and Arthur Anderson (the Enron bookkeepers), we are in a world of hurt.
If the minimum wage had gone up like the wages of the Fortune 500 CEOs in the last 30 or so years, the minimum pay per year would be $110,000.
A young man in his early 30s that I know graduated from college 1993. The first thing I told him was welcome to the world of the unemployed. He had actually put himself through college mowing lawns. He took a job with a large company downtown as an accountant. I asked him if he was going to keep his lawn mower business. He actually got pissed and told me he was now a professional. Well, now he is no longer an accountant, but a bartender. And a lot happier than working around the corporate back stabbing. The lack of ethics he had to deal with was the reason he left.
The lack of ethics, the two faced nature of "professionals" in todays business world, is the norm and not the exception. Some are very intelligent and gifted but everything they do is "about them' and screw everbyody else while spouting "It's for the good of the company."
Management needs to wake up and realize "the company" is not just shareholders, the bosses, and the market, but all of the employees - from the janitor to the guy with the fuzzy balls.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:15:21 PM EDT
that shits going on all over in the private buisiness sector, cost of doing buisiness has went up and margins have went down, so its the employees who end up taking the hit, I worked at a company that was owned by 11 retired military captains and cornels(all multi millionares), learned alot about how to fuck the employees from those guys, I was the lowest ranking mgr. in that store, so I got to be the chaufer for these guys when they went to look at a new store to buy, they used to tell me that the trick to doing well in buisiness was to put more money in your own pocket than what you put in your employees pocket, employees were expendible, if they got mad and quit after 6 months or a year, then that was good for the company, you didn't have to eventually give them a raise, and thus you saved in the long run because you got 6months work outta them, now you are able to hire someone else and hope they quit in 6 months ect. ect............

of course this only works for unskilled labor to a certain extent, most companies want to keep their skilled employees around for about 10 years, after that they begin to cost too much in saleries and benifits (retirements, ins., vac, ect.) and bithcing and whinning, it then becomes cheaper to hire and train someone new, that way the company again gets someone who'll do good work and doesn't bitch about everything (apprecative for work) for at least ten years and you can hire them in for a substanial saving, sometimes up to half of what you were paying the old guy you just replaced,

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:22:27 PM EDT
Damn, Ndenway! I've been told I had a dismal outlook!
I'm a f*cking ray of sunshine next to your outlook!!
Geez, I've been one lucky SOB the way I've been blessed in my working career!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:50:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danc46:
Damn, Ndenway! I've been told I had a dismal outlook!
I'm a f*cking ray of sunshine next to your outlook!!
Geez, I've been one lucky SOB the way I've been blessed in my working career!



be glad you don't work for me Dan, when I become Gov. of my tribe, we're going to make money and our holdings are going to become profitible source, not like the family mom and pop way of doing buisiness they proliferate now, it breeds laziness and unproductivity which cost money the tribe can't afford to spend, right now I see first hand how our casino hemoridges money, it shouldn't be that way,.............edited out.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:00:10 PM EDT
i worked in the oil & gas processing equipment business in 84~85 when the bottom fell out, first we lost our vacation/sick days, then we lost our ins., then we had a big meeting where we were told every employee was taking a 10% pay cut, mgt. (this is a small "family" bus.) was taking a 40% cut
later that year the owner moved from nichols hills to quail creek, bought a new car(s) and started shopping for an airplane(he had just got his pilots license)
it was 6 mo. before we got ins. again, a yr before vacation (week lost sick days perm.) and 7 yrs before we got our 10% back
all the time telling us (employees) that it was our fault the Co. couldn't make any profit

in the long run the only person you can trust to have your best interest in mind is you
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:38:54 AM EDT
You guys aren't telling me anything.

I work for Worldcom/MCI/Verizon Business or whatever our name is this year......
I've seen raises and bonuses go away for everyone but salaried managers, and watched our execs fleece the everlovingdogshit outta the company and it's shareholders.

I've been re-org'd, re-aligned, moved, and shifted, while watching my friends and co-workers get "downsized" and RIF'd. I'm now a firm believer in the Peter Principle.

One thing I've noticed during my time here is that Corporate America teaches it's managers to "manage." There are exceptions, but as a group, they know nothing of leadership and Corporate America makes no effort to teach, nuture or encourage leadership skills.



Link Posted: 2/24/2006 12:58:38 PM EDT
organize!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:07:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pipefitter:
organize!



I tell you what they can say what they want about the old unions and organized crime bla bla bla....
but a buddy of mines dad worked at a union lumber yard in long island new york....... his dad passed a couple of years ago his mom still gets 100% of his retirement.... a healthy cost of living increase every year..... and a 1k christmas bonus........

problem is i just don't think their are many unions like that left.....
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:45:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By acman145acp:

Originally Posted By pipefitter:
organize!



I tell you what they can say what they want about the old unions and organized crime bla bla bla....
but a buddy of mines dad worked at a union lumber yard in long island new york....... his dad passed a couple of years ago his mom still gets 100% of his retirement.... a healthy cost of living increase every year..... and a 1k christmas bonus........

problem is i just don't think their are many unions like that left.....




thats no shit, I think my uncle draws $125/ year of service and still gets reduced ins. and services,
I know the uaw almost made it into york in 98', but the dude that had the majority share in UPG( the holding company), called a plant wide meeting and told all employees that if we voted a union in, he would move all his tooling and equipment to one of his already union factories and close the doors on the norman plant, there were enough of the old hands that remembered how they got their jobs, norman had a sister plant in madisonville Kentucky, they voted in a union, the next morning when they came to work the doors were locked, out of 800+ employees and mgt. only 10 got transfered to other plants, of course that was a boon to norman, it created nearly 400 jobs since all of madisonvilles orders came here,

yeah unions were good at one time, my grandfather was in the masons union during the depression on through all his working life, when other people were making $5 bucks a week for a six day week, my grandfather was making $7 bucks a day, he retired in the mid seventies with a really good income for the times,

but now you look at all the auto factories, I have a friend that was working at GM, the only job he ever had(37 years), he topped out in his pay grade $30/hr 5 years before he got bought out, they gave him a shit load to quit at 55 several years back, and he still gets full benifits from them, which I guess is a good thing since their closing now, but he was one man and getting paid that much, now imagine paying 2500 people at least $20/hr, the having to offset the cost of their labor has now priced most of the product they made outta the reach of the average OK. worker, which in turn means less product sold and subsequent closing of a plant putting 2500 people on unemployment,

yeah unions were good at a time and still in some fields of services, but for the most part they've become counter productive for the economy as a whole.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:37:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ndenway:
yeah unions were good at a time and still in some fields of services, but for the most part they've become counter productive for the economy as a whole.



Unions were responsible for the 40 hr week, time and a half on overtime, bringing in health benefits, etc. With their reduction in strength since the 1950s - 40% of the workforce to the current 7% of the workforce, the workers have continued to lose ground in their standard of living.
Right now, the strongest unions are the American Medical Association, the BAR,.... and other professional organizations. They say they are not unions, but BS if they aren't.

Unions have sold themselves down the river because they have failed to keep up with the times. I've seen too many union officials that talked a good story but were empty shirts when it came to action. I've still got a journeyman's ticket in the IBEW - Inside Wireman - and have had for over 30 years.
In another 10 or so years, when the Mexicans have a REALLY large part of skilled trades, they will become more militant and demanding than any union you have ever seen. Then prices will go through the roof for a great number of things.

Right to work is a mistake. How far has the average wage in Oklahoma fallen since it was passed?
All the jobs being brought in are $8 to $9 an hour jobs - not even enough for a single person to live on - it qualifies them of subsidized rent. Do you see something wrong with this picture?
California repealed right to work so they could attract skill trades back into the state.
The AFL-CIO is in deep doo-doo because of poor leadership. And the membership that votes the same jerks back into office.

The day the working poor outnumber the working class is close at hand. We're on our way to many of our citizens living like they are in a 3rd World nation!!!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:06:03 AM EDT
well Dan you can live off of $8 bucks an hour, but your not going to be keeping with the jones's, you gotta settle for a trailer house instead of a real house, drive an older model car that you can afford and stay around the house when all your friends are out running around, but it can be done, there was a time when I was younger that I woulda though I was king if I was making $8 an hour, I don't make much more than that now, and I'm doing alright, its all in how its budgited.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 12:43:15 PM EDT
In this great land we have so many choices. Not happy making minimum wage, get another job or learn a new skill. Being willing to work 50 plus hours a week or do other jobs on the side may be necessary.

I don't even care about the jones but planning for the future should be everyones goal. If you have the toys, do you have the time to enjoy them. Used to work (1978)12hr days making $16. per hr., 6 days a week. You get burned out in a hurry working those kind of hours but thats the price you sometimes must pay. I gave up that profession (subcontract welding) to have better conditions & more time off. Free time means more to me now than the $$.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:54:00 PM EDT
no shit man, I worked 12hr days, 7 days a week for 11 months one year, I used to make bout 50k a year there though, but didn't have any time to spend with my wife and kids, now I make less than half that a year and live fairly decent as long as I don't go ape shit on stuff I don't really need, of course I don't have the wife to take care of anymore, so thats a savings on its own, but I do have a lot of free time, and as long as I stay outta town, I don't run short.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 6:10:57 PM EDT
Brother L, I know people can get by on $8 an hour. But it doesn't give much hope for the kids to attend college and do other things like t-ball, soccer, etc.
The whole point is Brother L, working hard to get ahead isn't working in our society anymore!
I've worked as much as 3000 hrs in one year, made a CHUNK of good money and taxes ate it up!
I've always saved and been fairly lucky with my money. But nowadays, one slip up on $8 an hour, and you won't pay your gas bill, electric bill, etc just so you can have the meney to buy a tire, pay a prescription, etc.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:49:33 AM EDT
nope Dan, hard work don't get most people anywhere but old anymore, take this job I got now, I show up, do just what I'm allowed to do, and get paid and go home, I've worked a hell of a lot harder for a hell of a lot less and dead end jobs just like I have now, as I've got older, I've gotten wiser, I'm out to give ulcers, not get them, anymore a college degrees don't mean shit for the most part, the chick I work with got one, and she right here making less than my 3rd grade educated ass, me negotiations skills are better, when I was offered this job I asked for a hell of a lot more than I ended up at, but I actually got more than I expected,

but hell a jobs a job, if you can find one that'll support your style of life, then you got it made, because in the end man, money don't mean nothing, cause you'll never have as much as you want, ever.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:32:22 AM EDT
I took my last job with the condition I could take off (without pay) for an upcoming Co. trip with the wife. So if they say shit they can kiss my ass, I had other job offers before I took theres. I'm making myself valuable to the comapny so its their loss if I leave. Saying that, I work hard and don't goof off or sleep at the desk like the guy sitting next to me. I had to wake him up several times the other day cause he was on some pain medication. Then he sits there not doing a damn thing just looking at his PC. Much later he tells the boss he is sick & going home. Just happened to be Fri. & he was off this weekend when I had to work 1/2 a day & will work again next Sat.

Sorry for the RANT but everywhere you work "politics come into play" and good people get screwd. It doesn't take long to find the ass kissers who receive special rewards or perks. Rant mode now deactivated.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:36:30 AM EDT
man I was just talking to a gaming commissioner this morning about our lack of customer service and the slackers being hired and how their costing us money, we had 3/4 of the cashiers scheduled call in last night, the wait in line just to cash out tickets or get change was over 35 minutes, a lot of complaint forms were handed out last night, we lost over 300 customers in about 2 hours, woulda been quicker if they coulda cashed out their tickets sooner, I spoke with several very good customers that more than likely will not be back, but mgt. don't want to fire anyone thats tribal, so its on them.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:45:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ndenway:
nope Dan, hard work don't get most people anywhere but old anymore, take this job I got now, I show up, do just what I'm allowed to do, and get paid and go home, I've worked a hell of a lot harder for a hell of a lot less and dead end jobs just like I have now, as I've got older, I've gotten wiser, I'm out to give ulcers, not get them, anymore a college degrees don't mean shit for the most part, the chick I work with got one, and she right here making less than my 3rd grade educated ass, me negotiations skills are better, when I was offered this job I asked for a hell of a lot more than I ended up at, but I actually got more than I expected,

but hell a jobs a job, if you can find one that'll support your style of life, then you got it made, because in the end man, money don't mean nothing, cause you'll never have as much as you want, ever.



Never did worry about money much but I did worry if I was doing a good job. Up to a few years ago I operated on the premise if you worked hard, did the best possible job you could do, you would get ahead. OU and academic bureaucracy cured me of that forever! A 26 yo single mother got fired so a Ed.D could take credit for what she was doing. It was me running the project, giving her directions and the information to do the work, with her taking the credit to get ahead. The cock sucker in the Academic Ivory Tower put her out on the street and took it over when it was about to reach fruition. I left his dumb ass high and dry and the project folded, losing a lot of revenue for OU. It eventually sent his ass down the road too after I left.
Job satisfaction is a lot to me and you are not going to get that anywhere but working for yourself.
I've given my best in most situations for any wage I've ever earned. And now in today's work place, it isn't enough. If you bust your ass doing a dirty job, they'll just give you another dirty job to do and the assholes will sit back and laugh at you. They cut you loose when you can't handle it anymore. It's a sad state of affairs - for $8 an hour they expect you to kill yourself. Most people don't give a shit, they just do what they have to stay afloat. It's damn sad, for the employees and the employers.
Some body will come up with the "team work" theme, then management will show their duplicious nature - 2 or more faces depending on the weather at the time. And they wonder why employees don't swallow their shit!
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