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Posted: 3/19/2006 6:19:23 PM EDT
no longer a dealer?
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 6:35:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 6:39:51 PM EDT
ah, great forum there too. gotta get there more often. any word on what happened here?
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 6:41:01 PM EDT
........
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 6:44:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 7:20:43 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:15:43 PM EDT
THIS thread is a little longer and has a tiny bit more info...
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:14:39 PM EDT
this is a little ridiculous. what the f is going on?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:10:42 PM EDT
who the f is salivar?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:21:45 PM EDT
My guess is that some guy who owns a company that make accessories, and who is known for suing other people or at least threatening to sue other people, is behind this one. . .

It's too bad.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:24:15 PM EDT
read the other threads. I think it's a matter of two people just agreeing to disagree and part ways.

But it looks like it's starting to become a trend that I don't like...
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:25:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
read the other threads. I think it's a matter of two people just agreeing to disagree and part ways.

But it looks like it's starting to become a trend that I don't like...



i have NO idea what you're taling about? Why is everyone shush shush on this? what the f happened?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:31:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
read the other threads. I think it's a matter of two people just agreeing to disagree and part ways.

But it looks like it's starting to become a trend that I don't like...



i have NO idea what you're taling about? Why is everyone shush shush on this? what the f happened?

Probably because Grant has a lot of friend's here? Just a thought.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:34:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
read the other threads. I think it's a matter of two people just agreeing to disagree and part ways.

But it looks like it's starting to become a trend that I don't like...



i have NO idea what you're taling about? Why is everyone shush shush on this? what the f happened?

Probably because Grant has a lot of friend's here? Just a thought.



I'm so lost. Grant is one of THE dealers here. HE got that way by establishing an impeccalbe reputation that would preclude any behavior that would require 'shushing'.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:20:43 PM EDT

Tag

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:26:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I'm so lost. Grant is one of THE dealers here. HE got that way by establishing an impeccalbe reputation that would preclude any behavior that would require 'shushing'.



+1
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:25:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:20:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Grant is still a dealer, just not here on the site. There wasn't any problems betweem his buisness and the members here. Translation, he didn't screw anyone over.



The next GSE or SableCo is still probably an official flavor-of-the-day ARFCOM dealer while an honest, standup dealer is run off because of some top secret back room politics. Pretty much par for the course around here.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:25:28 AM EDT
That's the feeling I'm getting- EXACTLY...

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:45:39 AM EDT
No shit.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:57:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By El_Abogado:
My guess is that some guy who owns a company that make accessories, and who is known for suing other people or at least threatening to sue other people, is behind this one. . .

It's too bad.


That's the information I have. The really sad part is that person *apparently* bullied one of the industry partners here to use their account after that person had been banned from this site.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:59:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
read the other threads. I think it's a matter of two people just agreeing to disagree and part ways.

But it looks like it's starting to become a trend that I don't like...



i have NO idea what you're taling about? Why is everyone shush shush on this? what the f happened?

Probably because Grant has a lot of friend's here? Just a thought.


I didn't always agree with Grant's opinions; however, I have never seen, had or heard about any bad business dealings.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:46:34 AM EDT
Sorry to hiJack but grant is holding a group buy For Trijicon, Eotech, and Aimpoint.

Go here
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:57:44 AM EDT
I didn't check Grant's forum in time, but he wanted me to pass this along in the other thread.


All,

G&R Tactical is sad to say that we are no longer an Industry Partner on ARFCOM. This was not our wish and working with Juan to get things resolved soonest. In the event that we cannot get our account back, I would like to thank all of you for everything that you have done for us. ARFCOM is my home away from home and consider many of you to be personal friends (not customers).

If anyone has any specific questions or need help with anything, please feel free to contact us.

Grant & Roxanne


Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:13:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 3:02:47 AM EDT by DrMark]

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Grant is still a dealer, just not here on the site. There wasn't any problems betweem his buisness and the members here. Translation, he didn't screw anyone over.



Lest anyone here forget that, remeber that his feedback here on arfcom (before the records were purged from the dealer thread) was exemplary.

To me that says more than detractors after the fact saying "He's a meenie." He's not Guns & Ammo magazine - he has an opinion. He trains with the best, and forms an opinion on gear, and sells the stuff he approves of. I expect him to be opinionated; that opinion is one reason I go to him.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:22:51 PM EDT
His feedback was purged?

WTF? I even have feedback...

They needed to drop him down to a member status and try not to totally a$$f*ck him by just deleting and locking everything...

Damn...

Can't wait 'til I get my fill of AR15s and move onto something like the SCAR or other weapons platform.

Who's going to own and run SCAR.com?
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:29:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By El_Abogado:
My guess is that some guy who owns a company that make accessories, and who is known for suing other people or at least threatening to sue other people, is behind this one. . .

It's too bad.


That's the information I have. The really sad part is that person *apparently* bullied one of the industry partners here to use their account after that person had been banned from this site.




That's really too bad and horse shit too. Don't always agree with Grant, but he's honest about who he is and what he believes.

I was on the fence when I renewed my ar15.com account recently. Dealing with non-lawyer asshats over Virginia law recently and constant anti-Colt crap on the GD and elsewhere make this forum ever less interesting. Frankly, I'm spending most of my time and energy on 10-8, where the mods and the owners aren't intimidated by litigious "businessmen" and where they aren't afraid to shut down keyboard commandos. And there's always LF. . . .
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:32:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:05:20 PM EDT


ArfCom just lost one of the best members (and dealers) it's ever had. There's only about four dealers that will actually post outside of the EE with the intent of helping others. Now there's one less.

I just hope there's a damn good reason for one of the most upstanding participants of this site to be tossed out.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 12:35:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 12:49:47 PM EDT by RABIDFOX50]
ARFCOM aint what it use to be folks.

Ahh yes, the infamous ARMS/Dick S BS again. Everyone needs to let that shit go once and for all. Yes Grant hated ARMS and DS. WE ALL KNOW THAT. End of story.

I like Grant. He and I got into it a few times over the ARMS issues but we managed to walk away friendly. Others however saw him as an instigator and troll. Maybe. matbe not. I'm not the guys judge and jury. I have no comment on that given there were more than a few others who ruined good threads on ARMS products, Mine Included!

This may be the reason why he is no longer here. To be fair about the whole thing, the "other" haters out there (some of which are NON PAYING MEMBERS) need to be tossed also IMHO! Hey, but thats just me........


No offense to any other non paying members please. You are just as valuable here. I'm just pointing to the trouble makers out there and they know who they are.


Link Posted: 3/22/2006 2:06:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RABIDFOX50:
ARFCOM aint what it use to be folks.



Yes it it... Lots of good people and info here, but the back-room politics have been going on for most of the history of this site and is the reason that I won't pay a subscription fee.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 2:16:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Griz:

Originally Posted By RABIDFOX50:
ARFCOM aint what it use to be folks.



Yes it it... Lots of good people and info here, but the back-room politics have been going on for most of the history of this site and is the reason that I won't pay a subscription fee.



Sad but true. As long as we all get the advice and knowledge of the black rifle we so crave.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 3:03:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 3:15:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:

Originally Posted By Griz:

Originally Posted By RABIDFOX50:
ARFCOM aint what it use to be folks.



Yes it it... Lots of good people and info here, but the back-room politics have been going on for most of the history of this site and is the reason that I won't pay a subscription fee.




Since you think you know what is going on with Grants account, why don't you share it with everyone.



If I knew what was going on, it wouldn't be "back room" politics now would it, smart guy?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 3:32:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 3:44:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
That is the point I was trying to make. You don't know what's going on, yet you claim there is back room politics at work. Whatever the reason for Grant not having an account here, that is between him and the owners of this site.

If you consider discussions between a member (concerning their own account), and the owners of the site, as backroom politics. Well, then you don't understand the idea of privacy. Until Grant, or the owners decide to discuss this in public, then they should be given their privacy to deal with all this.



Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Given the secrecy, the only logical conclusion is that it would be embarrassing to arfcom to reveal why they pulled his dealership. It is obviously in Grant's best interest to keep quiet and hope to be let back in because he's going to take a hit to his bottom line if he can't get back on here. I'd really love to be proven wrong, but, sadly, history tells us that I won't.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:31:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 9:27:39 AM EDT by El_Abogado]
Or the owners and Grant are respecting each other's privacy and reputations while they work it out. My guess is that Grant crossed the line one too many times and that manufacturer who likes to sue forced the issue. No one's perfect in this story, but some are trying to do the right thing.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:23:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 8:24:27 AM EDT by RABIDFOX50]
VA, dont get me wrong. I lay no claim as to "why" he was kicked, however I do have a feeling it is because of his attacks on every single ARMS topic???? Just a guess. C4 and I have had our little debates and we always walked away friends. I try to do that with everyone. At least I hope I make the effort to. I just wish we were back to the old days like on the old site. I was on ARFCOM long before my posted start date when the site was ned (diff. screen name), and there was alot less BS. Maybe cuz it was new?
Anyway, I emailed him for some SF parts and I did not bring up the subject to him. I will leave it be.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:31:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By El_Abogado:
Or the owners and Grant are respecting each other's privacy and reputations while they work it out. My guess is that Grant crossed the line one too many times and that manufacturer who likes to sue forced the issue. No one's perfect in this story, but some are trying to do the right thing.



Hmmm...

You'd probably burn your hand if you said anymore...
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:26:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 7:54:01 AM EDT by Rmplstlskn]
First I see the huge fiasco in the Survival Forum on Mountain House group buys where good people were run off due to management/ownership demands, forcing them to do more group buys at warrifles.com instead. Threads were then deleted, content edited or threads locked entirely...

The disagreement and parting ways didn't bother near as much as the "CLEAN UP JOB" and CENSORING of the discussion about it did.

Now I read that Grant has been CENSORED, forcing his dealer account to be closed and leaving this site altogether? WTH is going on with AR15.com lately?

I often forget that AR15.com is a business... The "community" is really more like cyberspace deer feeders luring prey into the gun sights of the vendors. Free expression of opinion or ideas is only tolerated until the WALLET is threatened, it appears.

I'm disappointed to see this, but after the SF group buy detonation, I'm not surprised to read this in the least...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:39:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 2:34:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
The MH Group Buy issue is a totally separte thing here. There are reasons thngs were handled the way they were. Since I don't go into the SF, I don't know if they were explained or not.

The claims about it "being all about the money" are extremely harsh IMO. The owners of this site have done a lot to help foster a sense of community here. Unfortunately, it does take money for this site to exist. I'm sure if everything could be done for free, the owners would handle it that way.



YOURE PART OF IT!



Link Posted: 3/24/2006 3:15:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:30:12 AM EDT
Wow, I could not figure why Grant was not posting for a wile. I made a few purchases before Aimless edited his posts. No wonder why he did not answer his IM's.

I don't know what happened but IMO think it's a sucky deal, well unless he wanted to leave.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:57:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 7:26:17 AM EDT by Rmplstlskn]

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
The MH Group Buy issue is a totally separte thing here. There are reasons thngs were handled the way they were. Since I don't go into the SF, I don't know if they were explained or not.

The claims about it "being all about the money" are extremely harsh IMO. The owners of this site have done a lot to help foster a sense of community here. Unfortunately, it does take money for this site to exist. I'm sure if everything could be done for free, the owners would handle it that way.



This is NOT a money issue. I'm a Capitalist... I have nothing against profit and making something you enjoy into a career, and AR15.com has been a huge success story. I wish I would have thought it up and started it. My beef is if you start an internet "community" as a business with the the American ideals of free speech WITH RESPONSIBILITY, the you have to stick to your guns on it... When threads are deleted, posts edited and/or locked that question site mgmt. behavior or policy, that crosses the line in my book.

AR15.com doesn't have to allow "official" group buys, but don't use mod control to HIDE THE CONTROVERSY and quash the dissatisfaction such policy brings out from the members. That is not community... Plus, if members want to talk about banding together for an unofficial consolidation of their buying power to get a huge discount on something, why should mgmt. care? Is this not a cyberstreet cafe where we stop by to chat (and see billboards and meet with vendors), or have we entered a "controlled room" where everything you do is watched and controlled?

As for G&R Tactical, it seems someone might have learned from watching our government in action that trying to keep secrets and removing EVIDENCE of possible wrong doing is not the best policy for a "community." Secrecy breeds RUMORS, CONSPIRACY and SUSPICION...

If Grant crossed the dealer agreement line somewhere, they should just say so. If someone is threatening AR15.com with frivilous lawsuits, explain it as such so that we, the members, can judge accordingly with our vendor dollars. Whatever the problem was (I don't know), just lay it out as fact so rumors and possible false info is not spread around...

This is what upsets me about recent AR15.com behavior: that it resembles our state and federal government in the way it handles controversy; hide, bury, shred, be vague, put on a smiley face, etc... Is all of that for our protection or the sites?

I won't kick this dog any further... what is done is done. All I know is that I had hoped that "WE" were different from our state and national leaders we criticize so much. From what I know about both events, I am saddened in how site mgmt has handled it. The same way I am disappointed in gun shops that frown on concealed carry and demand all weapons be unloaded, yet want OTHER businesses to allow both without restriction.

WE ARE THEM!!!! We are no different....

Rmpl
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:31:29 AM EDT
If Grant's not allowed to post at all anymore, I'll be pretty disappointed. It's one thing to lose one of the best dealers we have, but it's a whole other for him to not be allowed to post at all.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:56:04 AM EDT
Speaking of the results of how these matters are handled...

The rumor about G & R's feedback being deleted is not true. It is still there...

Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:59:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 9:00:12 AM EDT by DrMark]
For clarity, G&R Tactical's feedback was deleted from the dealer thread, presumably when his dealer account was closed.

The feedback numbers are still around, but now in the individual threads, alphabetized by Grant's username:

C4iGrant /G & R Tactical + 621 (1 Neutral)


Link Posted: 3/24/2006 9:03:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrMark:
For clarity, G&R Tactical's feedback was deleted from the dealer thread, presumably when his dealer account was closed.

The feedback numbers are still around, but now in the individual threads, alphabetized by Grant's username:

C4iGrant /G & R Tactical + 621 (1 Neutral)





1 Neutral! No wonder he was booted. We don't need scum like that around here!
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 11:46:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrMark:
For clarity, G&R Tactical's feedback was deleted from the dealer thread, presumably when his dealer account was closed.

The feedback numbers are still around, but now in the individual threads, alphabetized by Grant's username:

C4iGrant /G & R Tactical + 621 (1 Neutral)





I was looking at the THREAD in the feedback forum... Yes, it has been deleted from the dealer feedback thread. Sorry for any confusion...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 12:26:12 PM EDT
I could EASILY see a group buy going south. When we did our 40+ Aimpoint group buy last fall a dealer could have easily said "Well, if I can sell 45 at one time, I will go that low on the price!" and all it will take is for him to tell the owners that he ought to be the one to get the deal and not some other non-dealer.

True, we got our aimpoints cheaper than any dealer here could have offered, but I bet had the price been more reasonable or above a dealer's real cost, there would have been a problem. Had our final price each been even $1 higher than a dealer's wholesale cost, he would or could have insisted he make the $45 and make 45 members very happy. Why wouldn't he?

Bob from Akron Armory was removed and censored VERY quickly last fall for something that was definitely not fully his fault. He and a business partner had a falling out but since his business partner is close friends with a very well respected paying dealer here, Bob lost the fight.

Link Posted: 3/24/2006 12:42:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 12:42:18 PM EDT by JosephR]
dt...


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