That wasn't as bad as I had expected. It mostly sounds like an add for his buisness, with some BS thrown in.

For those interested in what some of the other witnesses had to say:



ORAL STATEMENT
ANNETTE GELLES, OWNER, SHOWMASTERS GUN SHOWS
BEFORE THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE’S
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME, TERRORISM, AND HOMELAND SECURITY
FEBRUARY 15, 2006


Mr. Chairman my name is Annette Gelles of Showmasters Gun Shows. I would like to provide a brief statement concerning the events surrounding the Richmond Gun Show held on August 13 – 14, 2005 at the Richmond International Raceway.

By way of background, I have been the sole manager and proprietor of Showmasters for 10 years. Showmasters is a family owned business that began as Old Dominion Shows in 1971. My father and mother began the Roanoke Valley Gun Show and Old Dominion Gun Collectors Society 34 years ago. Over the years, we have produced thousands of shows in Virginia, West Virginia, and Maryland.

We are a family oriented business with a conservative customer base. We allow no profanity, pornography, explosive or smoke devices so that the show is appropriate for families with children. Many of the exhibitors are retired or active duty military or law enforcement personnel. Many are just average citizens - hobbyists, knife collectors, coin collectors, holster manufacturers, booksellers, and those offering police supplies and accessories.

To ensure the public and exhibitors are safe we check guns at the door to make sure none are loaded and the guns are tied so they are inoperative as they enter the show. We also have exhibitors tie their guns so they are inoperative. We provide security during public hours and through the night.

ATF and other law enforcement personnel have always attended the shows. Not in great numbers like the August, show but we would recognize one or two walking through the shows, usually as customers, but I am sure sometimes conducting official business. They are usually friendly, professional, and not aggressive towards the public or exhibitors.

However, at the Richmond Gun Show on August 13 – 14, 2005, at least 45 law enforcement officers including ATF, Virginia State Police, Henrico County Police and Richmond City Police were assigned to the Show. These officers were acting under ATF’s direction and were present in the building on Saturday August 13, 2005. According to Brian Swann, Acting Resident Agent in Charge (A/RAC) with the ATF Richmond area office at the time, and Donna Tate, Virginia State Police (VSP) this was an ATF/Virginia State Police Task Force. I was told by two uniformed Henrico County police officers that at least fourteen Henrico County Police were present on Saturday in plain clothes.

This enormous law enforcement presence was reflected throughout the weekend. 66 marked and unmarked law enforcement vehicles were on the lot at 10:00 AM on Sunday morning. The numbers of Henrico County Police at the main entrance before the fence fluctuated all day, but on average there were two to three vehicles at all times. 400 Henrico County Police and Richmond City Police were assigned “in the field” to assist officers at the show. I understand that there are a total of 475 Henrico County and Richmond City officers. Mr. Chairman, you might ask if the purpose for this operation was explained to me as the show promoter. It was not. Instead, here is what I observed. People were approached and discouraged from purchasing guns, before attempting to purchase they were interrogated and accused of being in the gun business without a license, detained in police vehicles, and gun buyer’s homes visited by police and much more.

An example of what happened is as follows: One individual was simply pulled aside from a table in the middle of a purchase and asked by an ATF agent, “What do you want to buy that gun for?” All weekend long people were interrogated in a similar manner at a table in the concession area just outside the ATF Command Post exit door.

Every person who tried to buy a gun at the show had a residency check done, according to Special Agent Swann. The residency check consisted of having a marked police vehicle sent to the purchaser’s home to check if the person trying to buy a gun actually lived where their identification indicated (usually a Virginia Drivers License and one other form of identification with a matching address). At this point, the purchaser had not yet been run through the background check and therefore no evidence was present that would indicate the identification presented was incorrect and there was also no way to ascertain if the individual had a criminal record.

As for any real evidence of lawbreakers at the show, here is what we know so far. Two persons with warrants for arrest were identified using NICS, just as they would have been if BATFE had not been there. Normally, the Virginia State Police that are assigned to the show arrest these individuals. One was arrested and one left the building before he could be arrested because of the delay created by the ATF’s residency check procedure. We have filed a FOIA request with ATF for more information, but they have yet to release anything substantive to us.

What ATF did achieve was to devastate attendance at the show. Average public attendance is 4,000 persons at the Richmond Gun Show at Richmond International Raceway. I had less than 2,000 in public attendance during August 13 – 14, 2005. We charge $7.00 for admission and that means we lost about $14,000 in admission charges. The November show also had less than 2,000 in public attendance, we strongly believe due to the fears of law-abiding citizens being unnecessarily monitored by their government. The November show usually has 4,500 to 5,000 in public attendance.

The impact on exhibitors was much greater. It is difficult to put a dollar amount on the losses experienced by exhibitors because some sales are as much as $70,000 for one gun or $500 for another. However, we estimate their losses well above $300,000. The good will that exhibitors had established with the community as a safe and responsible way for citizens to sell their guns was destroyed that weekend by the overt police and undercover law enforcement presence. Many exhibitors told me that if this were to happen again that they would not be back.

The ATF / Virginia State Police operation was methodical, systematic, prolonged, and vast. Scrutiny should be placed on why these officers were sent out in imposing numbers to do an operation that was of questionable legality, and certainly offensive to our constitutional freedoms. I want to say that well prior to this chain of events, I personally met with the Special Agent in Charge of the Washington Field Division, and offered, along with my colleague, Steve Elliott of C&E Shows, to work with ATF in a mutually respectful and professional way. To ATF’s credit, they followed up on some of our positive suggestions. We believed that we were on the right track to an appropriate and harmonious relationship with the Bureau. I would still like that relationship Mr. Chairman. I am not interested in interfering with their lawful enforcement duties. I respect and honor the sacrifices that many law enforcement officers make on a daily basis for our citizens. However, I found that growing up in a relatively small community that the law enforcement officers that were most honored and highly regarded are those who respect and honor the privacy, constitutional, and property rights of the citizens they are serving. ATF needs to account for what happened, explain to this committee why it will not be repeated, and commit itself to working with the trade for the mutually shared goal of safer communities.

TESTIMONY OF JAMES LALIME

BEFORE

THE HOUSE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME, TERRORISM,
AND HOMELAND SECURITY



Oversight Hearing of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms (ATF) Part 1: Gun Show Enforcement

Wednesday, February 15, 2006
4:00pm

2141 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C.


Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee. My name is James Lalime of Colonial Heights, Virginia. It is a great honor for me to be here today at this oversight hearing on the Gun Show Enforcement. I am currently employed by a National gun dealer as a salesman and was present at the Richmond Gun Show August 13 thru the 14th, 2005. As an avid gun enthusiast and shooter, I usually attend as many gun shows as I possibly can. I decided to attend the Richmond gun show to see if I could sell a couple of firearms and parts. Had I known what was going to transpire, I would not have attended the show.

I had been at the gun show for a few hours after selling one antique rifle, a handgun, and a rifle stock. I was looking over some rifle parts at one of the tables, when I was approached by a man who claimed he was an ATF agent, who I later found out was agent Jerad McComas, and a Virginia State Trooper Ingram. At no time did agent McComas show me an identification. Agent McComas said he wished to talk to me and stated that I wasn’t being charged with anything, and that he didn’t want to make a scene. We, agent McComas, Trooper Ingram, and myself proceeded to walk over to a side by the entrance in the building where the show was being held. Agent McComas again stated that I was not being charged with anything, but began interrogating me.

The first question agent McComas asked me was, “We see you at a lot of gun shows, are you in the business of buying and selling firearms?” To which I answered, “No sir, these are my personal firearms.” Again agent McComas said, “well we see you at every gunshow, are you sure you’re not buying and selling guns as a business?” And again I told him that these were out of my personal collection. To which agent McComas replied, “Well, because we see you at all the gunshows we think you are, and you should get a business license to do so, it’s not that hard!” When I tried to explain to agent McComas the reason they see me at all the shows, might be because I work for a FFL dealer and work at those shows. Agent McComas replied, “Are you walking around at gunshows buying and selling guns for the dealer you work for?’ I told him no, that I was there for myself, that I had some guns I didn’t shoot and wanted to sell. Again agent McComas insisted that they saw me at, “ALL the gunshows” And again I told him that I worked for an FFL dealer, at gunshows and maybe that’s why they see me at every show. Agent McComas again asked if I was there working for the FFL dealer, and again I told him that I was there for myself. This type of round, and round questioning went on for about another 15-20 minutes. At some point, I cut off agent McComas and asked trooper Ingram what he needed me for. He told me that my drivers license had been suspended, and that he needed to issue me a notification of suspension.

Trooper Ingram, agent McComas, and myself, went to my car so I could put a firearm I was carrying into it’s case, then went with trooper Ingram to his patrol car. I sat in the front seat of the patrol car as Trooper Ingram wrote up the notification. As he was writing the notification, I asked him what my license had been suspended for. He told me it came up on the computer, as a non-traffic suspension, and couldn’t give me any more information. This took approximately 30-40 minutes, during this time agent McComas was continuing his line of interrogation. Asking me how many guns I owned, when was the last time I purchased a gun etc., etc., etc. It got to the point where Trooper Ingram asked agent McComas if he would stop for a moment so he could finish. Trooper Ingram was then able to answer all of my question the best he could, then told me it was okay to get out of the patrol car. As I was stepping out of the Patrol car agent McComas immediately continued with his interrogation, with the same line of questioning as before, over and over. As soon as I received the notification fo suspension form Trooper Ingram, I told agent McComas if I wasn’t being charged with anything then I must be free to go, and left. I later learned that the suspension of my divers license, was due to a state employees error.

After I got over the initial shock of all that had happened and had time to think about it, I felt my rights had been violated, and was rather perturbed. I spoke briefly with Annette Gelles, then decided to get some information about the agent who interrogated me (agent McComas). I walked back into the gunshow to try and find him without success. I found another ATF agent that I had seen at some other shows, and asked him where I could find someone to speak with. He pointed out his supervisor (agent Brian Swan), and I proceeded to walk over to him. When I got to where agent Swan was standing, he was talking to some other ATF agents, so I waited off to the side for him to finish. When agent Swan was done he asked if he could help me, I told agent Swan I wished to speak to agent McComas. I considered his response of “What for!”. in a loud tone, to be quite rude. When I told agent Swan I wanted agent McComas’ badge number, and contact information, agent Swan again responded in a loud tone, “What for, we see you at ALL the gunshows!” I told him that I thought my rights had been violated, and that I might seek legal action. I then told agent Swan that I would wait up at the front entrance, where agent McComas’ had interrogated me.

I had been waiting approximately 10 minutes when both agent McComas, and agent Swan walked up. I then asked agent McComas for his badge number, to which he responded, “We don’t have badges.” I then asked for contact information from him at the ATF and told him I may be seeking legal counsel. After some talking between agent McComas and agent Swan, they agreed to write down contact information for themselves. It was at about this time I noticed that the shirt agent McComas was wearing had profanity emblazoned across the back, and asked if it was customary for ATF agents to wear profanity in public, where women and children could see it. To which agent McComas replied, “It’s customary for the ATF to wear anything they want to, when they are under-cover.” I told him that I was offended and was sure that there were others who attended the show who were offended also. Agent McComas’ sarcastic response to that was, “Why don’t you have a list!” I told him I could probably get one, with signatures, in about 20 minutes. Agent McComas then got about an inch from my face and said in a very threatening tone, “You’re really making a big deal out of nothing!” I then said, “No sir, I am not.” He then got closer and said in an even more threatening tone, “You’re really making a big mess out of nothing!” Again I replied, “No sir, I am not.” Agent McComas started to say something else, but agent Swan took agent McComas by the arm, and pulled him away. The last thing agent McComas said to me, was when I was leaving. I had received a call from my wife letting me know she was in the parking lot to drive my car home. As I was walking out, agent McComas was walking in. With a smug look on his face, and in a very sarcastic tone he said, “Have a nice day.”

I found this whole incident to be disheartening, and rather humiliating. Never in my life have I been made to feel so violated, and this is not a feeling that I’ll soon forget. I am a law abiding citizen that has gone through background checks that were approved, to be able to work on military installations. A background check that was approved, for a Concealed Carry Weapon permit. A background check that was approved by the ATF itself, to be able to sell firearms for an FFL in the state of Virginia. I am as far from the criminal element as a person can be, and yet I was singled out for harassment by ATF agent McComas, and ATF agent Swan who was the lead agent. I feel these two agent went far beyond the limitations of their jobs, and should be under investigation.

Thank you once again for the opportunity to testify.