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Posted: 1/11/2006 2:40:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 5:21:32 AM EDT by mjohn3006]
I am having a 16" barrel collapsing stock semi-auto UZI trasfered to a local shop. A local shop that has always been very knowlegable.

I set up the transfer and recieved this email in responce:

I'm guessing this has a folding stock, right? If that is the case, you will need to bring
a document (current passport, voter ID card, or birth certificate) that
proves your citizenship in addition to the "regular" two forms of ID you
need for any firearm purchase. Let me know if you have any questions on
that, it is a Virginia law that still applies to what the Commonwealth
defines as "assault weapons".



My responce to that is

ETA, now that I think about it. Every rifle I bought in VA that has a colapsable or folding stock, I bought in a fixed stock configuration, then I put a folding collapsing stock on it. Is that a problem?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:47:31 PM EDT
Tag

-Foxxz
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:28:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:02:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:49:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:53:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:33:53 PM EDT
Okay. Here is the gun shops responce to my further pressing the question:

All are legal to own and transfer. The Virginia law requiring proof of
citizenship is something alot of dealers don't seem to be aware of.
Virginia law defines "assault weapons" as anything that has a folding or
telescoping stock or the ability to readily attach a sound suppressor.
Wacky, but that's what it says.


Me:
Oh well. Learn somthing new every day.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:22:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Okay. Here is the gun shops responce to my further pressing the question:

All are legal to own and transfer. The Virginia law requiring proof of
citizenship is something alot of dealers don't seem to be aware of.
Virginia law defines "assault weapons" as anything that has a folding or
telescoping stock or the ability to readily attach a sound suppressor.
Wacky, but that's what it says.


Me:
Oh well. Learn somthing new every day.



here it is:


Transfer of an Assault Firearm

Proof of citizenship, or of lawful admission for a permanent residence, must be established prior to the purchase of an "assault firearm." An assault firearm is defined as any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of offence with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.



From the VSP website

Notice the bold red part. It isn't an offence to buy a weapon with these features, but if you use it in a crime, they slapp you with an 'assault weapon' charge.

It's a B.S. definition that they use to make you provide additional documentation.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:07:31 PM EDT
When I had a stripped lower transfered to me at my local FFL, they made me show proof of citizenship. I couldn't believe it, but whatever...I just wanted my lower.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:42:54 AM EDT
I guess it is better than MD. In MD, if it is an "assault rifle" you have the extra form like a handgun and a 7 day wait.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:42:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Man, you AK guys and your logging into AK47.net...



Wasn't your second gun at the last Cavalier rifle side match an AK?

Hmmm????
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:15:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 3:16:11 PM EDT by Templar]
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:21:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:41:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Templar:
Yeah, the one he came in third with behind two other AK's....ahead of all the AR's......



Looks like all three were all smallbore (5.45 and 5.56). Just an observation....


Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Ssssh, I have to keep up my image of the evil AR Staff.



Also looks like your AR brought you in fifth (out of 33 total shooters).

Conclusion ==> it's da man, not da gun.

(I had a veery bad day that time and won't allude to my ranking.)
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:51:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:56:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
I'm going to try my Tantal build at the next rifle side match.



Is that a side-folder? Can't quite tell from the pic.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 4:16:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:05:34 AM EDT
Schaa - weeeet !!!

Looking forward to seeing it in.....Feb?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:20:50 AM EDT
I changed the thread title for ya.

Don't really care, my question got answered. It's just funny.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 5:32:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 5:36:29 AM EDT by Hallmark_Ent]
Where's a good moderator when you need him to keep this thread on topic.....



Steve
Hallmark Small Arms
804-986-7409
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:42:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hallmark_Ent:
Where's a good moderator when you need him to keep this thread on topic.....



[bart] I-did-ent-do-it [/bart]
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:30:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:54:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Hey now, I thought we were discussing "Assault Rifles" in VA. I can't help it if we're talking about our "Assault Rifles".



Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:12:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IceHandLuke:

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Hey now, I thought we were discussing "Assault Rifles" in VA. I can't help it if we're talking about our "Assault Rifles".






Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:33:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 7:33:58 PM EDT by gotm4]

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I am having a 16" barrel collapsing stock semi-auto UZI trasfered to a local shop. A local shop that has always been very knowlegable.

I set up the transfer and recieved this email in responce:

I'm guessing this has a folding stock, right? If that is the case, you will need to bring
a document (current passport, voter ID card, or birth certificate) that
proves your citizenship in addition to the "regular" two forms of ID you
need for any firearm purchase. Let me know if you have any questions on
that, it is a Virginia law that still applies to what the Commonwealth
defines as "assault weapons".



My responce to that is

ETA, now that I think about it. Every rifle I bought in VA that has a colapsable or folding stock, I bought in a fixed stock configuration, then I put a folding collapsing stock on it. Is that a problem?



I think you're referring to my shop/employer (VA Arms). This isn't really a new law just one that's just now coming to the lime-light since the Federal AWB sunsetted. It's applied for quite awhile but since no one was really transferring "Assault Weapons' no one was really familiar with this VA law.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:22:06 AM EDT
I kind of like the "time of offense" thing. It is about time they create a law that doesnt affect a law abiding citizen. Also props to how the ATF does their proof of citizenship on their form 1 and form 4s. There is a little page you write your name on and then sign it certifying you are a citizen. Then you mail that to them and do nothing else with it.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:57:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 5:00:46 AM EDT by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By gotm4:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I am having a 16" barrel collapsing stock semi-auto UZI trasfered to a local shop. A local shop that has always been very knowlegable.

I set up the transfer and recieved this email in responce:

I'm guessing this has a folding stock, right? If that is the case, you will need to bring
a document (current passport, voter ID card, or birth certificate) that
proves your citizenship in addition to the "regular" two forms of ID you
need for any firearm purchase. Let me know if you have any questions on
that, it is a Virginia law that still applies to what the Commonwealth
defines as "assault weapons".



My responce to that is

ETA, now that I think about it. Every rifle I bought in VA that has a colapsable or folding stock, I bought in a fixed stock configuration, then I put a folding collapsing stock on it. Is that a problem?



I think you're referring to my shop/employer (VA Arms). This isn't really a new law just one that's just now coming to the lime-light since the Federal AWB sunsetted. It's applied for quite awhile but since no one was really transferring "Assault Weapons' no one was really familiar with this VA law.



HA It all comes togethere now. I remember what you look like from one of the ARFCOM dinners. And there is that one guy who looks so familiar at VA Arms.

I finnaly tied the two together. I think I bought my Kimber Ultra Carry from you.
I think it was you two weeks ago, we were talking about silencers and then found out we were both getting our silencers from the same guy. Then I said I had forgotten to sign the questionair given by the Sheriff. Sound familiar?


Just got word your FFL went through and the FFL in PA is shipping my Uzi to you guys this morning. So I will see you sometime next week....brith certificate in hand.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:25:50 PM EDT
Should have never been an issue. Two forms of ID...thats it. Anything beyond that is just the FFL's doing. Va doesn't care what it is as long as it is leagal and not an AOW,SBR, or NFA weapon.
A 16" barreled UZI with a folding stock should be a rifle if its not an NFA weapon.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:26:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By einheit13:
Should have never been an issue. Two forms of ID...thats it. Anything beyond that is just the FFL's doing. Va doesn't care what it is as long as it is leagal and not an AOW,SBR, or NFA weapon.
A 16" barreled UZI with a folding stock should be a rifle if its not an NFA weapon.



It appears that you haven't been paying attention...
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:54:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 11:35:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 4:57:05 AM EDT by VA-gunnut]


Originally Posted By einheit13:
***Edited<va-gunnut>***


Should have never been an issue. Two forms of ID...thats it. Anything beyond that is just the FFL's doing. Va doesn't care what it is as long as it is leagal and not an AOW,SBR, or NFA weapon.
A 16" barreled UZI with a folding stock should be a rifle if its not an NFA weapon.



Silly us, yeah we just make this shit up! For some reason in my head I keeping hearing ASS and a HOLE IN THE GROUND, while reading your reply to this post. I guess I'm just crazy. ***Edited<va-gunnut>***

Virginia Code
§ 18.2-308.2:2. Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms.

A. Any person purchasing from a dealer a firearm as herein defined shall consent in writing, on a form to be provided by the Department of State Police, to have the dealer obtain criminal history record information. Such form shall include only the written consent; the name, birth date, gender, race, citizenship, and social security number and/or any other identification number; the number of firearms by category intended to be sold, rented, traded, or transferred; and answers by the applicant to the following questions: (i) has the applicant been convicted of a felony offense or found guilty or adjudicated delinquent as a juvenile 14 years of age or older at the time of the offense of a delinquent act that would be a felony if committed by an adult and (ii) is the applicant subject to a court order restraining the applicant from harassing, stalking, or threatening the applicant's child or intimate partner, or a child of such partner, or is the applicant subject to a protective order.

B. 1. No dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any such firearm to any other person who is a resident of Virginia until he has (i) obtained written consent and the other information on the consent form specified in subsection A, and provided the Department of State Police with the name, birth date, gender, race, citizenship, and social security and/or any other identification number and the number of firearms by category intended to be sold, rented, traded or transferred and (ii) requested criminal history record information by a telephone call to or other communication authorized by the State Police and is authorized by subdivision 2 of this subsection to complete the sale or other such transfer. To establish personal identification and residence in Virginia for purposes of this section, a dealer must require any prospective purchaser to present one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense, and other documentation of residence. Except where the photo-identification was issued by the United States Department of Defense, the other documentation of residence shall show an address identical to that shown on the photo-identification form, such as evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax, or a current (a) lease, (b) utility or telephone bill, (c) voter registration card, (d) bank check, (e) passport, (f) automobile registration, or (g) hunting or fishing license; other current identification allowed as evidence of residency by Part 178.124 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and ATF Ruling 2001-5; or other documentation of residence determined to be acceptable by the Department of Criminal Justice Services, that corroborates that the prospective purchaser currently resides in Virginia. Where the photo-identification was issued by the Department of Defense, permanent orders assigning the purchaser to a duty post in Virginia shall be the only other required documentation of residence. For the purposes of this section and establishment of residency for firearm purchase, residency shall be deemed to be the permanent duty post of a member of the armed forces. When the photo-identification presented to a dealer by the prospective purchaser is a driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, and such identification form contains a date of issue, the dealer shall not, except for a renewed driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, sell or otherwise transfer a firearm to the prospective purchaser until 30 days after the date of issue of an original or duplicate driver's license unless the prospective purchaser also presents a copy of his Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles driver's record showing that the original date of issue of the driver's license was more than 30 days prior to the attempted purchase.

In addition, no dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any assault firearm to any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence. To establish citizenship or lawful admission for a permanent residence for purposes of purchasing an assault firearm, a dealer shall require a prospective purchaser to present a certified birth certificate or a certificate of birth abroad issued by the United States State Department, a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, an unexpired U.S. passport, a United States citizen identification card, a current voter registration card, a current selective service registration card, or an immigrant visa or other documentation of status as a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services.

Upon receipt of the request for a criminal history record information check, the State Police shall (1) review its criminal history record information to determine if the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law, (2) inform the dealer if its record indicates that the buyer or transferee is so prohibited, and (3) provide the dealer with a unique reference number for that inquiry.

2. The State Police shall provide its response to the requesting dealer during the dealer's request, or by return call without delay. If the criminal history record information check indicates the prospective purchaser or transferee has a disqualifying criminal record or has been acquitted by reason of insanity and committed to the custody of the Commissioner of Mental Health, Mental Retardation and Substance Abuse Services, the State Police shall have until the end of the dealer's next business day to advise the dealer if its records indicate the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law. If not so advised by the end of the dealer's next business day, a dealer who has fulfilled the requirements of subdivision 1 of this subsection may immediately complete the sale or transfer and shall not be deemed in violation of this section with respect to such sale or transfer. In case of electronic failure or other circumstances beyond the control of the State Police, the dealer shall be advised immediately of the reason for such delay and be given an estimate of the length of such delay. After such notification, the State Police shall, as soon as possible but in no event later than the end of the dealer's next business day, inform the requesting dealer if its records indicate the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law. A dealer who fulfills the requirements of subdivision 1 of this subsection and is told by the State Police that a response will not be available by the end of the dealer's next business day may immediately complete the sale or transfer and shall not be deemed in violation of this section with respect to such sale or transfer.

3. Except as required by subsection D of § 9.1-132, the State Police shall not maintain records longer than 30 days, except for multiple handgun transactions for which records shall be maintained for 12 months, from any dealer's request for a criminal history record information check pertaining to a buyer or transferee who is not found to be prohibited from possessing and transporting a firearm under state or federal law. However, the log on requests made may be maintained for a period of 12 months, and such log shall consist of the name of the purchaser, the dealer identification number, the unique approval number and the transaction date.

4. On the last day of the week following the sale or transfer of any firearm, the dealer shall mail or deliver the written consent form required by subsection A to the Department of State Police. The State Police shall immediately initiate a search of all available criminal history record information to determine if the purchaser is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm under state or federal law. If the search discloses information indicating that the buyer or transferee is so prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm, the State Police shall inform the chief law-enforcement officer in the jurisdiction where the sale or transfer occurred and the dealer without delay.

5. Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, rifles and shotguns may be purchased by persons who are citizens of the United States or persons lawfully admitted for permanent residence but residents of other states under the terms of subsections A and B upon furnishing the dealer with proof of citizenship or status as a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence and one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the person's state of residence and one other form of identification determined to be acceptable by the Department of Criminal Justice Services.

6. For the purposes of this subsection, the phrase "dealer's next business day" shall not include December 25.

C. No dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any firearm, except when the transaction involves a rifle or a shotgun and can be accomplished pursuant to the provisions of subdivision B 5 to any person who is not a resident of Virginia unless he has first obtained from the Department of State Police a report indicating that a search of all available criminal history record information has not disclosed that the person is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm under state or federal law. The dealer shall obtain the required report by mailing or delivering the written consent form required under subsection A to the State Police within 24 hours of its execution. If the dealer has complied with the provisions of this subsection and has not received the required report from the State Police within 10 days from the date the written consent form was mailed to the Department of State Police, he shall not be deemed in violation of this section for thereafter completing the sale or transfer.

D. Nothing herein shall prevent a resident of the Commonwealth, at his option, from buying, renting or receiving a firearm from a dealer in Virginia by obtaining a criminal history record information check through the dealer as provided in subsection C.

E. If any buyer or transferee is denied the right to purchase a firearm under this section, he may exercise his right of access to and review and correction of criminal history record information under § 9.1-132 or institute a civil action as provided in § 9.1-135, provided any such action is initiated within 30 days of such denial.

F. Any dealer who willfully and intentionally requests, obtains, or seeks to obtain criminal history record information under false pretenses, or who willfully and intentionally disseminates or seeks to disseminate criminal history record information except as authorized in this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

G. For purposes of this section:

"Antique firearm" means:

1. Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898;

2. Any replica of any firearm described in subdivision 1 of this definition if such replica (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade;

3. Any muzzle-loading rifle, muzzle-loading shotgun, or muzzle-loading pistol that is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and that cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subdivision, the term "antique firearm" shall not include any weapon that incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm that is converted into a muzzle-loading weapon, or any muzzle-loading weapon that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breech-block, or any combination thereof; or

4. Any curio or relic as defined in this subsection.

"Assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.


"Curios or relics" means firearms that are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms that were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, which use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, but not including replicas thereof;

2. Firearms that are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

3. Any other firearms that derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collectors' items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

"Dealer" means any person licensed as a dealer pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq.

"Firearm" means any handgun, shotgun, or rifle that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material.

"Handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm originally designed, made and intended to fire single or multiple projectiles by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand.

"Lawfully admitted for permanent residence" means the status of having been lawfully accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States as an immigrant in accordance with the immigration laws, such status not having changed.

H. The Department of Criminal Justice Services shall promulgate regulations to ensure the identity, confidentiality and security of all records and data provided by the Department of State Police pursuant to this section.

I. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors, manufacturers or dealers pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq.; (ii) purchases by or sales to any law-enforcement officer or agent of the United States, the Commonwealth or any local government; or (iii) antique firearms, curios or relics.

J. The provisions of this section shall not apply to restrict purchase, trade or transfer of firearms by a resident of Virginia when the resident of Virginia makes such purchase, trade or transfer in another state, in which case the laws and regulations of that state and the United States governing the purchase, trade or transfer of firearms shall apply. A National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) check shall be performed prior to such purchase, trade or transfer of firearms.

J1. All licensed firearms dealers shall collect a fee of $2 for every transaction for which a criminal history record information check is required pursuant to this section, except that a fee of $5 shall be collected for every transaction involving an out-of-state resident. Such fee shall be transmitted to the Department of State Police by the last day of the month following the sale for deposit in a special fund for use by the State Police to offset the cost of conducting criminal history record information checks under the provisions of this section.

K. Any person willfully and intentionally making a materially false statement on the consent form required in subsection B or C or on such firearm transaction records as may be required by federal law, shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony.

L. Except as provided in § 18.2-308.2:1, any dealer who willfully and intentionally sells, rents, trades or transfers a firearm in violation of this section shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

M. Any person who purchases a firearm with the intent to (i) resell or otherwise provide such firearm to any person who he knows or has reason to believe is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive from a dealer a firearm for whatever reason or (ii) transport such firearm out of the Commonwealth to be resold or otherwise provided to another person who the transferor knows is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive a firearm, shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony. However, if the violation of this subsection involves such a transfer of more than one firearm, the person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years.

N. Any person who is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive or possess a firearm in the Commonwealth who solicits, employs or assists any person in violating subsection M shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony and shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years.

O. All driver's licenses issued on or after July 1, 1994, shall carry a letter designation indicating whether the driver's license is an original, duplicate or renewed driver's license.

P. Except as provided in subdivisions 1, 2 and 3 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not a licensed firearms dealer to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period. A violation of this subsection shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

1. Purchases in excess of one handgun within a 30-day period may be made upon completion of an enhanced background check, as described herein, by special application to the Department of State Police listing the number and type of handguns to be purchased and transferred for lawful business or personal use, in a collector series, for collections, as a bulk purchase from estate sales and for similar purposes. Such applications shall be signed under oath by the applicant on forms provided by the Department of State Police, shall state the purpose for the purchase above the limit, and shall require satisfactory proof of residency and identity. Such application shall be in addition to the firearms sales report required by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). The Superintendent of State Police shall promulgate regulations, pursuant to the Administrative Process Act (§ 2.2-4000 et seq.), for the implementation of an application process for purchases of handguns above the limit.

Upon being satisfied that these requirements have been met, the Department of State Police shall forthwith issue to the applicant a nontransferable certificate, which shall be valid for seven days from the date of issue. The certificate shall be surrendered to the dealer by the prospective purchaser prior to the consummation of such sale and shall be kept on file at the dealer's place of business for inspection as provided in § 54.1-4201 for a period of not less than two years. Upon request of any local law-enforcement agency, and pursuant to its regulations, the Department of State Police may certify such local law-enforcement agency to serve as its agent to receive applications and, upon authorization by the Department of State Police, issue certificates forthwith pursuant to this subsection. Applications and certificates issued under this subsection shall be maintained as records as provided in subdivision B 3. The Department of State Police shall make available to local law-enforcement agencies all records concerning certificates issued pursuant to this subsection and all records provided for in subdivision B 3.

2. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to:

a. A law-enforcement agency;

b. An agency duly authorized to perform law-enforcement duties;

c. State and local correctional facilities;

d. A private security company licensed to do business within the Commonwealth;

e. The purchase of antique firearms as herein defined;

f. A person whose handgun is stolen or irretrievably lost who deems it essential that such handgun be replaced immediately. Such person may purchase another handgun, even if the person has previously purchased a handgun within a 30-day period, provided (i) the person provides the firearms dealer with a copy of the official police report or a summary thereof, on forms provided by the Department of State Police, from the law-enforcement agency that took the report of the lost or stolen handgun; (ii) the official police report or summary thereof contains the name and address of the handgun owner, the description of the handgun, the location of the loss or theft, the date of the loss or theft, and the date the loss or theft was reported to the law-enforcement agency; and (iii) the date of the loss or theft as reflected on the official police report or summary thereof occurred within 30 days of the person's attempt to replace the handgun. The firearms dealer shall attach a copy of the official police report or summary thereof to the original copy of the Virginia firearms transaction report completed for the transaction and retain it for the period prescribed by the Department of State Police;

g. A person who trades in a handgun at the same time he makes a handgun purchase and as a part of the same transaction, provided that no more than one transaction of this nature is completed per day;

h. A person who holds a valid Virginia permit to carry a concealed handgun;

i. A person who purchases a handgun in a private sale. For purposes of this subdivision, a private sale means purchase from a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics as herein defined, or who sells all or part of such collection of curios and relics; or

j. A law-enforcement officer. For purposes of this subdivision, a law-enforcement officer means any employee of a police department or sheriff's office that is part of or administered by the Commonwealth or any political subdivision thereof, and who is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the penal, traffic or highway laws of the Commonwealth.

3. For the purposes of this subsection, "purchase" shall not include the exchange or replacement of a handgun by a seller for a handgun purchased from such seller by the same person seeking the exchange or replacement within the 30-day period immediately preceding the date of exchange or replacement.

(1989, c. 745; 1990, cc. 594, 692; 1991, cc. 515, 525, 716; 1992, cc. 637, 872; 1993, cc. 451, 461, 486, 493, 674; 1994, c. 624; 1997, c. 341; 1998, c. 844; 2002, c. 695; 2003, cc. 833, 976; 2004, cc. 354, 461, 837, 904, 922; 2005, cc. 578, 859.)
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:53:30 AM EDT


[ ]right click save as..[/]
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 4:33:06 AM EDT
OK so enlightem me, should i have shown more than 2 forms of ID to purchase my AKS-74?? Thats an "Assault weapon" right?? I have never shown more than my DL and CCW for any folding stocked, pistol gropped weapon...those are "evil features' right?? I've never shown more than that when purchasing out of state either. Sorry if I don't understand...
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 4:58:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:11:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By einheit13:
OK so enlightem me, should i have shown more than 2 forms of ID to purchase my AKS-74?? Thats an "Assault weapon" right?? I have never shown more than my DL and CCW for any folding stocked, pistol gropped weapon...those are "evil features' right?? I've never shown more than that when purchasing out of state either. Sorry if I don't understand...



You don't understand? What exactly do you not understand? You don't understand that VA has a very screwy law that is vague and leaves dealers to interperate when a purchase requires two or three forms of ID? You don't understand why your dealer has failed to do this in the past? You don't understand why smart dealers will err on the side of caution when dealing with vague laws and law enforcement agencies? Well, I doubt we will be able to help you with your lack of understanding, especially when you come here spouting garbage that insults those here who have tried to explain things and who do this for a living.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:16:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 5:28:05 AM EDT by Ross]

Originally Posted By einheit13:
OK so enlightem me, should i have shown more than 2 forms of ID to purchase my AKS-74?? Thats an "Assault weapon" right?? I have never shown more than my DL and CCW for any folding stocked, pistol gropped weapon...those are "evil features' right?? I've never shown more than that when purchasing out of state either. Sorry if I don't understand...



What happens out of state doesn't matter. As it's a VA state law, it applies only to what happens in VA. Some states (like CA) don't allow them at all, and some others wouldn't require th third ID. But since this is VA, the only thing that matters is what the VA law says, and not the law of another state. When I moved from TX to CA a few years back, I could have said "I could buy one in Texas", but that wouldn't have made it legal in CA. All that matters is the law for the state you are in, and in this case that's VA law.

All that matters is what's enumerated in the VA law posted above and below.


"Assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.



There's nothing about a pistol grip, nor anything about number of "evil features". It has to have one of them or it's not an "assault weapon" as defined by the VA law. Remember, this law has nothing to do with the previous Federal AWB law, so the "evil features" in the old AWB law have nothing to do with this.

You'll also notice the "or". It's not a cumulation of the features. All that matters is if the gun (rifle or pistol) has one of these features. If you buy a Sig P226 with a 30rd mag, that would technically be an "assault weapon" and you would need to provide the citizenship ID. If you bought an AK or Uzi with NO mag but it had a folding stock, you'd still have an "assault weapon" and require the citizenship ID. If you bought an AR-15 with a fixed stock and a 20rd mag (so far no "evil") but it had one of those super dolomite flash suppressors that have the lugs for a suppressor, then you'd need to provide the citizenship proof.

The dealer in question is 100% correct in this matter. If the Uzi has a folding stock, it doesn't matter what else it has. If it had a 25 round mag or if it had some threaded barrel "put on by the manufactuer" (key legal point there), it would be the same thing and require proof of citizenship.

So, an AR-15 "equipped" with a 30rd mag is an "assault weapon", same as an AK, etc. If that same gun had a 20rd mag, it's not.

Folding stock and suppressor attatchment are the same thing.

It's a little known law, that rarely was enforced. The dealer has to follow the law, and this is one of them, but quite a few dealers are ignorant of this law, so many times it just doesn't happen.

Edited to add:
It's not a "number" of IDs that's required. It's required that you show two forms of ID, you just have to prove citizenship with an "assault weapon". So if you use your voter registration card or any of the other ID that's valid for proof of citizenship, you wouldn't need extra ID. You don't need three ID's, you still only need two, you just need to also prove your citizenship. If you can do that with two ID's, that's fine. More is fine as well, but all that matters is you prove your citizenship.

So the short answer is: Yes, you should have had to prove your citizenship when you bought your AKS-74 since it has a folder (the "S" in AKS). If it had a fixed stock, and had a 30rd mag you would still need to prove citizenship as well. Two ID's is all you need though, if you can establish your citizenship with one of them.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 6:55:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 6:56:22 AM EDT by Longboat]

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
And I thought the answer to this question was given on the first page.


Let's all play nice kiddies...



Who left the door open for Va-gunnut? just realized I didn't get the image saved....

GotM4 please send me the fat kid pic..
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:05:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:18:50 AM EDT by mayday]
I just love how some people here have no idea that a permanent resident is NOT a US citizen, yet according to VA law they are still entitled to own assault weapons. Its almost as if they stop reading after the first three words and fail to see the rest.


Proof of citizenship, or of lawful admission for a permanent residence, must be established prior to the purchase of an "assault firearm."


Let me put it this way so that everyone can understand. Citizens AND non-citizens can own assault rifles in VA. Only if you're an illegal in VA are you barred from ownership. I just think there are too many people who ignorantly think that in the US you are either a citizen OR you're an illegal alien. If you're a PERMANENT RESIDENT as outlined above in VA code, you ARE allowed to own an assualt rifle. People, permanent residents are NOT illegal aliens ok? They are afforded all but voting rights just like citizens. Hope that clears it up, if not talk to your local immigration attorney like my wife.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:15:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:16:55 AM EDT by mayday]

You don't need three ID's, you still only need two, you just need to also prove your citizenship. If you can do that with two ID's, that's fine. More is fine as well, but all that matters is you prove your citizenship.

So the short answer is: Yes, you should have had to prove your citizenship when you bought your AKS-74 since it has a folder (the "S" in AKS). If it had a fixed stock, and had a 30rd mag you would still need to prove citizenship as well. Two ID's is all you need though, if you can establish your citizenship with one of them.



WRONG. Ok, one more time, you do NOT need to be a citizen to purchase an assault rifle in VA. Per VA code:

Who is not a citizen of the U.S., or who is not lawfully admitted for permanent residence, from knowingly and intentionally possessing or transporting any assault firearm (§ 18.2-308.2:01); or who is a firearms dealer from transferring any assault firearm to such a person; (18.2-308.2:2(B)(1))

A permanent resident as outlined above who is NOT a US citizen can purchase anything he wants; class III, AOW & assault weapons. You just have to be here legally in the US. I think your confusion is a common one which stems in the false belief that there are only two kinds of people in the US; citizens and illegals.

A resident alien will NOT have a US passport OR a voter registration card. Yet, per VA law he can still purchase it with a license and his permanent resident card which is a picture ID.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:18:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mayday:
I just love how some people here have no idea that a permanent resident is NOT a US citizen, yet according to VA law they are still entitled to own assault weapons. Its almost as if they stop reading after the first three words and fail to see the rest.


Proof of citizenship, or of lawful admission for a permanent residence, must be established prior to the purchase of an "assault firearm."


Let me put it this way so that everyone can understand. Citizens AND non-citizens can own assault rifles in VA. Only if you're an illegal in VA are you barred from ownership. I just think there are too many people who ignorantly think that in the US you are either a citizen OR you're an illegal alien. If you're a PERMANENT RESIDENT as outlined above in VA code, you ARE allowed to own an assualt rifle. People, permanent residents are NOT illegal aliens ok? They are afforded all but voting rights just like citizens. Hope that clears it up, if not talk to your local immigration attorney.



How is it that this topic brings out the jackass in everybody? Nobody here ever said you can't sell to a permenant resident. In fact, the code what was highlighted above gave the complete list of acceptible documents and immigration papers were indicated. Templar gave a list of what people normally bring, but he didn't represent that this was an inclusive list.

So, why the vitriol? What's you beef with the VA crowd? Ease up on the condecending attitude.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:25:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:27:45 AM EDT by mayday]

Originally Posted By cliffy109:
Nobody here ever said you can't sell to a permenant resident.



Gee let see here, could have sworn I read something like this:


It's not a "number" of IDs that's required. It's required that you show two forms of ID, you just have to prove citizenship with an "assault weapon". So if you use your voter registration card or any of the other ID that's valid for proof of citizenship, you wouldn't need extra


....or was it maybe this:


Yes, you should have had to prove your citizenship when you bought your AKS-74


Permanent residents arent citizens, so they cant PROVE their citizenship as quoted above. See my point?

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:33:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:37:14 AM EDT by gotm4]

Originally Posted By mayday:

Permanent residents arent citizens, so they cant PROVE their citizenship as quoted above. See my point?




You're preaching to the choir dude.

Here's the code once again.
In addition, no dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any assault firearm to any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence. To establish citizenship or lawful admission for a permanent residence for purposes of purchasing an assault firearm, a dealer shall require a prospective purchaser to present a certified birth certificate or a certificate of birth abroad issued by the United States State Department, a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, an unexpired U.S. passport, a United States citizen identification card, a current voter registration card, a current selective service registration card, or an immigrant visa or other documentation of status as a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:54:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:16:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 9:17:57 AM EDT by cliffy109]

Originally Posted By mayday:

Originally Posted By cliffy109:
Nobody here ever said you can't sell to a permenant resident.



Gee let see here, could have sworn I read something like this:


It's not a "number" of IDs that's required. It's required that you show two forms of ID, you just have to prove citizenship with an "assault weapon". So if you use your voter registration card or any of the other ID that's valid for proof of citizenship, you wouldn't need extra


....or was it maybe this:


Yes, you should have had to prove your citizenship when you bought your AKS-74


Permanent residents arent citizens, so they cant PROVE their citizenship as quoted above. See my point?




Please note the context of those quotes. They are explaining to the original poster why he needed proof of citizenship. The original poster is not an immigrant and therefore, must prove his citizenship. Misunderstanding that still doesn't give you license to be a prick to the well respected members who posted replies to this.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:23:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 9:48:46 AM EDT by mayday]

Originally Posted By Templar:
[
If you've got a chip on your shoulder about not being a citizen, work to change that.

Until then, welcome to America!



Yeesh, talk about making generalizations; last I checked I was a citizen but my fiance, soon to be wife is not. She's an immigration attorney and tells me about the constant misconseptions about permanent resident status, a few of which I've seen first hand.

She's an Philipino national and I've been with her quite a few times when we've had "issues" about people not knowing the laws. Especially at gun stores. A couple years ago, we went to a small store and I wanted her to get a small 38 special for her purse; when we talked to the poor slob behind the counter he flat out stated he would sell to illegals. Apparently the poor slob couldnt get it through his head that you dont have to be a citizen to be here legally. So yeah, when I see incorrect statements about "having to prove you're a US citizen" to buy a rifle, the ignorance kinda gets to me. Add this to the many times in conversations that people tell me if I'm worried she'll be "hauled off" to jail for not being a citizen...it kinda gets to me. M'kay?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:27:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 9:32:42 AM EDT by mayday]

Originally Posted By cliffy109:
Misunderstanding that still doesn't give you license to be a prick to the well respected members who posted replies to this.



Let me get this straight, I've never insulted anyone, especially you. Yet you choose to call me a "prick" and a "jackass". Real nice.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:36:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 9:39:56 AM EDT by cliffy109]
A little unhinged today I see. Your posts have been rude from the beginning. Phrases like "Let me put it this way so that everyone can understand." Are condecending at best. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder and have chosen to take it out on people here. You take your frustration at a guy at a gun counter that disrespected you on people who have accurately described the laws to the person who started this thread. That places you in the category of a prick and a jackass. If you're not really a prick and a jackass in real life, then I sincerely apologize. Your posts don't give an indication of this.

ETA: Nice edit. Don't think I missed the "shithead" comment though.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:51:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 10:01:58 AM EDT by Templar]
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:00:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 10:06:07 AM EDT by Templar]
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:05:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 10:06:44 AM EDT by mayday]

Originally Posted By Templar:
Or the getting drunk and beating your wife.

I just love it when we can all get along .



Alot of us have been selling guns or have sold guns for many years professionally mayday, and we know what we're talking about.

I don't recall any post in this thread disparaging legal resident aliens, certainly not your girlfriend.

You started off swinging and it went worse from there.

I think you owe Cliffy an apology, your comments were way, way out of line.

*edited to add that if you had said those things to his face instead of playing keyboard commando, it should have earned you a punch in the face.*




Ok, you're right I did come out swinging and I apologize to both Cliffy and yourself but never did I call anyone a prick or a jackass and I edited my post because unlike some people here I try not to directly insult people. So for what its worth I'm sorry.....which is exactly why I edited my post.

Now if y'all dont mind I'm off to Fuddruckers for a burger....good day to all and I'm glad we're all on the same page on this matter.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:07:17 AM EDT
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