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Posted: 1/4/2006 10:29:00 AM EDT
I have to say that it takes a bit to get me truly angry. Well...I am angry!

I have been a member of the Black Creek Shooting Association for three or four years. Today I got some time to head out to the range to shoot a bit. Being that it is January, last year's membership had run out. I lost my renewal form so I went to the range and asked for a new one. I brought my checkbook, and a copy of my NRA magazine with my membership number and name on it to prove that I am an NRA Life member.

When the guy who runs the show (Kay C.) hands me the sheet of paper to fill out he says, "No need to fill it out here, you gotta send that in by mail." No problem, can I give you my dues check right now so that I am paid up? (This has been SOP ever since I have been there). "Nope, they don't want me messin' with none of the money." Am I able to shoot today as I have been a member here for a bit? "Well if you had sent that sheet in the mail already, I would let you shoot, so if you go mail it then I guess you can shoot. There ain't no pick-up mailboxes near here though. Now, you were a member last year (4 days ago) but that was LAST YEAR and you ain't a member this year until you mail that in, so I can't let you shoot." The thing that gets me about this is that the whole time, the guy is smiling with that look like he is really trying to be a jerk.

In the past I have put up with a lot of B.S. from this guy, he constantly blames me for shooting fast, not hitting targets, farting on the range, whatever... This really fires me up as I have not done anything, I feel, to warrant this. In fact, it is a running joke between me and a couple of my shooting buddies about how he is going to yell at me. Needless to say, I am done with Black Creek as I would rather not shoot than deal with this guy.

This leads me to a problem though, I need a place to shoot. I know I can go to Dominion, but the problem is that I reload and they do not allow you to use anything but what they sell you. I am now a member there (as of today) as I feel that this will do in a pinch. I want a place to be able to shoot my rifles and pistols together without having to pay an arm and a leg for ammo. I am a stay at home dad who is going through a full time Masters Degree program so money is not flowing like it used to (hence the reloading). I am also an honorable man who ENJOYS taking responsibility for his actions rather than blaming others for his problems.

Is there anyone here that can help me out? Anyone who is a member of a reputable shooting club and can set me on the path to getting in, anyone who has a private shooting range in the area who could use some help with outdoor pickup and such, to have a new shooting bud. I will do what needs to happen, I can work on outdoor restoration projects, range upkeep, pay some $$$, buy beers after the shoot, trade a gun...Anything within reason if I could find a place to respectfully shoot, which is fairly local (meaning I can get there within around 45 minutes of southside Richmond), and not be badgered about shooting or regulated so that I can not fire my 45 Colt or ACP reloads? I have been shooting all of my life and I am not a turd when it comes to handling guns as I treat them with the utmost respect.

Sorry for the rant all, I am really angry! Please if there is anyone who can help let me know what I can do. Thanks for the time.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:13:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:28:03 AM EDT
Have you tried the Chickahominy Wildlife Management Area off of Rt 5? It's free and they have a nice range.
I live out in the Midlothian area and it's not a bad drive. It took me about an hour to get out there.

There's also a shooting range at the Amelia Wildlife Management area which is west of Richmond near Rt 60 and Rt 360, but unfortunately they do not allow handguns.

More info on Chickahominy and Amelia shooting ranges and the hours they're open:
www.dgif.state.va.us/hunting/wma/index.html

I'm also a member at the Lafayette Gun Club in York County ( www.4lgc.org ). It's a very nice range with an indoor pistol range. It's not a bad drive from the Richmond area unless traffic is bad on 64.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:11:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 12:11:36 PM EDT by fiend]
I am in the same boat as you. I hate black creek, I went there as a guest with a friend and fired off three rounds real quick and the old guy flipped out on me. Will never go back.

I am also a member of dominion as of now(my girlfriend's mom got me a range pass for x-mas), my friend and I go out to Chickahominy around once a month but it sucks being a 1 hr 15 min drive.

Templar what is this conservation park? Do they have a website? I am dying to find a reliable place around Midlothian/Richmond to shoot in under an hour drive.

ETA Amelia WMA SUCKS. They have 5 stations at the rifle range and you have to shoot through a concrete circle it's loud as HELL!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:17:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 2:49:23 PM EDT by Va_Punisher]
I had same thing happen to me when I went to renew. It would have been nice to have had some warnning about not being able to pay there. The renewal form said to mail in payment, but it has always said the same thing and they have always took my money there.
I had one of the dudes stop me while I was shooting my 16" midlength and measure it, said it was very close and that I wouldn't want to be illegal.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:31:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Punisher:
I had one of the dudes stop me while I was shooting my 16" midlenght and measure it, said it was very close and that I wouldn't want to be illegal.



Wow. Reminds me of last week with dskeet's new Krink. Some dickhead made a comment about it being illegal until dskeet set him straight (it has a fake can to bring it out to 16). Then after all this he says, "well, that looks like 14 inches to me, not 16." Mind your own f-ing business.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:45:52 PM EDT
I have shot a Chickhominy once before. It took me over an hour to get there. I sometimes go shoot during the day though and when I have the girls at school I am on a pretty limited time schedule. This puts Chickhominy out for regular fun.

Hokie, how far out is the club in York?

Templar, any help would be greatly appreciated. Please send me an email.

Thanks all! I am still very angry.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:50:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Simian:
I have shot a Chickhominy once before. It took me over an hour to get there. I sometimes go shoot during the day though and when I have the girls at school I am on a pretty limited time schedule. This puts Chickhominy out for regular fun.

Hokie, how far out is the club in York?

Templar, any help would be greatly appreciated. Please send me an email.

Thanks all! I am still very angry.



I mapquested the club in York and it seemed about the same distance as Chickahominy. I looked up the one range that Templar mentioned called the conservation park(the former IWLA) and it's also in charles city but A LOT closer. I live on South Side of Richmond/Midlothian(Courthouse and Lucks) and it seemed it would take about a half hour. I'm going to give them a call and see if I can talk to them about getting a membership and a possible tour or something.

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:52:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Punisher:
I had same thing happen to me when I went to renew. It would have been nice to have had some warnning about not being able to pay there. The renewal form said to mail in payment, but it has always said the same thing and they have always took my money there.
I had one of the dudes stop me while I was shooting my 16" midlenght and measure it, said it was very close and that I wouldn't want to be illegal.



I have no problem with the policy, if it is a policy. The problem is the smart assed way in which it was delivered. I have always said that it is his property so the old man can do whatever he wants with it. I have always done everything he asked. But he can also stick it! I wish people would simply have the guts to say what they think and if he doesn't want people there, just say so.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:40:07 PM EDT
Damn I feel for you...I used to live in Richmond, and was very spoiled, because I had a buddy who lived in Midlothian...far enough from any houses to be legal, and we used to fire away in his back yard...It was just out of the city limits, so the cops couldn't say a thing...In fact the local a-hole used to call the cops once in a while...when they showed up, we usually asked them if they wanted to fire off a few rounds, but they always declined, but urged us to continue, because it was legal to do so there. I hope you find a gun range close by..I remember keeping in good practice while I lived there, because the crime rate was pretty high...especially in south Richmond....I lived off of Hull Street right off midlothian parkway...in some crappy apartments...See Ya!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:45:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 3:09:05 PM EDT by IceHandLuke]

Originally Posted By fiend:
I am in the same boat as you. I hate black creek, I went there as a guest with a friend and fired off three rounds real quick and the old guy flipped out on me. Will never go back.

I am also a member of dominion as of now(my girlfriend's mom got me a range pass for x-mas), my friend and I go out to Chickahominy around once a month but it sucks being a 1 hr 15 min drive.

Templar what is this conservation park? Do they have a website? I am dying to find a reliable place around Midlothian/Richmond to shoot in under an hour drive.

ETA Amelia WMA SUCKS. They have 5 stations at the rifle range and you have to shoot through a concrete circle it's loud as HELL!



The old guy is a dumb ass and his son, the burnt out biker wanabe is a fucktard. I hate that place. I have been going for the last year and he always comes down the hill and gives me the talk about how every round needs to hit the target. Even when I am setup with a vice and zero'n a scope. he bitched me out one time for shooting a pistol on the 50 yard range. Even when I hit the target with every round and no one was on the firing line.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:08:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By Simian:
I have shot a Chickhominy once before. It took me over an hour to get there. I sometimes go shoot during the day though and when I have the girls at school I am on a pretty limited time schedule. This puts Chickhominy out for regular fun.

Hokie, how far out is the club in York?

Templar, any help would be greatly appreciated. Please send me an email.

Thanks all! I am still very angry.



I mapquested the club in York and it seemed about the same distance as Chickahominy. I looked up the one range that Templar mentioned called the conservation park(the former IWLA) and it's also in charles city but A LOT closer. I live on South Side of Richmond/Midlothian(Courthouse and Lucks) and it seemed it would take about a half hour. I'm going to give them a call and see if I can talk to them about getting a membership and a possible tour or something.




Fiend,

Maybe we can road trip together. We could see if we could try to get an AR15.com shoot!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:08:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IceHandLuke:


The old guy is a dumb ass and his son, the burnt out biker wanabe is a fucktard. I hate that place.



Buster is a straight toolbag!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:12:12 PM EDT
I started shootin' at Black Creek before the ranges were completed. Used to go there and BS with Kay C at his shop two or three nights a week. He was always nice and helpful to me . That was back in the day when you just showed up to shoot and there was no charge at all for using the range.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:58:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By centralvahunter:
I started shootin' at Black Creek before the ranges were completed. Used to go there and BS with Kay C at his shop two or three nights a week. He was always nice and helpful to me . That was back in the day when you just showed up to shoot and there was no charge at all for using the range.



I think his kid smokes paint chips and the old man has too much lead in his blood stream or something. They are never nice to deal with anymore I think.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:17:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Simian:

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By Simian:
I have shot a Chickhominy once before. It took me over an hour to get there. I sometimes go shoot during the day though and when I have the girls at school I am on a pretty limited time schedule. This puts Chickhominy out for regular fun.

Hokie, how far out is the club in York?

Templar, any help would be greatly appreciated. Please send me an email.

Thanks all! I am still very angry.



I mapquested the club in York and it seemed about the same distance as Chickahominy. I looked up the one range that Templar mentioned called the conservation park(the former IWLA) and it's also in charles city but A LOT closer. I live on South Side of Richmond/Midlothian(Courthouse and Lucks) and it seemed it would take about a half hour. I'm going to give them a call and see if I can talk to them about getting a membership and a possible tour or something.




Fiend,

Maybe we can road trip together. We could see if we could try to get an AR15.com shoot!



Definately, my friend and I will be going out to Chickahominy for sure this upcoming Sunday or next Sunday atfer the gun shows. We usually go to the gun show on Saturday, and then go to the range on Sunday because they are open later on Sunday's, and to try out our new toys or ammo :)

Send me an IM to exchange contact info.

And more on black creek. I had the burned out wanna be biker come talk to us the only day I was there, and he would not SHUT UP. Kept going on and on about BS and drug charges he has had. Him and his Dad, both a bunch of idiots.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:02:31 PM EDT
try rrpc.org,

may be too far for you,

takes me 1-1/2 hrs from chesterfield (near pocahontas)
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:37:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 5:37:52 PM EDT by ZipityDoodah]
At the Va. Beach Gun Show last weekend, a group was advertising a new range in Wakefield, near the airport there. It's off of Rt 460, about one hour from Richmond. That may be an option for folks on the Southside of the James River. They apparently have a a pistol and rifle range and will have a trap/skeet setup soon.

I didn't check it out any closer because we have one here in Suffolk that goes out to 200 meters.

Regards,

Zip
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:39:02 PM EDT
That's a classic KC story. Basically, I believe that anyone that has ever been to Black Creek has some similar story of a run in with KC.

The long running joke is that he only wanted 22 shooters there.

KC consitently seems like he is going to blow a gasket.

He came down to one of the lines and reamed all of us out for letting someone shoot full auto on a Sunday. As we were all members we were all responsible. Funny thing was his son on was the one that check the person's paperwork and approved them on the range. Anway, after being yelled at I excused myself from the range. When I signed out KC son was shaking like a leaf as if KC was going to give him an ass kicking or something. His son was like dag I forgot it was Sunday.........
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:49:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rlc:
try rrpc.org,

may be too far for you,

takes me 1-1/2 hrs from chesterfield (near pocahontas)



Second this idea. That is a top notch organization. Have it all, indoor pistol, outdoor rifle, pistol and shotgun (skeet, trap).

Real good deal, and half price if you live far enough away. Probably worth joining if you only go 3 or 4 times a year!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:45:04 AM EDT
another vote for Lafayette Gun Club.

I'd love to join Cavalier, but I don't know any members to get me onto the 2-year waiting list.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 4:22:29 AM EDT
Simian, man, you are on a now very long list of totally responsible shooters who are equally pissed and fed-up. I can't recall how many guys I have talked to having had virtually the identical experience. And I include myself.

I have maintained a membership at Black Creek since 1993 through this past year, when I allowed it to expire. After 12 years there, I shall not return.

It used to be a casual, relaxed, uncrowded, and inexpensive place to shoot. With time came a gradually increasing (and to some extent reasonably valid) concern for rounds leaving the range, with residential development continuing to encroach on the property. Although it's obvious that Buster and Mom have some major personal problems, Kay had always been easygoing toward me so I tried to remain repectful of his concerns. I could still use different guns on different ranges, shoot from forward of the firing line, do double taps, etc. with my assurance to Kay that I was experienced and sure to get every round into the berm.

Most recently, however, the managment has hyperbolically gone ape-shit! Every time I went during the past couple years I was sure to get chewed out for something. I was either shooting too fast, too loud ("That guns is so loud, the barrel can't be legal length"), shooting the wrong gun on the wrong range....and several other infractions I can't remember. Seemed like there was always some new rule (which they insisted wasn't new) that I was violating. I got the impression they were really just making stuff up on the spot, as they seemed to have developed a sustained confrontational approach to the day-to-day running of the range.

I had always wondered about the long term propsects there, partly with the ongoing development (the range only has 45 acres), but also with Kay getting older and the unlikelyhood of Buster being able to viably take over. Kay isn't the same man he once was, and recent experience indicates that he is developing some significant mental problems. With the overall situation rapidly deteriorating, I am glad to be able to get away now.

In closing Simian, let me reiterate Templar's offer: you're welcome to also be my guest out at Cavalier (just email me if you'd like to link up). Also if you're interested in getting a membership, you need to get on a waiting list, so any permanent relief will be awhile but so would the expenses. Let me know if you want to pursue that.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:59:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackScot:
I had always wondered about the long term propsects there, partly with the ongoing development (the range only has 45 acres), but also with Kay getting older and the unlikelyhood of Buster being able to viably take over. Kay isn't the same man he once was, and recent experience indicates that he is developing some significant mental problems. With the overall situation rapidly deteriorating, I am glad to be able to get away now.

In closing Simian, let me reiterate Templar's offer: you're welcome to also be my guest out at Cavalier (just email me if you'd like to link up). Also if you're interested in getting a membership, you need to get on a waiting list, so any permanent relief will be awhile but so would the expenses. Let me know if you want to pursue that.

I have never had the bad experiences that some other members have but I do have a concern with the long term viability of Black Creek. I too would like to get on the waiting list at Cavalier.

Any sponsors?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:29:17 PM EDT
I joined the Conservation Park of VA in Charles City Co. last year. It costs $250 to join and $200 a year. You have to be sponsored by someone that has been a member at least two years. You can stop by the club house on Sat & Sun to find out more about membership. That's what I did. It's a very nice range.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:59:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bassnbud:
I joined the Conservation Park of VA in Charles City Co. last year. It costs $250 to join and $200 a year. You have to be sponsored by someone that has been a member at least two years. You can stop by the club house on Sat & Sun to find out more about membership. That's what I did. It's a very nice range.



Holy crap that is expensive!
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:57:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bassnbud:
I joined the Conservation Park of VA in Charles City Co. last year. It costs $250 to join and $200 a year. You have to be sponsored by someone that has been a member at least two years. You can stop by the club house on Sat & Sun to find out more about membership. That's what I did. It's a very nice range.



what facilities/hours does it have?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:26:59 AM EDT
I am in the same sinking boat as others here concerning Black Creek. Although I haven't had anyone there bother me lately, I was thinking of re-upping for this year. Sounds like I can't stop by there to drop off my info.
I am near Ashland, so some of the places mentioned aren't really close for me. Cavalier looks to be pretty close, but with the waiting list and all it's not a short term answer.
Are there any places to shoot more on the north/northwest side of Richmond? Travelling to Black Creek wasn't that bad, but if I could find something closer (or at least not too much farther) would be great.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 3:19:17 AM EDT
Sorry to hear about this and I can relate since living in Northern Virginia we have the same problems here.


My post about our own range
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:52:24 PM EDT

I am near Ashland, so some of the places mentioned aren't really close for me.


Hanover Rifle and Pistol Club
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 3:57:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By varoadking:

I am near Ashland, so some of the places mentioned aren't really close for me.


Hanover Rifle and Pistol Club




tell us more?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:42:51 AM EDT
I used to be a member there and have been wanting to renew my membership but just havnt yet. The only reason I use the place now is because it is threw the woods behind my house. I know it is a 5 min drive but never realized it was really that close to me. Basically, I took my garmin with me on some random trails when I was testing out my Iron Hourse (mountain bike) when I got it. When I pulled it up on the pics and overlaid it on the map I found that I was actually somewhere right behind the 15 and 25 yard line when I turned around.

Anyway, I have been down there a number of times and not had problems. Then I have been there an equil number of times and had them. One day we were out there shooting and it was me and another person doing double tap drills. This dude came out and freaked. He then said that we were the cause of all the holes on the board above the targets (all 500 of them) and then we got in a shouting match. That turned out better then I thought it did as he said "well just make sure you hit the back stop if you cant you need to leave" followed by him walking off. We didnt leave because he never told us to but was expecting the blue lights asuming he told us in some cryptic fasion and then called the police because we didnt understand whatever he said.

The son and his personell problems. Well he seems pretty nice but that is only because he is usually high. He was telling me one day about a very nice SKS of his that was deposited in a river in west virginia. Me and a friend of mine just looked at each other. Then he began to talk about want to have it to shoot a "Ford Escort" that he didnt like "or more specificly the two people inside." We then looked at each other and then outside at my buddies ford escort and then back at each other to make sure we were both violating the hot gun policiy. The wife seems really nice and I never had a problem with her at all. Of course the extent of my interaction with her has been when I walk in "hi" she just sits there and shakes a little bit, I walk over and sign the sheet, then go to walk and I always say "thanks" and she shakes some more and that is about the extent of it. She hasnt ever complained about anything.
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