Quoted: Excellent questions have been fielded and I cannot answer all of them but I can find out someone that can. After discussing this with numerous other gun clubs and shooting ranges, it is our best interest to: Incorporate Purchase property Start out small and work our way into hosting shoots and matches to provide funds to cover expenses. Build at least a 200, 300,500, 600 yard range to host everything from long range matches to rattle battles. This would be easy since the range is actually one range with various known ranges, think military rifle range. Most class F matches are 600 yard matches and they charge 25.00 per shooter and have up to 40 shooters. A potential of 1k per month for 100 dollars worth of targets could provide 900.00 dollars extra income per month for the range. Pistol range and the area to host 3 gun matches, pistol ranges are small and take up less room. I have more ideas.

LRT

In your estimate, how much acreage would be required to set up a single 600 yard range along with 2x 300 yard and 3 x 25 yard ranges? This would have to include some buffer(all sides) to guard against encroachment.  Also assume enough land to establish a bunkhouse, equipment storage, and lodging for an onsight manager/caretaker.

What's the holdup?

Quoted: Quoted: Excellent questions have been fielded and I cannot answer all of them but I can find out someone that can. After discussing this with numerous other gun clubs and shooting ranges, it is our best interest to: Incorporate Purchase property Start out small and work our way into hosting shoots and matches to provide funds to cover expenses. Build at least a 200, 300,500, 600 yard range to host everything from long range matches to rattle battles. This would be easy since the range is actually one range with various known ranges, think military rifle range. Most class F matches are 600 yard matches and they charge 25.00 per shooter and have up to 40 shooters. A potential of 1k per month for 100 dollars worth of targets could provide 900.00 dollars extra income per month for the range. Pistol range and the area to host 3 gun matches, pistol ranges are small and take up less room. I have more ideas. LRT In your estimate, how much acreage would be required to set up a single 600 yard range along with 2x 300 yard and 3 x 25 yard ranges? This would have to include some buffer(all sides) to guard against encroachment.  Also assume enough land to establish a bunkhouse, equipment storage, and lodging for an onsight manager/caretaker.

Excellent question,

Military range with 20 targets would take 25 acres with safety buffer zones.

I have been watching but not posting to see what everyone has to say, to have a low impact range we need around 200 acres of property.

This sounds large but after the way some ranges are closed down for various reasons due to property issues this is estimated to be a good way to stave off complaints.

The main reason for a range is for us, no more fishing and hoping that a range stays open for our use.

I'm in for 1k up front.

Quoted:

Excellent question,

Military range with 20 targets would take 25 acres with safety buffer zones.

I have been watching but not posting to see what everyone has to say, to have a low impact range we need around 200 acres of property.

This sounds large but after the way some ranges are closed down for various reasons due to property issues this is estimated to be a good way to stave off complaints.

The main reason for a range is for us, no more fishing and hoping that a range stays open for our use

LRT

I agree that 200 acres would be the bare minimum and still allow potential for growth. I have been looking for rural land in various spots in Virginia (for my own use) for the last several years, so this idea has really piqued my interest.  I know that everyone in the Virginia forum would like to see an AR15.com shooting club with it's own range centrally located to service everyone in NOVA, the Tidewater, and those scattered throughout the state. However, my own experience in looking for land leads me to believe the only places that are affordable and with low risk of legal opposition by neighbors, and future encroachment will be located in SW Virginia, Western Virginia, or South Central Virginia.  Tonight I did a quick search on www.unitedcountry.com using search parameters of 200 acres minimum and a maximum price of $500K. I came up with 16 properties ranging from 325 acres listed at $499K to 250 acres listed at $250K.  These properties were all located in the southern 1/3 of the state. I know there may be land bargains to be had, but nonetheless I believe the listings on United Country are a good indicator of general property values.

I believe, the bottom line here is in order to pull this off members will have to determine.

1. Are they willing to travel as much as 7 hours to shoot (depending on where they live)? I for one would be looking at a 3-4 hour drive from Norfolk to get to most of these places (Clarksville, Chatham, Victoria, Emporia, Dundas, Broadford, Meadowview, Saxe, Stuart, Nelson, Saltville, to name a few places).  I am willing to make that drive.

2. Are they willing to put up $3K minimum. I think it will take this much, because I doubt you will get much more than a 150 members willing to make a cash commitment. Additionally, there is a strong possiblity that actual costs will run higher than estimates requiring members to put out even more money beyond the $3K. Those offering sweat equity may be able to buy their way in based on a work/wage rate, but that would require a lot of hours at say $10/hour (whatever a day laborer union scale would be) or maybe slightly higher if they have a skill such as carpentry, heavy equipment operator, etc.  However, the bottom line is a lot of folks are going to have put up cash to make this a reality. I fear that the idea of buying in to the club through sweat equity alone may not sit well with most. I am sympathetic to those with less funds than myself, but still haven't sorted out a personal position yet. Beyond the land cost is heavy equipment rental (bull dozers, tractors, brush hogs, etc) and construction materials (gravel, culverts, fencing, gates, etc) for site preparation such as land clearing, berm construction, grading, parking lot/camp site/road construction, lighting, security fencing, and possible initial outlay for electric and other utility hookups (septic, water well etc).  Additionally, there would be initial and ongoing costs for range maintenance, (grass cutting, insurance, target materials).  The latter costs could be maintained through annual membership dues.

The club will need to be incorporated and established as some sort of a legal entity with elected management that will periodically meet to establish policy and deal with scheduling and maintenance issues on an ongoing basis.

I would be willing to put up the $3K and pay annual dues.  I really believe we would have to raise nearly $500K in funds to get this going.  Having said this, with 659 Virginia members and likely a lot of North Carolina (Virginia border area) members this may not be that far from being a possibility. I am not a lawyer or a banker, but I believe an escrow account could be established with members depositing whatever is determined as a minimum payment and signing a contract with the club not to demand withdrawal for a one year period (to give the range an opportunity to progress from plan to reality).  It occurs to me that once the property is purchased then the original investment is non-refundable by the club, but the membership could be sold to a new member. I don't know what the banking industries views are on lending to clubs, but I would think if the club had substantial equity in the project, they may be willing to lend a portion of the costs of the range construction with the property itself as collateral.

Just my rambling thoughts.

Quoted: Quoted: Excellent question, Military range with 20 targets would take 25 acres with safety buffer zones. I have been watching but not posting to see what everyone has to say, to have a low impact range we need around 200 acres of property. This sounds large but after the way some ranges are closed down for various reasons due to property issues this is estimated to be a good way to stave off complaints. The main reason for a range is for us, no more fishing and hoping that a range stays open for our use LRT I agree that 200 acres would be the bare minimum and still allow potential for growth. I have been looking for rural land in various spots in Virginia (for my own use) for the last several years, so this idea has really piqued my interest.  I know that everyone in the Virginia forum would like to see an AR15.com shooting club with it's own range centrally located to service everyone in NOVA, the Tidewater, and those scattered throughout the state. However, my own experience in looking for land leads me to believe the only places that are affordable and with low risk of legal opposition by neighbors, and future encroachment will be located in SW Virginia, Western Virginia, or South Central Virginia.  Tonight I did a quick search on www.unitedcountry.com using search parameters of 200 acres minimum and a maximum price of $500K. I came up with 16 properties ranging from 325 acres listed at $499K to 250 acres listed at $250K.  These properties were all located in the southern 1/3 of the state. I know there may be land bargains to be had, but nonetheless I believe the listings on United Country are a good indicator of general property values. I believe, the bottom line here is in order to pull this off members will have to determine. 1. Are they willing to travel as much as 7 hours to shoot (depending on where they live)? I for one would be looking at a 3-4 hour drive from Norfolk to get to most of these places (Clarksville, Chatham, Victoria, Emporia, Dundas, Broadford, Meadowview, Saxe, Stuart, Nelson, Saltville, to name a few places).  I am willing to make that drive. 2. Are they willing to put up $3K minimum. I think it will take this much, because I doubt you will get much more than a 150 members willing to make a cash commitment. Additionally, there is a strong possiblity that actual costs will run higher than estimates requiring members to put out even more money beyond the $3K. Those offering sweat equity may be able to buy their way in based on a work/wage rate, but that would require a lot of hours at say $10/hour (whatever a day laborer union scale would be) or maybe slightly higher if they have a skill such as carpentry, heavy equipment operator, etc.  However, the bottom line is a lot of folks are going to have put up cash to make this a reality. I fear that the idea of buying in to the club through sweat equity alone may not sit well with most. I am sympathetic to those with less funds than myself, but still haven't sorted out a personal position yet. Beyond the land cost is heavy equipment rental (bull dozers, tractors, brush hogs, etc) and construction materials (gravel, culverts, fencing, gates, etc) for site preparation such as land clearing, berm construction, grading, parking lot/camp site/road construction, lighting, security fencing, and possible initial outlay for electric and other utility hookups (septic, water well etc).  Additionally, there would be initial and ongoing costs for range maintenance, (grass cutting, insurance, target materials).  The latter costs could be maintained through annual membership dues. The club will need to be incorporated and established as some sort of a legal entity with elected management that will periodically meet to establish policy and deal with scheduling and maintenance issues on an ongoing basis. I would be willing to put up the $3K and pay annual dues.  I really believe we would have to raise nearly $500K in funds to get this going.  Having said this, with 659 Virginia members and likely a lot of North Carolina (Virginia border area) members this may not be that far from being a possibility. I am not a lawyer or a banker, but I believe an escrow account could be established with members depositing whatever is determined as a minimum payment and signing a contract with the club not to demand withdrawal for a one year period (to give the range an opportunity to progress from plan to reality).  It occurs to me that once the property is purchased then the original investment is non-refundable by the club, but the membership could be sold to a new member. I don't know what the banking industries views are on lending to clubs, but I would think if the club had substantial equity in the project, they may be willing to lend a portion of the costs of the range construction with the property itself as collateral. Just my rambling thoughts.

Excellent thoughts Bladerunner!

In terms of banking / financial instituion support, count on little interest or support on their part. The  financial industry as a whole does not want involvement  with the firearms industry. If you want a good laugh seek a loan to open a gun shop.

With that said, I would count on a range having to be solely funded with cash from the members. Good idea about escrow account and future sales of memberships if someone needed their money back. Some private clubs are set up with stock shares and to be a member you need to own one share. Each share has a value. Don;t think of this like a publically traded stock as much as a way to control membership. Can we say lawyer assistance needed

You also made a good point about location. SW or South Central,VA (not to be confused with South Central, LA )is one of the more affordable areas for acreage needed to support a quality range. Fortuantely many of the people in tht area are country folk who are familiar with firearms. On the otherhand I don;t know how manay would be supportive of EBRs etc. and perhaps more importantly how local LEO may react.

Overall many great ideas shared in this thread overall - keep it going VA crew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can throw in a c-note to help ya'll out.

check www.unitedcountry.com for rural land in virginia

There is no way I could shell out 3k as a college student, but I would be willing to pay as much as I possibly could up front, and do a yearly donation and put my blood and sweat into getting this thing working if it's not far off from central virginia.

Good points, Bladerunner, as well as LRT on the issue of property size.

Quoted: I believe, the bottom line here is in order to pull this off members will have to determine. 1. Are they willing to travel as much as 7 hours to shoot (depending on where they live)? I for one would be looking at a 3-4 hour drive from Norfolk to get to most of these places (Clarksville, Chatham, Victoria, Emporia, Dundas, Broadford, Meadowview, Saxe, Stuart, Nelson, Saltville, to name a few places).  I am willing to make that drive.

I was going to say it wouldn't be that far (I live in Centreville now, with parents in Carroll County, and it only takes ~4 hours...but that's with semi-direct interstate route...south central would be different).  Given a semi-private property with the ability to do the activities we are looking for (long range shooting, ARs/AKs...hopefully some good pistol ranges with reactive targets or ability to practice moving/shooting...etc...) I would be willing to travel given campsite area or rustic lodges to make a weekend.  Fortunately my girlfriend likes to camp, albeit she likes to "campy" camp (aka foo-foo camping, McCamping, pitching a tent inside a Holiday Inn...).  Given that I was considering purchasing my own 20-40 acre of land and was seriously considering up to a 5-hour drive, I'm game for this.

2. Are they willing to put up $3K minimum. I think it will take this much, because I doubt you will get much more than a 150 members willing to make a cash commitment. Additionally, there is a strong possiblity that actual costs will run higher than estimates requiring members to put out even more money beyond the $3K. Those offering sweat equity may be able to buy their way in based on a work/wage rate, but that would require a lot of hours at say $10/hour (whatever a day laborer union scale would be) or maybe slightly higher if they have a skill such as carpentry, heavy equipment operator, etc.  However, the bottom line is a lot of folks are going to have put up cash to make this a reality. I fear that the idea of buying in to the club through sweat equity alone may not sit well with most. I am sympathetic to those with less funds than myself, but still haven't sorted out a personal position yet. Beyond the land cost is heavy equipment rental (bull dozers, tractors, brush hogs, etc) and construction materials (gravel, culverts, fencing, gates, etc) for site preparation such as land clearing, berm construction, grading, parking lot/camp site/road construction, lighting, security fencing, and possible initial outlay for electric and other utility hookups (septic, water well etc).  Additionally, there would be initial and ongoing costs for range maintenance, (grass cutting, insurance, target materials).  The latter costs could be maintained through annual membership dues.

Very important point here.  I sincerely appreciate the fact that some may not have a large sum to front for this (myself included), but the honest point is that there are a lot of financial pieces involved (and indeed are probably the most significant given that we're trying to plan this instead of shooting on our own 40 acre ranges).  However, although I think the above list is becoming comprehensive of the totals involved, I think a nibble approach would be very appropriate here.  We're not building a business.  I believe that the final point is that we go, shoot, cook meat, have fun.  Starting with a minimalist approach may not be a bad idea.  Land, administrative (contracts, insurance, etc...), berms, gravel.  That list may still be too simple, but you get the point.  Lots of room for others to contribute sweat equity and make continual improvements.  May even be easier to manage, but have to ensure someone is always "prodding" so things don't go unfinished.  I would argue that electric, sewer/plumbing, etc... could hold off for a while unless they were highly desirable.  I don't mind a tent and solar shower, though upon second though serious matches may require some comforts.  I would suggest that at least initially consumables (targets, etc...) be provided by the shooters.

The club will need to be incorporated and established as some sort of a legal entity with elected management that will periodically meet to establish policy and deal with scheduling and maintenance issues on an ongoing basis.

Meaning a lawyer is probably necessary early in the equation.  I'm sure there is one around here somewhere.  

Good notes on the account, financing, etc....  I'm not experienced in that area and can't lend much info there.

Interesting project for sure!

LRT you never cease to amaze me.  We talked about this at blastfest.  I told you then and Ill tell you now.  As much as I canhelp with I will.  Work is busy but if you need help cleaning things up or clearing land or help building things I am sure that Highwayman can help as well.


DRUFF

FYI,

I saw 400 acres for sale today between Wingina and Howardsville in Nelson Co. today. Very close to the James River.

Danny

P.S. This is in BFE - IMO.

Quoted: FYI, I saw 400 acres for sale today between Wingina and Howardsville in Nelson Co. today. Very close to the James River. Danny P.S. This is in BFE - IMO.

Danny

BFE is the perfect place for a range like this. It sounds like a perfect spot, nearer to Richmond not far from I64 and much closer to the DC area.

How much did they want for it?  It just occurred to me that a "club" might be able to work some type of owner financing deal that would greatly reduce the upfront costs.

Quoted: Quoted: FYI, I saw 400 acres for sale today between Wingina and Howardsville in Nelson Co. today. Very close to the James River. Danny P.S. This is in BFE - IMO. Danny BFE is the perfect place for a range like this. It sounds like a perfect spot, nearer to Richmond not far from I64 and much closer to the DC area. How much did they want for it?  It just occurred to me that a "club" might be able to work some type of owner financing deal that would greatly reduce the upfront costs.

wasn't there a big lawsuit filed by land owners in nelson against a hunting preserve that was also having sporting clays and skeet shoots on the land??
and anyone know what the outcome was??

Quoted: Quoted: FYI, I saw 400 acres for sale today between Wingina and Howardsville in Nelson Co. today. Very close to the James River. Danny P.S. This is in BFE - IMO. Danny BFE is the perfect place for a range like this. It sounds like a perfect spot, nearer to Richmond not far from I64 and much closer to the DC area. How much did they want for it?  It just occurred to me that a "club" might be able to work some type of owner financing deal that would greatly reduce the upfront costs.

I'll see if I can find out.

Danny

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FYI, I saw 400 acres for sale today between Wingina and Howardsville in Nelson Co. today. Very close to the James River. Danny P.S. This is in BFE - IMO. Danny BFE is the perfect place for a range like this. It sounds like a perfect spot, nearer to Richmond not far from I64 and much closer to the DC area. How much did they want for it?  It just occurred to me that a "club" might be able to work some type of owner financing deal that would greatly reduce the upfront costs. wasn't there a big lawsuit filed by land owners in nelson against a hunting preserve that was also having sporting clays and skeet shoots on the land?? and anyone know what the outcome was??

That is with Orion and that is several miles away from this place. I don't know what is happening with Orion (even though my Cousin is a Manager there).

Across the James River is Buckingham and things seem different over there.

I'll do some checking.

Danny

I called just now.

400 acres, 2 adjoining properties. Paved road frontage, managed forest that backs up to Westvaco land, gentle rolling hills, no buildings, streams, springs and view of Blue Ridge mountains.

Asking $850,000

Wow!

Nelson is being overrun by wealthier folks who like the pastoral lifestyle combined with property value protections: "real estate covenant nazis" IOW.
Buckingham won't be developed unless they widen Rte. 20 north to a double lane. It doesn't have the commuting potential of Nelson County. That would make a good place for a range.
That said, I'm satisfied with Rivanna Rifle and Pistol Club. $75 per year, 100 and 300yd ranges+indoor pistol,plinking range (30yds FA allowed with prior approval) skeet and trap,and it's only 5 miles south of Charlottesville. No waiting list that I know of,unlike many of the ranges slightly further north and east. There are also provisions for a cheaper membership with the same access rights provided  that you live further away from Cville.

Quoted: Nelson is being overrun by wealthier folks who like the pastoral lifestyle combined with property value protections: "real estate covenant nazis" IOW. Buckingham won't be developed unless they widen Rte. 20 north to a double lane. It doesn't have the commuting potential of Nelson County. That would make a good place for a range. That said, I'm satisfied with Rivanna Rifle and Pistol Club. $75 per year, 100 and 300yd ranges+indoor pistol,plinking range (30yds FA allowed with prior approval) skeet and trap,and it's only 5 miles south of Charlottesville. No waiting list that I know of,unlike many of the ranges slightly further north and east. There are also provisions for a cheaper membership with the same access rights provided  that you live further away from Cville.

i've been a member of rivanna for about 10 years, even though i live in chesterfield,
i used to shoot high power every month, however my current job doesn't allow the saturday's off to do it now,
prior approval for FA?? i was certified at the club (lucky # 13) and shoot whenever i please without any problems,

as far as  the suit against orion,
i spoke to the pharmacist where i work today, her husband works there, teaches and runs the sporting clays portion, she says they are currently only allowed to have hunts, (pheasant yesterday) but are not allowed to shoot clays until it is resolved,

i worry about a similar situation happening to rivanna, esp since they started building that subdevelopment on old lynchburg road near 64

I'm in with money, time and sweat.

I'll even offer my programming/system architect skills if we need any applications, databases and/or a website.

Quoted: If this is gonna happen 2-3+ hrs from NOVA, please consider a bunk house... nothing special, but somewhere to stay overnight to make a weekend of the visit.....

An excellent idea!

bump

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FYI, I saw 400 acres for sale today between Wingina and Howardsville in Nelson Co. today. Very close to the James River. Danny P.S. This is in BFE - IMO. Danny BFE is the perfect place for a range like this. It sounds like a perfect spot, nearer to Richmond not far from I64 and much closer to the DC area. How much did they want for it?  It just occurred to me that a "club" might be able to work some type of owner financing deal that would greatly reduce the upfront costs. wasn't there a big lawsuit filed by land owners in nelson against a hunting preserve that was also having sporting clays and skeet shoots on the land?? and anyone know what the outcome was?? That is with Orion and that is several miles away from this place. I don't know what is happening with Orion (even though my Cousin is a Manager there). Across the James River is Buckingham and things seem different over there. I'll do some checking. Danny I called just now. 400 acres, 2 adjoining properties. Paved road frontage, managed forest that backs up to Westvaco land, gentle rolling hills, no buildings, streams, springs and view of Blue Ridge mountains. Asking $850,000 Wow!

How much land in timber?  Seriously though, a few well timed timber sales could cut a significant chunk out of that $850K  I just missed a sale yesterday. 9 acres of timber sold for $30,000

Quoted: Nelson is being overrun by wealthier folks who like the pastoral lifestyle combined with property value protections: "real estate covenant nazis" IOW. Buckingham won't be developed unless they widen Rte. 20 north to a double lane. It doesn't have the commuting potential of Nelson County. That would make a good place for a range. That said, I'm satisfied with Rivanna Rifle and Pistol Club. $75 per year, 100 and 300yd ranges+indoor pistol,plinking range (30yds FA allowed with prior approval) skeet and trap,and it's only 5 miles south of Charlottesville. No waiting list that I know of,unlike many of the ranges slightly further north and east. There are also provisions for a cheaper membership with the same access rights provided  that you live further away from Cville.

Buckingham isn't a bad place to live, esp. if you are a country bumpkin like me.

I would be in for $500 per year for a nice long range in CENTRAL V.A.

Richmond area, Goochland, South Richmond Amelia,  anywhere within 30 -1 hour of Richmond.

That would be great for me, and about 20 other local guys that I know.

Quoted: I would be in for $500 per year for a nice long range in CENTRAL V.A. Richmond area, Goochland, South Richmond Amelia,  anywhere within 30 -1 hour of Richmond. That would be great for me, and about 20 other local guys that I know.

Here in lies the problem,. Dont get me wrong, I love shooting, I love the VA forum, hell I even love crusty ole LRT. But for the average arfcomer 3k a year is a sizable bag of coinage. 3k itself isnt a deal breaker for me, Its the drive, Granted im in northwestern Va but a 4 hour one way would require me to roll out at 6-7am, arrive at 10-11am shoot maybe 4-5 hours and get back home around 10-11pm. Not something I want or can do every weekend. and for 3k Id like to shoot every weekend. Sorry just being honest...............Udog

This dream could become a reality if more of you lived in WV, land is still fairly cheap, and a lot cheaper than NOVA.  I know, I know, I know WV is still a trip for most of you guys but it might be a good place to start.

Quoted: This dream could become a reality if more of you lived in WV, land is still fairly cheap, and a lot cheaper than NOVA.  I know, I know, I know WV is still a trip for most of you guys but it might be a good place to start.

True about the property value in WV, I know in my home town you can buy a house for nothing in comparison to around the Northern Virginia area.

Know anyone with a strip pit?

.

I can lend my knowqledge in 1000+ yard unknown distance sniper range construction.  I can also layout a really cool "hogan's alley" style interactive target design and oversee construction of it.  

Just let me know what you need LRT.... you know I'm there for ya.  

Mike

If land could be secured, than a RKI Arfcomer who knows about this kind of thing might explore conservation tax credits for the property.  This is something I am learning about and it seems to generate big tax benifits for those owners of large parcels who don't want to develop it.

I am all for using the NRA's considerable experience with development, insurance, etc.  However, the NRA also has some VERY out-of-date "model range rules" (just a suggested model). What could possibly be wrong with those rules?

1) No humanoid targets. Did you know its wrong to shoot at anything shaped like a torso or a person? (even those Bin Laden targets).  The NRA hosts many many PPC (Police competition) shoots that you, even though you are an NRA member, are banned from shooting because PPC uses a humanoid targets (OK for police to shoot at those targets, but its wrong for you to do so - even though you have a CCW).  This model NRA rule also conveniently eliminates the 4 largest shooting activities NOT controlled by the NRA: IDPA, USPSA (IPSC), CAS and the various 3/gun or multigun like the now-defunct Soldier of Fortune annual shoot.  Are humanoid targets bad? I do not think so. Too bad the NRA does not agree.

2) No Rapid Fire. One must pay attention to safety, to be certain. However, the "no rapid fire" rule if often used against those of us with ARs and other guns that even other gun owners find "offensive".  Sometimes it is written as: "one shot per second". Anyone shooting the above sports knows that we can shoot accurately & safely much faster than that.

There are a few other NRA model rules that I have some problems with, but thought I'd toss these out first & see what you guys think. Range sounds like a great idea.

Regards,

D.

I can help if it is in Central VA.

I usually shoot at jefferson natioanl forest, but I would pay yearly dues for a private arfcom range with no idiots and "gangsta" shooters.

Quoted: I am all for using the NRA's considerable experience with development, insurance, etc.  However, the NRA also has some VERY out-of-date "model range rules" (just a suggested model). What could possibly be wrong with those rules? 1) No humanoid targets. Did you know its wrong to shoot at anything shaped like a torso or a person? (even those Bin Laden targets).  The NRA hosts many many PPC (Police competition) shoots that you, even though you are an NRA member, are banned from shooting because PPC uses a humanoid targets (OK for police to shoot at those targets, but its wrong for you to do so - even though you have a CCW).  This model NRA rule also conveniently eliminates the 4 largest shooting activities NOT controlled by the NRA: IDPA, USPSA (IPSC), CAS and the various 3/gun or multigun like the now-defunct Soldier of Fortune annual shoot.  Are humanoid targets bad? I do not think so. Too bad the NRA does not agree. 2) No Rapid Fire. One must pay attention to safety, to be certain. However, the "no rapid fire" rule if often used against those of us with ARs and other guns that even other gun owners find "offensive".  Sometimes it is written as: "one shot per second". Anyone shooting the above sports knows that we can shoot accurately & safely much faster than that. There are a few other NRA model rules that I have some problems with, but thought I'd toss these out first & see what you guys think. Range sounds like a great idea. Regards, D.

The NRA doesn't do this for free either. I believe they offer a valuable service and need to be compensated for their efforts and agree the below fees aren't necessarily exorbitant. However, I don't want anyone to think that the NRA offers these services for free. This effort would cost some serious money, such as I outlined on page 3 of this thread. I strongly believe it will take $500K(~) to get a decent range going.

The NRA's consultation charges are listed below.

Range Development and Operations Conference $395.00  NRA Range Development and Operations Conference

NRA Technical Team
Range Technical Team, on site assistance $100.00 case origination fee then $100.00 per day plus transportation, lodging, and meal costs for the team.

Does anyone know the status of the rock quary on 29?  That would be an ideal range once the quary is tapped out.  No stray bullets escaping, no chance of it being developed, pre-fab buildings etc. etc.  You could probably do a 30-year lease instead of a purchase as well.  

Disclaimer:  I know very little about commercial real estate.

G

Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone know the status of the rock quary on 29?  That would be an ideal range once the quary is tapped out.  No stray bullets escaping, no chance of it being developed, pre-fab buildings etc. etc.  You could probably do a 30-year lease instead of a purchase as well.   Disclaimer:  I know very little about commercial real estate. G Who owns the quarry, and where exactly is it. Luck Stone, Vulcan Materials and Martin Marietta are the three big ones. I run seismographs at quarries, so I can check into it but I have to know some more particulars.

Does that involve tannerite?

Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone know the status of the rock quary on 29?  That would be an ideal range once the quary is tapped out.  No stray bullets escaping, no chance of it being developed, pre-fab buildings etc. etc.  You could probably do a 30-year lease instead of a purchase as well.   Disclaimer:  I know very little about commercial real estate. G Who owns the quarry, and where exactly is it. Luck Stone, Vulcan Materials and Martin Marietta are the three big ones. I run seismographs at quarries, so I can check into it but I have to know some more particulars.

If it's the one I remember, it's Luck Stone.  Not sure of the address, but Rt. 29 probably near Gainsville??

Edit:  I think this is it:  Luck Stone Centreville, VA  The address on the previous page lists 15717 Lee Hwy, Centreville.

"but Rt. 29 probably near Gainsville?"

Correct.

G

The 29 quarry would be a good place but I would not even bet it will be closed anytime in our future, I am looking for a place where we can go with no restrictions so any standing gun club is out of the question.

I had a few properties that I looked at and I do have a realtor looking for land, this is not just a conversation folks and we need a place.

Yeh we need a good range in Va that doesnt have a crabby old guy that comes out and sais "you are shooting too fast" or "If you are going to shoot it here I have to inspect your paperwork" like he could understand what it sais on it. Oh and did I forget the dude that sits in there with the red glazed over eyes and has the odor that resembles burnt green plant material.

Anyway, a quary would be a nice option for distance shooting and would be worth the investment of a 308 after I get over this NFA kick that I am on.  A nice gong setup at 100, 200, 300, 400, 600, 800, and 1000 meters would be sweet. Oh yeh and lets not forget (if it would actually get out to 1000 meters) the 1000meter gong has to withstand 50bmg.

"A nice gong setup at 100, 200, 300, 400, 600, 800, and 1000 meters would be sweet."


- yep. That is another one that typical NRA-model ranges don't like: steel targets. However, steel is safely used all the time in multigun & 3gun as well as USPSA (IPSC) GSSF, IDPA, SASS, etc. At Blackwater last weekend, there was range after range full of steel targets.  The old timers need to get over their irrational fear of steel targets.

"Oh yeh and lets not forget (if it would actually get out to 1000 meters) the 1000meter gong has to withstand 50bmg. "

-that too. I have no patience for so called "pro-gun" ranges that self impose a ban on the .50 cal without a solid reason.