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Posted: 9/15/2003 10:44:34 AM EDT
Saturday night, I discovered just how dangerous the VA law is with regard to carrying in bars. I walked out of my house and started walking to a bar across the street. I remembered the prohibtion against carrying in a bar so I turned around and dropped the Seecamp on my dresser and went to the bar.

Well, all was fine and I met a nice young lady. She was there with her brother and his girlfriend. Everything was going nicely and I walked back to their place for a cup of coffee.

That's when the trouble started.

Brother thought I was hitting on his girlfriend and snapped. He left the room, only to return with a Ruger Old Army (its a cap and ball revolver in .44 cal). He was waiving it around like an idiot, thinking he was showing me who was boss. I stood there, unarmed and talked him down. Fortunately, I was able to cool things down enough for him to leave the room, at which point I thanked the lovely lady and excused myself for a short walk home.

Now, I could see that the revolver he had didn't have a cap and I could see the chambers were not loaded. I was in no danger as far as that gun was concerned. But what if he had brandished a 9mm Sig? What if I were not able to talk him down? I would have been screwed because I was stupid enough to obey the friggin law!

How can we get this changed?
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 12:47:22 PM EDT
Jesus Cliffy.....pretty hairy story.

Remind me to pack my 870 if we ever go out for a beer or anything......
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 2:55:11 PM EDT
Yep, Feel the same way:Bullshit....I thought the VCDL was trying to repeal that?.....UNDERDOG
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 6:54:35 PM EDT
Cliffy, do not dwell on what could have happened. I for one am thankfull that this situation turned out well and we are not bailing your ass out of jail or raising law funds. Good to hear you kept your cool buddy....
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 6:57:36 PM EDT
yeah, imagine had you had your gun.....you may have drawn down too quick to recognize all that other jazz about it being unloaded etc.....I know had I had gun on belt and saw Threat level jump from white to BLACK.....

I might have been reaching for MY gun.

Way to stay cool, keep your head and talk your way out of the sticky situation without ventilating the asshole with a ballpoint pen.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 7:16:55 PM EDT
Ditto what Whisper said. You kept your head and walked away from a fucked up situation.

Having worked many years in bars as the "bouncer", nothing is worse than a alcohol+stupid guy(not you)+women=bad shit.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 7:40:37 PM EDT
Glad to hear that you walked away in the end. It's these kinds of stories that keep me from going to bars in the first place. Well, that and the fact I live in a county with no bars.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 9:46:20 AM EDT
Having a CCW does a few things for me. It actually makes me less agressive. I know that I have in my possession the means to end a life. I know that if I pull it, I will probably use it. If I use it, somebody will most likely die. Therefore, I don't consider pulling it unless I am certain somebody need to be dead.

I've never needed to pull it but I've given it a lot of thought. I am certain that I would pull it if presented with a clear and present danger.

The situation Saturday night would have been interesting. The instant I saw the gun, I focused on it, looking for clues as to what it was. I was pretty damned drunk, but even in this condition, I quickly recognized it and set about ascertaining the level of threat. Even though the guy was an idiot, I've got to say that he never did cover me with the muzzle. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have pulled a gun, even if I had one. I've talked my way out of more fights and confrontations that I care to admit. In fact, I've never been in an actual fist fight due to this. I'm a salesman by trade and a good one at that. Talking people into and out of courses of action are what I do for a living and it has served me well.

Still though... if that Old Army had been a 226, I'd be shitting my pants and wishing I were armed.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 12:04:41 PM EDT
The good lord above is funny that way.....Learn all you can from the situation,and move on....Under the influence and CCW,,Definitely would have had some 'splaning to do..........Be safe........UNDERDOG
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 12:21:06 PM EDT
I agree, cliffy, carrying a gun makes most sane people more likely to avoid a confrontation. Once you realize that getting into a pissing contest could cost someone their life, your maturity kicks up a notch. Of course, being in OH, I never carry.

If it had been me, I would probably not have been armed in the young lady's house, anyway, or I would have asked her before entering. I sure as hell wouldn't want someone carrying in my house without my knowledge.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 12:45:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:


If it had been me, I would probably not have been armed in the young lady's house, anyway, or I would have asked her before entering. I sure as hell wouldn't want someone carrying in my house without my knowledge.



Yeah, well, believe it or not, I didn't intend to go out trolling that night. I just went in for dinner and a drink and to listen to folks make idiots of themselves on the Kareoke machine. I hadn't thawed anything out to eat at home. Funny how things like this happen. Besides that, the Seecamp fits nicely in the hip pocket. There is little chance it would have been detected... even if she did grab my arse, its in a wallet style holster.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 4:08:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2003 4:09:01 PM EDT by RobertM]
Could have been a Glock them dang thangs blow up all by them selfs
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 7:31:34 PM EDT
VCDL is working on this. It appears that the restaurant's association is the largest opposition to the change. There have been several e-mails on the VCDL alert list exposing the ignorance of many restaurant owners regarding the law. Ignorance was so thick that the VCDL had the VA ABC and state police write letters (posted on the VCDL web site for printing) that you can show to restaurant owners when you are legally carrying openly.

You can go the open carry route, but I don't think the prohibition of carrying while under the influence of alcohol applies to only concealed carry.

It appears that progress is being made, but there is much work to be done.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 4:13:50 PM EDT
not the best situation to be in but you seem to have handed it good..
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 12:30:48 PM EDT
Yeah yeah yeah..but admit it cliffy you were going after bros GF weren't ya

Of course good thing you didn't pull out that itty bitty .32, you wouldn't have looked too good against the other guys .44 cap and ball.

Glad you're okay.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 6:00:16 AM EDT
The season is approaching. More info on a new "Restaraunt Ban Repeal" bill will be available soon.

It's a tough battle.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:15:53 AM EDT
glad you made it out safe man. now be a good boy and don't drive by that house no more. and be a good boy and don't party too much. i have seen good people gone stupid when drinking. as soon as that liquor level hit the fan, all that safety firearm practice would gone fishing.

this may be a reason why the law doesn't like people to carry in the bar. actually, the law may be looking out for us for a change. there is a drawback in any good law. what if you get robbed on the way from from the bar. how will you defense yourself. if you got a gun, yes you can do that. however, you won't be able to defend youself from the true monster; the prosecutor. it is hard to explain you act in good consent when you are loaded with beer and ammo.

this is why i stop going to bar or party with folks i don't know much. i got into trouble before because people got drunk and got into fight. well, when things clear up, i was the only one got arrested. i learned my lesson and don't hang out with people like that anymore. i quite drinking too because it was beer that made my defense "i didn't do it" not stick. in addition, that county got some of the finest racists i have ever known.

anyhooo. glad you made it out ok because i ddin't.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:18:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By asianthug47:
this may be a reason why the law doesn't like people to carry in the bar. actually, the law may be looking out for us for a change. there is a drawback in any good law. what if you get robbed on the way from from the bar. how will you defense yourself. if you got a gun, yes you can do that. however, you won't be able to defend youself from the true monster; the prosecutor. it is hard to explain you act in good consent when you are loaded with beer and ammo.



Well, here's the thing. It is already illegal to posess a firearm while under the influence. Also, there is no such thing as a "bar" in VA. This law covers every establishment that is licensed by ABC for on-premesis consumption (with one exception/gray area, but I won't go there right now).

Anyway, the point is that since it is illegal to posess a firearm while under the influence (which has no defined BAC limit that I am aware of), anyone who got drunk in a bar while carrying concealed would be breaking the law regardless of any statute on CCW in restaraunts.

It's a stupid law, and it needs to go. There are plenty of people who go to restaraunts and don't drink alcohol. But remember everyone...you can open-carry into them (unless it's posted that you can't, or they ask you to leave)!
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