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Posted: 9/5/2010 11:50:10 PM EDT
[#1]
That looks like a great inovation to further security for a home. I contacted them by e-mail and hope to hear more about the product and installers close by my town. Thanks for the heads up on that product!
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:54:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Interesting product.
Has anyone ever seen a 3M product that was not top-notch? |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 8:15:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
That looks like a great inovation to further security for a home. I contacted them by e-mail and hope to hear more about the product and installers close by my town. Thanks for the heads up on that product! Did you try their locate a dealer feature? http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solutions/Support/Find_a_Dealer/ |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 10:00:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Yes, there are a few around here. But if anybody is likely to have experience with one of them, it's probably this crowd. That's why I asked. :)
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Posted: 9/6/2010 12:10:29 PM EDT
[#5]
While I think they're great from a home safety standpoint, I have to wonder what effect they'll have under fire conditions - not so much from a flammability standpoint but from a lack of venting (both from heat and ventilation by us)..
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Posted: 9/6/2010 12:24:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
While I think they're great from a home safety standpoint, I have to wonder what effect they'll have under fire conditions - not so much from a flammability standpoint but from a lack of venting (both from heat and ventilation by us).. Good point. They just put the big $$$ blast resistant variety in a few buildings I work in, so I assumed they worked the fire safety issues out. The films seem resistant to relatively large scale bowing forces, like blast, wind and impact. The glass still breaks, but the film keeps it in the frame. A fire axe would be a cutting force along a very narrow area, I suspect it would cut the film. I've never seen residential construction firefighters couldn't brute force their way into in less than 30 seconds. Film on the window? Just go through the wall - problem solved. . :) |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 12:25:37 PM EDT
[#7]
A place I worked at considered a similar product, marketed at that time as an anti-vandalism tool. (The film took the etching, etc., sparing the glass.)
We stopped looking into it when we found that it had a marked impact on visibility, scratched during normal use/cleaning and had some peeling issues. The fact that it cost more than the glass it was 'saving' was a sort of a problem, too. :) OTOH, they may have improved it greatly; this was 10 years ago or so. Larry |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 5:57:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Midwest Glass & Trim is a family owned company with a golden reputation that's been in the same location for 30+ years. Contact Ron Mueller there. If he does it, it'll be done right. If he doesn't, he'll guide towards who does.
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:41:47 PM EDT
[#9]
It's about $4 a square foot and there was a place in Lombard, but I don't remember.
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Posted: 9/6/2010 7:57:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
That looks like a great inovation to further security for a home. I contacted them by e-mail and hope to hear more about the product and installers close by my town. Thanks for the heads up on that product! Did you try their locate a dealer feature? http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solutions/Support/Find_a_Dealer/ Yes I did, thank you...so now I'm going to wait and see what I learn. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 7:57:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Interesting product. Has anyone ever seen a 3M product that was not top-notch? You are right there. And alot of their products are still made in the U.S.of A. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 12:22:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Good point. They just put the big $$$ blast resistant variety in a few buildings I work in, so I assumed they worked the fire safety issues out. Sprinklered building by chance? The films seem resistant to relatively large scale bowing forces, like blast, wind and impact. The glass still breaks, but the film keeps it in the frame. A fire axe would be a cutting force along a very narrow area, I suspect it would cut the film. I've never seen residential construction firefighters couldn't brute force their way into in less than 30 seconds. Film on the window? Just go through the wall - problem solved. . :)
Oh, I know most ways in and out of a building... it's just that a lot of FD's might sit there with the  if they whack the window with a pike and it breaks but stays there. 
And the idea of breaking the windows is to make the damage easily (relative term) repairable.  
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Posted: 9/7/2010 1:55:41 PM EDT
[#13]
The stuff I saw would cut/pierce with no problem. It's only a plastic film, after all-an edge or point just goes right through, in a sort of mega-saran wrap sort of way.
And I agree-most firefighers I know would just enjoy the added challenge. :) Larry |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:09:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
While I think they're great from a home safety standpoint, I have to wonder what effect they'll have under fire conditions - not so much from a flammability standpoint but from a lack of venting (both from heat and ventilation by us).. Unless you have direct flame impingement or heat in the room to the product melting point, it's going to be a PITA. Venting will involve opening (but that takes the fun out), or taking out frames to get out as a single unit. On the brightside, it won't be sandwiched between glass. As for being challenged by different strategies, there are enough to deal with let alone adding extra time to vent a window. It's supposed to be quick and easy until the slow truckes can vent the roof
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Posted: 9/8/2010 12:25:42 PM EDT
[#15]
See? This is why I threw this question out to the crowd. Not only did I get good information about the actual topic, I learned something I didn't know regarding unintended consequences and sparked a little smack-talking among the FFs.
I'm not that worried about fire, actually. We actually have multiple plans to get out. The home inspector I used when we bought the house was a FF doing a side job. When he came down from the attic he had two things to say. The first was that the dryer vent was the only one he had ever seen actually built properly and to code. The second was that if there was ever a fire, get the hell out at a dead run. Something about the roof joist construction being legal, but if it ever burned the roof would come down in a heartbeat. I just focused on the "get the hell out" part and took that to heart. He said it's actually quite common construction. Tango7: Yes, the buildings with the blast-resistant films are sprinklered. Check your IM for details. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:37:13 PM EDT
[#16]
I have an rep from J&J Inc. out of Springfield coming to our house in two weeks to talk to us more about the 3M product. If it impresses us enough I'm going to ask for a bid to do our windows. Let you all know later.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 4:39:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
alot of their products are still made in the U.S.of A. The make the best bandages at the moment, including one kind made from duct tape. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 6:55:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Hoffsoft- The inspector was most likely referring to lightweight roof trusses. While the trusses allow nice long spans of ceilings, they are attached with very thin metal or plastic attachment plates. When one fails, the whole truss fails, and quickly.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 7:37:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Hoffsoft- The inspector was most likely referring to lightweight roof trusses. While the trusses allow nice long spans of ceilings, they are attached with very thin metal or plastic attachment plates. When one fails, the whole truss fails, and quickly. This is an example of a truss roof collapse in Palatine. Fortunately the Batt Chief understood the construction and evacuated companies. Just thought I'd share. 
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Posted: 9/9/2010 2:01:53 PM EDT
[#20]
WorstCaseScenario: Thanks for sharing and caring. You really know how to brighten up somebody's day.
It's a little scary that the technique is allowed in residential construction. If I hadn't been told, I never would have known. I can only guess at what else contractors are allowed to get away with. But back on topic... I have a few calls out, I'll keep everybody updated. |
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Posted: 9/9/2010 3:05:24 PM EDT
[#21]
+1 for lightweight construction, probably 24" o.c. joists.
The problem is that the truss manufacturers sold the concept of the truss (and lam-beam and engineered I-ben) to the AHJ's (Authorities Having Jurisdiction, ie the cities and towns) and the agencies that compile the Codes basing the superior performance on non-fire behavior, which (admittedly) is 99.999 of the uses it will be found it. Add the savings in materials and labor and it seemed like a "win-win"... stronger materials with cost savings. The problem is that the difference is so dramatic when exposed to fire conditions that lightweight construction bears little resemblance at all to traditional "stick" built construction. While stronger, the increase in strength allows for architects to specify fewer structural members; cost considerations means the architects will design exactly to capacity with no "over-engineering", reducing the ability for the other members to assume the load should one fail. The result? A single engineered member fails... the other engineered members, weakened by heat and already at their maximum designed loads, cannot hold any more and buckle. Floor, roof.... it's a killer. Sorry - we now return you to the thread already in progress. |
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Posted: 9/9/2010 7:48:30 PM EDT
[#22]
I almost lost my ass and crew a year ago last week when a hidden truss roof came down 1 min after we left the building. That makes three near misses in my career with trusses.
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