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Posted: 3/15/2006 2:47:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 7:05:24 PM EDT by ghostwalker]
ISRA President said at lobby day that he has concerns that the anti's are pushing for HB2414 advancement. That they may even be planning a march either in Springfield or Chicago this weekend together support for the bill.

Todd Vandermyde says we should watch what we say in the forums concerning the different bills and how we discuss them.

In other words, the forums (pro-gun) are being watched by the other side for possible intelligence for their benefit.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:07:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ghostwalker:
ISRA President said at lobby day that he has concerns that the anti's are pushing for HB2414 advancement. That they may even be planning a march either in Springfield or Chicago this weekend in support of the bill.

Todd Vandermyde says we should watch what we say in the forums concerning the different bills and how we discuss them.

In other words, the forums (pro-gun) are being watched by the other side for possible intelligence for their benefit.

I don't buy that they're watching our forums? If they are, let them watch...we're exercising our 1st Amendment in these forums, and our 2nd when we go to the range. What kind of intelligence are they possibly going to glean from our forums?? I don't get it...perhaps I'm missing something.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:56:12 PM EDT
The reasoning behind the request to keep chit chat down is that they can get real information from our inteligent discourse. While all they have is knee jerk reaction and feel good,idiotic and nonsensical arguments. In other words if we point out what are obvious problems to us,with brains,with their bill we are potentialy helping them make amendment 8 9 10 until they get one that might pass.btw I was reading this forum for some time before I signed on to keep up on local issues that I could not find thru other sources so to me it makes sense to me that the antis might as well. imho
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:04:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Corum:
The reasoning behind the request to keep chit chat down is that they can get real information from our inteligent discourse. While all they have is knee jerk reaction and feel good,idiotic and nonsensical arguments. In other words if we point out what are obvious problems to us,with brains,with their bill we are potentialy helping them make amendment 8 9 10 until they get one that might pass.btw I was reading this forum for some time before I signed on to keep up on local issues that I could not find thru other sources so to me it makes sense to me that the antis might as well. imho




100% correct.


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Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:08:43 AM EDT
I disagree. The problem with Liberal arguments is that they are based on emotion, and circumstance, not fact, not logic. We have facts, truth, and logic on our side and as long as we're able to keep emotion and circumstance OUT of the debate and focus on logic, facts about CCW (as an example), we win every time. The statistics are on our side, and they can't change that. What they can attempt to do is focus on circumstances (little girl gets shot through window by gangbanger), and emotion (mother of girl grieving over her loss).

Facts, statistics, and the truth are all on our side...keep the focus on those and we win every time.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:35:34 AM EDT
I agree that we've got the reasoned and rational arguments. But if they take our arguments and ameliorate the AWB bill to make it more palatable to the legislators (and their constituents) then we're worse off than if mouths were kept shut at least on strategy and the specific things in the bill that we have problems with.

In the end, we want no AWB at all. Unfortunately there are probably a lot of hunters and casual handgun owners who are "on the fence" so to speak on the AWB, but right now are against it. If the antis "fix" the bill to make it more palatable (and more "reasonable" "common sense gun regulation"), it's conceivable that we lose that backing from the casual gun owners.

That, and all the antis need is to get some videotape of one of the shoots and air it to shock the soccer moms.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 8:01:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Corum:
The reasoning behind the request to keep chit chat down is that they can get real information from our inteligent discourse. While all they have is knee jerk reaction and feel good,idiotic and nonsensical arguments. In other words if we point out what are obvious problems to us,with brains,with their bill we are potentialy helping them make amendment 8 9 10 until they get one that might pass.btw I was reading this forum for some time before I signed on to keep up on local issues that I could not find thru other sources so to me it makes sense to me that the antis might as well. imho



Yup.

I know all I need to know about the ban/ bans.

Tell me where to March.


JR
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 1:24:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By racecar:

Originally Posted By Corum:
The reasoning behind the request to keep chit chat down is that they can get real information from our inteligent discourse. While all they have is knee jerk reaction and feel good,idiotic and nonsensical arguments. In other words if we point out what are obvious problems to us,with brains,with their bill we are potentialy helping them make amendment 8 9 10 until they get one that might pass.btw I was reading this forum for some time before I signed on to keep up on local issues that I could not find thru other sources so to me it makes sense to me that the antis might as well. imho



Yup.

I know all I need to know about the ban/ bans.

Tell me where to March.

So, you're going to March in support of HB2414. Would that be correct. Support as in supporting for the ban to take place.


JR

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 2:13:54 PM EDT
the only thing i ve seen about a march is an anti war march
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 4:45:22 PM EDT
Link to Article


Community leaders and residents in the Englewood neighborhood plan to march this weekend to protest the violence tearing up their community--just as they did in 1999, and in 1995, and in 1991.

For at least 20 years, Englewood and its South Side neighbor, West Englewood, have been used as symbols of urban despair, where jobs are scarce, homes are headed toward foreclosure and dreams are chased between gunfire in the streets.

President Bill Clinton visited Englewood High School in 1999 to proclaim an end to urban hopelessness, a year after the body of Ryan Harris, 11, was found raped and beaten in a vacant lot.

Mayor Richard Daley toured five blocks near 63rd and Halsted Streets after a spate of gang-related shootings in 1991, saying the solution was simple: "J-O-B-S. The people need jobs."

Daley is scheduled to return Saturday morning for a march near 68th Street and Ashland Avenue after two girls --Siretha White, 10, and Starkesia Reed, 14--were killed earlier this month by stray bullets.

There is another march scheduled for Friday, starting at the scene of Siretha's death near 70th Place and Damen Avenue, and ending at her family's home near 58th Street and Marshfield Avenue.

While organizers prepare for both events, local leaders grapple with the riddle of how to pull the community out of its relentless tailspin.

"It's just like peeling an onion," said John Ellis, a longtime Englewood resident who runs the Providence House, an organization for low-income seniors. "I can't get to the bottom of how to fix things here."

Carved up among six aldermen--which makes every revitalization effort a political minuet-- Englewood ranks among the city's worst areas for high school dropouts, crime, poverty and housing.

As older families leave, due to foreclosure or the fear of crime, new residents stream in from demolished public housing high-rises, a shifting population with loose stakes in the area.

Redevelopment efforts are under way, including a plan for 500 single-family homes and a $150 million renovation of the Kennedy King College campus. But the area remains largely isolated, just 10 miles from the Loop, with no major grocery stores for 2-mile stretches.

"We're looking at decades of economic decline in and around Englewood," said Nik Theodore, director of the University of Illinois at Chicago's Center for Economic Development. "The jobs base has been decimated there. Geographically, they're so cut off from any big employment bases. They're just so cut off from even living wage jobs."

The area started its decline in the 1960s, as a middle-class haven for German, Irish and Swedish families began to reel from the disappearance of manufacturing and stockyard jobs.

By 1970, the area's 63rd Street shopping strip was a shell of its former glory as the city's largest retail area outside the Loop during the early 20th Century. And, as African-American families arrived in search of affordable housing, many after having been displaced by the building of the Dan Ryan Expressway in the 1950s, "white flight" took off.

By the mid-1980s, with unemployment hitting South Side blacks particularly hard, Englewood and West Englewood had become packed with abandoned buildings, battlegrounds in a flourishing local drug trade. Some 35,600 residents left between 1980 and 2000, census figures show.

"Once the departure of those middle-class families took hold, you stopped having teachers, police officers and pastors living in the community in which they worked," said Henry Wilson, a neighborhood activist who has lived in Englewood since 1953.

Some enclaves of tidy brick bungalows still have block clubs and neighborhood watches.

But other blocks belong largely to absentee landlords who draw a more transient population, he said.

"What does that put in the kids' minds?" Wilson said. "That if you want to make it, you have to leave the community. And that leads to people not caring about the community."

Prolonged institutional indifference has also helped pull down Englewood, said Robert Sampson, a Harvard University sociologist who has researched Chicago's poorest neighborhoods for more than a decade.

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