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Posted: 1/30/2006 5:40:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 6:03:10 AM EDT by ghostwalker]
By John Birch, President, Concealed Carry, Inc., Oak Brook, IL, Tel: 630 660-3935 Email: john@concealcarry.org

Once No Gun Rod signs HB 2414 (Semi Auto Ban) into law his likelihood of election drops to ZERO. No one downstate will ever believe his claim that he supports private gun ownership again. Want Rod gone? Support HB 2414 and he'll be forced to political commit suicide by pen. You see, the last thing Rod wants is this bill on his desk. He wants to say he supports HB 2414 knowing it will NEVER pass and get the best of both worlds. We have to force this bill down the Governor's throat and then he will be TOAST. SUPPORT HB 2414. Do it. Now.

With apologies to the NRA, ISRA, Champaign County Rifle Association, Mac McWilliams, and even the fledgling ICarry.org I must demur from the suggestion that gun owners fight HB 2414. We should instead support HB 2414 and more for the higher purpose of getting Governor Rod Blagojevich out of office. Please read and then either declare me insane or support HB 2414.

RECAP: HB 2414 is touted as the law that will restore the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban to Illinois. Never mind the the federal ban flat didn't work and the carnage that was projected to result from the expiration of the ban in 2004 never happened. That said HB 2414 is not a replacement for the Federal AWB which only banned sales of NEW inventory. This bill is a ban on transfer and possession of even existing firearms in your home. You got it..KNOCK KNOCK..."we are here for your guns and you are under arrest." YES! We love it. BYE BYE ROD!

I support HB 2414 along with the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence (ICHV) even though this bill has nothing to do with handguns or even concealed carry for that matter. I want you to join me in supporting HB 2414. Here is why:

1) This bill is never going to die. Every year we go round and round with it or a variant.

2) All this bill does is cause gun owners to send money to lobbyists to stop it while costing the gun banners nothing as they have the taxpayers funding their efforts (Yes Mayor Daley has his own lobbyists paid for by big dummies and the ICHV is merely a political puppet of the Daley regime acting under the guise of a 501(c)3 non-profit.)

3) This is the big one: Show down time. I admit it. I am spoiling for a fight. This bill is every gun controllers wet dream. I say HB 2414 should be amended to ban handguns as well. I am not kidding and no it is not April 1st. We say we want to fight for our rights all the time. Prove it.

Thanks for reading so far. You are truly not only a future felon, but one heck of an American. Now here is my rationale:

The long touted number of FOID cards is 1,500,000 in Illinois. Let's assume only 1/3 have a weapon that would fall under HB 2414 and they are not about to hand over high dollar weapons without compensation. That would be 500,000 of us. Currently the Illinois Department of Corrections (Who did they ever correct by the way?) is housing 80,000 inmates (80,001 once gun hater George Ryan is convicted.) This means the prison system would have to be increased by 625% just to accommodate previously law abiding gun owners. It costs just over $14,000 to house a prisoner for a year. The budget for prisons would have to go from $1,190,000,000 to over $9,000,000,000 a year. Staffing at prisons would move from 14,000 corrections officers (corrections, ya, right) to 87,500. Look, Rod "the gun" Blagojevich can't even find $3,200,000,000 to meet existing obligations much less find another $7,000,000,000 to fund this bill.

The numbers do NOT take into account the few criminals who are in possession of these weapons currently. Note we was "few criminals" because these guns are simply too big to be used for crime in virtually all instances. This law targets average Joe's, not criminals. It creates criminals rather than stops criminals. It's a liberal thing.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. A story we are following and hope to be able to report on is the arrest of a prominent Chicago citizen who is also a recipient of the Purple Heart (not John Kerry style either) in the current war against terrorism. His home was "dynamically" entered by the Chicago police resulting in $30,000 in damage to the home and 3 felony counts against this citizen who is not only a war hero, but has zero criminal record. If HB 2414 passes we are potentially looking at $15,000.000,000 in damage to our private property. Assuming just 5 cops per dynamic entry we are talking 2,500,000 police man days just to make the initial arrests. Then add in the pre-trial confinement, the lawyers, the already at over capacity court system...you get the idea.

And look at all the US Citizens who will simply not visit, much less move to Illinois with such a law in place. Billions more LOST all because of HB 2414.

REPEATING: Once Gun Rod signs this bill into law his likelihood of election drops to ZERO. No one downstate will ever believe his claim that he supports private gun ownership again. Want Rod gone? Support HB 2414 and he'll be forced to political commit suicide by pen. You see, the last thing Rod wants is this bill on his desk. He wants to say he supports HB 2414 knowing it will NEVER pass. We have to force this bill down the Governor's throat and then he will be TOAST. SUPPORT HB 2414. Do it. Now.

So what is not to like? Want to bring the State of Illinois back to reality? Then you must call your state representatives and them to vote YES on HB 2414. I am right now.

Posted By John Birch, President, Concealed Carry, Inc. Comments

------------

He's taking some heat on his site.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:24:34 AM EDT
It sounds like a double edged sword to me.

Is John Birch nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing (no pun intened to ghostwalker's avatar), or is he for real?????

4X4SC
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:03:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 4x4sc:
It sounds like a double edged sword to me.

Is John Birch nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing (no pun intened to ghostwalker's avatar), or is he for real?????

4X4SC



I think it was really intended to point out all the inherent flaws in the law...at least that is what I hope.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:09:27 AM EDT
I don't doubt he's taking a lot of heat on his site. I think the idea is assinine.
If something like this were to pass, it would be almost impossible to get it thrown out. I'm sure it would be effective in getting Blagojevich out, but I for one won't cut off my nose to spite my face. Just the governor pushing for it should be enough to turn off the downstate voters. In addition, our reps would think we are all nuts.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:14:26 AM EDT
Even if Rod doesn't get reelected, there really isn't anyone that can take his place that will fight for us anyway.

I'd rather have four more years of Rod and get to keep my AR-15 than have him voted out and have to turn it in, sell it, or move immediately.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:28:06 AM EDT
What about Oberweis? I met him last year at a gun show where he was passing out campaign pamphlets. He said he was pro- 2nd amendment. I think Bill Brady would be good, but not sure he has much of a chance. No name recognition.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:37:06 AM EDT
I've met and talked with John Birch at his home a number of times...I even used him as an FFL for a while until he got kind of "out there". I have no doubt that he is completely sincere in his desire that this passes. As he says in his dialogue, he is "itching for a fight". He is not one to back down from anyone, but he sometimes fails to see the bigger picture...the bigger picture being in this case the loss of our gun rights...a loss that we would probably never regain. The only reason the federal AWB is no longer law is because of the expiration clause written into it by Republicans with some foresight....that Clinton wouldn't be in office forever. This bill has no expiration clause.

I stopped using John B. as my FFL when he started pushing Amisol engine oil, and wouldn't do my FFL transfers unless I donated to his site and became a "paying member", whatever that was. He sent me an email back claiming I was a "sunshine soldier" since I wasn't actively involved in his causes. There's no bigger supporter of the 2nd Amendment than me...CCW, Class 3, AOW, etc. I think we should be able to own it all, and I let my reps know that every chance I get.

He supports some good causes, but to want something like this to pass is crossing the line and over the edge. By the way, he's also an attorney who can take his own case to court if he has to...something you and I can't do if we get in trouble.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:14:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 1:18:15 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
So let me get this straight.

Lets potentially fuck ourselves over if Blago signs in into law just to get him out of office?

Wouldn't the damage already be done?

But, but, Blago is out of power.

Who the fuck cares at that point?

6 fucking rifles I own would be illegal and the 12rd pistol mags and over 50 AR mags would be fucking illegal.

I do realize that they couldn't take them all, but the people that don't turn them over would be instant Felons if caught (and I don't feel like becoming a felon, I don't know about you guys)

I'm not sure I like this guys ways of thinking. Sounds like he's been sniffing too much rubber cemment.

WIZZO

EDIT: Boy, that pissed me off quick
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:14:55 PM EDT
This is stupid logic if it is real, not jsut a sarcastic commentary on the Bill itself. Blago has pissed off A LOT of people, both Republicans and Democrats alike. None of the people I know, regardless of their political affiliation, currently want Blago in office. Their seems to be the universal opinion that he is either in over his head, or simply put 'A Dumbass.' It honestly takes hard work to put a State 3 billion dollars in debt and then have the gall to give away a million dollars to a private church that has insurance to cover the fire they had.

As long as the Republicans don't pull a boneheaded move like bringing in some whacko from another state to run for the position, Blago is going to get killed in the voting.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:53:45 PM EDT

I stopped using John B. as my FFL when he started pushing Amisol engine oil,


I realize that I snipped the rest of the sentence, but what is your issue with someone selling Amsoil. Did they do something I am unaware of?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:55:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sleepercaprice1:
I for one won't cut off my nose to spite my face.



You said it.

The nose is very useful in sniffing out bullshit logic.

This whole idea might very well be the most insane thing I have ever heard.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:44:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sleepercaprice1:
What about Oberweis? I met him last year at a gun show where he was passing out campaign pamphlets. He said he was pro- 2nd amendment. I think Bill Brady would be good, but not sure he has much of a chance. No name recognition.



I recall somewhere that Oberweis actually supported extending the federal AWB....
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:44:47 PM EDT
This sounds like complete BS to me. A bill like that would seem to be tough to get rid of once it is in place. We were luckly that the Federal AWB had a 10 year limit on it or else we'd still be in trouble. Makes me want to quit my job and go back to Indiana. hock.gif
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:25:16 PM EDT
And most of you folks on here thought I was drinking my bath water.

Ain't gonna happen. I 'm not sending my daughters rights down the river. FuckThat.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:41:35 PM EDT
While I can see where his train of logic came from, that's fucking retarded. Sorry John, I'm not buying that shit.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:47:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FAL:
I've met and talked with John Birch at his home a number of times...I even used him as an FFL for a while until he got kind of "out there". I have no doubt that he is completely sincere in his desire that this passes. As he says in his dialogue, he is "itching for a fight". He is not one to back down from anyone, but he sometimes fails to see the bigger picture...the bigger picture being in this case the loss of our gun rights...a loss that we would probably never regain. The only reason the federal AWB is no longer law is because of the expiration clause written into it by Republicans with some foresight....that Clinton wouldn't be in office forever. This bill has no expiration clause.

I stopped using John B. as my FFL when he started pushing Amisol engine oil, and wouldn't do my FFL transfers unless I donated to his site and became a "paying member", whatever that was. He sent me an email back claiming I was a "sunshine soldier" since I wasn't actively involved in his causes. There's no bigger supporter of the 2nd Amendment than me...CCW, Class 3, AOW, etc. I think we should be able to own it all, and I let my reps know that every chance I get.

He supports some good causes, but to want something like this to pass is crossing the line and over the edge. By the way, he's also an attorney who can take his own case to court if he has to...something you and I can't do if we get in trouble.


I think John wants to fight a real fight and not this constant gun control being bankrolled by the City of Chicago and its Big Dummy voters.

In any case, what's worse? John suggesting that we support this bill or gun owners here talking about how they are going to obey the ban, every single damn year? What was the latest I saw - oh should I buy this gun because it might get banned? With gun owners like that, we might as well support HB2414.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:18:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 6:27:13 PM EDT by racecar]
I think what John is trying to illustrate is that the proponents of these bans bank on our reactions in advance when they make the bills unpalatable to the extreme. i.e. No grandfather clause to buy us off and the threat of confiscation without remuneration. By doing this they can count on firm opposition. This plays well to their liberal constituents who have their heads up Oprahs birth canal. They can claim to be keeping the kids safe by trying to eliminate the evil guns while knowing that resistance will never allow a bill to go forward untouched. This is how they expand their power base. The bills that contain the latter made compromises are the ones we will actually have to live with.

Because they count on a fight, they calculate in advance what they will bargain away. i.e. No grandfather clause and the threat of confiscation without remuneration. John is suggesting that we lie down and let them have the big Matzo Ball as it is with no compromises. He has taken the time to spell out the cost of getting what they want and they are staggering. So staggering that if this bill became law unchanged tomorrow the net effect would be a disaster for them. Because do you know what would happen? Nothing. Not tomorrow or next week or next year. No one will pay for it. No one wants to pay for it. Law enforcement doesn’t want do it and can’t. Daley and Blago cant afford to have it and are more interested in fucking around with us to keep and increase their power base. It like the kid who says, fantasizing, “I wish I had a Ferrari.” or “I wish Kate Moss was my girlfriend.” When a fantasy meets the real world that kid can’t afford to keep a Ferrari or to keep Kate Moss in blow and both would be quickly lost to the reality of the cost of possession. The old “Be careful what you wish for.” Theme.

John Birch is advocating a dynamic move that Daley and Blago are betting we don’t have the stones to make.

Similar stuff has been going on In Canada since 1995 when their registration law Bill C-68 was enacted to take place over time ending in 2003 with the individual registration of every firearm and owner in Canada. It didn’t happen. Voluntary Compliance was so low that they threatened the non compliant with five year prison sentences. Gun owners stayed away in droves. It was originally budgeted at $119 million but has soared to over $1 billion. Contributing directly to the recent release of the pansy PM Paul Martin for new Conservative Stephen Harper.

John Birch seems to think that if the bill was law next week that all we would have to do is nothing and them that wanted it would be looking for another deal. Because what they really wanted was, not to win, ….but to keep on playing.

I’m not so sure he’s wrong.

Is it possible to execute on his strategy and stick it to them? No effin way. It’s to deft a move.


JR
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:38:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By racecar:
I think what John is trying to illustrate is that the proponents of these bans bank on our reactions in advance when they make the bills unpalatable to the extreme. i.e. No grandfather clause to buy us off and the threat of confiscation without remuneration. By doing this they can count on firm opposition. This plays well to their liberal constituents who have their heads up Oprahs birth canal. They can claim to be keeping the kids safe by trying to eliminate the evil guns while knowing that resistance will never allow a bill to go forward untouched. This is how they expand their power base. The bills that contain the latter made compromises are the ones we will actually have to live with.

Because they count on a fight, they calculate in advance what they will bargain away. i.e. No grandfather clause and the threat of confiscation without remuneration. John is suggesting that we lie down and let them have the big Matzo Ball as it is with no compromises. He has taken the time to spell out the cost of getting what they want and they are staggering. So staggering that if this bill became law unchanged tomorrow the net effect would be a disaster for them. Because do you know what would happen? Nothing. Not tomorrow or next week or next year. No one will pay for it. No one wants to pay for it. Law enforcement doesn’t want do it and can’t. Daley and Blago cant afford to have it and are more interested in fucking around with us to keep and increase their power base. It like the kid who says, fantasizing, “I wish I had a Ferrari.” or “I wish Kate Moss was my girlfriend.” When a fantasy meets the real world that kid can’t afford to keep a Ferrari or to keep Kate Moss in blow and both would be quickly lost to the reality of the cost of possession. The old “Be careful what you wish for.” Theme.

John Birch is advocating a dynamic move that Daley and Blago are betting we don’t have the stones to make.

Similar stuff has been going on In Canada since 1995 when their registration law Bill C-68 was enacted to take place over time ending in 2003 with the individual registration of every firearm and owner in Canada. It didn’t happen. Voluntary Compliance was so low that they threatened the non compliant with five year prison sentences. Gun owners stayed away in droves. It was originally budgeted at $119 million but has soared to over $1 billion. Contributing directly to the recent release of the pansy PM Paul Martin for new Conservative Stephen Harper.

John Birch seems to think that if the bill was law next week that all we would have to do is nothing and them that wanted it would be looking for another deal. Because what they really wanted was, not to win, ….but to keep on playing.

I’m not so sure he’s wrong.

Is it possible to execute on his strategy and stick it to them? No effin way. It’s to deft a move.


JR



Well put!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:13:31 PM EDT
I think you're missing the point. This isn't about gamesmanship. It's about keeping and enjoying my weapons LEGALLY. It's about my constitutional rights. It's about standing up against those who would make a criminal of me with the stroke of a pen. I am not willing to wager on whether this proposed law would be/could be enforced. If it becomes law we will all have choices to make. I have never been a criminal and I don't intend to become one. And I don't want to be looking over my shoulder...I shouldn't have to. This legislation is wrong. The people who propose it are wrong. I'm with Wizzo on this one. It must be fought wholeheartedly, come what may. As for the governor, I couldn't care less about what the future holds for him. This is about our rights, not the governor.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:15:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Quetico:
I think you're missing the point. This isn't about gamesmanship. It's about keeping and enjoying my weapons LEGALLY. It's about my constitutional rights.



We all agree on the end but you should reconsider the part about not being about gamesmanship. They keep making moves and we keep re-acting. To preserve as much as we can of what we have left.

We have to stop reacting as a movement and do a little more acting. There have been signs that the orgs like NRA and ISRA are slowly thinking that way. ISRA bombed last session with tragically flawed strategy. What they were trying to do was act on that illegal records database. They have to keep the same intent of going after the illegal infringements that are commonplace. I doubt they will make the same mistake again. NRA pounced on the illegal confiscations in the wake of Katrina and made it stick. That was a win.


For the Supreme Court to make ruling, a case of grievous wrong against the 2nd has to come before it. The acceptance of incremental gun control is grounds to argue that more should be considered reasonable in the eyes of the law. We have made our bed in that respect. FOID law and bans under home rule could be contested. Has it been done? Nope. And it’s to late. A bunch of guys want to be “ keeping and enjoying [their] weapons legally.” Me too. They count on our response to adapt to new laws. By constantly acquiescing we are usurping our own rights. No body wants to fight the fight of civil disobedience because it will cost in the “now”.

If it passed tomorrow I’m not sure what I’d do. We’d be in a lot better shape if we stood together and refused to surrender our property. If it passed tomorrow and a dead line was set and when the time came nobody showed up with rifles what do you think they would do? Start calling 1.5 mil FOID holders and ask to deprive them of their property or BLINK….. HARD. Then you have something that you can take to the court. A clear enacted law that can be ruled on because of is sweeping nature. That is why this bill would be perfect to become law.

I repeat that we could never execute on Birch’s plan. To high stakes a play. The pro 2nd crowd does not have the stomach for it. If we had more resolve it could be a real move. WE are not desperate enough yet. Some day we will be.

Brinksmanship is dangerous game.

How about a nice game of chess?

JR
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:27:20 AM EDT

BLUFFING IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE TACTIC WHEN LOBBYING LEGISLATORS.


THIS IS NOT FUCKING POKER.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:16:46 AM EDT
now i'm not saying let's sit on our asses with a martini and watch, but blago is fucked-his own party hates him. this is a no brainer here. i mean, i see no reason to really worry all that much about him. sure we need to do all we can to make sure that he doesn't get back in, but giving up legislation is retarded. he just says give up the awb because us assault rifle guys are always the bargaining chip in the gun world. we'll give you assault rifles just don't take our pistols or huntin' guns. bullshit......


jake
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:14:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quetico:
I think you're missing the point. This isn't about gamesmanship. It's about keeping and enjoying my weapons LEGALLY. It's about my constitutional rights. It's about standing up against those who would make a criminal of me with the stroke of a pen. I am not willing to wager on whether this proposed law would be/could be enforced. If it becomes law we will all have choices to make. I have never been a criminal and I don't intend to become one. And I don't want to be looking over my shoulder...I shouldn't have to. This legislation is wrong. The people who propose it are wrong. I'm with Wizzo on this one. It must be fought wholeheartedly, come what may. As for the governor, I couldn't care less about what the future holds for him. This is about our rights, not the governor.


This is positive to hear - but consider that it seems a good portion of gun owners here seem to be spending time and effort talking about how they are going to comply with the ban, rather than fighting it. Such people aren't allies in the battle for gun rights.

Though I agree with one thing - one can't destroy gun rights in order to save them.

Folks, we need to vote for Blago in the Democrat Party primary!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:57:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cradddock:

I stopped using John B. as my FFL when he started pushing Amisol engine oil,


I realize that I snipped the rest of the sentence, but what is your issue with someone selling Amsoil. Did they do something I am unaware of?

You had to become either a buyer of Amisol or an Amisol dealer to use his FFL any longer. If you didn't buy Amisol or push it on other people, you couldn't use his FFL.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:30:21 AM EDT
The product is called Amsoil, I think. It's a damn good oil. I don't use it myself, but if I had an expensive exotic car, I'd probably consider it.
John Birch must be a fanatical oil dealer as well as fanatic about his politics.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:35:27 AM EDT
As a downstater, I have to ask--what does this gain?

Rod is as good as dead down here. One big gun control law isn't going to kill him any more than he already is. It will permanently get rid of all these guns (God knows we'd never get that repealed without SCOTUS intervention).

Using John's math, I would estimate about 1% of the 500,000 would hold out. 5000 is a whole lot more doable in terms of prisons. Now Rod can build more prisons downstate, create the jobs he hasn't been able to create yet, increase union membership, and benefit from the whole thing, while they work to get rid of the few guns that are left. What if everyone refused to pay their income taxes? The same logic John uses could be applied to taxes or any other law you can think of. You can't even invite 15 people to a party and get all of them to show up for free beer, much less 500,000 to risk a felony conviction.

The gubnatorial election is the Republicans' to lose. If they field anyone halfway decent, they will win. If they continue to put their worst foot forward after they shoot themselves in it, Blowbagofshit will win by default. All they have to do is NOT fuck this up, and Rod will lose, his war chest notwithstanding.

John's point that restrictive gun laws tend to benefit gun owners in the resulting political fray is true, but this idea is just dumb.


Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:59:42 AM EDT

BLUFFING IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE TACTIC WHEN LOBBYING LEGISLATORS.


THIS IS NOT FUCKING POKER.




EXACTLY
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:42:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By npd233:
BLUFFING IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE TACTIC WHEN LOBBYING LEGISLATORS.


THIS IS NOT FUCKING POKER.




That says it all.

I had to take my blood pressure medicine after the first paragraph.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:21:30 PM EDT
I see his point, "itching for a fight" and all but like some have aptly put it , NO way! He is a bit out there with his logic.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:41:30 PM EDT
So let's say we go along with this brilliant strategy. Daley and Blago get 2414. Blago wins reelection because you can't beat even a walking talking turd like him with nobody. Then what do we have? No AWs and 4 more years of Elvis?

I don't know why everyone is so sure that Blago is out. He has $10 million plus in the bank, an electorate that is dumbe enough to elect, Thompson twice, Edgar twice, Ryan and Blago and an opposition party that makes the Japanese Kamikaze plan seem brilliant. How can he lose? He'll have to try!

I don't know John Birch from Adam, but if this is the hill he wants to die on, he'll be a lonely man.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:21:57 AM EDT
John Birch is being monstorously short-sighted. Getting rid of ROD for Judy Barr or any of the other Repubs. is not worth my gun rights.


We need to push back and get NFA goodies, the FOID repealed and Concealed Carry (not necessarily in that order).

The only way to do this is to talk to all of our friends, families, co-workers, etc. and convert them to being pro-RKBA. We need to build our political base. Simple statements like "I think people should be able to defend themselves." "A lot can happen between dialing 911 and getting cops to your home" (I recommend playing Public Enemy's song '911 is a Joke' at this point), "Da Mayer and The Governor have an armed personal security detail - is your life worth any less than theirs?" and so on. Talking about black helicopters, the UN and how much Hillary Clinton has "The Mark Of THE BEAST!" is counter-productive IMHO.

We need to keep from being boxed-in and reach out to our fellow gun owners as well as grow our "evil rifle" community. When we're able to grow our base (and make sure they vote), we'll have movement in a positive direction for Illinois gunowners.

Just my thoughts...
Mike

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:49:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By handyandy:

I don't know why everyone is so sure that Blago is out. He has $10 million plus in the bank, an electorate that is dumbe enough to elect, Thompson twice, Edgar twice, Ryan and Blago and an opposition party that makes the Japanese Kamikaze plan seem brilliant. How can he lose? He'll have to try!






Very true.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:15:03 AM EDT
I think it's time that John Birch put the cap back on the glue jar.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:00:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 6:01:28 PM EDT by ghostwalker]
The total is 15.2 mil. Read it today in the Springfield paper.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 3:05:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By handyandy:
So let's say we go along with this brilliant strategy. Daley and Blago get 2414. Blago wins reelection because you can't beat even a walking talking turd like him with nobody. Then what do we have? No AWs and 4 more years of Elvis?

I don't know why everyone is so sure that Blago is out. He has $10 million plus in the bank, an electorate that is dumbe enough to elect, Thompson twice, Edgar twice, Ryan and Blago and an opposition party that makes the Japanese Kamikaze plan seem brilliant. How can he lose? He'll have to try!

I don't know John Birch from Adam, but if this is the hill he wants to die on, he'll be a lonely man.



Andy is right. He will die alone on that hill. The day I surrender my guns to Daley will be the day I die.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:01:56 AM EDT
John Birch is known for putting forth goofy logic.

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:58:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ghostwalker:
The total is 15.2 mil. Read it today in the Springfield paper.

He has a formidable war chest and will be tough to beat even though he is unpopular. Repubs in this state seem to be more unpopular than bad Dems so we have quite a bit to overcome. Chicago votes really affect the outcome any election in a big way, Chicago leans heavily to the left, and don't forget the Union vote. Add in Blago's $15 Million war chest and it's a pretty solid political machine the Dems have in Illinois.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:38:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FAL:

Originally Posted By ghostwalker:
The total is 15.2 mil. Read it today in the Springfield paper.

He has a formidable war chest and will be tough to beat even though he is unpopular. Repubs in this state seem to be more unpopular than bad Dems so we have quite a bit to overcome. Chicago votes really affect the outcome any election in a big way, Chicago leans heavily to the left, and don't forget the Union vote. Add in Blago's $15 Million war chest and it's a pretty solid political machine the Dems have in Illinois.



That same paper that I read said that the Unions and those organizations dealing with "Health Care" are the one's that are bring in the bucks by the "Wally-World" truck load. Donations were coming in has far away as Floridia....and all from the same post office box.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:55:35 PM EDT
WOW... I thought we had problems with our .gov with the CCW fiasco... Shit, I pity you guys...
I'm goin' back up nort...

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:10:29 PM EDT
Is John Birch really on our side?
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