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Posted: 4/1/2006 12:06:36 PM EDT
Update for anyone that is interested......

Called the DCSO on March 29th to see if I could come to pick up my CCW. After waiting a few minutes while the individual looked up my file I was told that even though it had been 120 days my permit was still not ready. I asked if there was a problem and was told that the lieutenant in charge had not had the time to sign off on the permit and that it would probably be 3 to 4 more days.

I then asked if it was common for the DCSO to violate state law by going over the state mandated 120 day limit. She stated that when a person applies for the permit they are told that it will be approximately 120 days but that it could go over. I was then told that most people are quite happy with the service they receive from the DCSO. I stated that I found that hard to believe since other larger counties like Washoe and Clark are able to process applications in 6 to 12 weeks while Douglas is taking over 18 weeks.

At this point in the conversation I suspect the lady answering my questions may have figured out I was not going to let this go. She then stated that she would be happy to transfer me over to the lieutenant in charge of applications. She added that the lieutenant would likely deny me my permit if I continued to press the issue. I was flabbergasted...........

My next question was........."So you're saying that my permit will be denied because I questioned why Douglas county was in violation of state law?" She replied that it was up to the discretion of the lieutenant.

Picture me staring at the phone in my hand and wondering why I ever decided to move to this little bit of California right here in Nevada.

I then decided that discretion would be in order here and politely ended the conversation by asking when I could expect the permit. She stated that she did not know but would be happy to transfer me over to the lieutenant. I thanked her but said I would rather discuss this issue with him face to face when I came down to pick up my permit. End of conversation.
Anyone have any ideas?

---AllAlphas

P.S. Anyone here have a friend with the AG's office?

P.P.S Anxiously awaiting quality wit from my southern brothers............please don't disappoint!
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:26:14 PM EDT
How big is DCSO??

Are they that busy that a 10 min. background check stretches out to 180 days??

As for the law, is there any wording in it stating that the police MUST issue a permit in 120 days?? I looked it up and it only lists 120 days as the limit, but I may have missed another NRS.

It says it must be issued by or denied. What I was looking for was a punishment if the permit is not issued within that time.

The law is very clear on the only reasons the permit can be denied. I would say there is plenty of room to complain.

The AGs office may not look to far into this....they don't usually have a clue. I would look for this guy's boss or even an internal affairs section. Time to complain and push the issue. I would even try talking to him....he can't deny it unless you meet one of the provisions.

There is also the media.......a lil media pressure as to why good people can't obtain a permit and why it would take 120 days for a permit background while it takes less time for the dept. to complete a background check on someone they are going to hire.

Just some thoughts.........

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:43:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:
How big is DCSO??

Are they that busy that a 10 min. background check stretches out to 180 days??

As for the law, is there any wording in it stating that the police MUST issue a permit in 120 days?? I looked it up and it only lists 120 days as the limit, but I may have missed another NRS.

It says it must be issued by or denied. What I was looking for was a punishment if the permit is not issued within that time.

The law is very clear on the only reasons the permit can be denied. I would say there is plenty of room to complain.

The AGs office may not look to far into this....they don't usually have a clue. I would look for this guy's boss or even an internal affairs section. Time to complain and push the issue. I would even try talking to him....he can't deny it unless you meet one of the provisions.

There is also the media.......a lil media pressure as to why good people can't obtain a permit and why it would take 120 days for a permit background while it takes less time for the dept. to complete a background check on someone they are going to hire.

Just some thoughts.........




Here's the relevant statute:


NRS 202.366 Investigation of applicant for permit; issuance or denial of permit; expiration of permit.

1. Upon receipt by a sheriff of an application for a permit, the sheriff shall conduct an investigation of the applicant to determine if he is eligible for a permit. In conducting the investigation, the sheriff shall forward a complete set of the applicant’s fingerprints to the Central Repository for Nevada Records of Criminal History for submission to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its report concerning the criminal history of the applicant. The sheriff shall issue a permit to the applicant unless he is not qualified to possess a handgun pursuant to state or federal law or is not otherwise qualified to obtain a permit pursuant to NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, or the regulations adopted pursuant thereto.

2. To assist the sheriff in conducting his investigation, any local law enforcement agency, including the sheriff of any county, may voluntarily submit to the sheriff a report or other information concerning the criminal history of an applicant.

3. Within 120 days after a complete application for a permit is submitted, the sheriff to whom the application is submitted shall grant or deny the application. If the application is denied, the sheriff shall send the applicant written notification setting forth the reasons for the denial. If the application is granted, the sheriff shall provide the applicant with a permit containing a colored photograph of the applicant and containing such other information as may be prescribed by the Department.
...



When the statute says "the Sheriff may", it means it's optional. When the statute says "the Sheriff shall", it means he must comply.

The problem is in forcing compliance. What a complaintant has to do is file a writ of mandamus with the District Court to force the Sheriff to show cause wy he did not comply with the statute. The Sheriff would then mostlikely deny the permit. The complaintant would then have to file an appeal with the District Court for the denial of the permit. This costs time and money in courts filing costs, court costs and attorney's fees. The Sheriffs all know that most people are not willing to do this.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 12:44:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 12:45:40 PM EDT by pedro66]

Originally Posted By RDP:
How big is DCSO??

Are they that busy that a 10 min. background check stretches out to 180 days??

As for the law, is there any wording in it stating that the police MUST issue a permit in 120 days?? I looked it up and it only lists 120 days as the limit, but I may have missed another NRS.

It says it must be issued by or denied. What I was looking for was a punishment if the permit is not issued within that time.

The law is very clear on the only reasons the permit can be denied. I would say there is plenty of room to complain.

The AGs office may not look to far into this....they don't usually have a clue. I would look for this guy's boss or even an internal affairs section. Time to complain and push the issue. I would even try talking to him....he can't deny it unless you meet one of the provisions.

There is also the media.......a lil media pressure as to why good people can't obtain a permit and why it would take 120 days for a permit background while it takes less time for the dept. to complete a background check on someone they are going to hire.

Just some thoughts.........




I think I have stumbled on something here, if it says must issue within 120 then Clark is well within the letter of the law and I am sure the others are doing this also, I say this because they issue the permit on the day you go in and apply and not the day they mail it out. Go check your dates you will see what I mean.

I dont think the laws covers when they have to give it to you, just says must issue within.

When you go to Clark they process you there and then and keep you waiting until its done, they then tell you its all OK just dependant on getting finger prints back from NVHP and lets face it if there was something they were going to deny you for it would of showed up when they ran you in the office ad they would of turned you down.

So really I don't think going by the letter of the law we have a foot to stand on trying to push the 120 day rule as they are issuing within an HOUR.

I think they have us cornered


THANKS RON
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:05:45 PM EDT
Cops in charge down there just flat out dont want you armed......they must think their in Calif. Washoe County is very quick...a few weeks with no bullshit. I refuse to live anywhere that has repressive cops in charge of your life. My last CCW class had about 30 people in it......Id bet everyone had their permits within 3-4 weeks tops. For that guy to take that long to ok a permit shows incompetance on his part and it should be brought to someones attention and get the damn program back on track. And I dont mean the head of the sherriffs dept. A politician would be good.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 1:34:07 PM EDT
RDP---
Douglas is probably the 3rd or 4th largest sheriff's department in the state. I doubt they are busier than Clark or Washoe for the amount of manpower that they have to do backgrounds. I think it is just a matter of the sheriff or one of his underlings opposed to, and thus throttling, the process. Pretty disappointing.

JimMayhugh---
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately for the DCSO I have the time and the money to make this an issue if my permit does not come through.
Considering I've had a permit for the last 10 years in Washoe they will have a hard time coming up with a reason to deny me.

OldTroop---
Ironically enough I was in your last CCW class............I was the guy that Mike and Dave referred to for competitive shooting info and was helping them run the line when you shot your qualification.

Apparently the DCSO has some serious problems with Nevadans exercising their right to carry concealed. Judging by the answers I received from the lady at DCSO.............no new permits issued before 120 days and don't question the process or you won't get your permit..........it looks like it is a problem emanating from higher up the chain of command.

---AllAlphas
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:24:03 PM EDT
A lil' media probe would be interesting......

Washoe and Clark are just busy......that is the delay. When manpower decisions are made, the administrative non-criminal side usually gets the short end of the stick.

The person's attitude you spoke with is a lil' interesting.....to threaten good people like that is a complete disservice to her community.

BTW, the Sheriff is an elected official. So, he is fairly political and concerned about what people think. Sounds like a nice editorial, or such, in the local paper is due. Sometimes bad press is the only way a weenie politician will respond.

It is a tough call to wait a week and see if you get it or start stirring the pot. Whatever you choose, I wouldn't let it just dwindle away. I would make some phone calls to the lt.'s supervisor and to the sheriff.

Link Posted: 4/1/2006 6:35:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2006 6:47:39 PM EDT by Guns4Musenic]
My uncle and I had our applications go beyond the 120 days and we called and after much prodding were told that they would send out a temporary letter from the sherrif in the permit's place. The letter lasted 30 days, as the end of the 30 days approached we called again and were told that they would send out another temporary letter, we then told the lady, who was nice but at the same time not very helpful that this was ridiculous having to carry a letter around with us instead of the card, and that if we could be issued the letter why not the card. She said there was some problem statewide or something, (passing the buck), and there was no resolution that she could see. My uncle was as polite as possible, hung up the phone, called the Governor's office, spoke with someone in the DA's office I believe and they resolved the matter with metro cause metro called us back within an hour and told us that the process would be expedited. We got our permits in less than a week. I don't remember the name of the woman in the DA's office. Throughout the process we were very polite with everyone we encountered. After a polite inquiry with the particular sherrif, maybe a phone call to the governor's office or DA might help the situation. It did for us.

Edited to add that it was a staffer of the governor's that we spoke to.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:18:08 AM EDT
I had to wait 128. When I asked them how they felt about being in violation of State Law, they gave me the same cock-and-bull story about how if I waste the Lieutenant's time, that I won't be getting my papers.

I'm not the only one whose had trouble with the incompetent, belligerent assholes at the DCSO that think they know Nevada Law better than some punk kid with a functioning web browser and a hyperlink from Google.

This douchebag Lieutenant was the same asshole that threatened to hold me with Contempt of Court when I showed up to pay a bullshit traffic fine in loose, unrolled pennies.

A word to the wise: Next time you have any dealings with the DCSO, bring an audio recorder along and document every last word spoken to you by them. The instant they realize that you understand that it is they, as public servants that are accountable to you, instead of t'other way round is the moment they get snippy and start to fling threats about like an angered bonobo will fling feces.

Perhaps letters to the local newspaper might get them to straighten their acts out.


Furthermore!

Instead of talking to this Lieutenant's superiors or to the DA, file a complaint with Internal Affairs. Supposedly, if an Officer has three complaints to the IAD on his jacket, then Internal Affairs has to do an investigation into the Officer in question. And unless television has lied to me (and it never has, ever) then we can expect a burly but soft-spoken cop-hating liberal douchebag in a bad suit to start breathing down the neck of Our Favorite Lieutenant. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only sort of liberal douche worth rooting for.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:47:36 AM EDT
3 complaints??

Every complaint is investigated here.........no magic number before there is an investigation.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:51:54 PM EDT
Sadly, DCSO has had more than their fair share of cretin officers/detectives/administrators...

They absolutely do hold with the 'citizens don't have the cash or time to take us to court' mentality! I do know there are some good officers on the road here, but the @ssholes are just too noticeable and there by tarnish the whole department. I certainly won't miss them when I move north to Washoe County.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:58:54 PM EDT
AA --- email incoming.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:12:05 AM EDT
AllAlphas,
PLEASE! If you have the means to fight these guys on this, please do it! Nearly all of us Douglas guys on this board have had a bad experience with the DCSO. In one capacity or another, we have been wronged. If just one guy could stick it to the man, it'd be a victory for all of us. Perhaps it would even make them do right by the citizenry for a change.
Let us know how we can help.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:01:49 PM EDT
Get all the CCW holders to make them account for the overtime waiting period....maybe someone should ask that smartass clerk if the LT. wants tio keep his job maybe he should start doing it. Id also write the chief aand ask him if its SOP to threaten citizens trying to stop a problemand put him on notice this shit will stop. And if he doesnt like the way the people who pay his damned way then he can be replced also. Be sure in any talks...phone or in person you have a tape recoreder....video wouldnt be bad either. If that asshole had of treated me like that we would have been in the cheifs office finding out why his employees can threaten the citizens. Make em sweat.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:26:30 PM EDT
Since this is a law without teeth to the sherrifs, they do not care about the law. Unless it comes to ordinary citizens excercising the law. Then they will watch you like a hawk and charge you with anything they can think of.

Here is just another example of government flouting the law by simply refusing to obey it. There is no real reason for the delay. 4 months is more than enough time to check everyone in your family out. I don't think they can come up with a good explaination either. They will give you the generic "I'm busy" which translates either too lazy or inefficent staffing.

If the LVMP is any reflection of the entire state, then the office staff there is only concerned with lunch. Maybe they should let a private firm do the CCWS.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 8:12:35 PM EDT
They dont mess around in Washoe County...about 3-4 weeks tops. There is no comparison to the south. Im to busy relates to incompetance to me. And I'll tell you what if you wanna talk to the officer in charge of the program....no problem....no threats.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 10:16:35 PM EDT
I have gone this route in the past on a separate issue, and the HNIC will give you the diplomatic, administrator answer. Basically what he says is " I back my boys no matter what they do."
That is why I'd like to see someone with the financial means fight this. I know of another guy having similar problems who may or may not chime in on this. Hopefully with enough civillian pressure, they'll quit treating us like peasants. I know it pisses them off that i haven't done anything to get throwed in the can. It's hard to be righteous.

Originally Posted By OldTroop:
Get all the CCW holders to make them account for the overtime waiting period....maybe someone should ask that smartass clerk if the LT. wants tio keep his job maybe he should start doing it. Id also write the chief aand ask him if its SOP to threaten citizens trying to stop a problemand put him on notice this shit will stop. And if he doesnt like the way the people who pay his damned way then he can be replced also. Be sure in any talks...phone or in person you have a tape recoreder....video wouldnt be bad either. If that asshole had of treated me like that we would have been in the cheifs office finding out why his employees can threaten the citizens. Make em sweat.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:16:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 12:02:33 PM EDT by GryphonX]

Originally Posted By gunmonkey:
I have gone this route in the past on a separate issue, and the HNIC will give you the diplomatic, administrator answer. Basically what he says is " I back my boys no matter what they do."
That is why I'd like to see someone with the financial means fight this. I know of another guy having similar problems who may or may not chime in on this. Hopefully with enough civillian pressure, they'll quit treating us like peasants. I know it pisses them off that i haven't done anything to get throwed in the can. It's hard to be righteous.



Chime.

IM sent to AA.
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