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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:15:45 PM EDT
Is it true that once you list a pistol on your CCW it can never be open carried again? As in, I'm walking around the desert doing some shooting and I have my p226 in an open belt holster and I have it listed on my CCW, I am actually now breaking the law?

Mind you, I heard this from a gunstore employee commando

I am getting ready to take the class and I am making the list of pistols I want to have listed.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:28:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By diversmith:
Is it true that once you list a pistol on your CCW it can never be open carried again? As in, I'm walking around the desert doing some shooting and I have my p226 in an open belt holster and I have it listed on my CCW, I am actually now breaking the law?

Mind you, I heard this from a gunstore employee commando

I am getting ready to take the class and I am making the list of pistols I want to have listed.



When you hear that kind of crap, the first thing you should ask is "Really, would you show me the Nevada Revised Statute/Municipal Code that states that?". When they can't produce it or state that "a cop told me that", 99% percent of the time you can disregard their statement.

For the record, no that is not the case.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 7:46:00 PM EDT
I'm gonna do the training and submit the paperwork next month. I wonder how long Lyon county takes to process it.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:55:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 9:58:02 PM EDT by ishoot2live]

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

Originally Posted By diversmith:
Is it true that once you list a pistol on your CCW it can never be open carried again? As in, I'm walking around the desert doing some shooting and I have my p226 in an open belt holster and I have it listed on my CCW, I am actually now breaking the law?

Mind you, I heard this from a gunstore employee commando

I am getting ready to take the class and I am making the list of pistols I want to have listed.



When you hear that kind of crap, the first thing you should ask is "Really, would you show me the Nevada Revised Statute/Municipal Code that states that?". When they can't produce it or state that "a cop told me that", 99% percent of the time you can disregard their statement.

For the record, no that is not the case.



+1

Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:01:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By diversmith:
Is it true that once you list a pistol on your CCW it can never be open carried again? As in, I'm walking around the desert doing some shooting and I have my p226 in an open belt holster and I have it listed on my CCW, I am actually now breaking the law?

Mind you, I heard this from a gunstore employee commando

I am getting ready to take the class and I am making the list of pistols I want to have listed.



Seems like you should have chosen myself or Jim for your CCW training (if you are in Las Vegas).

Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:21:24 PM EDT
I bet this employee is uber tacticool, too...
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:26:50 PM EDT


As correct as the above are, you are still in technical violation (in Clark County) if you fail to produce your "blue card".......and subject to arrest, and/or at least temporary confiscation.....as no doubt one of the above respected posters will confirm.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 9:57:02 AM EDT
I specifically put guns on my permit that I never intend to carry concealed (but find myself doing it anyways) so I could carry in the desert as I choose, and then cover up if I head in to town.
I convinced Meansteve that this is also a good idea and he has CCW'd his Ruger MKII almost as much as the Kel-tec.
Several of us also cross qualified, so that we can loan out our pieces in the event of an emergency, and still be covered. Of course, many of us also have dupes, so we can carry and loan at will. My mom knows she is always welcome to borrow my G26 when she is up here and avoid the airtravel hassel.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:31:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By citizen2:

As correct as the above are, you are still in technical violation (in Clark County) if you fail to produce your "blue card".......and subject to arrest, and/or at least temporary confiscation.....as no doubt one of the above respected posters will confirm.



Well, maybe you can direct us to the county ordinance....

Don't waste too much time looking, because it doesn't exist

It is a common misunderstanding by the police which now has become a made-up law that has no legal justification.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:18:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By citizen2:

As correct as the above are, you are still in technical violation (in Clark County) if you fail to produce your "blue card".......and subject to arrest, and/or at least temporary confiscation.....as no doubt one of the above respected posters will confirm.



Well, maybe you can direct us to the county ordinance....

Don't waste too much time looking, because it doesn't exist

It is a common misunderstanding by the police which now has become a made-up law that has no legal justification.



Hey, RDP
......did I tell you I love you???!!
For nearly forever, and many still believe, in addition to CCW the "blue card" is required when registered carry piece is actually out and about with you. I disbelieved that mantra for many years, even argued here about that requirement; NOW you assert me correct???????!!
There is no requirement to (additionally) carry "blue card" for CCW-registered firearms???
(Please say this is so.........)
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:33:47 AM EDT
If only I could convince the dept. and every cop that there is no such law........

I spoke with someone yesterday about it.......we will see where this goes.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:17:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By citizen2:

As correct as the above are, you are still in technical violation (in Clark County) if you fail to produce your "blue card".......and subject to arrest, and/or at least temporary confiscation.....as no doubt one of the above respected posters will confirm.



Well, maybe you can direct us to the county ordinance....

Don't waste too much time looking, because it doesn't exist

It is a common misunderstanding by the police which now has become a made-up law that has no legal justification.



As near as I can determine, it is a LVMPD policy that their officers must carry the registration card for any sidearm that they carry. It seems to have become a "if we gotta do it, then they (meaning us non-po-po) gotta do it" mindset.

When I worked as a volunteer instructor at the Metro Range, I had to see the blue card for any off-duty sidearm prior to qualification.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:41:07 PM EDT
well shiet, now i can lighten up the wallet load ;)
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 3:26:32 PM EDT
Notr to Hijack, but I've been looking to get my CCW. Any infor would be greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 6:41:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sm0key369:
Notr to Hijack, but I've been looking to get my CCW. Any infor would be greatly appreciated.



Sm0key,

I can get you squared away.

IM me your contact number and I will call you with info.

Hope this helps.

Joe
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:43:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

When I worked as a volunteer instructor at the Metro Range, I had to see the blue card for any off-duty sidearm prior to qualification.



When was this???

BTW, I have NEVER seen anyone produce a registration card at the range....maybe before my time!
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 5:33:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

When I worked as a volunteer instructor at the Metro Range, I had to see the blue card for any off-duty sidearm prior to qualification.



When was this???

BTW, I have NEVER seen anyone produce a registration card at the range....maybe before my time!



About 5 years ago.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:26:27 AM EDT
I tried to IM you, but the site is not showing me that it went through. Maybe I am just slow.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 9:38:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

About 5 years ago.



Hmmmm...may have seen you around then.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:09:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By citizen2:

As correct as the above are, you are still in technical violation (in Clark County) if you fail to produce your "blue card".......and subject to arrest, and/or at least temporary confiscation.....as no doubt one of the above respected posters will confirm.



Well, maybe you can direct us to the county ordinance....

Don't waste too much time looking, because it doesn't exist

It is a common misunderstanding by the police which now has become a made-up law that has no legal justification.



Sorry for digging this up, but did anyone ever get a definitve answer on if you really need to carry your Blue Cards with your firearms or not. I would love to lock mine in the safe and forget them...

BTW, even if it is legal, are they likely to confiscate my weapon if I don't have the card due to ignorance, etc?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:26:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ThePirate:

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By citizen2:

As correct as the above are, you are still in technical violation (in Clark County) if you fail to produce your "blue card".......and subject to arrest, and/or at least temporary confiscation.....as no doubt one of the above respected posters will confirm.



Well, maybe you can direct us to the county ordinance....

Don't waste too much time looking, because it doesn't exist

It is a common misunderstanding by the police which now has become a made-up law that has no legal justification.



Sorry for digging this up, but did anyone ever get a definitve answer on if you really need to carry your Blue Cards with your firearms or not. I would love to lock mine in the safe and forget them...

BTW, even if it is legal, are they likely to confiscate my weapon if I don't have the card due to ignorance, etc?



Here is something I posted on the subject back on September 20th, 2005, from another thread: Guy at work claims that it is illegal to... (by Sparky357) 9/20/05


Originally Posted By ishoot2live:

Just a suggestion when shooting in the desert in Clark County: If you have handguns with you make sure they are all registered and you actually HAVE the Blue Card(s) in your possession. A friend of mine had a gun confiscated by NHP a few years ago while he was out shooting in Sloan because he couldn't find his Blue Card. Although he honestly lost the card, it didn't carry any weight with the Trooper and he still impounded the gun anyway.

It took about three weeks and almost an act of Congress to get the gun back, because Metro will not issue a duplicate Blue Card without physically seeing the handgun, and NHP will not release the gun without a Blue Card. According to my friend Metro was great and they tried everything they could to be of assistance. It was NHP that gave him the hard time.

Eventually, a Sergeant or a Lieutenant at Metro sent a letter to NHP and that took care of it and he finally got the gun back. I would hate to have a brand new, high quality, high dollar gun taken away just for the Blue Card issue.

Hope this helps.

Be Safe.

Joe



September 20, 2005
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:01:10 PM EDT
Thanks for the info. The whole Blue Card issue makes little sense to me, but that is nothing new when it comes to firearms laws. What I don't like is carrying my CCW Permit, the BC (or multiple BCs), and my Driver's License (for ID) around all the time. The CCWP and DL are no problem, but the specific BC for the pistol I am carrying gets tiring to remember. Since you must have a BC to get a weapon on your CCWP, do I still need to carry the BC around? As far as shooting in the desert, I will make sure I have it if I ever do that.

BTW, does my CCWP count as ID; do I even need my DL when I go for a walk, for example?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:31:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ThePirate:


BTW, does my CCWP count as ID; do I even need my DL when I go for a walk, for example?



Unless otherwise specified, any "state-issued ID" (CCW included) will satisfy legal requirements.......(no, IANAL, just my experience.....perhaps someone knows otherwise?)
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:51:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:08:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

Originally Posted By ThePirate:


BTW, does my CCWP count as ID; do I even need my DL when I go for a walk, for example?



A CCW is state issued ID so it's fine.




Yes as Ignorant as I am,was'nt there something in the news where your Drivers License would include your CCW info.?,making the CCW card needless?,,,sounds practical IMO,just inquiring
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:29:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ThePirate:
BTW, does my CCWP count as ID; do I even need my DL when I go for a walk, for example?



Nope:



NRS 202.3667 Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.

1. Each permittee shall carry the permit, or a duplicate issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.367, together with proper identification whenever the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed firearm. Both the permit and proper identification must be presented if requested by a peace officer.

2. A permittee who violates the provisions of this section is subject to a civil penalty of $25 for each violation.




You need the CCW AND a state or federally issued picture ID.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:59:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

Originally Posted By ThePirate:
BTW, does my CCWP count as ID; do I even need my DL when I go for a walk, for example?



Nope:



NRS 202.3667 Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.

1. Each permittee shall carry the permit, or a duplicate issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.367, together with proper identification whenever the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed firearm. Both the permit and proper identification must be presented if requested by a peace officer.

2. A permittee who violates the provisions of this section is subject to a civil penalty of $25 for each violation.




You need the CCW AND a state or federally issued picture ID.



That was how I interpreted the statute as well, hence my question. In any event, I suppose 25 bucks won't ruin me if I forget it (the DL) some time.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:58:31 AM EDT
Why would you need your driver's license when you go for a walk?
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:38:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 7:40:04 AM EDT by JimMayhugh]

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Why would you need your driver's license when you go for a walk?



You don't, but...

Nevada has a statute that requires anyone detained by the police to identify themselves:


NRS 171.123 Temporary detention by peace officer of person suspected of criminal behavior or of violating conditions of parole or probation: Limitations.

1. Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.

2. Any peace officer may detain any person the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has violated or is violating the conditions of his parole or probation.

3. The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.

4. A person must not be detained longer than is reasonably necessary to effect the purposes of this section, and in no event longer than 60 minutes. The detention must not extend beyond the place or the immediate vicinity of the place where the detention was first effected, unless the person is arrested.




At one time the identification required was "name, date of birth, and social security number".

Larry Hiibel, a Humboldt County resident, was approached by a HCSO deputy concerning an assault report. Hiibel refised to identify himself, and was arrested and charged with obstructing an officer.

Hiibel's case made it to The U.S. Supreme Court, where his conviction was upheld.

The "name, date of birth and social security number" requirement was struck down however:


As we understand it, the statute does not require a suspect to give the officer a driver's license or any other document. Provided that the suspect either states his name or communicates it to the officer by other means--a choice, we assume, that the suspect may make--the statute is satisfied and no violation occurs.



So if you are stopped by a police officer as part of an investigatory detention (Terry Stop), you must disclose your identity to an officer.:


A state law requiring a suspect to disclose his name in the course of a valid Terry stop is consistent with Fourth Amendment prohibitions against unreasonable searches and seizures.



Just so you know.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:55:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:30:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

Originally Posted By ThePirate:
BTW, does my CCWP count as ID; do I even need my DL when I go for a walk, for example?



Nope:



NRS 202.3667 Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.

1. Each permittee shall carry the permit, or a duplicate issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.367, together with proper identification whenever the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed firearm. Both the permit and proper identification must be presented if requested by a peace officer.

2. A permittee who violates the provisions of this section is subject to a civil penalty of $25 for each violation.




You need the CCW AND a state or federally issued picture ID.



Jim, I think he meant using it as ID only, not if your carrying a gun. It is state issued, has a photo so it can be used as ID correct?



I was just trying to figure out what I need to carry when I have a CCW with me (about 99.9% of the time), and not be in violation of any laws. Right now it is CCWP, Blue Card, and DL. I really don't like having the BC with me. I have several different pistols on my permit, and I can't put all the BCs in my wallet without it taking up too much space (Costanza wallet). I usually go for a walk on my non-run days, and don't bring my wallet with me. It would be nice if I could just pull out my CCWP and throw it in a pocket and not be in violation of anything. No, it isn't much effort to grab my DL while I am at it, but if I don't really need it...

One thing I did was have my Blue Cards laminated, then I trimmed the edges off by tracing around them with an old credit card and a box cutter blade. They are just a bit smaller now (nothing but plain blue paper removed) and actually fit in a wallet. I would still like to leave them in my safe if possible.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:30:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

Originally Posted By ThePirate:
BTW, does my CCWP count as ID; do I even need my DL when I go for a walk, for example?



Nope:



NRS 202.3667 Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.

1. Each permittee shall carry the permit, or a duplicate issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.367, together with proper identification whenever the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed firearm. Both the permit and proper identification must be presented if requested by a peace officer.

2. A permittee who violates the provisions of this section is subject to a civil penalty of $25 for each violation.




You need the CCW AND a state or federally issued picture ID.



Jim, I think he meant using it as ID only, not if your carrying a gun. It is state issued, has a photo so it can be used as ID correct?



Probably, although it is not state-issued, only state-mandated. The card is issued by the Sheriff, so it is a county-issued card.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 11:16:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

Probably, although it is not state-issued, only state-mandated. The card is issued by the Sheriff, so it is a county-issued card.




.......thanks, Jim. You've probably just educated 99%+ of the readers here.
So, a CCW is a County-Sheriff issued ID card recognized (though NOT issued) by the State; and requires additional ID (state-issued) when out and about, as well as Blue Card in Clark County.......

and for so long many residents proudly considered NV to have "gun-friendly" laws.......
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 1:31:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 1:33:24 PM EDT by ishoot2live]

Originally Posted By JimMayhugh:

Probably, although it is not state-issued, only state-mandated. The card is issued by the Sheriff, so it is a county-issued card.



I once tried to cash a check at a bank that I did not have an account with and was asked for two forms of picture ID. I showed the teller my Nevada Driver License and Nevada CCW Permit. I was told that my CCW permit was not considered a valid form of picture ID and I would need to show something else.

I attempted to explain to the girl on the other side of the bullet resistant Lexan that my CCW permit was issued by the Sheriff of the county of which I reside, it has my signature, my full name and address along with an issue number, an issue date and an expiration date. After that entire explaination she still refused to accept my CCW permit as a second form of valid ID, and therefore she wouldn't cash the check.

After her refusal to cash the check I asked to see the manager. The manager came over and asked what the problem was. I explained everything to him and showed him my Driver License and CCW permit. He looked at the permit and said: "Oh, I've seen these before and it can be accepted as a second form of ID." Then he asked me if I was carrying a gun in HIS bank. I told him that was a personal question and I was under no obligation to answer it.

He went on to tell me that carrying a gun in a bank by anyone other than law enforcement is not only felony, it also puts everyone in the bank at risk. How does one respond to a moronic statement like that? I told him that the only ones who are at risk in HIS bank were his customers, because they didn't have the luxury of cowering behind a bullet resistant bubble.

I took my cash and I left.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 2:29:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:44:04 PM EDT
Thanks for the input JM. So unless someone else can come up with some really good reasoning why I should ditch my Blue Cards and DL, I guess I am going to be stuck with 'em.

Hey, who is complaining: I could still live in CA.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:57:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ThePirate:
Thanks for the input JM. So unless someone else can come up with some really good reasoning why I should ditch my Blue Cards and DL, I guess I am going to be stuck with 'em.

Hey, who is complaining: I could still live in CA.



Welcome to the 'Land of the Free" (for now).

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:43:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ishoot2live:
I once tried to cash a check at a bank that I did not have an account with and was asked for two forms of picture ID. I showed the teller my Nevada Driver License and Nevada CCW Permit. I was told that my CCW permit was not considered a valid form of picture ID and I would need to show something else.



That is not bad..... a moron at DMV would not accept my work ID (county issued) as valid. He wanted my driver's license. All because I wanted to turn in my old plates. Never mind that he could pull up my DL picture on his screen!!

He finally gave in....... he said people could be trying to inflict harm on others by turning in their plates......... I agree with the harm side since coming to DMV is so painful!
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 12:24:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By ishoot2live:
I once tried to cash a check at a bank that I did not have an account with and was asked for two forms of picture ID. I showed the teller my Nevada Driver License and Nevada CCW Permit. I was told that my CCW permit was not considered a valid form of picture ID and I would need to show something else.



That is not bad..... a moron at DMV would not accept my work ID (county issued) as valid. He wanted my driver's license. All because I wanted to turn in my old plates. Never mind that he could pull up my DL picture on his screen!!

He finally gave in....... he said people could be trying to inflict harm on others by turning in their plates......... I agree with the harm side since coming to DMV is so painful!



I lost my wallet once and went to by bank to get $100 for gas and lunch before going to work. Since I had no ATM card, DL, etc., I brought in my US Passport as ID. The conversation with the idiot teller at Washington Mutual went something like this:

Me: Hi, I need to make a withdrawl, but I lost my wallet.

Teller: Do you have any ID?

Me: I have my passport. (Hand it over.)

Teller: Oh, I am sorry sir, but this passport is expired.

Me: Yes, I know it is expired, but I lost all my ID - that is all I have right now with a photo.

Teller: Well, I can't accept an expired ID.

Me: (getting annoyed) Look lady, I am already going to be late for work. I need money to put gas in my car to get there. This is the only ID I have.

Teller: Sorry, I can't accept it.

Me: Well what would you accept?

Teller: A driver's license or your ATM card and a PIN, a military ID, or a valid passport.

Me: Didn't you hear me when I told you my wallet was lost? My ATM card and driver's license were in the wallet.

Teller: Do you have...

Me: Lady, I am not in the military, and you have my passport.

Teller: Yes, but it is expired.

Me: I am not trying to fly to Tiawan, I am trying to get some gas so I can GO TO WORK.

Teller: -blinks stupidly, but says nothing-

Me: Look, do you think this is a real U.S. passport?

Teller: Yes.

Me: Do you think that that is me in the picture?

Teller: Yes.

Me: So is it safe to assume that you believe I really am or was Xxxxxx Yyyyyyy?

Teller: Well, yes.

Me: Then why can't you get me my money?

Teller: Because the passport is expired.

Me: (losing it completely) Are you a complete fucking retard? Or are you just trying to piss me off?! Go get the clueless moron who hired you (a.k.a. the Manager) NOW so I can get my FUCKING MONEY!

After that the manager got there before the teller could even turn to get her. After hearing the story, and how I wasn't leaving the bank without gas money, she decided to call my home branch office. The people at this branch actually knew me personally. They also knew I used to run competively.

Manager: Are you a runner?

Me: Yes.

Manager: OK, go ahead and give him the money.



So in the end a yes/no question (that anyone with any sense could have guessed right) was judged to be a more acceptable form of ID than my expired passport! My money sure was safe...

When I got my wallet back, I went back to close my account, and both the manager and the teller in question were no longer employed there. I reconsidered closing the account since that was the only problem I had ever had with Wamu (and to be fair, have ever had). This was several years ago in CA BTW, not in NV.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 12:28:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ishoot2live:

Originally Posted By ThePirate:
Thanks for the input JM. So unless someone else can come up with some really good reasoning why I should ditch my Blue Cards and DL, I guess I am going to be stuck with 'em.

Hey, who is complaining: I could still live in CA.



Welcome to the 'Land of the Free" (for now).




Well, if it becomes East California, it won't be me who helped make it happen.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:14:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ThePirate:


I lost my wallet once and went to by bank to get $100 for gas and lunch before going to work. Since I had no ATM card, DL, etc., I brought in my US Passport as ID. The conversation with the idiot teller at Washington Mutual went something like this:

Me: Hi, I need to make a withdrawl, but I lost my wallet.

Teller: Do you have any ID?

Me: I have my passport. (Hand it over.)

Teller: Oh, I am sorry sir, but this passport is expired.

Me: Yes, I know it is expired, but I lost all my ID - that is all I have right now with a photo.

Teller: Well, I can't accept an expired ID.




In a lot of states, an expired ID is no longer valid for any purpose and in some cases, a person accepting an expired identification document can be violating the law. One such situation would be a bartender serving to someone without a current ID.

P.S. Don't try and use logic or common sense. It doesn't always work when dealing with the law or with bureaucracies.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 9:14:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

Don't try and use logic or common sense. It doesn't always work when dealing with the law or with bureaucracies.



Yeah, I have found anger and intimidation to be more effective. Sometimes, if you are enough of a PITA, they will give you your way just to get rid of you. If nothing else it serves as a little payback for the hassle. Obviously, you have to pick your targets wisely or it can backfire on you.
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