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Posted: 3/5/2006 10:53:54 PM EDT
I don't see RRA selling the LAR-10 stripped lowers anytime soon. Need some help..

Looking for a CA frendly FFL where I can pre-order the RRA LAR-10. Take the rifle apart when it arrives and ship only the stripped lower to my FFL in CA and ship the rest to me directly. I can drive there to strip it myself.

Thanks!

Link Posted: 3/6/2006 7:00:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 7:01:21 AM EDT by GryphonX]
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 7:03:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 7:04:37 AM EDT by Rick-James]
Not to give you a hard time, but is that legal? I work on my days off at a local gun shop, and pretty much anything without a wood stock seems to be a no no over there.
ETA: I guess it would have to be legal as your going through an FFL on your end.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 7:32:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike452:
I don't see RRA selling the LAR-10 stripped lowers anytime soon. Need some help..

Looking for a CA frendly FFL where I can pre-order the RRA LAR-10. Take the rifle apart when it arrives and ship only the stripped lower to my FFL in CA and ship the rest to me directly. I can drive there to strip it myself.

Thanks!




Why do you need to strip down the rifle?

Why do you need to send it to an FFL in NV before sending it to an FFL in CA?

I'm sure there's a perfectly legitimate and legal explanation for this peculiar sequence of shipments. But I don't see what it is ........ and I would need to before offering any help.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 7:52:43 AM EDT
Conspiracy to do what?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:01:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 9:04:24 AM EDT by pedro66]
its legal to ship/have any Semi auto receiver in CA it what you do with it after you have it

If you permanently fix in a 10 round mag before you build the rest then it is OK

But if you do mst other things then NO

But just the receiver the DOJ look on it as you could build a sportster for once the CA DOJ give the benefit of the doubt.

Strange I know but I worked for a FFL in CA and we asked.

If it has a fixed mag it can have all the evil features but if its an AR you have to pull the rear pin to load just like a FAB10 which is basically what you are building. Even Bushmaster ship a CA version

www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/azc-c15rm4ft.asp
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:06:29 AM EDT
Cliff notes version:

They are changing the laws in California because of loophole on the side of AR15 owners. The law states that specific model names of AR15's are illegal for ownership. RRA lowers (and others) were not named in that old law. People are purchasing the lower, waiting for the new law to be written, have their lower be banned, it's now grandfathered and then can be completed into complete, full magazine capacity "assualt rifle" (minus flash hider and bayonet lug).

The guy just wants to be able to own an AR15 in California the legal way. He's not trying to purchase one from the newspaper or at a gunshow. He wants to be able to legally own this rifle in CA.

thanks,
Ron
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:38:45 AM EDT
As well as the list of manufacturers they also have a list that defines an assault weapon by characteristics so they dont have to list any more by name.

You can find it here it is a riveting read
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:24:25 PM EDT
Yes, this is legal!

We can get stripped lowers that were not listed in the AW ban. Haven't you noticed there's a shortage on Mega, Stag, Double Star, Lauer stripped lowers in the U.S. They all came to CA..

The LAR-10 as it leaves RRA is not legal for CA. I have to strip it or take out the pistol grip and chuck the 20rd mag.

To make it legal, I have to reduce the 20rd mag to 10rd and lock the magazine in the gun with a nut. Living in CA have to deal with jerry-rig rifles!

It is not a loophole. It was declared by a judge that DOJ can not ban by using AR "type" description. They must name models and makes.

Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:14:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike452:
Yes, this is legal!

We can get stripped lowers that were not listed in the AW ban. Haven't you noticed there's a shortage on Mega, Stag, Double Star, Lauer stripped lowers in the U.S. They all came to CA..

The LAR-10 as it leaves RRA is not legal for CA. I have to strip it or take out the pistol grip and chuck the 20rd mag.

To make it legal, I have to reduce the 20rd mag to 10rd and lock the magazine in the gun with a nut. Living in CA have to deal with jerry-rig rifles!

It is not a loophole. It was declared by a judge that DOJ can not ban by using AR "type" description. They must name models and makes.




Try telling that to anyone who is an anti-gunner. That judge's decision created that loophole in your favor, not by choice, but by following the letter of the law.

thanks,
Ron
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:46:35 PM EDT
But they can and do ban them by description ie

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle capable of accepting detachable magazines and any of:

▪ a pistol grip protruding conspicuously below the weapon’s action

▪ a thumbhole stock or folding or telescopic stock;

▪ a flash suppressor, grenade launcher or flare launcher;

▪ a forward pistol grip.



A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with overall length of less than 30 inches;

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine holding over 10 rounds

You will note it all hangs on the magazine being detachable once that is gone (i.e a fixed magazine) then you can do fairly much what you want.

If I get right what you are doing is removing the pistol grip and changing the magazine this still allows the pistol grip to be installed back with no problem, I can tell you from experience the DOJ will not allow this you would need to cut off the pistol grip mount so it can't be used. Please be careful they are looking for just this kind of thing to make an example. I would be interested to read this judge's ruling do you have a link?


Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:31:28 PM EDT
IMO the law will never change. As it is, you won't be able to turn your lower into an AW so why would they change it (the law) so you can? We have been doing this with FALs for years and they haven't changed the law for those yet. The only reason they will change it for ARs is because you guys are making a big stink out of it.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 6:59:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 7:00:44 AM EDT by PEACE_MINUS_ONE]

Originally Posted By pedro66:
But they can and do ban them by description ie

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle capable of accepting detachable magazines and any of:

▪ a pistol grip protruding conspicuously below the weapon’s action

▪ a thumbhole stock or folding or telescopic stock;

▪ a flash suppressor, grenade launcher or flare launcher;

▪ a forward pistol grip.

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with overall length of less than 30 inches;

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine holding over 10 rounds

You will note it all hangs on the magazine being detachable once that is gone (i.e a fixed magazine) then you can do fairly much what you want.

If I get right what you are doing is removing the pistol grip and changing the magazine this still allows the pistol grip to be installed back with no problem, I can tell you from experience the DOJ will not allow this you would need to cut off the pistol grip mount so it can't be used. Please be careful they are looking for just this kind of thing to make an example. I would be interested to read this judge's ruling do you have a link?





A california man took them to court because his ar-15 were taken from him by the BATFE and his guns were not named on the list, buy mfg. He won the case and now in CA you can buy ar 15 recievers as long as they are completely stripped and not listed on the ban list my Mfg. The CA DOJ just didnt update the list when new manufacturers started up and now it is bitting them in the ass. Even if they get the recievers into the state and registered chances are nobody will ever be able to build them. The state has made up a new class of weapon for this loophole, I think they are calling them class 4 but I cant remember exactly. Something about being able to posese the firearm as long as it is never assembled. So now some one has to take the state to court again and try to get these guns grandfathered in. I guess If i lived in CA still I would be tring too,.

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 10:29:58 AM EDT
California Sucks.
What drama....
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 2:29:48 AM EDT
An unassembled AR lower, or a completed rifle with a fixed 10 round magazine does not meet the description of an "assault rifle". If the brand of lower isn't listed by name either, it is then legal. In other words, a stripped Bushy or Colt lower (named on the list) is banned because it is listed by name, not because it has an features they don't like. But, but, but... didn't work with the judge this time!

Anyone's guess on whether they ban them later and grandfather them. I personally would rather have a detachable magazine than a bayonette lug or flash hider; so it stands to reason that they will just leave it alone and make everyone keep their FAB-10 style weapon. One nice thing is that you can always assemble it properly after moving out of CA and have a real, non-neutered AR-15.
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