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Posted: 2/21/2006 3:08:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 3:59:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 4:01:41 PM EDT by ishoot2live]
The Fucking media. They couldn't write an article without using the word "assault."

Writer: Mr. Editor, there was no mention of "assault weapons" when I interviewed police about the standoff.

Editor: I don't give a shit! The truth doesn't sell newspapers! Find a way to put the word "assault" in that article otherwise YOUR FIRED!

Writer: Yyyessss Sir....

Words that could have been used in place of assault: advance, charge, incursion, offensive, onset, onslaught, storm, storming, strike. Any of the aforementioned words would work. But nooooo, they have to drum the Fucking word ASSAULT into our brains every single day.....

*************************************­*********************************************­*

Gunman arrested after slaying, standoff at Harrah's

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


Police blasted out a 20th story window and stormed a room at a Las Vegas Strip hotel-casino Tuesday, arresting a suspected gunman who authorities say killed another man and shot at police and paramedics during a six-hour standoff.

No shots were fired in the final assault, and police denied initial reports that SWAT officers rappelled down Harrah's hotel-casino and crashed through the window during an assault on room 2036.

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"We were forced to take out an outside window in our attempts to take him into custody," police Sgt. Chris Jones said. He described shattering the window on the 29-story Carnival tower as a tactical diversion.

Guests were evacuated from several nearby floors, but the casino remained open during the standoff.

Jim Hack, 31, a stockbroker from Phoenix, said he heard two gunshots about 12:30 a.m., opened his door and saw a man in his mid-30s bleeding in the hallway several rooms away.

"He was crying for help and he was having trouble breathing," said Hack, who said he closed his door and called security while the wounded man pleaded for someone to pull him into an adjacent room. Hack said police ordered him to evacuate about 1 a.m.

The gunman shot into the hallway as police and paramedics arrived during the initial hectic minutes after the victim was mortally wounded, Jones said, and the victim was conscious when police rescued him. He was pronounced dead later at a hospital.

The suspected gunman also shot out of the room as SWAT officers got in place for the standoff and assault, Jones said, adding there were clear signs of a struggle between the gunman and the man who died after the original shooting.

Police fired no shots during the initial encounter with the gunman, during the standoff or during the assault on the 20th floor, Jones said.

Guests in sleep clothes and robes were evacuated from the 19th, 20th and 21st floors and offered blankets and food at the hotel buffet, Harrah's spokesman Alberto Lopez said.

The gunman and the dead man were identified as guests at the 1,275-room hotel, but their names were not immediately made public.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:54:20 PM EDT
Between the media's use of their favorite word lately (assault) and these idiots shooting people/police...I'm going to need blood pressure meds.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:18:28 PM EDT
What is the problem with assault in that context? During a MOUT op we "assault" the village. "Assault weapons" is one thing but the word "assault" best describes what SWAT does in my opinion.

Have a Coke and a smile brother and save your energy for the Pro-gun fight.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:49:09 PM EDT
Or sister in my case. I'll take a beer instead.

Some folks understand the context. But most the sheeple only hear the word "assault" and it gets them in a frenzy.

Heck, when that story aired locally about being able to buy "assault weapons" on ebay (the Tippman paintball gun), my mom really though you could buy such things through them. I had to spend 10 minutes explaining to her that it was a paintball gun, and that watching the news was as accurate as reading the Enquirer. Mom's 69 years old though - she didn't know what a paintball gun was, lol.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 9:20:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By buttercupp:
Or sister in my case. I'll take a beer instead.

Some folks understand the context. But most the sheeple only hear the word "assault" and it gets them in a frenzy.

Heck, when that story aired locally about being able to buy "assault weapons" on ebay (the Tippman paintball gun), my mom really though you could buy such things through them. I had to spend 10 minutes explaining to her that it was a paintball gun, and that watching the news was as accurate as reading the Enquirer. Mom's 69 years old though - she didn't know what a paintball gun was, lol.



Oh I comletely understand that. I come from a ultra liberal family so you can imagine what Christams is like for me!

But, IShoot is getting old and I wouldn't want him to have a heartattack over the word assault.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 9:47:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 9:48:48 PM EDT by ishoot2live]

Originally Posted By ANIMUS:

But, IShoot is getting old and I wouldn't want him to have a heartattack over the word assault.



Dude,

I'm not having a "heart attack" over the word "assault," I'm just getting tired of hearing it.

I said it once and I'll say it again: "Words that could have been used in place of assault: advance, charge, incursion, offensive, onset, onslaught, storm, storming, strike. Any of the aforementioned words would work. But nooooo, they have to drum the Fucking word ASSAULT into our brains every single day....."

There is one way to chop down a sapling and one way to chop down a full-grown tree.

A sapling is felled with one strike of the axe and a full-grown tree is felled with many strikes of the axe.

Our freedoms are the full-grown tree and if we continue to allow "many strikes" to be swung at those freedoms our "Tree of Liberty" will be felled.

Perhaps I am getting old, but remember this Animus: with each minute of getting old, a minute of wisdom is gained.....
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:55:20 AM EDT
How about "tactical entry"? Could also be used interchangeably for rapists' actions.
It's the back side of the double edged sword that is double speak.

DOUBLEPLUSGOOD!

Joe, I know where you are coming from on this. You'd think that people who pride themselves on their education could expand their vocabulary some. And I say have a Redbull and get wound up and tell us how it really is!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:16:01 PM EDT
Hell, guys like Collingwood have trained their entire adult life for that shit.

Getting to actually rope down the side of a hotel, and crash through a window on the twentysomething floor was only a dream for them - until then.

I suspect that whoever it was, had to clean the FRONT of their underwear when it was all over. Some of them might have gone off twice.

As for the "assault" part of it, well the term was at least accurate.


Lem
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:42:12 PM EDT
This is why I carry. Everywhere. When I go to SHOT in Vegas in a couple years, I don't care if my GA permit isn't recognized in NV.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:08:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lem:
Hell, guys like Collingwood have trained their entire adult life for that shit.

Getting to actually rope down the side of a hotel, and crash through a window on the twentysomething floor was only a dream for them - until then.

I suspect that whoever it was, had to clean the FRONT of their underwear when it was all over. Some of them might have gone off twice.

As for the "assault" part of it, well the term was at least accurate.


Lem


Is there any footage of them breeching the window? That would be cool to see.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:47:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By footrat:
This is why I carry. Everywhere. When I go to SHOT in Vegas in a couple years, I don't care if my GA permit isn't recognized in NV.



Just a FYI....

If you are caught, you will lose your gun. The charge holds a 6 month to 1 year sentence. Although this is completely unheard of. The fine is the norm along with a stay out of trouble sentence.

If you are over .08 and in possession, it will be another charge.

Had a similar thing happen here recently with a SHOT patron....the guy was a complete moron and gave ALL gun owners a bad name.

Someone out there has to have footage of the breach.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:54:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 11:55:54 PM EDT by ishoot2live]

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By footrat:
This is why I carry. Everywhere. When I go to SHOT in Vegas in a couple years, I don't care if my GA permit isn't recognized in NV.



Just a FYI....

If you are caught, you will lose your gun. The charge holds a 6 month to 1 year sentence. Although this is completely unheard of. The fine is the norm along with a stay out of trouble sentence.

If you are over .08 and in possession, it will be another charge.

Had a similar thing happen here recently with a SHOT patron....the guy was a complete moron and gave ALL gun owners a bad name.

Someone out there has to have footage of the breach.




Hey RDP,

You forgot to inform Mr. Footrat that carrying concealed in Nevada without a valid Nevada CCW permit is a Cat. C Felony.

Some people just ask for trouble.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:54:22 AM EDT
You are right......I forgot it changed.

My penalties were incorrect. It is now a 1-4 year sentence.

Not that I personally care about good people carrying concealed, but being an asshat usually draws attention. If security at a casino nabs ya, you may be done too.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:33:47 AM EDT
Like I said, I carry my blaster. It's the whole 6 or 12 cliche. Vegas isn't all flashy lights and pretty buildings, as proven in this news story.

I don't drink, so the BAC is a non-issue. I also keep my firearms concealed, so being caught with it is also a non-issue. The power of concealed carry isn't in the "carry," it's in the "concealed." I know the legal dangers of such.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:08:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By footrat:
I don't drink, so the BAC is a non-issue. I also keep my firearms concealed, so being caught with it is also a non-issue. The power of concealed carry isn't in the "carry," it's in the "concealed." I know the legal dangers of such.



You don't know what it's like;
You don't have a clue.
If you did you'd find yourselves;
Doing the same thing too.


While I appreciate your give-'em-hell lackadaisical attitude regarding our nation's ridiculous restraint on our collective right to carry a weapon, you're just begging to see what the inside of a State Prison looks like, man.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:27:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 2:03:50 PM EDT by ishoot2live]

Originally Posted By footrat:
Like I said, I carry my blaster. It's the whole 6 or 12 cliche. Vegas isn't all flashy lights and pretty buildings, as proven in this news story.

I don't drink, so the BAC is a non-issue. I also keep my firearms concealed, so being caught with it is also a non-issue. The power of concealed carry isn't in the "carry," it's in the "concealed." I know the legal dangers of such.



Footrat,

I can appreciate the fact that you would rather be "tried by 12 than carried by six," but Las Vegas Metro Police (and surrounding LEA's) DO NOT take kindly to persons carrying handguns concealed without a valid Nevada CCW permit. A few years ago carrying a concealed handgun without a permit was bumped up to a Category C Felony from a simple Misdemeanor. Personally I wouldn't risk it if I were you.

The SHOT Show will not be back in Las Vegas until 2007. Why don't you plan a little getaway sometime before SHOT comes back and take the CCW course and apply for a Nevada CCW permit as an out of state resident? Then you will be covered. I am CCW instructor and I can definately get you squared away. In 2006 the SHOT Show will be held in Orlando, Florida, and if you possess a valid Georgia CCW permit you will be covered there....

Believe me, the airfare, hotel, class tuition and filing fees associated with obtaining a Nevada CCW permit certainly outweigh a Felony charge.

Hope this helps.

Joe
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:16:44 PM EDT
NV is gay. They don't recognize a single other state's permit.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:21:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 2:36:40 PM EDT by Wolfpack]
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:04:13 PM EDT
Many of those are changing this legislative season. The Red Lobster bill will allow us to carry in places that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises. Another bill mirrors FL's castle doctrine. Another specifically states that you can keep firearms in your vehicle while at work, so that your employer can't outlaw firearms on the property. There are a few others. But as I said, I carry my gun.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:59:37 PM EDT

........yeah, those are all PENDING legislation.
Besides, YOU are the reason WE have such "carry" laws; (although maybe not you specifically) all the damn yahoos coming to town drinking and gambling and such, letting loose with inhibitions being "away from home" and historically shooting up the place(FACT). Just what we want........at least you CAN carry here open (legal in GA?)
An unfortunate situation, admittedly; for those law-abiding visitors feeling unprotected. (If you're that determined, do as Joe says; GET A PERMIT! Hell, even NYS permits are not recognized in NYC!)
Besides publicly announcing your criminal intentions, got any other ideas????????
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:16:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By footrat:
NV is gay. They don't recognize a single other state's permit.



I would do some fancy footwork and fix your gay comment about Nevada.

I don't think it's very wise to publicly admit to that you are going to ignore the law and commit a Felony while you are visiting someplace, and then call it GAY.

Just an observation.....

PS: I have Bucky Buchannon's number. Looks like you might need it the next time you visit Las Vegas.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:03:46 PM EDT
Hire Bucky and you will end up in prison

The way he fails to show up in court as your attorney, he may end up there with you!!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:05:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RDP:
Hire Bucky and you will end up in prison

The way he fails to show up in court as your attorney, he may end up there with you!!



Ok, Ok, I give!

How about John Wawerna?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:36:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By citizen2:
........yeah, those are all PENDING legislation.
Besides, YOU are the reason WE have such "carry" laws; (although maybe not you specifically) all the damn yahoos coming to town drinking and gambling and such, letting loose with inhibitions being "away from home" and historically shooting up the place(FACT). Just what we want........at least you CAN carry here open (legal in GA?)
An unfortunate situation, admittedly; for those law-abiding visitors feeling unprotected. (If you're that determined, do as Joe says; GET A PERMIT! Hell, even NYS permits are not recognized in NYC!)
Besides publicly announcing your criminal intentions, got any other ideas????????



No, I'm pretty sure that a lack of individual responsibility and left-leaning politicians is the reason you've got the carry laws you've got. I myself spent about $25 total on gambling. I don't drink, I really don't do anything. I carry to protect myself FROM those people you seem to think carry laws are there to restrict. The fact that one is required to take a gov't approved class is also silly. That's just more money and another way to regulate the 2nd amendment. I think all carry permits are silly, just so you know. When I go to FL, I'll be getting one of their out of state permits to allow me to LEGALLY carry in as many states as possible, but I shouldn't HAVE to. That's my point. NO state should put such restrictions on the manner in which a man can defend himself.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:48:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By footrat:

No, I'm pretty sure that a lack of individual responsibility and left-leaning politicians is the reason you've got the carry laws you've got. I myself spent about $25 total on gambling. I don't drink, I really don't do anything. I carry to protect myself FROM those people you seem to think carry laws are there to restrict. The fact that one is required to take a gov't approved class is also silly. That's just more money and another way to regulate the 2nd amendment. I think all carry permits are silly, just so you know. When I go to FL, I'll be getting one of their out of state permits to allow me to LEGALLY carry in as many states as possible, but I shouldn't HAVE to. That's my point. NO state should put such restrictions on the manner in which a man can defend himself.



Footrat,

I can appreciate your views on the issues, but as a professional firearms instructor I must take an instructor's viewpoint and respond in that capacity.

We have very good concealed carry laws in the State of Nevada. Responsible, law-abiding gun owners should not (and most don't) have a problem with background checks that weed out felons and mental incompetents. Those same law-abiding gun owners usually do not object to proper training for those that wish to carry concealed in public, and proper training is always positive taking into consideration that shooting (especially defensive shooting) is a learned skill that diminishes over time... especially under stress. This is why I strongly support higher training standards and criminal history checks.

With that said, I do agree that the masses are often penalized for the actions of a few (my own words) and if there are not checks and balances in place there will be a mixture of competent and incompetent citizens carrying in public, and within that mixture there will be some that have been properly trained and some that will make it up as they go along. Unfortunately, those that make it up as they go along have a propensity to cause more harm than good. And that my friend puts both you and me at risk. Remember this: The battlefield is not the place to devise a battle plan.

As far as fees go: CCW bureaus at law enforcemment agencies across the country need to fund the employees that run and oversee the training and background checks. If we lived in a perfect world there would be no training, no background checks and no application fees. And please don't give me the "well it works in Vermont" diatribe. Vermont does not have the melting pot of cultures and mindsets that we have here in Las Vegas and most other major cities and metropolitan areas.

The bottom line is citizens that wish to carry concealed need proper training and background checks need to be conducted not only for shooting skills, but for the legal aspects as well. These requirements are the reality of carrying concealed legally. LEGALLY.

If you travel to Las Vegas before SHOT Show '07 you can take my course which includes all the paperwork and fingerprint cards for the states of Nevada, Florida and Utah. If you don't take my course take a course here in Las Vegas and get a CCW permit, because if you come to Las Vegas for the SHOT Show in '07 and you brag that you are carrying concealed without a valid Nevada CCW permit not many NVHTF board members will want to make contact with you. Not to mention you will also run the risk of getting arrested for a Felony.

Be Safe.

Joe
OUT
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:33:19 AM EDT
Unfortunately, you've got little (if any) credibility here with us.


Originally Posted By footrat:
No, I'm pretty sure that a lack of individual responsibility and left-leaning politicians is the reason you've got the carry laws you've got.
(and I'm pretty sure you have no idea what you're talking about, it's the "lack of individual responsibility" of visitors that prompts the non-reciprocity regs.)

I myself spent about $25 total on gambling. I don't drink, I really don't do anything.
(other than publicly proclaim felonious intentions........)

I carry to protect myself FROM those people you seem to think carry laws are there to restrict.
(Las Vegas plays host to the broadest spectrum of assholes, both domestic and interational; some 50 million of them annually............. since these are the ones you wish to protect yourself from, you're self-defeating and illogical by joining them. )

The fact that one is required to take a gov't approved class is also silly. That's just more money and another way to regulate the 2nd amendment. I think all carry permits are silly, just so you know.
(I also know of your hypocrisy, you're not residing in either of those states that have legislated your philosophy; and will not get drawn into THAT debate.)

When I go to FL, I'll be getting one of their out of state permits to allow me to LEGALLY carry in as many states as possible, but I shouldn't HAVE to. That's my point. NO state should put such restrictions on the manner in which a man can defend himself.
(In a "perfect world", maybe.
Again, FYI; NV recognizes "open carry" (even for visitors). Does GA???
Be careful of that word and it's use, "should".........(a pet peeve of mine)
........and your "point" of state restrictions on self-defense.......sounds like typical "anti" gearshifting to distract focus from the original issue. Apparently, you're above the Law (??), picking and choosing which States you will "LEGALLY" carry in and which you won't. Another reason why you have no credibility here.
Don't consider this a personal attack, not intended as such; just a reasoned response to (IMHO) a provocative, almost troll-like post. I've violated my own standards by this engagement, and nearly regret this. Meanwhile, "The only thing necessary for Evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing." That's my story, an' I'm stickin' to it.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:16:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 6:18:27 AM EDT by Wolfpack]
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:03:22 AM EDT
Don't you guys have to register your firearms, too? And you can only carry those firearms with which you've taken that "class" to get your permit?

The problem with requiring classes by law is that it's an easy avenue by which the regulatory body can turn the screws on people who want to carry. They make the classes more expensive and fewer in number. Then they start slapping more restrictions on who can and cannot carry. This does not even address the fact that those classes by and large are retarded. They cover a bare minimum of information, and then let people loose, giving them a false sense of learning. The required classes are a joke. I've spoken to countless people from NV and LV about having to take those classes. Now, yours may be some exception to the rule. Maybe you somehow cram a few days' worth of classroom and range time into however many hours your class is, but for everyone else, it can't possibly be enough time to convey the kind of information required to actually get someone ready to fight with a pistol. After that class, most people just go about their business and never take another class in their lives to further their learning. That's no better than any state that DOESN'T require a class. People who take the class in your state end up about as educated on firearms handling and actual shooting as most shooters in other states, because they learn as they go along. Or they were taught more information elsewhere. Do not take this to mean that I think classes should be mandatorily longer or more in-depth. I do not think classes should be mandatory at all. I think everyone who owns a firearm with the intent of using it to defend themselves or other should constantly train. It's a mindset issue, and the state's mandatory classes totally pass that over. You can't legislate mindset.

Your argument about open carry is void. Open carry is useless. As I've stated already, the important part of concealed carry is not the "carry," but rather, the "concealed." Why on Earth would you make a big deal about being able to openly carry? Do you like advertising to everyone that you should be the first target? Do you like letting everyone know that you have a firearm, so that when someone starts petty bullshit with you, they can right off the bat tell the cops all kinds of lies about how you threatened them with your firearm? How is open carry useful? No, GA has no provision for open carry. You can carry any way you like on private property, so if you want to do it on your farm in GA, no big deal. You want to do it at work, no big deal. You want to do it in public? Why? In what advantageous position does it put you?

Now, here we are, bickering back and forth about "My state's firearm laws are better than yours." This is like the "my dad can beat up your dad" bullshit of yore. Both our states have some shortcomings when it comes to firearm laws. GA taking steps this legislative session to pass six separate bills on concealed carry, all of them allowing more freedom. I'm not sure why a couple of you are acting all tough and hard, like you're going to call the cops on me the next time you hear I'm in town. I thought we were all firearm owners, and I thought we were all on the same side. I guess not. Seems like some of you get off on telling everyone else what to do, and playing the hero by trying to enforce dumb laws yourselves. Have fun with that.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:11:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

So right there you can't carry at any place that serves beer or wine, no sporting events, no church...do you realize how much that limits you? Don't try and take your bf/gf or whatever out to dinner to Olive Garden, legally you can't carry BUT your an internet badass so it probably dosn't affect you.

www.packing.org/state/georgia/



Oooh, you called me an internet badass. Ouch. Actually, I'm a real-life practically-minded individual. I follow the mindset of, "Carry your fucking gun."

Now, this all started because some guy got shot in a casino. I said, "Hey, that's why I carry everywhere." My point being that the fantastic carry laws of every state still don't seem to stop the bullets from hitting people in those places where you can't carry. After all, isn't it against the law to carry in the casinos? If it's not outright prohibited by law, you'd certainly be guilty of trespassing like that, because the casinos don't allow you to do it, and have signs up against it. Somehow, that failed to protect the man that died in the hallway, bleeding to death. That was my point. If I go to Red Lobster with my friends, and someone comes in there to shoot their ex-girlfriend, who is working as a server that night, carry laws aren't going to stop him from doing it, nor from shooting anyone else. As stated, 6 or 12.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:14:02 PM EDT
God, I can't take you people anywhere. I appreciate Footrat's devotion to an ideal to which I also strongly adhere. Yes, it's absolute bullshit that we're required by some stiff-necked thug in a Khaki uniform and jackboots to be forced to carry a dumb green laminated card on us at all times indicating that we have trained and qualified on a sidearm of our choosing and that we can engage in a Constituionally-protected-and-encouraged activity. Your vitriol, my friend, is applauded.

However. This is the Nevada Hometown forum, dogg. Wolfpack and Ishoot2live (I always end up typing that as "Ishoot2love" - maybe you should look into changing your handle?) are the Old Guard Establishment around these here parts, their opinions are respected simply because one is a shooting instructor and has a close working relationship with the City of Las Vegas Metro Police Department. Being as such, he knows the rules and regulations regarding the aspects of weapon ownership in the Great State of Nevada in general and the County of Clark in particular. His opinion should be taken as a valid commentary on the state of affairs in both jurisdictions.

Wolfpack is like a pool boy or something. He was the first member here, so I guess that counts for something. If you find a body floating face down in your above-ground ten footer, then I think that his opinion is likewise valid and should be accepted. He's also the Forum Moderator, so don't be a douchebag (first hand experience speaking ^___________^).

If I were to liken this entire scenario to a Space Moose comic strip, I'd have to say that it most likely resembles The Great Debate, as seen below:



The Nevada Board members are the well-thought and rational Capitalist, whereas Footrat is the Anarchist - Idealistic, wide-eyed, ready to take on the world with his amazing vitriol and venom! Go out and get 'em, Footrat! Bite down and never let loose!

I'm the Nihilist. Shut up or I'll force a fair bullet up your ass.

Walter Sobchak had something to say about Nihilists:

"Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos!"


I have no idea where I was going with this. Carry on.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:51:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 2:01:47 PM EDT
Ishoot2live may be an instructor and lick the boots of the Metro PD, but he has the fighting mindset of a rock.

MeanSteve, acting like people who have taken a mandatory firearms class are actually trained to a level of any sort of competency is just wrong. Plenty of people with NO formal training are far more capable of carrying and fighting with a pistol than are many people who have taken a mandatory class. Not to mention that you're not allowed to carry a pistol with which you haven't taken that mandatory class. If you want to try to argue that there's some sort of logic in that, go ahead, but that's wrong as well. That firearm skills do not translate from one weapon to the next is absurd, and requiring by law that each weapon be registered and taught in a class is equally rediculous. Somehow the user completely loses all abilities previously learned just by switching weapons? Retarded.

As for giving respect just because you've been on an internet discussion forum forever...that's quite silly. This isn't some caste system, where the new guy bows down to everyone else. We're on the internet for crying out loud. We're all equals. If you want to act like you're more than anyone else on the internet, have fun, but that's kind of wasting your time.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 2:04:56 PM EDT
Look I think its about the individuals right to

1 Self defence

2 The Right To An Opinion

The way I see it if Cleetus wants to come to town and carry Daddies shotgun then we should agree that he has every right to do so.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 2:10:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 2:13:54 PM EDT by ishoot2live]
Footrat,

You drew first blood on this issue.

You came to our HTF bragging that you were coming to the SHOT Show in '07 and that you were going to ignore our laws. What makes you so special that you think you can just blow into our fair city and break the same laws that WE have to follow? Do you have some sort of in with our local PD, or do you have a "Get Out of Jail Free" card stuck somewhere in your wallet?

I don't know how they do it back yonder in Hazzard County, Mr. Luke Duke, but here in Las Vegas we adhere to chapter and verse. We may not agree with what the law says or requires us to do, but we follow it anyway because we are law-abiding citizens and the law is the law. Until we can change what we don't agree with in the law, I guess we will just have to continue being good citizens.

You are correct about required training that is often weak and not enough information for the student. There are some schools (or at least they call themselves schools) that just herd the masses through the front door for a cheap price, and then several hours later they rubber stamp them out the back door. All applicants have to do is meet a minium training requirement and they are on their way to concealed carry heaven. Then there are very dedicated, skilled and knowledgeble instructors who truly care about teaching their students proper skills, positive mindset, avoiding a violent confrontation, and what the law states and how to keep out of jail. These instructors and schools are very few and far between.

You are incorrect about carrying in casinos and hotels. There is no statute in Nevada that supports the posting of private property in regards to firearms. The only provision a private property owner has should for any reason an individual refuse to leave the premises is the Trespass law.

Most, if not all hotel casinos in Las Vegas do not prohibit their guests who are staying at the hotel from bringing firearms into their room. Some have no weapons signs at the front doors, but once again if you were to ignore those signs and carry anyway the worst that could happen is you would be Trespassed.

Carrying at the SHOT Show IS illegal. Permit or not. You can be cited or arrested of you are caught carrying at the show. It has nothing to do with the rules of the show promoters (which restrict bringing private firearms into the show to begin with) it has to do with the fact that the Las Vegas Convention Center is owned and operated by the County, and statute states that you cannot carry a concealed weapon on the premises of any building that is owned or occupied by the City, County, State, or Federal Government.

If you choose to come here and break the law you are on your own. All I can say is you will get no sympathy from me, because if a person intentionally plans on breaking the law they deserve whatever they get.

Good Luck.

Joe
OUT
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 2:12:44 PM EDT
Wow Steve!

He's chastizing you even though you agreed with him

Footrat - you're being argumentative, even with those people who are agreeing with you on points.

You're doing little here other than alienating fellow gun owners.

There are the makings of several great discussions in this thread, but I see everyone getting pissy at eachother.

I, for one, vote that either people exercise some temperance and patience, or this whole thing gets kicked to The Pit so the fighting can continue where it belongs.

These issues are not Black-and-White, at least not for every individual.

Footrat, you may see it as a straightforward issue: You have the right to defend your life, and gub'ment be damned!

But for others, shrugging off inconvenient laws isn't an option.

Both perspectives have their merits, and it sounds like those people who have weighed their options and made their decisions will no longer accept any discussion on the matter. Bully for those who know where their convictions lie, but exploring the nuances of the laws and the trade-offs between uncompromising self-protection vs. abiding by the laws is still a valid and healthy exercise for many gun owners.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:05:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By footrat:
Ishoot2live may be an instructor and lick the boots of the Metro PD, but he has the fighting mindset of a rock.
MeanSteve, acting like people who have taken a mandatory firearms class are actually trained to a level of any sort of competency is just wrong. Plenty of people with NO formal training are far more capable of carrying and fighting with a pistol than are many people who have taken a mandatory class. Not to mention that you're not allowed to carry a pistol with which you haven't taken that mandatory class. If you want to try to argue that there's some sort of logic in that, go ahead, but that's wrong as well. That firearm skills do not translate from one weapon to the next is absurd, and requiring by law that each weapon be registered and taught in a class is equally rediculous. Somehow the user completely loses all abilities previously learned just by switching weapons? Retarded.

As for giving respect just because you've been on an internet discussion forum forever...that's quite silly. This isn't some caste system, where the new guy bows down to everyone else. We're on the internet for crying out loud. We're all equals. If you want to act like you're more than anyone else on the internet, have fun, but that's kind of wasting your time.



Lick boots? Fighting mindset of a rock?

Now you're lobbing personal attacks against someone who you know absolutely nothing about. You did have some points worthy of debate, but that credibility was lost when you jumped off running your mouth trying to start shit.

My advice to you there plow jockey is to either quit while you are ahead or play nice.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:27:15 PM EDT
Footrat,
when are you coming to Las Vegas with your concealed firearm?
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:30:59 PM EDT


Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:51:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MeanSteve:
the City of Las Vegas Metro Police Department.



City???

Nope, it's a county agency. Has been that way for 30+ years.

Can't let Oscar have any control of the joint
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:25:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 3:35:10 PM EDT
is this whole thing in regards to a victim 'Phillip McElrath(sp?)'?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 9:25:04 PM EDT
FUCK the Red Lobster..................
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