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Posted: 9/14/2010 5:25:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 5:37:31 PM EDT by fabledviper]
I am finally ready to get into the NFA world and I figure my first purchase will be a can. I am familiar with the general process, but I need clarifying on some specifics. Any advice you guys could give would be greatly appreciated.

1. Who is my Chief LEO (village police chief or county sheriff)? I live a a village with a police chief and I put in a call to his office today. I left a message with the police clerk, but he has not responded.

2.If my town police chief refuses to sign my form 4; will my County Sheriff's signature work?

3. If neither will sign; are there any good NFA trust lawyers in WI?

4. Where do I get the fingerprint cards? Will standard police dept. cards work?

5. I am looking at an AAC can. Do any dealers in WI. stock them? If not, could you please recommend a good class 3 dealer in the southern part of the state?

6. What are the regulations for storing a can? Does it have to be in a safe?

7. Do you need to have it engraved. If so, are there any good places in WI?

Thanks in advance. It feels like this is going to be a long and difficult process. I hope you guys can help make if feel a little less so.

ETA: advise to advice
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 5:49:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 5:56:57 PM EDT by loamy]
Generally the CLEO is the county Sheriff. I've never heard of any state that makes you engrave. If the Sheriff wont sign then the only way is a trust. If you have to go through alot to get a can then dont buy AAC as they have aweful Customer Service. Dont be fooled by their glossy magazine ads and their phoney independant website(silencertalk). Go with SilencerCo, SWR or Gemtech and try to find a dealer in state that has what you want IN STOCK to avoid an additional form 3 and 2+ month wait. Keep the can as you would safe with your firearms but always have a copy of the form 4 with it. Fingerprint cards are the ones only the FBI uses so its better to go to a professional. Some police stations use their own variety which wont suffice. Enjoy
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 5:50:11 PM EDT
1. Talk to Prebans
2. Talk to Prebans
3. Talk to Prebans
4. Talk to Prebans
5. Talk to Prebans
6. Talk to Prebans
7. Talk to Prebans

So what I'm trying to say is you should probably talk to Prebans.



P.S. Good luck!
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 5:56:44 PM EDT
1,2,3,4. Form a trust, avoid the hassle of LEO sign-off. I used quicken willmaker to make a trust as did many others, get the older version off of ebay for about $20.
5. There are a couple dealers that post here often, talk to Green0 or Prebans (I think). I don't know about stocking.
6. No regulations that I'm aware of.
7. A (legal) can will come with all of the engraving necessary unless you make it yourself.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 6:11:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fabledviper:
I am finally ready to get into the NFA world and I figure my first purchase will be a can. I am familiar with the general process, but I need clarifying on some specifics. Any advice you guys could give would be greatly appreciated.

1. Who is my Chief LEO (village police chief or county sheriff)? I live a a village with a police chief and I put in a call to his office today. I left a message with the police clerk, but he has not responded. If you live in the village, the chief.

2.If my town police chief refuses to sign my form 4; will my County Sheriff's signature work? Yes, you can also try the DA

3. If neither will sign; are there any good NFA trust lawyers in WI? Yes, but Willmaker is also very popular.

4. Where do I get the fingerprint cards? Will standard police dept. cards work? Go to the ATF website, find the "Form request" page. They will send you the necessary cards free of charge. Don't depend on the PD having the correct card.

5. I am looking at an AAC can. Do any dealers in WI. stock them? If not, could you please recommend a good class 3 dealer in the southern part of the state? Not many dealers stock many things that I'm aware of. I'm sure a few do, but aside from proprietary products like Green0 (Griffin Armament) or Lauer Custom Weaponry, they generally order what you want, or you order it and have it sent to them for transfer when your paperwork clears.

6. What are the regulations for storing a can? Does it have to be in a safe? I'm unaware of state regulations for the storage of a silencer. Federal regulations depend on how you register it. If you form a Trust or Corp, and multiple people are on the Trust or Corp, those people can all be "in possession" of the silencer. If you do a CLEO sign off and register it to yourself, only you may be "in possession" of the silencer. This small difference means that if you're not home and your wife or son have access to your silencer, they may be considered "in possession" of it. I have however never heard of anyone being prosecuted under this premise. I won't say it hasn't happened, just that I've not heard of it. I store my NFA items in a separate safe from the "main" gunsafe that my wife has access to.

7. Do you need to have it engraved. If so, are there any good places in WI? Engraving is a concern if you're going to build the silencer and register it on a Form 1. Then you are the "manufacturer" and must mark it according to regulation. If you are purchasing, as you indicated, an AAC silencer, it will be engraved by them, since they are the manufacturer.

Thanks in advance. It feels like this is going to be a long and difficult process. I hope you guys can help make if feel a little less so. Long, not difficult. Once you have one NFA item in the safe, it will seem a big to do over nothing, and you'll be planning your next purchase or build before you know it.

ETA: advise to advice


Link Posted: 9/14/2010 6:57:10 PM EDT
Thank you all for the information. I will IM Prebans. Although, I have a few more questions:

1. I am torn between a Gem-tech and an AAC. What types of problems are people having with AAC? Quality and longevity are my number 1 priority.

2. What version of Quicken Willmaker should I look for? If I form a trust; what are the laws for naming it?

3. What is a form 3? And why would I need one if I order from a manufacturer?

4. In regards to engraving: I thought that NFA items need to be engraved with the owners (trust, LLC) name. Does this not apply to suppressors?

5. Are there any good places to get the barrel/suppressor threaded correctly?

Thanks again!
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 8:50:53 PM EDT
Also, do I need to fill out a ATF form 5330.20 (Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B)) and submit it with my form 4?
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 10:18:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fabledviper:
Also, do I need to fill out a ATF form 5330.20 (Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B)) and submit it with my form 4?

Yes, in duplicate.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 10:24:18 PM EDT
In regards to your second set of questions

2. I think I used willmaker 2009, I heard the most recent version dropped some of the trust stuff. There are no laws about naming that I know of, "John Smith Revocable Living Trust" is the somewhat standard format.
4. NFA items need to be engraved with maker, location and a serial, most SBRs are homemade so they get engraved with the owners info, that might be were the confusion is.
5. Flamethrower can thread if you want to stay local, ADCO if you want to send it out.


You're really over thinking it. Form a trust, get it notarized for good measure, go visit a dealer, pay your $200 and wait, that's it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 5:00:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 5:02:41 AM EDT by NAM]
Originally Posted By fabledviper:
Thank you all for the information. I will IM Prebans. Although, I have a few more questions:

1. I am torn between a Gem-tech and an AAC. What types of problems are people having with AAC? Quality and longevity are my number 1 priority.


Both are quality suppressors.

One engages in mudslinging and general asshattery IMHO. Said company is also banned from the site.

Gemtech frequently posts here, and I own one of their cans. I do not own any AAC products, nor will I ever.

What caliber/style of can are you looking for? I'm sure there's someone in the HTF that would let you test it out. I've got a Viper .45 (mac 10 can), a TAC-65 (22lr), TAC-16 (.223), and SWR Trident (9mm). I'd let you take em for a spin if interested.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 5:09:39 AM EDT
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about this: there is no one CLEO for anyone. The Form actually says that the person signing is "the CLEO of the organization listed below having jurisdiction in the area of residence of..." (that might not be verbatim, but it's close).

So, CLEO can be the head of any law enforcement organization in your area that has jurisdiction over you, including judges with general jurisdiction (not municipal court judges, family court judges, etc.). So, you could go to your police chief, sheriff, the DA, or a judge.

That said, I went the trust route because it offers much better options for physical possession and/or dispossession IMHO.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:28:50 PM EDT
Thanks again everybody. Hopefully, I will be able to get the ball rolling this weekend. NAM, thanks for the offer. Whereabouts in WI do you reside? I may be able to squeeze in some time this weekend.
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