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Posted: 1/27/2006 7:15:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:04:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:44:26 AM EDT
Guys,
I attended this course in Plymouth. As always, Sully provides another fantastic class. You will not be dissappointed!! Anyone who has attended one of his classes knows the incredible value and amount/quality of instruction you will receive. A very HANDS ON course. Hope all of you can attend!!!
Cheers,
Dave (from waaaaay up North)
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:50:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:23:19 PM EDT
I'm signed up.
Think I might pass on the camping this time around.
Anyone else staying somewhere local?? Maybe do a group dinner Saturday night?
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:51:06 AM EDT
Again think ill have to wait until you come to the milwaukee area
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:54:46 PM EDT
Signed up I haven't found a place to stay yet....Thinking about the Super 8 or one of the other local Motel/Hotels. Any recommendations from the locals? and reference the post above Id be up for a group dinner.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:06:31 AM EDT
I would love to come to this.

Need to check out the dates and get back.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:04:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 12:24:50 PM EDT by drdoolittle_1]

Originally Posted By ronin11b:
Signed up
I haven't found a place to stay yet....Thinking about the Super 8 or one of the other local Motel/Hotels. Any recommendations from the locals? and reference the post above Id be up for a group dinner.


I'm sure glenn_r will chime in with good recommendations.....

edited to add: ....or Stan
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:33:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:50:05 PM EDT
Thanks for the offer BulletcatchR, but I made reservations for the Coppersprings Motel. Figured what the heck the Dept. paying for ith
James
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 1:55:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:40:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:46:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:29:57 AM EDT
When someone gets a chance, I'd love to read an AAR. Wish I could've made this one.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:12:06 AM EDT
Actually, I'm still trying to process some of the info.

On another note, anyone in SE WI have an H buffer or 9mm buffer I can get my hands on for tomorrow afternoon? I need to try to diagnose a problem in a mid-length gas system.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 12:14:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 12:19:41 PM EDT by tommytrauma]

Originally Posted By Drawcut:
When someone gets a chance, I'd love to read an AAR. Wish I could've made this one.



I'll try to put one together. Cliff notes... a very cognitively intense two days. Excellent instruction on complete disassembly and assembly of the AR platform, detail cleaning, trouble shooting, rebarreling, etc. There simply wasn't a piece of the rifle that we didn't cover. (I had no idea how many little pieces are in an A2 sight assembly.) I need to run through asembly / disassembly a few times over the next couple of weeks for retention, but I'd feel comfortable doing a full assembly, troubleshooting problems or doing a trigger job after this class. I also walked away with a full understanding of the AR platform, from buttstock to flash supressor. The interplay between buffer, gas porting and barrel length, for instance, makes a lot more sense for me now. Overall, I feel confident now in my abilities to keep my rifles running. It's nice to know that if my rifle shits the bed in the middle of a class, (or in the middle of a katrina type incident) I can get it back up. (Insert pithy double entendre here.)

The class was almost pure hands on, with enough repetition to allow students to absorb the 'how' of each aspect. Stan was an excellent host, and probably has enough springs, detents and other little pieces to build a lower or two stuck under his work table. Sully provided all the needed equipment, and small spare parts as needed. None had the DPMS he inherited from me, and was able to correct a number of minor 'first build' mistakes I'd made with it. Another student discovered that his bolt was cracked. Most (all?) of the students had never had their rifles taken down that completely before, and everyone walked out with a clean weapon at the end. I expect most everyone will end up changing or fine tuning their weapon maintaince as a result of the class. The pros and cons of most all the cleaners, lubricants, etc in common usage were discussed.

Sully also did a great job of discussing the different tools and equipment available for AR smithing, with examples of most the variations in common use. Quite a few of the tasks were taught both with 'nice to have' tools and with more field experdient methods. none and I are in the process of putting a list od tools and parts together and figuring out what each of us is getting and what we're splitting.

As an aside, I walked away with an even deeper appreciation for the SLR-15. That design really is the culmination of years of actual AR shooting experience. Everything from the stock to the sights to the extractor is the clear product of serious experience and thought.



Thankfully, the included manuel is complete and thorough. The hands on aspect didn't leave time for more than a little note taking.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 3:33:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

Originally Posted By Drawcut:
When someone gets a chance, I'd love to read an AAR. Wish I could've made this one.



I'll try to put one together. Cliff notes... a very cognitively intense two days. Excellent instruction on complete disassembly and assembly of the AR platform, detail cleaning, trouble shooting, rebarreling, etc. There simply wasn't a piece of the rifle that we didn't cover. (I had no idea how many little pieces are in an A2 sight assembly.) I need to run through asembly / disassembly a few times over the next couple of weeks for retention, but I'd feel comfortable doing a full assembly, troubleshooting problems or doing a trigger job after this class. I also walked away with a full understanding of the AR platform, from buttstock to flash supressor. The interplay between buffer, gas porting and barrel length, for instance, makes a lot more sense for me now. Overall, I feel confident now in my abilities to keep my rifles running. It's nice to know that if my rifle shits the bed in the middle of a class, (or in the middle of a katrina type incident) I can get it back up. (Insert pithy double entendre here.)

The class was almost pure hands on, with enough repetition to allow students to absorb the 'how' of each aspect. Stan was an excellent host, and probably has enough springs, detents and other little pieces to build a lower or two stuck under his work table. Sully provided all the needed equipment, and small spare parts as needed. None had the DPMS he inherited from me, and was able to correct a number of minor 'first build' mistakes I'd made with it. Another student discovered that his bolt was cracked. Most (all?) of the students had never had their rifles taken down that completely before, and everyone walked out with a clean weapon at the end. I expect most everyone will end up changing or fine tuning their weapon maintaince as a result of the class. The pros and cons of most all the cleaners, lubricants, etc in common usage were discussed.

Sully also did a great job of discussing the different tools and equipment available for AR smithing, with examples of most the variations in common use. Quite a few of the tasks were taught both with 'nice to have' tools and with more field experdient methods. none and I are in the process of putting a list od tools and parts together and figuring out what each of us is getting and what we're splitting.

As an aside, I walked away with an even deeper appreciation for the SLR-15. That design really is the culmination of years of actual AR shooting experience. Everything from the stock to the sights to the extractor is the clear product of serious experience and thought.



Thankfully, the included manuel is complete and thorough. The hands on aspect didn't leave time for more than a little note taking.



That is only because it was clean enuf still that you didn't have to get all dirty detail cleaning it like the rest of us did



Seriusly this is a very informative class with (almost) more info than you can absorb over one weekend (thank goodness for a detailed manual).

After comparing the DPMS to the SLR I am saving up my pennies for a SLR (Heck the pins even come out without a hammer )


I thought I kept my rifle pretty clean (compared to some around here) but when I had it apart and a chunk (not a piece but a real honest to goodness chunk) of carbon came out of it I got a real eye opener.

Big thanks to Sully on all the parts and pieces I stole used from his toolbox. The man has everything that could possibly go wrong in that thing and a few parts that I am sure only he knows what they are for . Sully's expertise is very evident when one of the students said something along the lines of "hey this does not work like you said". Sully would calmly walk over and show them how to do it (usually just like he said).
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:09:32 PM EDT
Your guys suck... I'm sorry I missed it.... but on the bright side.. I got my truck fixed.....
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:39:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

...I can get it back up. (Insert pithy double entendre here.)

- No need. You did enough damage on your own. Why do you always have to steal my thunder?

...Stan was an excellent host, and probably has enough springs, detents and other little pieces to build a lower or two stuck under his work table.

- I believe BulletcatchR actually built an entire rifle exclusively from parts launched from TT and None's builds (and he is an excellent host).

...Another student discovered that his bolt was cracked.

- Whoops.

Hey, after >8k rounds of Wolf with a handful of cleanings in between, even a quality "Made in Mexico" Model1 sales part is bound to wear a bit.


...everyone walked out with a clean weapon at the end.

- That is, except for FMD; who re-zeroed and function checked his clean weapon immediately after class with a couple hundred more rounds of Wolf.

Where did y'all go so fast? Everyone left so quickly that I didn't get to BS and say "goodbye".


...[the SLR-15] design really is the culmination of years of actual AR shooting experience. Everything from the stock to the sights to the extractor is the clear product of serious experience and thought.

Attention None: Note the spelling of the word in blue.

- I agree fully. Since Greg gave me a bolt to use, almost a full LPK to replace my dremeled parts, and I now that I have a Sully stock and an Ashley SP rear aperture; I'm about 1/3 of the way there. I am still going to be getting an SLR15 (shhhh. Don't say anything to AnnieO).

...Thankfully, the included manuel

- Wait just a cotton-pickin' minute! I didn't get anyone named "Manuel" to help me with the processes that require an extra hand.

Greg, I want my money back!



If that wasn't enough...


Originally Posted By none:
..Seriusly



...this is a very informative class with (almost) more info than you can absorb over one weekend (thank goodness for a detailed manual).

Attention Tommy: Note the spelling of the word in blue.

...I thought I kept my rifle pretty clean (compared to some around here) ...

- Just come out and say "compared to FMD". We all know that's what you meant.

...Big thanks to Sully on all the parts and pieces I stole used from his toolbox. The man has everything that could possibly go wrong in that thing and a few parts that I am sure only he knows what they are for...

+ Eleventybillion



Spelling and literacy were obviously not required for this class ("Manuel" is my Hispanic neighbor; not a series of pictorial instructions, and "Sirius" is a star in constellation Canis Majoris; not an expression of earnestness). Even so, if the two chuckleheads above, along with the king of non-preventative maintenance (yours truly), can garner the Defensive Edge seal of approval, then anyone can.

The real test will be to see what we can do with non-functioning rifles. Evidently, my final exam comes tomorrow.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:03:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:

- I agree fully. Since Greg gave me a bolt to use, almost a full LPK to replace my dremeled parts, and I now that I have a Sully stock and an Ashley SP rear aperture; I'm about 1/3 of the way there. I am still going to be getting an SLR15 (shhhh. Don't say anything to AnnieO).



How do you like the Ashley SP rear Ap? I have one in my cut down A2 handle. I think Glenn mentioned a while back that he diddn't like the oversized holes. After using it for a while, I agree with him.

(/subliminal message - WaitingimpatientlyfortheDEsameplaneA1BUIS /end subliminal message)

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:27:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 5:37:02 AM EDT by glenn_r]

Originally Posted By Drawcut:

How do you like the Ashley SP rear Ap? I have one in my cut down A2 handle. I think Glenn mentioned a while back that he diddn't like the oversized holes. After using it for a while, I agree with him.

(/subliminal message - WaitingimpatientlyfortheDEsameplaneA1BUIS /end subliminal message)



Actually, I can use the Ashley--it's OK. But merely OK. I would prefer the "standard" A2-size holes (probably just because I'm used to them and they look "right"). So I'm still waiting for DE's same-plane too

edit to add further explanation

I put an Ashley in one gun for experimentation and practice. It works fine. But if it's not going to use the standard A2-size holes, I'd rather they have a large A2 hole and Ashley's "super-size" hole. Instead, Ashley went with something halfway between the A2 holes for their "small" hole, and a very large super-size hole. So nothing looks similar to the standard A2 holes, and my eyes think I'm looking through the sights wrong--especially the bastardized size Ashley uses as their "small" hole. So I'm hoping DE works out the same-plane sight.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:33:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Drawcut:
How do you like the Ashley SP rear Ap? I have one in my cut down A2 handle. I think Glenn mentioned a while back that he didn’t like the oversized holes. After using it for a while, I agree with him.

(/subliminal message - WaitingimpatientlyfortheDEsameplaneA1BUIS /end subliminal message)



Actually, after handling Tommy's SLR at the Cold Weather Carbine Class, I just had to have one. I normally run the red dot because AR irons are worthless to me both eyes open ... (cross-eye dominance is a biotch). HK MP5 sights seem to work for me however, and the large aperture on the Ashley looks to be close to that diameter. I have a sneaking suspicion that the more light through the ap, the better my non-dominant eye can focus on the FSP.

Short answer: I will no longer have to rely on the dot for two-eyes-open shooting...specifically because of the large ap. The same-plane part is just a bonus.

(/subliminal message - I'malsoaitingimpatientlyfortheDEsameplaneA1BU­ISdammit /end subliminal message)
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:18:12 AM EDT
I wish I could have gone to that class.

That weekend just didn't work for me, but sounds like it was well worth it.

Hopefully Sully schedules another one this year.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:28:04 AM EDT
Glenn: That's pretty much how I feel. The AO works, but I'd prefer a 'same plane' with the standard A2 sizes.

FMD: Glad it works for you. Personally, I haven't been able to use both eyes open with any irons except pistol at close range. I normally close one just as habit / for consistancy. Heck, at longer ranges, I even close one eye with a red dot.

So where did that bolt break at? I'd guess at the cam pin hole or at a lug.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:53:41 AM EDT
How was the Voyageur? I've never eaten there but heard it was decent?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:43:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 8:45:41 AM EDT by FMD]

Originally Posted By glenn_r:
How was the Voyageur? I've never eaten there but heard it was decent?





None-> <-FMD

Remind me never to ask you for a phone number.

None must be a digit off or something.

We tried, we really did, G.


Originally Posted By Drawcut:
So where did that bolt break at? I'd guess at the cam pin hole or at a lug.



You guessed it. I have no idea how long I'd been shooting with it like that.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:56:26 AM EDT
No, seriously, how was the food? Gotta know whether to recommend it to people coming in to town for classes
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:56:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glenn_r:
How was the Voyageur? I've never eaten there but heard it was decent?



Pretty damn good. The prime rib was tasty, and the fries were nice and crisp. WTF was up with your cell phone??
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:11:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 9:12:55 AM EDT by glenn_r]

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
WTF was up with your cell phone??



Nothing, as far as I know. It never rang, though. I'm hoping None dialed the wrong number--I sent an IM to him with my correct number. I'm assuming his was a digit off or something. If that's not it, I have no idea--never had any other problems.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:13:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glenn_r:
No, seriously, how was the food? Gotta know whether to recommend it to people coming in to town for classes



Prime Rib sammitch on Texas Toast was VERY good.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:55:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glenn_r:

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
WTF was up with your cell phone??



Nothing, as far as I know. It never rang, though. I'm hoping None dialed the wrong number--I sent an IM to him with my correct number. I'm assuming his was a digit off or something. If that's not it, I have no idea--never had any other problems.



none got it via Sully, so you might want to verify it with him too.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:07:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

none got it via Sully, so you might want to verify it with him too.



Will do
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:12:45 PM EDT
Oh sure blame me for dialing the wrong number when I am at work and cannot fight back.
I tried the number Sully gave me (even got it from him twice because I figured I was dialing wrong).


BTW FMD I purposely did not name you for the dirty rifle because I was trying to save you some embarrassment (last time that will happen I guess).
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:25:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 4:27:58 PM EDT by FMD]

Originally Posted By none:
I was trying to save you some embarrassment



Me?

The guy who let his 1911 rust in his living room?
The gentleman who publicly tests rusty Wolf ammunition?
The superhuman shooter that has managed to limpwrist the aforementioned 1911 for the last eight years?

Bah! You can't embarrass me with your words!

I have no shame.

On to the results of class:

Check out my initial question to Hooligan, and what the end result was.

Looks like I passed my final exam.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:35:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 5:41:10 PM EDT by sully]
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:05:28 PM EDT
Sully maybe scedule some classes in Racine, I wanted to take this but thats a serious drive plus hotel stay. If you can get some classes in the Milwaukee area let me know i sure would like to take a few
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:40:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:46:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CrotalusCo:
Sully maybe scedule some classes in Racine, I wanted to take this but thats a serious drive plus hotel stay. If you can get some classes in the Milwaukee area let me know i sure would like to take a few



i won't get to much into classes down here because i'll just get pissed off again, but if there is enough interest i'm sure something could be done. If not this year next year.

No matter what though classes at DRC are worth the trip. the surroundings at DRC just add something to it that you don't get down here. It's kind of a whole different feeling that kind of hard to explaine. You can always camp out which helps cut costs. I like doing that cuz i get to check out my camping gear and stuff and there are usually a couple people camping as well so we sit around and shoot the shit and what not.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:16:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CrotalusCo:
Sully maybe scedule some classes in Racine, I wanted to take this but thats a serious drive plus hotel stay. If you can get some classes in the Milwaukee area let me know i sure would like to take a few



There are a couple of guys from the Milwaukee area who make the Driftless classes that you might be able to carpool with. Bullet catcher is an incredably gracious host, and we tend to camp out there for the two day classes so you don't have to fork out for lodging if you don't want to.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:20:40 PM EDT
I definitely want to do a Camp over at Stans this summer... Sitting around the camp fire swappin stories and talkin guns and girls and cars.........

And you 'll not find a more gracious and generous host.....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:24:49 PM EDT
Once again, big thanks to Stan for hosting this event. It was well worth te drive for me and I got to meet some good guys! Look forward to seeing guys again for some range time.

James
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:26:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BulletcatchR:

Originally Posted By CrotalusCo:
Sully maybe scedule some classes in Racine, I wanted to take this but thats a serious drive plus hotel stay. If you can get some classes in the Milwaukee area let me know i sure would like to take a few



Defensive Edge tried to get some classes going at RCLRC but got 'shot down'. Sully's training is the best value out there it's too bad the club won't take advantage of it for thier members. If you know of a range that will let us train "hot" IM me.

CY6
bulletcatchR



Shot down for what amounts to a BS reason too
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:32:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Harv24:
I definitely want to do a Camp over at Stans this summer... Sitting around the camp fire swappin stories and talkin guns and girls and cars.........
Weren't you going to "camp" in a collapsible duck blind last year?

And you 'll not find a more gracious and generous host..... Big +1

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:35:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Harv24:
I definitely want to do a Camp over at Stans this summer... Sitting around the camp fire swappin stories and talkin guns and girls and cars.........



You forgot to mention the Hookers and Blow.


And you’ll not find a more gracious and generous host...


This is a gross understatement. You won't get treated like "just" a guest Arfcommer, or even as a friend at Driftless. You get treated like family.

Thanks, BulletcatchR. I don’t know what we’d do without you.


Originally Posted By sully:
You have done well Cohei!!!



*bows*

Thank you, Sensei.

My ability is not my own, it is simply a reflection of my teacher.


Link Posted: 4/12/2006 11:46:42 AM EDT
+1 Stan is the man one of the best IMO, it will be worth a trip to camp and train!

Not only is Stan a host he is my brother! A true Warrior in this world of sheep!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:41:08 PM EDT
Speaking of Stan we all need to get together and have another work/shoot party again.
Getting lots of work done at the range and then shooting it up is one of my favorite ways of spending a day/weekend.

Stan has put a lot of work and cash into getting his range shooter friendly. The least we can do is show up once in a while to give it some TLC (and blow it up again).
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