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Posted: 3/7/2006 11:14:28 AM EDT
Hello everybody-

A while back I learned about the Washington Corporation and Non-Profit Corp. methods of obtaining Sound Suppressors and AOW's here in "Wish-ing-I-could-own-one" (My "pet" name for Washington representing my desire to move to a State where I could purchase a registered lower or HK sear before they cost more than a new Kidney)

Do any of you know if the "Trust" method is a legitimate way of setting up an entity that could legally own Suppressors and AOWs here?

I have done some searching and it seems as though in many States it is fair game. Can any of you Non Profit Corp people out there give me any info or opinions on this? Who could I contact to make sure?

Here are some links to the searching I have done here on the sight. Feel free to email me if you would rather not post your answer


www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=264694

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=24&t=225145

sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/669101014/p/1


Here is a rather long "cut and paste" from the Sigforum link for a quick glance:



Okay. I'm going to post this to avoid any confusion that ppl may have.

When you setup a revocable trust with the purpose of acquiring NFA items, you have to keep somethings in mind.

1) This needs to be treated as the LEGAL document it is, its not an easy way to get around any ATF laws or loopholes, the ATF says that LLCs, TRUSTs, Associations and Partnerships are separate entities and are not considered individuals. And are legal ways to acquire NFA items.

2) A trust is first and foremost a way to take care of your possessions when you die or cant take care of yourself, A trust must be treated like a WILL. It will super-cede your existing WILL. Take this seriously, keep this in mind. I believe, you'd have to verify this for yourself, but you can only have one other trustee on the paperwork. So unlike an LLC, only you and one other can possess the NFA item and they must be legal to do so (21 years old, no felony, etc).

3) The lawyer you see may or may not know anything about guns or ATF or NFA stuff. There is absolutely no reason to even talk to them (unless ya wanna) about this. When you title an NFA item in the name of the trust, it is done just like you title your car. You send in paperwork (more on that later) and it will come back in the name of the trust.

4) Once you have the revocable trust paperwork, make copies. Keep all originals in safe place, if its done at lawyer office , they will keep copy on file. It cost me 350bux to do a nice normal trust. This is also the time to take care of power of attorneys and other things like this.

5) A trust does not need to be maintained EVER, only if you want to update some info in it. When you get your approved Form 1/4 back , there is nothing that needs to be done. If and only IF you wanna physically put the NFA into the trust, they usually have a separate paper to list assets, its not necessary but you can.

6) Okay on to the good stuff. All the rumors and gossip are true about trusts. You DO NOT need to send in the following when going LLC or TRUST route:

PHOTO
FINGERPRINTS
CLEO Sign Off
Citizenship FORM

7) Here is what you do send in:

Completed copy of FORM 1/4 which ever your doing
Complete copy (all the pages) of your Trust paperwork
$200bux

The name as trustee will be your name , like mine will say "The DIe-Tryin Trust"

Under reason for NFA item. I simply put "ASSET TO THE TRUST" fixed it due to grammar nazis

This is all you send, no more, no less.

When filling out your FORM 1/4, double check every line and box (even the parts where your FFL fill out) make sure its 100% filled out completely and ACCURATELY. Write legibly, the better the paperwork, the quicker it'll get approved (as opposed to super sloppy paperwork)

The TRUST Route isn't any gray area or loophole, they are guidelines set by the ATF. Don't let anyone tell you differently. This is how Ive gotten my NFA items. The first one took 30days mail box to mail box, the 2nd one took 45 days only cuz they were in the middle of the move to WV. But transfer times vary and there is no rhyme or reason in some cases. lol.

Hope this helps with any confusion. It really is that easy.


HMMMMMMMMMMM? Any thoughts gentlemen?

Thanks as always in advance!

BGF

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:26:00 AM EDT
I'm only speaking from hours and hours of reading through all this. NOT personal experience.


The answer to all of your questions is yes.

You would contact the ATF regarding this since they are the ones approving. But there are plenty of Joe's in here that I'm sure would be willing to help you out.


-Rob
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:15:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:
I'm only speaking from hours and hours of reading through all this. NOT personal experience.


The answer to all of your questions is yes.

You would contact the ATF regarding this since they are the ones approving. But there are plenty of Joe's in here that I'm sure would be willing to help you out.


-Rob



Thanks Rob

I just wish there was a plain and simple answer to stuff like this in Washington (maybe your answer is clear enough).

I know the ATF makes the final call, but does Washington State have any rule against Trusts and NFA items?

Or, as you say, Washington has nothing to do with it as long as the items are legal to own in this state?

I have read that trying to get a straight answer out of the ATF is an entire different can of worms.

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:45:03 PM EDT
I am "pretty sure" that at least ONE person here is incorporated in Washington State.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:25:05 PM EDT
I'm not big on all the legal mumbo jumbo, So I'm going to aska question that you probably answered in your post but I didn't understand.

What is the benefit of using a Trust to get NFA goodies over forming a corporation?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 7:13:18 PM EDT
It's a trap!
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 7:23:49 PM EDT
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