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Posted: 3/7/2006 9:35:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 9:36:56 AM EDT by lethalppl]
I was wondering the law on this...I was stop the other day for taillight problems(not working) I had some targets in the back(blown up water jugs) he ask me if i had gun and i told him yes. He then ask me where etc.... I told him where which he didnt like the location(side door panel). to make the long story short I could of saved alot of head aches if i told him no and go on with my way but dont want break the law by doing this.

Does a police have to ask to go into your car if you have the gun? He didnt do a search of the whole thing just to get the gun from there. He did bring it back to his car and sat there for a bit. Also unloaded and gave it back that way. i guess the good news i didnt get a ticket for taillight broken LOL
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:50:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lethalppl:
I was wondering the law on this...I was stop the other day for taillight problems(not working) I had some targets in the back(blown up water jugs) he ask me if i had gun and i told him yes. He then ask me where etc.... I told him where which he didnt like the location(side door panel). to make the long story short I could of saved alot of head aches if i told him no and go on with my way but dont want break the law by doing this.

Does a police have to ask to go into your car if you have the gun? He didnt do a search of the whole thing just to get the gun from there. He did bring it back to his car and sat there for a bit. Also unloaded and gave it back that way. i guess the good news i didnt get a ticket for taillight broken LOL



If they ask, you are SUPPOSED to tell them
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:52:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:53:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigscrun:
Of course. Getting asked to step out of the car, is way better than getting shot.



+1

Last time I was asked, I answered and left without a ticket.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 10:15:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 10:16:19 AM EDT by R-32]
If asked, I would tell the truth...

But If I get pulled over in my area, I have known most of the cops and deputy's for the last 10 years +....They just know I am.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 10:19:32 AM EDT
I believe the answer would be no.

Of course, it may require a little jail time and some court to prove the point.

If the officer asked for your CPL the answer is definitely yes.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 10:28:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 10:29:34 AM EDT by lethalppl]
he didnt ask for my cpl but if i had any guns inthe car. I told him i had one and the location then said i had cpl.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 10:57:18 AM EDT
If the officer specifically asks you if you have a weapon in the car you have to tell them the truth or be caught in a lie.

Rob tells the officer.

Lies make baby jesus cry.


-Rob
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:04:34 AM EDT
ok i found out i have to tell him about the gun but do i have to let him expect them.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:08:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:
If the officer specifically asks you if you have a weapon in the car you have to tell them the truth or be caught in a lie.
Rob tells the officer.

Lies make baby jesus cry.


-Rob



Your statement is almost true. You only gave two possible answers, the truth or a lie, but the other possibility would be to not answer. This isn't necessarily what one should do in this situation but it is another alternative. If you were being accused of a crime that involved a firearm then the officer has a valid reason to ask the question. Otherwise, what reason did he have for even asking? There is no law against transporting used targets and I don't think a broken taillight would give the officer any valid reason to believe you are armed. I'm willing to bet this is what your lawyer would tell you also.


If you want a legal answer call a lawyer.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:09:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lethalppl:
ok i found out i have to tell him about the gun but do i have to let him expect them.



How did you find this out? Did you speak to a lawyer or just someone who thinks they are?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:09:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lethalppl:
ok i found out i have to tell him about the gun but do i have to let him expect them.




There is nothing that I know of that says anything about them touching your piece. And be mindful of this. When the officer touches a gun he/she is untrained on....there is a chance of an accident.

The last WSP that touched mine unloaded it in his patrol car and handed it back to me, bullets in a seperate plastic bag with the fleeting words "I don't like giving people loaded weapons"

I just reloaded it and continued to the ATM.

The one prior to that pulled it out of the car holster and inspected it and set it on the dash of my car.

The most recent WSP just got pissy when I didn't divuldge that I had a pistol in the car. "Next time," he said, "you need to tell an officer beforehand...he shouldn't have to ask you"

And for the record. IN all of these cases I was never cited for anything. I'm just a target....it's racial profiling because I'm white.

-Rob
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:10:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:
If the officer specifically asks you if you have a weapon in the car you have to tell them the truth or be caught in a lie.
Rob tells the officer.

Lies make baby jesus cry.


-Rob



Your statement is almost true. You only gave two possible answers, the truth or a lie, but the other possibility would be to not answer. This isn't necessarily what one should do in this situation but it is another alternative. If you were being accused of a crime that involved a firearm then the officer has a valid reason to ask the question. Otherwise, what reason did he have for even asking? There is no law against transporting used targets and I don't think a broken taillight would give the officer any valid reason to believe you are armed. I'm willing to bet this is what your lawyer would tell you also.


If you want a legal answer call a lawyer.




Oh yeah...Jafo makes a good point. YOu don't have to speak.

+1 Jafo.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:04:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:

Originally Posted By lethalppl:
ok i found out i have to tell him about the gun but do i have to let him expect them.




There is nothing that I know of that says anything about them touching your piece. And be mindful of this. When the officer touches a gun he/she is untrained on....there is a chance of an accident.

The last WSP that touched mine unloaded it in his patrol car and handed it back to me, bullets in a seperate plastic bag with the fleeting words "I don't like giving people loaded weapons"

I just reloaded it and continued to the ATM.

The one prior to that pulled it out of the car holster and inspected it and set it on the dash of my car.

The most recent WSP just got pissy when I didn't divuldge that I had a pistol in the car. "Next time," he said, "you need to tell an officer beforehand...he shouldn't have to ask you"

And for the record. IN all of these cases I was never cited for anything. I'm just a target....it's racial profiling because I'm white.

-Rob



Exactly how fast are you making that poor old VW drive around town?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:15:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:

The last WSP that touched mine unloaded it in his patrol car and handed it back to me, bullets in a seperate plastic bag with the fleeting words "I don't like giving people loaded weapons"




That is because he was switching out a couple of your rounds with your finger prints with a couple of his throw down's...
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:21:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:
The last WSP that touched mine unloaded it in his patrol car and handed it back to me, bullets in a seperate plastic bag with the fleeting words "I don't like giving people loaded weapons"




That is because he was switching out a couple of your rounds with your finger prints with a couple of his throw down's...



Hmm. Worse yet maybe Rob should check his serial number.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:02:48 PM EDT
Yes, I would.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:09:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 1:10:19 PM EDT by lethalppl]
LOL nope i guess i dont know for sure yet because i m 2 cheap to talk to lawyer. I just wanted to know if i could get in trouble for not saying i have a gun in the car. Sounds like to me not something i should try to find out. Funny part is i didnt have the gun that i was shooting the target with in there(AR15).


Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By lethalppl:
ok i found out i have to tell him about the gun but do i have to let him expect them.



How did you find this out? Did you speak to a lawyer or just someone who thinks they are?

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:22:41 PM EDT
Every time I scan past this thread title, All I can think of is:

"Ray, If someone asks you if you are a god, you say YES!"

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:43:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 1:44:07 PM EDT by SKSGuy]

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:
The last WSP that touched mine unloaded it in his patrol car and handed it back to me, bullets in a seperate plastic bag with the fleeting words "I don't like giving people loaded weapons"




That is because he was switching out a couple of your rounds with your finger prints with a couple of his throw down's...



Hmm. Worse yet maybe Rob should check his serial number.



Did that after he gave it back


The tranny tops out at 150mph...about 120mph the aerodynamics kick in and make it scary to drive. Not that I would know this, but I've heard stories.

-Rob

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:43:52 PM EDT
Jeeves where are you???!!!

Doesn't the law state you don't have to give that information to them as far as the law states?? That was my understanding, but not telling the truth can get your ass in a ringer.

I usually wait until the officer is at the window before anything. Then roll the window down and when asked for credentials I undo the seatbelt, pull out the CPL first and hand that to them while I dig for the License and Insurance card. Then I ask if they want the registration and they usually pass on having me dig for it when I am armed. I was only asked once to hand the firearm to the officer in which I passed. I said something to the affect that you seriously want me to draw a loaded firearm out of a holster and hand it to you?? Then said I didn't think that was in my best interest. Officer seemed puzzled but handed my stuff back and sent me on my merry way with a warning....
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:52:11 PM EDT
Standard boilerplate answer.

Washington has NO statutory requirement to notify an officer that you
are carrying. Opinions vary, but as a general rule you should not
advise an officer that you are lawfully armed UNLESS he's about to find
out anyway (such as asking you to step from the vehicle).

No surprises. That's the rule. The last thing the officer--or
you--need is for him/her to be surprised, especially by an armed
violator (that's what they call citizens who have managed to
arrest the attention of guardian of the public safety through the
apparent commission of a traffic infraction). Whether you inform
him/her righjt up front is a judgment call, but under any
circumstances where the fact that you are carrying is likely to
be exposed (please get out of the vehicle, open your purse, etc),
be sure that YOU are the one that informs the officer, NOT the
other way around.

Everybody likes a surprise, EXCEPT a police officer surprised by
your carry piece.

One should not allow the officer to be surprised by the
presence of a lawfully-possessed firearm, neither should one overburden
the officer with unnecessary information.

Another police rule of thumb in traffic stops: violators aren't
criminals, but most criminals are violators. Bad guys who break
other laws also have a propensity to break traffic laws. So it's
important that you provide that officer with the comfortable
feeling that you're just one of those citizen/violators, rather
than one of those b/g violators. The higher his/her comfort
level, the higher yours is likely to be.


In your case you had shotup water jugs where I'm guessing the officer could see them? That's a pretty good clue that you have something to do with guns aka Probable Cause.

If the cop says, "Do you mind if I lookinto your..." or "If you have nothing to hide, you won't mind if I searchyour..." The law school 101 answer to this is NO CONSENT SEARCHES. Of course, that opens the door to the attitude thingy. My canned response is, "I'm sorry officer, I have nothing to hide, but my family lawyer has advised me he will not represent me if I consent to any search."

ANYTHING uncovered in a consent search is admissable. If the cop uses "probable cause" to justify the search, and his PC doesn't stand up, it's challengeable in court and some or all of any evidence uncovered is subject to exclusion.



Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:37:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JAFO:
Your statement is almost true. You only gave two possible answers, the truth or a lie, but the other possibility would be to not answer. This isn't necessarily what one should do in this situation but it is another alternative. If you were being accused of a crime that involved a firearm then the officer has a valid reason to ask the question. Otherwise, what reason did he have for even asking? There is no law against transporting used targets and I don't think a broken taillight would give the officer any valid reason to believe you are armed. I'm willing to bet this is what your lawyer would tell you also.


If you want a legal answer call a lawyer.



Thats pretty much what mine told me.

I was told to flip it around and ask what that question has to do with my stop. Then lawyer up if they dont back off.

Kinda funny story- One night my taxi stopped on 405 (Bothell). Gauge said 1/2 tank, gauge was broke. WSP came by and offered to give me a ride to get gas.



As I went to get in the backseat of his car, I unclipped my fanny pack and went to hand it to him, "Im sure you would feel a lot better about life if you had control of this".

"I already feel good about life. You are driving a taxi, I know you are armed, and you just offered it to me without me asking. Put it back on and lets go."





Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:54:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:

Originally Posted By lethalppl:
ok i found out i have to tell him about the gun but do i have to let him expect them.




There is nothing that I know of that says anything about them touching your piece. And be mindful of this. When the officer touches a gun he/she is untrained on....there is a chance of an accident.

The last WSP that touched mine unloaded it in his patrol car and handed it back to me, bullets in a seperate plastic bag with the fleeting words "I don't like giving people loaded weapons"

I just reloaded it and continued to the ATM.

The one prior to that pulled it out of the car holster and inspected it and set it on the dash of my car.

The most recent WSP just got pissy when I didn't divuldge that I had a pistol in the car. "Next time," he said, "you need to tell an officer beforehand...he shouldn't have to ask you"

And for the record. IN all of these cases I was never cited for anything. I'm just a target....it's racial profiling because I'm white.

-Rob



Was this last Sunday?

Thats why you didn't make the shoot, We knew it.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:01:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:

The tranny tops out at 150mph...about 120mph the aerodynamics kick in and make it scary to drive. Not that I would know this, but I've heard stories.

-Rob




Sounds like you need a taller ring and pinion and a good airdam on the nose...
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:15:23 PM EDT
My experience from a thread a while back:




Was driving to work this morning down 19th in Tacoma going past that neighborhood known affectionately as "Hilltop". I look in my rearview and I see a lightbar. He's kinda riding close so I figured I'd change to the right lane. Blue lights, DOH!

So I turn onto a side street (I hate guys that get pulled over and decide to block traffic). Stop the truck, turn off the ignition, roll down my window and put my hands on the steering wheel. I'm a bit nervous because it's been a long time since I was pulled over, and, oh yea, theres an HK in the little pocket of the driver's side door.

Officer walks up and says "good morning". Looks at my hands and says "you can take your hands off the wheel....uh, do you have a gun?"

"Yes sir, I do"

"where is it?"

"Inside the door"

"Do you have a permit?"

"Yes sir, I do"

"Well I'm going to hold onto the pistol for now"

"Not a problem sir"

He opens the door, puts the pistol in his back pocket. "You can calm down, no need to be nervous"

"Well, its my first time getting pulled over while carrying"

"Yea, now that I think about it, I get a little shakey when the staters pull me over"...He then asks me for my permit. I hand it to him along with my Drivers license.

"Now the reason I pulled you over is because your tabs are expired....by 4 months"

"Oh Jeeze! Completely slipped my mind"

"Can I see your proof of insurance"

"Yes sir" I begin rummaging around looking for my little geico slip, find one and hand it to him.

"This card is a couple of years old"

"Oh, one second sir, I'll find the newer one" I continue to look around, and it would appear that the aliens have absconded with every copy of my insurance proof short of the ones that are 2+ years old. "Well sir, I think this is the part where you give me a ticket for failure to provide insurance"

"Well, I hadn't planned on writing you up for anything, we'll see"

He walks back to his car, meanwhile I'm doing the "stupid stupid stupid" thing to myself. I know exactly where the reminder to re up my tabs is. Right on my desk "where I'll remember to do it".

He comes back, hands me my info and says "I'm gonna save you about 800 bucks this morning, lemme gonna go ahead and put your pistol back." He opens the door and carefully places it back into the door pocket. "Thanks again, for your honest about this. I think the only thing more you could have done is to turn the dome light on. Now go get your tabs fixed. understand, rig like yours, expired tabs, in hilltop, lotta guys come up here lookin to buy rock. Thanks again for the honesty"

I apologised to him because I had just remembered that I never warned him that the pistol was hot and cocked. He looked at me with this look like "Why wouldn't you carry hot and cocked" then said, don't worry about it, I assumed so, and did a finger check of the chamber when I was back in the squad car.

"Yes sir. Just didn't feel like getting ventilated this early in the morning"

He chuckled, said "Have a good day", and walked back to his car. I do a 3 point turn to get back onto the main road, he waves and I go to work.

Overall, a good experience with the TPD. Was courteous and respectful. I got to go to work with a good story and no ticket.




Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:22:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Belial:

Originally Posted By SKSGuy:

The tranny tops out at 150mph...about 120mph the aerodynamics kick in and make it scary to drive. Not that I would know this, but I've heard stories.

-Rob




Sounds like you need a taller ring and pinion and a good airdam on the nose...



Yeah...not to hijack the thread here...

It has a front airdam that is somewhat helpful but the issues to address the aerodynamics would be wider tires, lower ground clearance, rear hatch spoiler (not of the huge bolt on 5ft high spoiler), and maybe some fender flares. I'd also like to have camber plates in lieu of strut bearings. All of that would make it a much safer ride at 120+

But I don't race it. It's just a daily driver.


-Rob
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:27:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
My experience from a thread a while back:




Was driving to work this morning down 19th in Tacoma going past that neighborhood known affectionately as "Hilltop". I look in my rearview and I see a lightbar. He's kinda riding close so I figured I'd change to the right lane. Blue lights, DOH!

So I turn onto a side street (I hate guys that get pulled over and decide to block traffic). Stop the truck, turn off the ignition, roll down my window and put my hands on the steering wheel. I'm a bit nervous because it's been a long time since I was pulled over, and, oh yea, theres an HK in the little pocket of the driver's side door.

Officer walks up and says "good morning". Looks at my hands and says "you can take your hands off the wheel....uh, do you have a gun?"

"Yes sir, I do"

"where is it?"

"Inside the door"

"Do you have a permit?"

"Yes sir, I do"

"Well I'm going to hold onto the pistol for now"

"Not a problem sir"

He opens the door, puts the pistol in his back pocket. "You can calm down, no need to be nervous"

"Well, its my first time getting pulled over while carrying"

"Yea, now that I think about it, I get a little shakey when the staters pull me over"...He then asks me for my permit. I hand it to him along with my Drivers license.

"Now the reason I pulled you over is because your tabs are expired....by 4 months"

"Oh Jeeze! Completely slipped my mind"

"Can I see your proof of insurance"

"Yes sir" I begin rummaging around looking for my little geico slip, find one and hand it to him.

"This card is a couple of years old"

"Oh, one second sir, I'll find the newer one" I continue to look around, and it would appear that the aliens have absconded with every copy of my insurance proof short of the ones that are 2+ years old. "Well sir, I think this is the part where you give me a ticket for failure to provide insurance"

"Well, I hadn't planned on writing you up for anything, we'll see"

He walks back to his car, meanwhile I'm doing the "stupid stupid stupid" thing to myself. I know exactly where the reminder to re up my tabs is. Right on my desk "where I'll remember to do it".

He comes back, hands me my info and says "I'm gonna save you about 800 bucks this morning, lemme gonna go ahead and put your pistol back." He opens the door and carefully places it back into the door pocket. "Thanks again, for your honest about this. I think the only thing more you could have done is to turn the dome light on. Now go get your tabs fixed. understand, rig like yours, expired tabs, in hilltop, lotta guys come up here lookin to buy rock. Thanks again for the honesty"

I apologised to him because I had just remembered that I never warned him that the pistol was hot and cocked. He looked at me with this look like "Why wouldn't you carry hot and cocked" then said, don't worry about it, I assumed so, and did a finger check of the chamber when I was back in the squad car.

"Yes sir. Just didn't feel like getting ventilated this early in the morning"

He chuckled, said "Have a good day", and walked back to his car. I do a 3 point turn to get back onto the main road, he waves and I go to work.

Overall, a good experience with the TPD. Was courteous and respectful. I got to go to work with a good story and no ticket.







Good story. Some can be so down to earth.

-Rob
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:52:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Standard boilerplate answer.
Washington has NO statutory requirement to notify an officer that you
are carrying. Opinions vary, but as a general rule you should not
advise an officer that you are lawfully armed UNLESS he's about to find
out anyway (such as asking you to step from the vehicle).

No surprises. That's the rule. The last thing the officer--or
you--need is for him/her to be surprised, especially by an armed
violator (that's what they call citizens who have managed to
arrest the attention of guardian of the public safety through the
apparent commission of a traffic infraction). Whether you inform
him/her righjt up front is a judgment call, but under any
circumstances where the fact that you are carrying is likely to
be exposed (please get out of the vehicle, open your purse, etc),
be sure that YOU are the one that informs the officer, NOT the
other way around.

Everybody likes a surprise, EXCEPT a police officer surprised by
your carry piece.

One should not allow the officer to be surprised by the
presence of a lawfully-possessed firearm, neither should one overburden
the officer with unnecessary information.

Another police rule of thumb in traffic stops: violators aren't
criminals, but most criminals are violators. Bad guys who break
other laws also have a propensity to break traffic laws. So it's
important that you provide that officer with the comfortable
feeling that you're just one of those citizen/violators, rather
than one of those b/g violators. The higher his/her comfort
level, the higher yours is likely to be.


In your case you had shotup water jugs where I'm guessing the officer could see them? That's a pretty good clue that you have something to do with guns aka Probable Cause.

If the cop says, "Do you mind if I lookinto your..." or "If you have nothing to hide, you won't mind if I searchyour..." The law school 101 answer to this is NO CONSENT SEARCHES. Of course, that opens the door to the attitude thingy. My canned response is, "I'm sorry officer, I have nothing to hide, but my family lawyer has advised me he will not represent me if I consent to any search."

ANYTHING uncovered in a consent search is admissable. If the cop uses "probable cause" to justify the search, and his PC doesn't stand up, it's challengeable in court and some or all of any evidence uncovered is subject to exclusion.






I don't agree with the statement in red. Probable Cause pertaining to what crime? I understand that while investigating one crime officers can often find evidence that other crimes have been committed and have "Probable Cause" but I don't see how that has anything to do with this situation. Shot up water jugs certainly wouldn't make me think a crime has been committed unless I saw them on the side of the road or at a pit or something. Then I would think some littering has taken place and someone needs to get some 8x10 color glossy photographs.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:04:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 6:17:43 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Standard boilerplate answer.
Washington has NO statutory requirement to notify an officer that you
are carrying. Opinions vary, but as a general rule you should not
advise an officer that you are lawfully armed UNLESS he's about to find
out anyway (such as asking you to step from the vehicle).

No surprises. That's the rule. The last thing the officer--or
you--need is for him/her to be surprised, especially by an armed
violator (that's what they call citizens who have managed to
arrest the attention of guardian of the public safety through the
apparent commission of a traffic infraction). Whether you inform
him/her righjt up front is a judgment call, but under any
circumstances where the fact that you are carrying is likely to
be exposed (please get out of the vehicle, open your purse, etc),
be sure that YOU are the one that informs the officer, NOT the
other way around.

Everybody likes a surprise, EXCEPT a police officer surprised by
your carry piece.

One should not allow the officer to be surprised by the
presence of a lawfully-possessed firearm, neither should one overburden
the officer with unnecessary information.

Another police rule of thumb in traffic stops: violators aren't
criminals, but most criminals are violators. Bad guys who break
other laws also have a propensity to break traffic laws. So it's
important that you provide that officer with the comfortable
feeling that you're just one of those citizen/violators, rather
than one of those b/g violators. The higher his/her comfort
level, the higher yours is likely to be.


In your case you had shotup water jugs where I'm guessing the officer could see them? That's a pretty good clue that you have something to do with guns aka Probable Cause.

If the cop says, "Do you mind if I lookinto your..." or "If you have nothing to hide, you won't mind if I searchyour..." The law school 101 answer to this is NO CONSENT SEARCHES. Of course, that opens the door to the attitude thingy. My canned response is, "I'm sorry officer, I have nothing to hide, but my family lawyer has advised me he will not represent me if I consent to any search."

ANYTHING uncovered in a consent search is admissable. If the cop uses "probable cause" to justify the search, and his PC doesn't stand up, it's challengeable in court and some or all of any evidence uncovered is subject to exclusion.






I don't agree with the statement in red. Probable Cause pertaining to what crime? I understand that while investigating one crime officers can often find evidence that other crimes have been committed and have "Probable Cause" but I don't see how that has anything to do with this situation. Shot up water jugs certainly wouldn't make me think a crime has been committed unless I saw them on the side of the road or at a pit or something. Then I would think some littering has taken place and someone needs to get some 8x10 color glossy photographs.



Do you have any guns in the car?
"no"
Shot up water jugs=guns somewhere, and you said you didn't have any guns in the car therefore either you are lying about it or.....
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