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Posted: 2/27/2006 1:22:45 PM EDT
Are tandem dump trucks particular to the far west? I dont recall seeing any on my way out and there certainly arent any back east. Anyway, I have a few q's about them and trucks in general...

On the tandem dump trucks it appears that the draw bar is adjustable (telescoping). Is this a manual thing or hydraulic? Whats the purpose of changing the length?

The hitch point between trailer and truck isnt something Ive seen before. Back east the trailer would have an eye that engages the truck hitch. Here it seems to be some sort of ball type joint...cant really tell b/c Ive not had an opprtunity to see one up close not moving at hwy speed. Also noticed there dont seem to be any safety chains/cables. What happens if the trailer gets loose? My guess is that the brakes lock once air is cut off. Even if the brakes lock it seems the long draw bar bouncing around is going to do some damage.

It seems that most trucks out here run pretty heavy loads. I assumed this given the extra 'helper wheels' that dont engage the road until the load is enough and/or the extra trailer wheels. Does the state build their roads to take the extra load or count on more road work to fix problems caused by the extra weight?

I assume bigger loads are necessary b/c of the longer distances encountered in this area (the west in general).

I noticed there are not triples in WA and very few tandems (other than dump and hay trucks). Why? Many of the other western states I drove thru allow them.

Anyone familiar w/ the 'Sid-dump' dump trucks? Ive never seen anything like it before. Whats the draw to being able to dump from the side vs back? That is, why is that necessary out here?

Some concrete trucks draw a sort of short trailer that I assume supports the trough? Whats that about? Does anyone use the front dump concrete trucks or are they all back dump? Also noticed some articulated concrete trucks w/ what looked like very similar in capacity to the nonarticulated type. Why would you want such a thing other than to be able to share the tractor?

In all my travels thru W WA Ive not seen anything that looks like a truck stop. I saw some E WA...I know trucks have to stop here but where? I cant say Ive done any sort of exhaustive search for them but usually theyre not hard to find either being located right on the hwy. That said diesel doesnt seem to be all that popular at most gas stations either.

Is diesel treated by the distributor (kerosene and/or something like Powe Service) or do you do that yourself? I also assume theres no such thing as winterized diesel around here...right?

Guess thats it for now...
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 2:39:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:
In all my travels thru W WA Ive not seen anything that looks like a truck stop. I saw some E WA...I know trucks have to stop here but where?

Guess thats it for now...



They are few and far between in the city. I'm thinking the west side is becoming like Kaliforia they don't like trucks but want to buy the shit that they haul. All in all truckers get treated like shit and then they don't even get a place to sleep.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 3:33:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:

On the tandem dump trucks it appears that the draw bar is adjustable (telescoping). Is this a manual thing or hydraulic? Whats the purpose of changing the length?



Yes, the draw bar is adjustable. You will see them shorten the draw bar when they need to make a turn and don't have "swing room" to get it done. Also, I think they have to have it extended all the way to reach the maximum GCVW of 105,500 lbs. I've seen them shorter the bar at stop light. They apply the trailer brakes then back up the dumptruck to shorter the bar. Freaked out one lady who was behind the truck because the reverse lights came on and the trailer rocked back about 1 foot. Funny to watch really....

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 3:45:26 PM EDT
Don't know about back east, but I know dump trucks. The draw bar or "tongue" is adjustable for length, usually a air valve to lock it in place but movement is manual with the truck and brakes. Two basic things affect how much weight you can legally haul, length and axles. That extra four feet of "stretch" with the tongue gets you another ton easy. Of course there is much more such as weight on particualr axles and axle spacing.

Dump trucks with a trailer that has a hydraulic cylinder that will dump itself, that is a "pup" trailer; if it is a tub box on a trailer with a drawbar that doesn't telescope, that is a "transfer" trailer because the box on the trailer is transferred to the dump truck to be dumped, usually used where space is not available for a regular pup trailer, typically in town or confined dump sites, think asphalt.

The hitch is a "pintle" hitch, hook on the truck, eye on the trailer. There are safety chains or cables on all that I know of. "Helper" wheels or lift axles are only used when needed to haul more weight legally.

No triples since early 90's.

Side dumps aren't that useful for most work, stockpiling, ashpalt,. Sort of a specialized truck for general purposes.

Front discharge mixers are again sort of specialized, usually they are all wheel drive and just plain out homely. Rear discharge is the norm. That "trailer" is a hinged axle called a "bridgemaster" that is used to legally get a few more feet of wheelbase and another axle to haul another ton or about a half-yard of wet concrete for the federal highway bridge weight limits. The articualted mixers I'm assuming are just fifth wheel trucks with a trailer mounted mixer. Very useful if you don't want to buy dedicated mixer trucks maybe later hook the trucks up to "belly-dump" or side-dump trailers. Usually they haul 12 yards where as the 5 axle conventional mixer can haul 10.

No big truck stops like a Little America or Pilot over here along I-5. A relative of mine owns G.C.'s off exit 57, it'll park a couple hundred trucks. There are a couple of other small ones in off exit 26 and 72, but nothing huge.

Diesel I can't speak for.

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 3:47:47 PM EDT
Remember, if you see alot of Kenworths and Peterbilts, thats because Paccar (Pacific Carriage) has a factory in Seattle, and of course Kenworths are the best.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:04:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 4:04:58 PM EDT by DDofWA]

Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:


The hitch point between trailer and truck isnt something Ive seen before. Back east the trailer would have an eye that engages the truck hitch. Here it seems to be some sort of ball type joint...cant really tell b/c Ive not had an opprtunity to see one up close not moving at hwy speed. Also noticed there dont seem to be any safety chains/cables.

Guess thats it for now...



BIG_JOHN covered most of your questions. As far as not being able to see the hitch, most dumptrucks have a cover over the pintle hitch and saftey chains/cables, a mud flap of sorts to keep drit and gravel out of the working parts, probably why you haven't been able to see it well.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:16:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 4:17:09 PM EDT by AssaultPossum]
Thanx! Big_john thats was very informative...Im surprised though about no big TS on I5 as its a main N/S route on the W coast & Canada. Being from the south Im used to big stops at frequent intervals. At l;east in the south TS cooking was second to none (most of the time).

I was at the last Paccar open house in Edison...a really interesting place on par w/ some of the east coast machine tool and aviation mfgs as far as hitech in mfging.

About road wear...it seems that w/ heavier loads theres going to be appreciably more wear. Does the state build to heavier specs or just do more road work?

ETA; Why arent triples allowed anymore?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:18:11 PM EDT
Dump truck and pup trailer


Dump truck - transfer trailer

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:19:39 PM EDT
CavVet's wet dream...
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:20:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 4:42:09 PM EDT by DDofWA]
AssaultPossum
Member
Joined :: October 2003
Post Number :: 556<--

WA, USA

You wasted that post on one about trucks.

The larger loads are allowed because of more axles/tires on the ground, according to the Federal bridge law.
Link to some bridge law info.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:21:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
CavVet's wet dream...
www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/dennis_child/may9/oshkosh_front_load_cement_truck.jpg




Them are for guys who cant back up loaded.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:24:08 PM EDT
Bad day at the ranch...

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:28:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:53:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DDofWA:
AssaultPossum
Member
Joined :: October 2003
Post Number :: 556<--

WA, USA

You wasted that post on one about trucks.

The larger loads are allowed because of more axles/tires on the ground, according to the Federal bridge law. Major X-Ring there.
Link to some bridge law info.



The reason I was told, by a NJDOT Inspector, my Uncle, that you won't see pup trailes on the Eastern Seaboard, is that they are too long and violate many local municipal & some State traffic laws. If you're ever been near the "Vince Lombardi" exit on the NJ turnpike, you'll also see a slew of wharehouses that exsist simply to put loads from larger trailers into smaller (shorter) ones. NY traffic is the entire reason.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:26:25 PM EDT
Washington does not allow triples, Oregon does. Most of the doubles I've seen are 28's though. There are smaller truck stops that I know of in the Tacoma area, near the ports and wharehouses. Flying J on the Fife/Tacoma border, near the Port of Tacoma, and Ernies in Kent, near a couple of wharehouses. Plus the oversized rest stops. Further North, into Snohomish County I've seen a couple, but can only think of Donnas off the top of my head. These are ones that I've been to for whatever reason.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:51:20 PM EDT
Finally, a topic I can post to without getting someone's panties in a buch, and I tell myself to do it later, and so many have jumped in already! My timing sucks!

I can tell you about diesel: Most diesel is "splash" mixed, IOW, if there is anything mixed in, it will be mixed when fuel is delivered to the station. Many diesel fuel pumps will be selling treated fuel just to help reduce water, algea, and bacteria problems that can occur year round, and to help their customers get to the colder east side of the Cascades in the winter.

"Winterized" diesel can mean anything from "we put an additive in there to seperate the water out" to "this fuel is guaranteed to not cloud until 0 degrees F". Gotta read the fine print. When in doubt, put your own additive in there. I prefer the additives that don't make water collect at the bottom of the tank, but pass through and burn away, specifically Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat (sp?)
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:21:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Dump truck and pup trailer
www.earthtoearthllc.com/images/trucking/dump_and_pup1_thm.jpg

Dump truck - transfer trailer
content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/7/74/250px-Transfer_Dump_Truck_While_Transfering.jpg



Oh yes. Ive seen these transfer trailers and thought they were jsut another style of dump truck.

I assume the pup trailer gets its hydraulic pressure from the truck? So, in addition to air lines there are also hydraulic lines?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:23:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
CavVet's wet dream...
www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/dennis_child/may9/oshkosh_front_load_cement_truck.jpg



This is the type of truck Im most familiar w/. Im told its easier to manuver the chute if you can pull in to the dump area...I think they also have a hydraulic positioner that can be operated from the cab too.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:24:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DDofWA:
AssaultPossum
Member
Joined :: October 2003
Post Number :: 556<--

WA, USA

You wasted that post on one about trucks.

The larger loads are allowed because of more axles/tires on the ground, according to the Federal bridge law.
Link to some bridge law info.



I didnt...I like trucks and tractors and that sort of thing...as much as guns. Anyway, I didnt even know I had posted so much....wasnt paying any attention to that.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:32:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YOPD:
Finally, a topic I can post to without getting someone's panties in a buch, and I tell myself to do it later, and so many have jumped in already! My timing sucks!

I can tell you about diesel: Most diesel is "splash" mixed, IOW, if there is anything mixed in, it will be mixed when fuel is delivered to the station. Many diesel fuel pumps will be selling treated fuel just to help reduce water, algea, and bacteria problems that can occur year round, and to help their customers get to the colder east side of the Cascades in the winter.

"Winterized" diesel can mean anything from "we put an additive in there to seperate the water out" to "this fuel is guaranteed to not cloud until 0 degrees F". Gotta read the fine print. When in doubt, put your own additive in there. I prefer the additives that don't make water collect at the bottom of the tank, but pass through and burn away, specifically Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat (sp?)



In new england theres a true winter formula based on a higher centane rating. They also add kerosene to aid in cold starting and some add Power Service conditioner to dissipate water and as a selling pt. Most didnt add PS and expected buyers to add what they watned. I used PS year round just b/c it minimized water related problems, kept injectors clean and retarded the growth of algea (in the summer). During first real cold spell of the winter it became clear who was using winter fuel and who wasnt. I always felt bad for the field mechanics that had to answer those calls. They went thru all the pain but little of the gain b/c someone was too cheap or short sighted to use the right fuel.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:33:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Washington does not allow triples, Oregon does. Most of the doubles I've seen are 28's though. There are smaller truck stops that I know of in the Tacoma area, near the ports and wharehouses. Flying J on the Fife/Tacoma border, near the Port of Tacoma, and Ernies in Kent, near a couple of wharehouses. Plus the oversized rest stops. Further North, into Snohomish County I've seen a couple, but can only think of Donnas off the top of my head. These are ones that I've been to for whatever reason.



Oh yes...I think I know the place in Tacoma...cant say I know the one in SNohomish Co though.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:41:58 PM EDT
Ive seen some bs in this thread, I will just reply to a small part of the initial question.


Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:
Anyone familiar w/ the 'Sid-dump' dump trucks? Ive never seen anything like it before. Whats the draw to being able to dump from the side vs back? That is, why is that necessary out here?



We had them back east, our competitor has them out here. Lightweight trailer, mostly used for stockpiling and removal.



Some concrete trucks draw a sort of short trailer that I assume supports the trough? Whats that about? Does anyone use the front dump concrete trucks or are they all back dump? Also noticed some articulated concrete trucks w/ what looked like very similar in capacity to the nonarticulated type. Why would you want such a thing other than to be able to share the tractor?



Trailer= Bridge law.

Front dumps and rear dumps out here. In Seattle specific, all rears, most work is pumped. Snohomish County has front dumps, as do most rural markets, makes life a LOT easier for the contractor. Thats the only difference. I had a front dump back east, you can do things with it (namely lay to grade) you cant dream of doing with a rear.

That articulated you are seeing is a semi mixer. Our company has some of them, Legal at 13 cubic yards versus 10 on a straight truck. The legal bullshit of modern times has made a good idea (more for less), to be used in the city on surface streets, pretty much useless. We wont buy anymore or so they say.

Our company back east also had the Dump trucks with pups. All the axles are nothing but pencilhead regulation compliance.

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:46:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RS_Coyote:

Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:
In all my travels thru W WA Ive not seen anything that looks like a truck stop. I saw some E WA...I know trucks have to stop here but where?

Guess thats it for now...



They are few and far between in the city. I'm thinking the west side is becoming like Kaliforia they don't like trucks but want to buy the shit that they haul. All in all truckers get treated like shit and then they don't even get a place to sleep.



I have seen planty of trucks with the guys sleeping in them.
And the same goes for the closed weigh stations.

I-5
Gee Creek
(MP 11)
Northbound
Southbound

I-5
Toutle River
(MP 54)
Northbound
Southbound

I-5
Scatter Creek
(MP 90)
Northbound

I-5
Maytown
(MP 93)
Southbound

I-5
SeaTac
(MP 140)
Northbound

I-5
Silver Lake
(MP 188)
Southbound

I-5
Smokey Point
(MP 207)
Northbound
Southbound

I-5
Bow Hill
(MP 238)
Northbound
Southbound

I-5
Custer
(MP 267)
Northbound
Southbound

I-5 in Washington State is a destination or a departure point, it's not like I-40 or I-35 in Oklahoma with a truck stop every 15 miles across the state....

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:49:13 PM EDT
‘Urine trouble,’ some states warn truckers
Tens of thousands of ‘trucker bombs’ litter roads

By Miguel Llanos
June 2, 2005


SEATTLE — Roadside litter comes in all shapes and sizes — from dirty diapers to syringes — but there's one category that out-grosses the rest: trucker bombs.

Most drivers whiz along the nation's highways largely oblivious to their roadside surroundings. But next time you are out there, take a closer look.

"As soon as you look for it you’ll see it," says Megan Warfield, litter programs coordinator at Washington state's Department of Ecology. "You just see them glistening in the sun. It’s just gross."

They are trucker bombs, plastic jugs full of urine tossed by truckers, and even non-truckers, who refuse to make a proper potty stop to relieve themselves.

The state hasn't counted how many such jugs are found each year, but a single, small county decided to do its own tally. "In one year," Warfield says, "one crew found 2,666 bottles of urine, 67 feces covered items, not including diapers, and 18 syringes."

It even happens at rest stops. "That’s the mystery," Warfield says. "There’s a bathroom right there, there’s also a trash can."

Job stress, pressure cited
Truckers, for their part, point to a lack of convenient parking areas and an industry that's become more stressful since deregulation in the 1980s.

Urine jugs, says Todd Spencer, executive vice president of the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association, "are an indicator of how much stress and pressure drivers are under." Those factors range from having to get deliveries on time to making up for higher fuel prices by reducing costs elsewhere.

The legal work week for truckers is 60 hours, the former truck driver says, and "the real work week is usually 20 to 30 hours beyond that."

"What actually drives this more than anything else," he adds, "is that the vast majority of drivers are paid only for miles driven," so they cut corners where possible.

Spencer doesn't see much improvement for drivers either, saying companies would have to be forced to improve conditions.

Leigh Strope, a spokeswoman for the Teamsters union, concurs that a major factor is that "many drivers only get paid when the wheels are rolling."

But she also insists that union drivers aren't the ones stooping to urine jugs. "You won't find Teamsters urinating in jugs and littering the nation's highways," she says. "Our drivers are guaranteed rest and dinner breaks because it's in their union contract."

Handling the goods
Disposing of trucker bombs, aka torpedoes or pee bottles, is a thankless task that in many cases falls to highway cleanup crews.

California has a hazardous waste contractor to deal with human waste. In Washington, a spill response crew is called in to dispose of large volumes of trucker bombs.

Safety experts emphasize that urine is 99 percent sterile and that jugs of it can be moved if crews avoid contact with the liquid, Warfield says. But cleanup crews remain reluctant, with some fearing the liquid could actually be something else also dumped along highways — dangerous chemicals used to make the illegal drug methamphetamine.

$1,025 fine
Hoping to break truckers of the dirty habit, Washington state lawmakers created a "dangerous litter" category in 2002 and increased fines to $1,025 from $95 for general litter.

When it comes to human waste, the dangerous category covers trucker bombs and dirty diapers. Together they accounted for 8,000 pounds of trash collected from state roads last year.

The state has also launched a "Litter and it will hurt" campaign — its first prevention campaign in a decade.

"We have made a little bit of progress," Warfield says, citing a new survey that found 2,000 tons less of roadside litter than in 1999.

The Washington State Patrol issued 3,995 tickets or warnings about litter in 2003, the most recent year for which data is available, nearly 800 fewer than in 2002.

Several other states have taken similar steps to stop truckers from dumping containers of urine. Wyoming this year increased the maximum penalty for littering bodily fluid to nine months in jail and a $1,000 fine. The maximum penalty for other litter is six months in jail and a $750 fine.

Mowers 'hit them, they explode'
In April, Colorado increased its "human waste" fine from $40 to $500. Transportation employees convinced lawmakers of the need for the drastic increase with their tales of finding urine jugs as they mowed roadway ditches. "We hit them, they explode. The operator ends up wearing this stuff," Randy Dobyns told state senators.

Dobyns estimated he picks up at least 50 containers a week, sometimes milk jugs, water bottles or even bags filled with urine. "The folks who dispose of this stuff are very creative in their use of containers," he said.

Some states have gone so far as to appeal to truckers themselves, but Warfield recalls how that backfired on a colleague in Arizona. "He did not get a warm reception," she says.

Poster strategy
Darcy Wilson had another approach after her husband complained of having to pick up trucker bombs left on the grounds of a 10-acre truck stop 30 miles east of Seattle on Interstate 90, a major truck route.

She did some research and found that the state Department of Ecology had made posters that read, "This is not a urinal." The agency was happy to send her the posters, to which she attached an updated sign about the higher state litter fine.

Wilson posted a dozen on light posts and trash cans and says her husband believes he's finding fewer jugs of urine lying around the truck stop.

"People are looking at the fine," she says.

But truckers continue dumping the heavy jugs in trash cans that still have to be emptied. "Truckers don't want to walk into a bathroom" with the jugs, Wilson says, so her husband is urging his boss to order portable bathrooms where truckers could dump the containers in private.

"We'll do anything to not have to pick up that stuff," she says.

Recycling solution?
Unfortunately, a recent breakthrough in diesel filter technology that uses urine won't be helpful.

European researchers are developing a filter that uses animal urine to cut down on harmful emissions. Truckers who use the filter will fill up with the purified urea solution each time they stop for diesel.

But Oliver Kröcher, one of the filter researchers at the Paul Scherrer Institute near Zurich, Switzerland, says using human urine "is not practical at all, since ... very pure urea has to be used" and that wouldn't be the case with urine straight from the source.

"Thus, there is no way to apply this crazy idea," he says.

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:51:46 AM EDT
Washington is actually pretty good about truckstops, we still have quite a few little mom n pop places, you just have to know where they are.
The triples and rocky sets don't do more damage to the roads, you are still limited to certain weight per square inch on the ground. 4 wheelers with studded tires do far more damage every year.

As for the piss bottles, they've been around as long as I've been in or around the industry, the problem with em being dumped on the side of road has gotten worse lately for several reasons, first is the quality of driver has dropped considerably in the last decade, the driver shortage has driven the big companies to hire any moron just so they can get meat in the seat
Second, the big "travel plazas" have driven out most of the little truckstops but haven't added much in the way of parking and .gov regs make it almost impossible for anyone other than a major corperation to build new truckstops. couple all that with state and local .govs limiting where you can park and it gets really difficult to find parking near a bathroom.
We're putting more and more trucks on the road every year with fewer places for em to park.
It still comes down to plain laziness on the truckers part, I always emptied my bottles and put em in a dumpster.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:30:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:46:10 AM EDT
I loaded dump trucks for a few years, so I thought I'd chime in, even though all of the questions have already been answered.



On the tandem dump trucks it appears that the draw bar is adjustable (telescoping). Is this a manual thing or hydraulic? Whats the purpose of changing the length?



Yes they are often adjustable. Most of the trucks I loaded had an air actuated lock on the tongue of the trailer which was controlled from the cab of the truck. On some older trailers it was a manual thing, so the driver would usually just find a happy length and leave it there. As mentioned before, the purpose of changing the length is to be able to haul more weight legally. The amount a truck is allowed to haul is based on several things... Number of axles, number of tires, size of tires, the length of the vehicle, ETC. By adding some length, they spread the weight out more and can haul more. Our drivers would typically shorten up when empty as it makes it easier to maneuver.


Also noticed there dont seem to be any safety chains/cables. What happens if the trailer gets loose? My guess is that the brakes lock once air is cut off. Even if the brakes lock it seems the long draw bar bouncing around is going to do some damage.



They have pretty hefty cables, you probably just haven't noticed them. Airbrakes themselves are designed so when there is no air pressure, they are locked. So if a trailer happens to come undone and lose pressure, it "should" come to a screeching halt.

Having witnessed at least 2 cases of a pup trailer coming disconnected from it's truck, I can confirm that YES, that tongue will do some damage to the road, especially if it's loaded. It'll dig right into the pavement and make a nice mess.



It seems that most trucks out here run pretty heavy loads. I assumed this given the extra 'helper wheels' that dont engage the road until the load is enough and/or the extra trailer wheels. Does the state build their roads to take the extra load or count on more road work to fix problems caused by the extra weight?



We called those extra wheels drop axles... Not sure if that's an industry term or not. They are raised and lowered by big air bags. They are generally raised when empty and lowered when full. In the trucks where I worked, they could be raised and lowered by a switch inside of the truck, although I heard a rumor once that this isn't entirely legal. Apparently the switch is supposed to be outside of the cab? I'm not entirely sure.

Their purpose again is to add an extra axle. It spreads the load across extra tire surface area so more weight can be hauled. An interesting note about them, at least on the trucks we had, is that you can't really back up with the drop axle lowered because of the way they articulate. If you backed up with them down, they would cock over hard one way or the other and get jammed.



I assume bigger loads are necessary b/c of the longer distances encountered in this area (the west in general).



Time is money! My boss had it figured out to the minute what it cost to run one of his trucks (I forget now what it was, but it isn't cheap). If you can haul 105,500 lbs instead of 80,000 lbs per trip, you're going to get the job done faster and cheaper. I would have to imagine that in some of the more developed urban areas you'll find back east, it might not be feasible to maneuver a truck that large through the city. That's just a guess though.



I noticed there are not triples in WA and very few tandems (other than dump and hay trucks). Why? Many of the other western states I drove thru allow them.



Triples are illegal in Washington, but doubles are allowed. You'll see more doubles as you get farther away from civilization, for instance into eastern Washington. Doubles are not exactly easy to drive in the city... It's not like pulling a trailer, it's really a trailer pulling a trailer pulling a trailer if you think about it. By the time you consider the front trailer, then the dolly, and then the back trailer, you have 3 pivot points. Makes it darn near impossible to back up. More often you'll see truckers hauling those massive single box vans... 54 feet is the maximum length I think. They're huge and you can back them up. In the case of hay trucks, well, my uncle happens to haul hay! Hay isn't very heavy compared to other things, so you would never even come close to the legal weight with a single trailer. By pulling 2 trailers, you have more space to stack the bales.



Anyone familiar w/ the 'Sid-dump' dump trucks? Ive never seen anything like it before. Whats the draw to being able to dump from the side vs back? That is, why is that necessary out here?



As someone else said, these are a pretty specialized deal. However, if you're working on the side of a road, it's pretty nice to just pull up next to the ditch and dump as opposed to having to back a pup trailer into the ditch and then jack-knife and get the truck in there. You'll also see belly dumps from time to time which are pretty nice for spreading gravel for a road bed. Again they aren't too common.

That reminds me of the time one of our drivers turned his normal pup trailer into a side dump trailer on accident. WHOOPS!!
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:40:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:
In new england theres a true winter formula based on a higher cetane rating. They also add kerosene to aid in cold starting and some add Power Service conditioner to dissipate water and as a selling pt. Most didnt add PS and expected buyers to add what they watned. I used PS year round just b/c it minimized water related problems, kept injectors clean and retarded the growth of algea (in the summer). During first real cold spell of the winter it became clear who was using winter fuel and who wasnt. I always felt bad for the field mechanics that had to answer those calls. They went thru all the pain but little of the gain b/c someone was too cheap or short sighted to use the right fuel.



Those mechanincs, if they are independent/self employed, could almost charge whatever they wanted to in that situation, so don't feel too bad for them! The probably counted on it for a good chunk of income in the winter.

AFAIK, when you add Kerosene to diesel fuel, it's now called Diesel #1, which will somtimes advertise how much kersoene is in the mix as a percentage. Straight diesel is Diesel #2. The kerosene, or other additives, do help with cold starting, but with todays very high compression diesel engines and stron gglow plugs, all the engine needs is flowing diesel. Diesel "clouds" and begins to thicken before it get to the point of gelling up into a (semi) solid. This "Cloud Point" is really the important number to find on treated fuel or a fuel treatment additive. If you have anything that will prevent the clouded diesel from flowing enough to start the engine, or keep it running, than even fuel that is "just cold enough", but not gelled, will stop your productive day until it can thaw out.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:49:05 PM EDT
Drop axles are the best way to gain tonnage, yes it is illegal to have the controls inside not that it stops operators from putting them there. It is a PITA to have them outside, like said above you cant back up with them down. I saw where one dumbass tried backing up with it down and bent the hell out of the frame. On my dumps which by the way are all Kenworths they have a inside switch as well as the controls outside. They also a switched to raise when the truck is in reverse. As far as weights are concerned your maximun in Washington is 105,500 but you need 8 axles to get there in addition to the bridge measurments. Speaking of bridge measurements try getting the same answer to the same question from a commercial enforcment officer. There are many different ways to get to 105,500 though you have to take into account tire size, number of axles distance between axles, etc. This is one area I know as I own a trucking company and all of my trucks are setup to go 105,500.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:54:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:
Drop axles are the best way to gain tonnage, yes it is illegal to have the controls inside not that it stops operators from putting them there. It is a PITA to have them outside, like said above you cant back up with them down.



IIRC, you cant have the axle pressure adjustment in the cab, you can have the up and down controls in the cab.



Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:14:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By mstennes:
Drop axles are the best way to gain tonnage, yes it is illegal to have the controls inside not that it stops operators from putting them there. It is a PITA to have them outside, like said above you cant back up with them down.



IIRC, you cant have the axle pressure adjustment in the cab, you can have the up and down controls in the cab.






Your correct CAV, a switch to lift and lower ONLY, can be mounted in the driver compartment for safety, but the controls to adjust the pressure must remain out side of driviner compartment, so you can't cheat and the scale house.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:27:50 PM EDT
My bad, I forgot that part.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:58:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By RS_Coyote:

Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:
In all my travels thru W WA Ive not seen anything that looks like a truck stop. I saw some E WA...I know trucks have to stop here but where?

Guess thats it for now...



They are few and far between in the city. I'm thinking the west side is becoming like Kaliforia they don't like trucks but want to buy the shit that they haul. All in all truckers get treated like shit and then they don't even get a place to sleep.



I have seen planty of trucks with the guys sleeping in them.
And the same goes for the closed weigh stations.

I-5 in Washington State is a destination or a departure point, it's not like I-40 or I-35 in Oklahoma with a truck stop every 15 miles across the state....




OK now if a long haul trucker makes a delivery in Seattle of Kent and needs to stay within 5-10 miles of their drop for a few days. Where can said stinky ass trucker get a clean shower stall to clean up and take a shit?

Now that they have sold the Fly-J in Federal Way to the Hippy stink stores the one in Tacoma is overflowing.

I'm not a long haul trucker anymore. After 5 years of making less than minimum wage per hour and getting treated like shit by everybody in the world from the employer to the customers to the asshole four wheelers on the road. I give up. I liked the adventure and even kinda liked the lifestyle but damn....
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:14:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RS_Coyote:
I'm not a long haul trucker anymore. After 5 years of making less than minimum wage per hour and getting treated like shit by everybody in the world from the employer to the customers to the asshole four wheelers on the road. I give up. I liked the adventure and even kinda liked the lifestyle but damn....



Ditto, kinda.

I drove for 13 years. Freight, crushed rock, hardware, LTL, HazMat, 48 states and Canada, once to Mexico (bigger pain in the ass than Canada ever was, to get in there and get back ), all year, all kinds of weather, all kinds of loads and delivery types. I was a new driver trainer for Interstate Distributor Company for a while, very rewarding work. After about the first 10 years, not so many of the day to day problems mattered much anymore, and I got the same pay for every trip mile whether I was driving or a trainee. I was a well respected driver and I was part of a good company that treated me better than any other employer ever has, except for myself!

The biggest problem was getting sick on the road. My health insurance is through Kaiser Permanente, and there were no KP clinics near any truck stops or places I could drop the trailer for a short while while I went to get my sore throat or sinus unfection looked at. CA and some east coast citie's pollution would irritate my throat and nose so bad that I couldn't sleep, and if you can't sleep, you can't drive.

Oh, and chaining up. I hate chaining up a big rig. I hate it almost as much as I hate liver, and I really hate liver!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:55:37 PM EDT
Finally, a topic I can post to without getting someone's panties in a buch, and I tell myself to do it later, and so many have jumped in already! My timing sucks!

I can tell you about diesel: Most diesel is "splash" mixed, IOW, if there is anything mixed in, it will be mixed when fuel is delivered to the station. Many diesel fuel pumps will be selling treated fuel just to help reduce water, algea, and bacteria problems that can occur year round, and to help their customers get to the colder east side of the Cascades in the winter.

"Winterized" diesel can mean anything from "we put an additive in there to seperate the water out" to "this fuel is guaranteed to not cloud until 0 degrees F". Gotta read the fine print. When in doubt, put your own additive in there. I prefer the additives that don't make water collect at the bottom of the tank, but pass through and burn away, specifically Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat (sp?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yopd, you better go back to school. diesel fuel dosent get mixed when its delivered to the station. treated fuel dosent help water at all,thats why you run a fuel water seperator-duh. the treatment is purely for potential bateria growth if the fuel sits too long. winterized fuel is centain #1 which has less parifin in it and wont gel up as quick as # 2 diesel will. the parifin in the fuel is for lubricating parts in the fuel pump. with out it you increase wear of the fuel pump.,

in washington you have a lenght and axel spacing to deal with depending on how much weight you want to haul up to a max of 105,500. out here u also dont see semis as high as you do back east. our bridges are lower than back east.

yopd- not all diesels have glow plugs. glow plugs are in ford diesels and some small cats v8 engines. i spent many years working on semis and never seen any 3306.3406 and 855 cid cummings with glow plugs. gwt your facts straight
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:30:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Jon:
Remember, if you see alot of Kenworths and Peterbilts, thats because Paccar (Pacific Carriage) has a factory in Seattle, and of course Kenworths are the best.



Plus paint by the Green River Killer.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:02:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nwwash:
yopd, you better go back to school. diesel fuel dosent get mixed when its delivered to the station. treated fuel dosent help water at all, thats why you run a fuel water seperator-duh.



Now there is a friendly way to try correct someone that not only drove and taught new drivers for 13 years, but never had an engine breakdown, and it wasn't purely because my bosses mechanics were top notch. Looking at your english writing skills, I think it's clear who needs to go back to school. Who is the one that is putting their hands and eyes on that engine every day, scheduling maintenance, and doing what I can to keep the rig rolling and economical? Me. I talked to the Cummins and Freightliner factory trained mechanics, they asked me questions, I asked them questions, and the truck kept running, even in -35 North Dakota winters. No, I don't know it all, but I know I got through that more than once, and when it's that cold, there is no such thing as luck in that truck, you can easily die in that weather, but the truck kept running.

What will happen to water in your fuel lines if it is below freezing? It could change from a liquid to a solid. Enough water, cold enough, will clog your fuel lines, possibly long before it gets to your fuel/water separator, if your vehicle is equipped with one. If the ice doesn't clog your fuel lines, it could still freeze and then you have small pieces of ice heading for your fuel/water separator, or filter. If there is enough water in your fuel/water separator because it hasn't been drained, or your vehicle doesn't have one, and it gets cold enough, then it too will freeze, and if ice crystals clog your fuel filter, you lose fuel flow, and engines won't run without fuel flowing. You can have liquid fuel in the tanks and lines, and no flow, from an ice clogged fuel filter. Fuel treatment is just as much for the prevention of problems from water and bacteria as it is for prevention of gelling fuel in the winter, or the product you use should be if you will be going to an area well below freezing.


the treatment is purely for potential bateria growth if the fuel sits too long. winterized fuel is centain #1 which has less parifin in it and wont gel up as quick as # 2 diesel will. the parifin in the fuel is for lubricating parts in the fuel pump. with out it you increase wear of the fuel pump.,


Paraffin is a part of diesel fuel that can cloud in cold weather. The paraffin particles begin to stick to each other and get larger as they harden, and may reach a size that will not pass through a fuel filter. In order to keep fuel flowing in cold weather, you must add a treatment that will alter it's properties somewhat to not only allow it to flow, but still be a useful part of the fuel, and many fuel treatments are petroleum products, so they do not harm the engine, and may even increase fuel lubricity. Bacteria is more of a concern in the summer, when temps are in a range that bacteria and algae enjoy and thrive in, but bacteria and algae can still form and be problems year round. Any treated fuel could be called "winterized", but there is a difference between diesel #1 and diesel #2, which I already mentioned: Kerosene.


yopd- not all diesels have glow plugs. glow plugs are in ford diesels and some small cats v8 engines. i spent many years working on semis and never seen any 3306.3406 and 855 cid cummings with glow plugs. gwt your facts straight


I was assuming that the entire discussion was not just about large commercial diesel engines. Diesel engines are a growing segment of the vehicles sold in north america, and was trying to give out some information that would be useful to a broader number of folks, not just those that know everything (one of the reasons I got out of trucking: You can never know enough, and there is no way to prove you know what you are talking about, don't try, it's useless, you're an idiot about the vehicle you've been driving for four years until some mechanic tells you that you're not). So, because you need clarification, he is right, you will not find glow plugs on large commercial diesel engines. These engines have very high compression and very high fuel pump pressures, and do not need the assistance of glow plugs to start, but you will find that glow plugs are very common on smaller engines in non commercial vehicles.

There. I hope I can live up to the example you've set for us all.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:16:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nwwash:
Finally, a topic I can post to without getting someone's panties in a buch, and I tell myself to do it later, and so many have jumped in already! My timing sucks! Coming off like that my panties are in a bunch


in washington you have a lenght and axel spacing to deal with depending on how much weight you want to haul up to a max of 105,500. out here u also dont see semis as high as you do back east. our bridges are lower than back east.



What the heck are you telling us? That on the east coast the trailers are over 14 feet tall? They (the east coast) are driving on roads 100 years old. Thus they have the shorter bridges.

I think I was in Kansas City and I missed an exit and the freeway ended. I was towing a 53'x14' trailer. At 65 MPH I saw a small bridge sign on the bridge I was about to go under read 13'6". I about shit my pants and locked up all 18 tires. When the smoke cleared I was stopped under the bridge. I stepped out and I cleared by about an 1 1/2" Then I did a u-turn and went under the other side that was posted 13'6".
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 4:45:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YOPD:
Finally, a topic I can post to without getting someone's panties in a buch, and I tell myself to do it later, and so many have jumped in already! My timing sucks! Coming off like that my panties are in a bunch



Thanks for fixing that for me!
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:32:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YOPD:


There. I hope I can live up to the example you've set for us all.






Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:18:53 PM EDT
If you want to see tandem dump trucks, come on up. They roll by here all day, sometimes four or five in a row.

I remember seeing triple logging trucks on the Weyerhauser roads around Coos Bay, Oregon. That was a lot of timber.
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