Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 5
Posted: 2/5/2006 12:26:05 PM EDT
Well I recently moved to Washington State and decided to go check out the "Public" gun show in Puyallup. When I got there bought two tickets for 14$. After buying my tickets and trying to enter the show I was told that not only could I not Buy or sell any firearms but I could not even bring my firearm into the show unless I wanted to pay an additional 44$ and join an ANTI-GUN RIGHTS group known as the WAC.
Now I fully understand and agree with private events being able to prevent people from bringing firearms on there "Private" property, but to prevent only people who do not pay 44$ only as a way of cashing in ridiculous.
I asked the people running the gates what is this 44$ used for, is it used to try and help legislate pro constitutional laws? Is it used to promote firearms awareness? Is it used to further firearms safety?. The answers to all of these were NO. It goes into the pockets of the WAC.
I also discovered that in order to become a member thereby bring in a lawful weapon into the "Public" gun show; I would be subjected to a "Background Check". Well the state of Washington is not yet of the belief that this is required to buy/sell/trade firearms at gunshots, nor is the Federal Government. Why is the Washington Anti-gun Criminals imposing on me restrictive anti-rules that even the liberal gun grabbing Washington legislature is not?
I have been to gun shows in several other states as well as smaller gun shows in Washington and have never heard of such a ludicrous rule as this.
Most large gun groups try to promote gun owners rights not try and take them away.
I personally did not enter the Gun show. I had intended on purchasing four handguns at this show, but I will either buy them through private parties or off the Internet now. I am not a criminal nor do I have any reason why I cannot own or carry firearms. The last two states I have lived in I have had a concealed weapons permit and have already applied and am sure that I will have a Washington permit in the next few weeks.
This is a matter of principal not about the money! I had four thousand dollars in my pocket and one handgun that I was looking to trade. I would not leave my handgun in my vehicle as the gate nazi suggested because I do not think that would be responsible.



Thanks for reading my rant.... just my .02 on the subject, as I believe in my right to free speech as much as I believe in my right to keep and bear arms.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:35:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spopretto:
Well I recently moved to Washington State and decided to go check out the "Public" gun show in Puyallup. When I got there bought two tickets for 14$. After buying my tickets and trying to enter the show I was told that not only could I not Buy or sell any firearms but I could not even bring my firearm into the show unless I wanted to pay an additional 44$ and join an ANTI-GUN RIGHTS group known as the WAC.
Now I fully understand and agree with private events being able to prevent people from bringing firearms on there "Private" property, but to prevent only people who do not pay 44$ only as a way of cashing in ridiculous.
I asked the people running the gates what is this 44$ used for, is it used to try and help legislate pro constitutional laws? Is it used to promote firearms awareness? Is it used to further firearms safety?. The answers to all of these were NO. It goes into the pockets of the WAC.
I also discovered that in order to become a member thereby bring in a lawful weapon into the "Public" gun show; I would be subjected to a "Background Check". Well the state of Washington is not yet of the belief that this is required to buy/sell/trade firearms at gunshots, nor is the Federal Government. Why is the Washington Anti-gun Criminals imposing on me restrictive anti-rules that even the liberal gun grabbing Washington legislature is not?
I have been to gun shows in several other states as well as smaller gun shows in Washington and have never heard of such a ludicrous rule as this.
Most large gun groups try to promote gun owners rights not try and take them away.
I personally did not enter the Gun show. I had intended on purchasing four handguns at this show, but I will either buy them through private parties or off the Internet now. I am not a criminal nor do I have any reason why I cannot own or carry firearms. The last two states I have lived in I have had a concealed weapons permit and have already applied and am sure that I will have a Washington permit in the next few weeks.
This is a matter of principal not about the money! I had four thousand dollars in my pocket and one handgun that I was looking to trade. I would not leave my handgun in my vehicle as the gate nazi suggested because I do not think that would be responsible.



Thanks for reading my rant.... just my .02 on the subject, as I believe in my right to free speech as much as I believe in my right to keep and bear arms.


Then you can go to one of the teeny tiny little gun shows spotting the state..
Washington Arms Collectors is a private organization, if you want to play, you play by their rules. Simple as that.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:39:01 PM EDT
Criminals? Hmmmmm, that makes a lot of us members criminals then. Are you sure?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:51:45 PM EDT
Move back to California, if you don't like it here.

WAC does a hell of a lot more than you seem to think for the rights of gun owners here. Flip back a few pages and look at who spoke before the thoroughly anti-gun State Committee in favor of any gun shows at all in this State-- you'll see the name "Joe Waldron--"

and he's the President of WAC !!

Go moan somewhere else. You're not impressing us. And you're really pissing some of us off.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:00:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 1:01:24 PM EDT by Cherry_45]
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:01:57 PM EDT
After having a few discharged firearms and a few other hurtles over the years they run a tighter ship now days to keep the doors open. I have personally witnessed discharged firearms at this show and luckily no one was maimed or killed. Lighten up dude if it were your show in this commie F**king state you would most likely run it the same way. Do I agree with it no. But I'm glad we still have the freedom to have the show.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:07:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 1:14:08 PM EDT by AssaultPossum]

Originally Posted By spopretto:
Well I recently moved to Washington State...

<snip>

Thanks for reading my rant.... just my .02 on the subject, as I believe in my right to free speech as much as I believe in my right to keep and bear arms.



Where did you come from? You should really make an effort to understand the playing field before getting all worked up. WA is tettering between old and new. The new is actively working to limit gun rights (and others). The old, which incs WAC, is spending all its time/resrouces putting out the numerous legislative fires set by the anit-gunners. In that vein WAC is doing all diligence to make sure they arent part of the problem. That is, the antis are looking for *any* excuse to further limit gun owner *rights*. For some time theyve been singing the gun show loop-hole song in hopes they can begin to shut down gun shows. The WAC does the BG check to preclude aguments brought by the antis -- a bizarre for criminals to aquire guns. In other words WAC is attempting to police its members and be above reproach. Its certainly an admirable goal but in the long run futile I think. The antis really arent interested in facts. Unless gun owners as a class get off their collective lazy rears and hold their reps accountable the siutation is only going to get worst. I dont see this happening any time soon as witnessed by the last election. Hopefully this has given you some insight as to why.

When I first moved to the state and applied for WAC membership I asked if the WAC was working w/ the legislature to get class III weapons legalized. While he didnt laugh the WAC official politely explained the siutation.

ETA: On carrying inside the show I understand your position and we'd all like to be treated like adults. The problem arises when some dont and its 1st grade all over again. That is, one person screws it up for everyone. With rights come repsonsibilites.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:09:08 PM EDT

W.A.C. are Criminals!!!!

What laws are they breaking?


The Washington Arms Collectors (WAC) is a membership organization, if you are not a member of that organization then you are not entitled to the rights of a member one of which is the right to buy, sell, or trade firearms at the club gatherings aka gunshows.

Being that you are new to Washington you may not be aware that gun shows are under attack in this state and a bill, SB 5343, has been presented in the legislature that if passed would result in gun shows being completely eliminated in this state.

With this bill recently failing to pass out of commitee the states largest antigun group, Washington Ceasefire, announced that they were to pay to come into the gun show, then buy an "easily convertible to full-auto assault weapon" to show how easy it is for felons and otherundesirables to acquire guns at gun shows.


I asked the people running the gates what is this 44$ used for, is it used to try and help legislate pro constitutional laws? Is it used to promote firearms awareness? Is it used to further firearms safety?




Firearms Safety
WAC assists with the following classes in conjunction with shows.

February 4 Home Firearm Safety
April 2/3 Boy Scout Rifle Merit Badge
May 14 Home Firearm Safety
July 9/10 Boy Scouts (not at show) Rifle Merit Badge (Onalaska, WA)
November 5-6 Refuse to Be a Victim Instructor Development Workshop
December 10 Home Firearm Safety
Classes are held at the Washington State Patrol Classroom just west of the blue gate.


MONROE
April 16 Home Firearms Safety
June 11 Refuse to Be a Victim (seminar only)
September 17


Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:19:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:
...
The WAC does the BG check to preclude aguments brought by the antis -- a bizarre for criminals to aquire guns. In other words WAC is attempting to police its members and be above reproach. ...



This was kept fairly quiet until a few years ago, in 2001, , when the July show was the NRAs National Gun Show and WA Ceasefire came to protest the lack of background checks done at gunshows. When it was dropped in Bruce Gryniewskis' lap, their executive director at that time, he looked like he'd just swallowed his own liver. Suprise is a wonderful advantage to have.

I signed up as a WAC member seven years ago and I have a membership number in the 49,000, the membership grows every single show because people can see that an organization such as WAC is a benefit to them.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:19:18 PM EDT
I agree with checking firearms at the door, no loaded weapons in the show, and all other safety measures. I also agree that a private club has the right to prevent firearms at there event. How do you suggest that paying 44$ and joining their "club" can assure that the people entering are not morons?
I have a problem when they advertise there show as "public" when it is clearly not.

If I did not belive in firearms or freespeech rights then I may move to California. I am not asking anyone to boycott the WAC, I am simply satating my opinion. I will not join and will be perfectly happy spending my money at the small shows around the state. If you chose to join more power to you! Have fun at their shows and I hope they do not force you to give up anymore of your rights to attend.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:25:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spopretto:
I agree with checking firearms at the door, no loaded weapons in the show, and all other safety measures. I also agree that a private club has the right to prevent firearms at there event. How do you suggest that paying 44$ and joining their "club" can assure that the people entering are not morons?
I have a problem when they advertise there show as "public" when it is clearly not.

If I did not belive in firearms or freespeech rights then I may move to California. I am not asking anyone to boycott the WAC, I am simply satating my opinion. I will not join and will be perfectly happy spending my money at the small shows around the state. If you chose to join more power to you! Have fun at their shows and I hope they do not force you to give up anymore of your rights to attend.



You give the same information to Washington State when you apply for a concealed weapons permit.
If you have a CWP then you don't have to pay for the background check, it has already been done for you.
If you have a CWP then you are exempt from the state weaiting period.
Where are you from?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:26:32 PM EDT
P.S.
Paragraphs.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:31:44 PM EDT
They keep the morons out by asking them for the $44 they won't cough up! See? It worked!
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:32:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 1:38:09 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By spopretto:
I agree with checking firearms at the door, no loaded weapons in the show, and all other safety measures. I also agree that a private club has the right to prevent firearms at there event. How do you suggest that paying 44$ and joining their "club" can assure that the people entering are not morons?
I have a problem when they advertise there show as "public" when it is clearly not.

If I did not belive in firearms or freespeech rights then I may move to California. I am not asking anyone to boycott the WAC, I am simply satating my opinion. I will not join and will be perfectly happy spending my money at the small shows around the state. If you chose to join more power to you! Have fun at their shows and I hope they do not force you to give up anymore of your rights to attend.




Way to back track there.

First according to you WAC is criminal but now you want them to assure that anyone who pays for and qualifies for membership isn't a moron?

BTW- Membership is $30 a year +$12 for a background check if you can't supply one of the following:
current dealer license.
current C&R license.
current Law Enforcement ID
current Military ID
current CPL (Concealed Pistol License)

If you supply one of those there is no background check fee.

Your gate entrance fee would be credited towards the $30 membership fee (which is good for a year)


BTW you still haven't addressed your initial BS statement.

Originally Posted By spopretto:
W.A.C. are Criminals!!!!



How so? What laws are they breaking?

Also, you don't have free speech rights on this board. We post at the pleasure of the board owners.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:35:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 1:35:52 PM EDT by KA3B]

Originally Posted By spopretto:
Well I recently moved to Washington State and decided to go check out the "Public" gun show in Puyallup. When I got there bought two tickets for 14$. After buying my tickets and trying to enter the show I was told that not only could I not Buy or sell any firearms but I could not even bring my firearm into the show unless I wanted to pay an additional 44$ and join an ANTI-GUN RIGHTS group known as the WAC.



I take it you didn't bother to do any research or ask any of us before you went to the gun show.
There are plenty of vendors there at the show that are in Washington State and will sell to you from their store or else sell to you via your FFL.



Now I fully understand and agree with private events being able to prevent people from bringing firearms on there "Private" property, but to prevent only people who do not pay 44$ only as a way of cashing in ridiculous.



So then you DON'T have a problem with the way the gun show is run.



I asked the people running the gates what is this 44$ used for, is it used to try and help legislate pro constitutional laws? Is it used to promote firearms awareness? Is it used to further firearms safety?. The answers to all of these were NO. It goes into the pockets of the WAC.



Fuck, he found out that the "WAC" is getting Bill Gates filthy rich on charging enterance fees and club membership fees.
Damn, you're right, the fairgrounds are free for the WAC to use and the Puyallap off duty police officers that are there work for free.



I also discovered that in order to become a member thereby bring in a lawful weapon into the "Public" gun show; I would be subjected to a "Background Check". Well the state of Washington is not yet of the belief that this is required to buy/sell/trade firearms at gunshots, nor is the Federal Government. Why is the Washington Anti-gun Criminals imposing on me restrictive anti-rules that even the liberal gun grabbing Washington legislature is not?



Like I said, you get a CWP and your point is moot.



I have been to gun shows in several other states as well as smaller gun shows in Washington and have never heard of such a ludicrous rule as this.



So have we all.



Most large gun groups try to promote gun owners rights not try and take them away.
I personally did not enter the Gun show. I had intended on purchasing four handguns at this show, but I will either buy them through private parties or off the Internet now. I am not a criminal nor do I have any reason why I cannot own or carry firearms. The last two states I have lived in I have had a concealed weapons permit and have already applied and am sure that I will have a Washington permit in the next few weeks.



It's painfully obvious that you didn't do your homework.
You would have not been able to take possesion of any pistols at the show because you would have been subject to the Washington State waiting period.

And no one would have dealt with you because you are not a member.



This is a matter of principal not about the money! I had four thousand dollars in my pocket and one handgun that I was looking to trade. I would not leave my handgun in my vehicle as the gate nazi suggested because I do not think that would be responsible.

Thanks for reading my rant.... just my .02 on the subject, as I believe in my right to free speech as much as I believe in my right to keep and bear arms.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:40:52 PM EDT
I understand that gun shows are under attack in every state including washington, however I dont think that caving into the antigun movement is a way to protect your rights. If in fact that is the reason what is the higher purpose for the additional 30$ membership fee?
I also do not have a problem doing a background check prior to purchasing a firearm, I do have a problem with a group advertising a gun show as being "public" when it is in fact private. I could not bring a firearm into the show without joining the club. What if I was only selling and not buying? Perhaps I only wanted my firearm worked on.
I belive that if a private group has a "public" function where firearms are clearly welcome then they (in my opinion) do not have the right to selectivly discriminate against people lawfully carrying firearms.


In response to your question I moved here from Oregon.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:44:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spopretto:
unless I wanted to pay an additional 44$ and join an ANTI-GUN RIGHTS group known as the WAC.



First off, I have no idea where you got the figure "an additional $44 dollars" from. Membership in the WAC is $30 per year, with an additional $12 background check fee IF you don't have a WA CPL. If you paid $7 at the gate to get in, they credit that back towards your membership. So, if you have a WA CPL, paid $7 at the gate, you'd only need to pay an additional $23 to become a member.

Membership has its privledges, to quote American Express. At $7 per Puyallup show and $6 per Monroe show, and 46 show days per year, you could save a lot of money by joining. Attend 5 times during the year, and you have broken even. And where does your $30 per year go? The Gun News magazine, membership costs, lobbying costs as well as a BUILDING FUND so that the organization can someday buy and OWN the building it hosts the shows in.

As for WAC being anti-gun, WTF planet are you from? The WAC is one of the strongest pro-RKBA and pro-gun rights organizations in the state. And since the show is not on WAC owned property, they have to abide some conditions put on them by the Puyallup Fairgrounds.


You said yourself you are new to this state, and new to AR15.com (registered 8 days ago.) Maybe next time you lurk a little longer and do some research before going off.

Calling 1Gunrunner, we need a wet cleanup in aisle five!

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:48:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 1:54:28 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By spopretto:
I understand that gun shows are under attack in every state including washington, however I dont think that caving into the antigun movement is a way to protect your rights. If in fact that is the reason what is the higher purpose for the additional 30$ membership fee?
I also do not have a problem doing a background check prior to purchasing a firearm, I do have a problem with a group advertising a gun show as being "public" when it is in fact private. I could not bring a firearm into the show without joining the club. What if I was only selling and not buying? Perhaps I only wanted my firearm worked on.
I belive that if a private group has a "public" function where firearms are clearly welcome then they (in my opinion) do not have the right to selectivly discriminate against people lawfully carrying firearms.


In response to your question I moved here from Oregon.



Stop backtracking.

First WAC are criminals, now you're going to weasel about it being a public show?

Guess what? My gun range is open to the public too, but the paying members have priveldges that the public who pay for every trip to the range do not have. The same goes for many other places.

Maybe if Oregon had an orginization such as WAC Measure 5 wouldn't have passed there and we here in WA wouldn't have to have that gun show law thrown at us every legislative session as alledged "proof" that anti gun show laws should be passed because they don't hurt gun shows.

BTW Scollins, you need a nicer avatar
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:49:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 1:52:43 PM EDT by KA3B]

Originally Posted By spopretto:
I understand that gun shows are under attack in every state including washington, however I dont think that caving into the antigun movement is a way to protect your rights. If in fact that is the reason what is the higher purpose for the additional 30$ membership fee?



Every gun club I have ever belong to has a membership fee.
It helps pay for EXPENSES, in the WAC's case the rental of the fairgrounds, maintenance workers, off-duty police security, the lights, water, toilets....



I also do not have a problem doing a background check prior to purchasing a firearm, I do have a problem with a group advertising a gun show as being "public" when it is in fact private.



It was public. You COULD have gotten in, right?



I could not bring a firearm into the show without joining the club. What if I was only selling and not buying? Perhaps I only wanted my firearm worked on.



How many times do I have to post it, do your research and read the RULES of the WAC.

The Washington Arms Collectors (WAC) is a membership organization affiliated with the National Rifle Association. WAC puts on one of the largest gun shows in Washington State. You can and SHOULD become a member of WAC. Only members can buy and sell guns at our shows. Look through this site to find out all the ways that a WAC membership can be of value to you. WAC director positions are occupied by some of the most powerful people in the gun rights arena. WAC works to preserve your 2nd amendment rights. The WAC is based on the principles set forth by the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution which states that every free citizen has the right to keep and bear arms. WAC members VOTE!!

www.washingtonarmscollectors.org/


I belive that if a private group has a "public" function where firearms are clearly welcome then they (in my opinion) do not have the right to selectivly discriminate against people lawfully carrying firearms.






In response to your question I moved here from Oregon.


And what are Ory-gones rules for buying firearms?

OREGON GUN SHOW CHECKS
Are background checks required at gun shows? Yes

State law requires people buying guns at gun shows to undergo the same Brady criminal background check as is required for sales that occur at federally-licensed gun stores. The law was enacted as a citizen ballot initiative in 2000 following the Columbine school massacre.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=or#gunshows

If you were a member of the WAC you could have bought or sold PRIVATE PARTY without going through a background check.

Good day to you Sir.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:35:33 PM EDT

How do you suggest that paying 44$ and joining their "club" can assure that the people entering are not morons?



That is what the backround check is for.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:04:52 PM EDT
Welcome to Washington Homie Town forum spopretto, good to have you aboard.

Pardon me if i generalize and offend a fellow member that mave have posted above, but or the most part the majority of the members here have absolutely no clue what freedom is or what it is about, all they know is puke out the communist fascist drivel that have been indoctrinated with all their lives, never stopping to question if they are more free today than yesteray, is ? whatever they are doing for the cause of freedom working for the better or the worse ?

The answer is quite clear, they continue the same failed action expecting a different result if only they stay with long enough it will work, or so they think.

We may not agree on the whole but I am glad to have another disinter here.

Unforenately WAC is a lost cause, they banned books from the book sellers table because they were considered anti-semetic by WAC leadership, the poor dumb bastards think being a NAZI protects freedom, poor dumb bastards.

I still miss having Randy at the shows.

WAC and the gun grabbing NRA can FOAD !


"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."



Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:26:15 PM EDT
I assume that you walked by the 4'x4' signs in front of the ticket office that say "ONLY CURRENT MEMBERS MAY CONDUCT FIREARMS TRANSACTIONS" and "NO LOADED FIREARMS OR MAGAZINES".

I don't like the rules, but I play by them. So what's your beef?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:08:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

WAC and the gun grabbing NRA can FOAD !




I take it then neither you nor your cronies will be attending anymore WAC gun shows then.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:19:25 PM EDT
Please, tell me and the majority of the members here who don't have a clue what freedom is what is freedom and what you are doing for the cause of freedom.
I am curious and want to learn where you stand and what you are doing.
What are you doing to change tomorrow, what impact it will have and when it will happen.


Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
Welcome to Washington Homie Town forum spopretto, good to have you aboard.

Pardon me if i generalize and offend a fellow member that mave have posted above, but or the most part the majority of the members here have absolutely no clue what freedom is or what it is about, all they know is puke out the communist fascist drivel that have been indoctrinated with all their lives, never stopping to question if they are more free today than yesteray, is ? whatever they are doing for the cause of freedom working for the better or the worse ?

The answer is quite clear, they continue the same failed action expecting a different result if only they stay with long enough it will work, or so they think.

We may not agree on the whole but I am glad to have another disinter here.

Unforenately WAC is a lost cause, they banned books from the book sellers table because they were considered anti-semetic by WAC leadership, the poor dumb bastards think being a NAZI protects freedom, poor dumb bastards.

I still miss having Randy at the shows.

WAC and the gun grabbing NRA can FOAD !


"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."




Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:31:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 4:34:16 PM EDT by CavVet]

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

WAC and the gun grabbing NRA can FOAD !




I take it then neither you nor your cronies will be attending anymore WAC gun shows then.






Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:59:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:01:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OdT:
Easy guys, there's a good game on.



I thought it was over, but they turned it around.






Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:02:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:05:58 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:17:42 PM EDT
I should have bet the ACOG....
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:25:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
I should have bet the ACOG....



Looks like you would be on your way to losing it...
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:42:19 PM EDT
Well if ya wanna get technical WAC is acting criminal in its regard to freedom of speech at the Monroe show. The Puyallup fairgrounds is private property or at least a private/public thingy as I recall. So they can make whatever rules they want, and enforce them arbitrarily as they feel like it. Kinda like last summer at the June or July show, they threw some guy out cause he didnt see the problem with his 5 year old shooting off a cap gun outside the show on the fairgrounds. My wife and kids saw the whole thing, I just saw the Puyallup police escorting the family out . Or maybe like when Don Mancini threatened to permanently eject a long long long time vendor who had been overheard speaking ill of Don's paycheck from WAC.

Back to my point....by placing restrictions on what can be said or displayed/printed matter sold/given away by vendors or other members or the paying public by either , the WAC board and organisation is potentionally opening themselves to a huge lawsuit as I understand it, because the Evergreen state fair is publically owned. Barring freedom of expression or speech on public property is unconstituional and thereby criminal although not under a specific statute that I know of. Just get yourself a "WAC is ANTI 1st Amendment" shirt an see where it takes you :)
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:50:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NWRed:
Back to my point....by placing restrictions on what can be said or displayed/printed matter sold/given away by vendors or other members or the paying public by either , the WAC board and organisation is potentionally opening themselves to a huge lawsuit as I understand it, because the Evergreen state fair is publically owned. Barring freedom of expression or speech on public property is unconstituional and thereby criminal although not under a specific statute that I know of. Just get yourself a "WAC is ANTI 1st Amendment" shirt an see where it takes you :)



Its not the .gov regulating what can or cant be done, its the club. Your employer can tell you what you cant say, the .gov cant. ARFCOM can tell you what you can and cant say, the .gov cant.

WAC is a private club open to the public. They have the right to regualte what they sell, etc. If the board as a whole decided to start being pro (insert cause here), all one can do is drop their membership.



Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:02:12 PM EDT


Its not the .gov regulating what can or cant be done, its the club. Your employer can tell you what you cant say, the .gov cant. ARFCOM can tell you what you can and cant say, the .gov cant.

WAC is a private club open to the public. They have the right to regualte what they sell, etc. If the board as a whole decided to start being pro (insert cause here), all one can do is drop their membership.




The location is the key to my post, they can do whatever they want at Puyallup its private property, at Monroe its public property, albeit rented to WAC, a private club, its still public owned, same as any other public owned location in the US. They can have some rules on public grounds, safety issues for example, but discrimination and other unconstitutional acts would be forbidden.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:13:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NWRed:
The location is the key to my post, they can do whatever they want at Puyallup its private property, at Monroe its public property, albeit rented to WAC, a private club, its still public owned, same as any other public owned location in the US. They can have some rules on public grounds, safety issues for example, but discrimination and other unconstitutional acts would be forbidden.



I would think the Sierra Club could hold an event there and post "No Guns". I wouldnt think it would hold any legal weight, but for their club events they can make up any rules they want for their club members, regardless of location.



Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:14:54 PM EDT
And they miss the point again.

Individuals have unalienable God given rights, the law exists to protect what already existed, the law is for protection of rights not the infringement.

Rights,freedom is describe by the rights of the individuals around you, Don can make whatever rules he wants in His own home but he can not murder someone just because it is his home, the club can make all kinds of rules as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.

Not only is it insane to argue how WAC has a right to infringe on rights it is doubly insane to encourage it and claim they have that right when they do not.


No is safe when freedom fails
the best men rot in filthy jails
those who cry appease appease
are hanged by those they try to please

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:17:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:24:07 PM EDT


So a club, not ust WAC but any club, has no authority to make rules for its membership??




Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:25:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:26:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
And they miss the point again.

Individuals have unalienable God given rights, the law exists to protect what already existed, the law is for protection of rights not the infringement.

Rights,freedom is describe by the rights of the individuals around you, Don can make whatever rules he wants in His own home but he can not murder someone just because it is his home, the club can make all kinds of rules as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.

Not only is it insane to argue how WAC has a right to infringe on rights it is doubly insane to encourage it and claim they have that right when they do not.


No is safe when freedom fails
the best men rot in filthy jails
those who cry appease appease
are hanged by those they try to please




Bullshit.
Bullshit.
Bullshit.

Do I have the right to throw you out of my house for speaking in a manner that I do not like?

If I lived in public house AKA the projects would I still have that right?

The answer to both is yes and in neither case will your rights have been infringed.

Equating murder to speech is ridiculous.



Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:30:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

I would think the Sierra Club could hold an event there and post "No Guns". I wouldnt think it would hold any legal weight, but for their club events they can make up any rules they want for their club members, regardless of location.




Either its legal or it isnt on public property, there is no grey area with regard to what can be done.
I agree with the Sierra Club analogy, and if you were say discovered legally carrying a firearm and were ejected under the threat of arrest for trespassing after being told by the renter to leave, you would potentially have a lawsuit for being unlawfully removed from public property for exercising yoru right. Be the same if they posted a "No White Guys Allowed" sign outside. Wouldnt be legal.
But make a 3x3 target of an anti gun political APPOINTEE and your facing censorship or ejection from WAC, which as the actual case went, it was clearly marked as "Urinal Target", for placing in urinals. Didnt matter to WAC though, they didnt like the idea of policitcians on target looking items and banned them.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:35:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NWRed:
But make a 3x3 target of an anti gun political APPOINTEE and your facing censorship or ejection from WAC, which as the actual case went, it was clearly marked as "Urinal Target", for placing in urinals. Didnt matter to WAC though, they didnt like the idea of policitcians on target looking items and banned them.



I think most ranges have rules regarding poitical targets.

Would the Sierra Club be within its rights to not allow you to sell Pro Bush propaganda during their events??



Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:36:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 6:39:17 PM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By Gibby:
www.strangepersons.com/images/content/8531.jpg



Tell us gibby, Why post this without putting your .02 cents in?...


Me, I say it is a private club, and they should be able to make their rules...

And I thing spopretto is full of shit.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:37:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spopretto:
I asked the people running the gates what is this 44$ used for, is it used to try and help legislate pro constitutional laws? Is it used to promote firearms awareness? Is it used to further firearms safety?. The answers to all of these were NO. It goes into the pockets of the WAC.



You have to be kidding, right?

Of all the zillions of shows I've seen across this world, this is about the most unique 800lb Gorilla out there. Most shows are for profit, but this is a Club show and has paid lobbyists as well as education programs all throughout the year.

You need to take a step back, clear your antagonism and try again.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:41:15 PM EDT
Who owns the backbone of the internet?
.gov.
So therefore I should be able to call anyone any names I want to, and post any pictures of anything I want to.

By your logic of course.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:42:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OdT:
Can't miss what we haven't heard Strat.

You have the floor, so convince us. What should turn WACs mempbership against itself?



Life and property existed before the law, the law was created to protect life and property, indiviudals are responsible for their own security but when you have a society it is necessary to create laws to protect Life Liberty and property, WAC exists as a collective, to protect the living breathing souls that make up the membership of WAC.

What has happened to WAC is the same as what has happened to government, they lost sight of the reason they were created in the first place, the organization is created to protect the members not the organization, government exists to protect the people not the government from the people.

WAC should belong to it's members, not where WAC owns it members.

The majority of this thread is trying to rationalize why WAC should be able to abuse it's membership all it wants, that is insane !

WAC has run the Monroe show into the ground, venders can not even make table rent anymore and have quit coming, turning Puyllup into the only show in town, a monopoly where market forces do not exist and is fascism in the true sense of the word.

The first amendment infringement is bad but they don't stop there they continue right on down the line abusing every protected right there is in one form or another.

WAC is trying to survive by appeasing the tyrant, they have lost the justification of their exsistance.

The Bill of rights was put in the proper order, when the first one ends the second begins, when they attack the first amendment they make the second inevitable.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:49:01 PM EDT

The Bill of rights was put in the proper order, when the first one ends the second begins, when they attack the first amendment they make the second inevitable.


So, when do we start shooting everybody?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:49:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Do I have the right to throw you out of my house for speaking in a manner that I do not like?

If I lived in public house AKA the projects would I still have that right?

The answer to both is yes and in neither case will your rights have been infringed.

Equating murder to speech is ridiculous.



Yes Phil you have the right to eject the trespasser, you have to kill the trespasser if it is there to do you harm, but you do not have the right to kill a guest just becuase he said something you do not like, yes you can throw the trespasser out of your home but you can't murder him.

The people in a WAC show have a right to be there unless they trespass on the rights of another.
To argue that WAC has a right to trespass upon the individual right of a living breathing soul is insane, the created is tyrannizing it's Creator.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:51:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By Gibby:
www.strangepersons.com/images/content/8531.jpg



Tell us gibby, Why post this without putting your .02 cents in?...


Me, I say it is a private club, and they should be able to make their rules...

And I thing spopretto is full of shit.



I won't pretend that I'm smart by using big words. I'm a WAC member and I have no problems with the club or how they run it. It's their party, it's their rules.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:53:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

The majority of this thread is trying to rationalize why WAC should be able to abuse it's membership all it wants, that is insane !

WAC has run the Monroe show into the ground, venders can not even make table rent anymore and have quit coming, turning Puyllup into the only show in town, a monopoly where market forces do not exist and is fascism in the true sense of the word.




Who is being abused by the WAC and how?
The problem with the Monroe show is that it's too close to Puyallap both in terms of distance and time.
WAC should be holding shows in Mt Vernon, Puyallap and Vancouver on the west side, and at least Spokane on the east side.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:55:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gibby:

I won't pretend that I'm smart by using big words. I'm a WAC member and I have no problems with the club or how they run it. It's their party, it's their rules.



Not a prob, just trying to figure out how your Pic was related to the topic...I was trying to figure out who it is ment at....
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 5
Top Top