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Posted: 1/31/2006 9:35:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 4:15:34 PM EDT by MountedMedic]
I beleive that I am having Short Stroking problems on my Bushmaster Dissipator. The only thing that has been added is the MagPul M93 stock on it for a year, and an EOtech. Went shooting a month ago to sight in my new Eotech and had the first problem with the gun not picking up another round following a shot. I figured it may be the new magazines that I had bought, so I came home inspected and cleaned everything. Today was the first time I shot it since, tried 3 different magazines, same ammo from before, and the problem continued. Tired the same mags and ammo in another AR that had the same configuration and MagPul, with no problems. Now im thinking WTF?

I think it may be the gas system, but dont know what to do or how to fix it. What would cause this to happen out of the blue? I'm going shooting on Sunday to the Gig Harbor Sportsmans Club. Is there anything I can try to fix before then , so I can test fire the gun and eliminate some possibilities? Anyone want to meet me at the GHSC Sunday to shoot? (I'll watch you shoot, if I cant fix this problem )


Thanks in Advance!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:53:41 PM EDT
format the hard drive and reinstall xp
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:53:44 PM EDT
First off, try the troubleshooting checklist.

If the rifle is short stroking it could be many things. I would start with a complete inspection of every moving part. Ammunition could also be suspect.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:19:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 10:19:50 PM EDT by MountedMedic]
Luckily no computer problems or no richochets. Hope the finger is doing good. A clean sweap would be faster and easier.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:02:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 12:08:40 AM EDT by Matt45]
A bit of advice from the font of knowledge known as Tweak-

Check your carrier key and gas tube for a spent primer that traveled...

From my personal knowledge base- Check to see if there's anything binding in the buffer tube. Also check the spring itself, and the buffer for any burrs. Check to see if the lip is aligned with the lower (Where it screws in) as well as the hright position of the buffer dentent. Make saure nothing is mashing together there(Shiny spots).


Past that- run a 17" mop (Pipe Cleaner) saturated with Hoppe's #9 down the gas tube, then run several dry ones.

(Another helpful hint, is that I have used blanks to check function...works pretty good as long as your FH/muzzle device supports mounting a blank firing adapter (BFA).


ETA- Just re-read your origional post- Try tightenting your Mag release up a turn or two. Push in hard on the release from the right side, grasp the arm on the left when it comes out, turn clockwise 1 full revolution. Check function, if that ain't it, repeat. If that still ain't it, put it back the way it was and continue to trace the origional symptoms.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:08:51 AM EDT
If you are in my neck of the woods, bring it over, we will tear it down and inspect everything if need be...Then test it in my backyard. I have all the tools you would need, and If anything more was needed in a hurry, bunny is about 20 mins away.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:12:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tumbleweed:
First off, try the troubleshooting checklist.

If the rifle is short stroking it could be many things. I would start with a complete inspection of every moving part. Ammunition could also be suspect.




Daaay-um! I've never seen that list....Tweak continues to impress me...just wish he were here to flip him some shit.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:19:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 12:19:59 AM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By Matt45:
Daaay-um! I've never seen that list....Tweak continues to impress me...just wish he were here to flip him some shit.





Originally Posted By 9Millie:
I have tweak's address for those that want it. Post here and I will send out the addy via IM. There is no restriction on letters. There are restrictions on photos, magazines and books, content and amount he is allowed to have.



There is always a way to mess with Tweak!


Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:44:25 AM EDT
I ran into this problem as well as my brother. We both had purchased CMT Carriers and the Carrier Key was not staked properly, check the screws on the carrier key, if you can turn them with your hand, there is your problem.

Here is the thread that includes my carrier by tweak
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:48:47 AM EDT
I haven't had my four cups of coffee yet, so bear with me:

To expand on Matt45's gas system diagnosis, the gas inlet (not the correct term, but I'm under-caffeinated) on the bolt carrier may not be tightly seated to the carrier thus letting gas escape and the carrier can't get the rearward velocity needed to strip a round out of the mag. I don't know how many rounds you've put through the gun prior to having problems, but if the problem came up "all of a sudden," my guess is the allen bolts are not properly staked and they worked loose. The bolts also have to be of the proper type, meaning they have to have the "serrations" along the outer circumfrence of the head so that when you stake from the key INWARD, there is something for the staking to grab hold of.

I hope this all made sense seein' how I'm still half asleep.

I'm in Lacey and have a moderate amount of AR tools if you need.


HTH

Trey
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:50:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twoducetrey:
the gas inlet (not the correct term, but I'm under-caffeinated)



"Carrier Key"
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:51:56 AM EDT
Thanks

Trey
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:54:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RyJones:
format the hard drive and reinstall xp



Ry,

&

Trey
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 8:24:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By Matt45:
Daaay-um! I've never seen that list....Tweak continues to impress me...just wish he were here to flip him some shit.





Originally Posted By 9Millie:
I have tweak's address for those that want it. Post here and I will send out the addy via IM. There is no restriction on letters. There are restrictions on photos, magazines and books, content and amount he is allowed to have.



There is always a way to mess with Tweak!





Now THAT is Evil.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 9:09:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 9:11:54 AM EDT by 9Millie]

Daaay-um! I've never seen that list....Tweak continues to impress me...just wish he were here to flip him some shit.


Okay...You asked for it...<flipping S**t> In tweak's stead. PS..I was thinking more the buffer / spring or the feed ramps but I'm way amature.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:26:02 AM EDT
What kind of ammo are you using? My Bushmaster doesn't like Wolf ammo but shoots everything else just fine. Could be an ammo problem or as others have noted it could also be a problem with the bolt carrier key. I wouldn't think it would be a buffer problem if it was working fine before.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:31:50 PM EDT
I just got home from work, now im on a mission to get this thing running.

I might have to take you guys up on your offers of helping me. Where are you guys located?

Im in Federal Way. I'll buy someone dinner if they can help me get this thing going. (I know from other posts, that offering drinks would bankrupt me!)
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:45:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MountedMedic:
I just got home from work, now im on a mission to get this thing running.

I might have to take you guys up on your offers of helping me. Where are you guys located?

Im in Federal Way. I'll buy someone dinner if they can help me get this thing going. (I know from other posts, that offering drinks would bankrupt me!)



If you can spin the carrier key screws with your fingers.....you've found your problem.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:47:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 3:02:35 PM EDT by MountedMedic]
Going down the check list as we speak. I bought this rifle from BM complete, I didnt put it together myself.

I put gun cleaner on a long pipe cleaner. Some of the cleaner is oozing out of the area where the gas tube is inserted into the gas block. Could this be my issue?

The front allen bolt on the bolt carrier was loose and the tube like piece it holds down could be wiggled by hand. Tightened allens. Should I lock tite them?


Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:58:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 2:58:52 PM EDT by PCR-00]

Originally Posted By MountedMedic:
Going down the check list as we speak.

I put gun cleaner on a long pipe cleaner. Some of the cleaner is oozing out of the area where the gas tube is inserted into the gas block. Could this be my issue?

The front allen bolt on the bolt carrier was loose and the tube like piece it holds down could be wiggled by hand. Tightened allens. Should I lock tite them?





See this: Do NOT stake your carriers this way

Your carrier key is not staked correctly and causing your short strokes
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:10:15 PM EDT
The carrier is/ was staked from the factory. But the allen heads were still loose. Do you think this could be the problem? If the gas tube on the carrier didnt line up, then the bolt might not be propelled back far enough, and another round couldnt be picked up?
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:19:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MountedMedic:
The carrier is/ was staked from the factory. But the allen heads were still loose. Do you think this could be the problem? If the gas tube on the carrier didnt line up, then the bolt might not be propelled back far enough, and another round couldnt be picked up?



If you look at the pictures in the above mentioned thread, you will see that some factories will stake from the top which DOES NOT WORK. Stake at an angle or from the side as the pictures show. Gas is escaping the seam between the key and the carrier and not pushing the carrier back hard enough.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:20:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 3:21:39 PM EDT by BIGDUKESIX]
What kind of ammo have You been running throught it?
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:32:40 PM EDT
PCR I think you helped me nail the problem. It was staked from the sides, not the top. However it was pretty loose. Im sure that is where I was loosing the gas. PCR are you in Tacoma?

I am using military reloads from James, I got them at the gun show. I was using wolf before for a short time, before I was told they arent that good to be shooting.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:36:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 3:37:06 PM EDT by PCR-00]

Originally Posted By MountedMedic:
PCR I think you helped me nail the problem. It was staked from the sides, not the top. However it was pretty loose. Im sure that is where I was loosing the gas. PCR are you in Tacoma?

I am using military reloads from James, I got them at the gun show. I was using wolf before for a short time, before I was told they arent that good to be shooting.



Sounds like it wasn't staked good enough and the screws came loose, they should be good and tight, and the sides of the carrier key should be pinching the screws TIGHT.

Yes, I am in Tacoma, but everything I know, I learned from Tweak, and I didn't pay attention very well.

ETA: The carriers shown in Tweaks thread above are mine, this is how I know about this problem.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:11:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 4:14:33 PM EDT by MountedMedic]
Thanks for helping me trouble shoot this problem. I owe you. Sounds like you paid attention to TWEAK, he must be a good mentor or else you wouldnt be able to diagnose the problem.

Is Magoos every Thursday?

Do I need to restake the carrier, or can I lock tite them in?

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:12:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 4:14:17 PM EDT by MountedMedic]
Thanks to Everyone for your help. I think my rifle is back in action!
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:15:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MountedMedic:
Thanks for helping me trouble shoot this problem. I owe you. Sounds like you paid attention to TWEAK, he must be a good mentor or else you wouldnt be able to diagnose the problem.

Is Magoos every Thursday?

Do I need to restake the carrier, or can I lock tite them in?




Re Stake them as shown in Tweak's thread.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 9:26:35 PM EDT
I'd send the bolt carrier back to Bushmaster and have them fix it. After all it was their mistake. At least it holds them accountable. I also have to be fair by saying that Bushmaster has excellent customer service and they will fix the problem.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:32:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MountedMedic:
PCR I think you helped me nail the problem. It was staked from the sides, not the top. However it was pretty loose. Im sure that is where I was loosing the gas. PCR are you in Tacoma?

I am using military reloads from James, I got them at the gun show. I was using wolf before for a short time, before I was told they arent that good to be shooting.





Wolf is fine to shoot, as long as it functions in your gun. Personally I won't keep a rifle that won't function with wolf. I'm at 6000+ through my Bushy with 2 FTEs. Both occured during bumpfiring.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:28:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kooter:

Originally Posted By MountedMedic:
PCR I think you helped me nail the problem. It was staked from the sides, not the top. However it was pretty loose. Im sure that is where I was loosing the gas. PCR are you in Tacoma?

I am using military reloads from James, I got them at the gun show. I was using wolf before for a short time, before I was told they arent that good to be shooting.





Wolf is fine to shoot, as long as it functions in your gun. Personally I won't keep a rifle that won't function with wolf. I'm at 6000+ through my Bushy with 2 FTEs. Both occured during bumpfiring.



Any idea if the extractor on the AR is tempered to withstand the higher wear of engaging the rim of steel cased ammo? Have you noticed the groove wearing down or the lip rounding off?
Granted, the extractor is pretty easy to replace so It's probably no big deal either way.

Trey

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:18:21 AM EDT
I shot less than 500 rounds of Wolf through the gun, without problems or extractor wear. I was told its not the best thing in the world for the gun and also makes clean up a bit longer. I just bought a different type of ammo once than ran out.

I plan on giving BM a call to see what they can/ will do, will post an update.
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